So called dieselpunk

[Griffin]

I've been wondering, what is the difference between dieselpunk and steampunk? Is it merely time period (victorian-1920's vs. 1930's-1940's) or is it more with the technology. My aesthetic seems to be more after the victorian era but in my mind, it still utilizes the whole steam idea instead of combustion fuel.

So this raises the question: Is steampunk set in victorian times or is it more an anachronistic time period where steam is utilized?

[Atterton]

I would say it is about the time period. The fuel is just a secondary thing.

[ClockWork_Panda]

traditionally steampunk is set in the Victorian era, but can also be set anachronistically. dieselpunk isnt very different from steam punk as far as I am personally concerned just a different fuel type. I generally think of dieselpunk as the grim N dark version of steampunk. not to say that steampunk itself cannot be grimNdark (see Unhallowed metropolis)

[Lily]

I also think it's about the look. To me steampunk is more brass and filigree while diesel punk is more silver/steel and art deco.

Steampunk - airships and zeppelins
Diesel punk - early fighter planes and coal trains

This is of course simply opinion and the list could go on. While they're are very similar in many ways, to me they have a slightly different feel.

[H. MacHinery]

I agree with the details of the look, and dieselpunk is more about the internal combustion engine - the growing prevalence of the motor car, the advent of fixed-wing aircraft, etc.

[Klynt Mahryd]

Yeah, details and look. Stuff like The Rocketeer, Sky Captain, Crimson Skies, Batman: The Animated Series. Pulp adventures and serials. Art deco, towering skyscrapers with floodlights all around them. Radio and newsreels. Big band jazz music. Evil fascist villians with advanced technologies. Huge fleets of airplane, both bi-, mono- and tri-. Bomber nose-art. Pin-ups. Lots and lots more.



This poster for The Rocketeer just screams out everything dieselpunk for me.

Speaking of The Rocketeer, I haven't seen that movie in years. It used to be on the Disney Channel all the time in the early 90s and I used to watch it every single time. Anyone else remember?

[ClockWork_Panda]

ah the rocketeer, i loved that movie , I saw it recently on Ondemand. but the lines between diesel and steam punk blur sometimes last exile being a prime example.

[Hikaro Takayama]

Yeah, I loved the Rocketeer, as well as Sky Captain.... Matter of fact, I may buy The Rocketeer this weekend.

Also, going in with the dieselpunk stuff would be Wolfensteain 3D... The first 3d FPS EVER, and the first game I did serious modding on.... Ahh, the memories.... The reason Wolfenstein 3D would be dieselpunk is that it had the whole "Evil Nazi Secret Experiments" thing going.

Another dieselpunk game would be Command & Conquer Red Alert (both 1 & 2)... They had references to the Philadelphia Experiement, Tesla Coils, time travel, Soviet attempts at world domination... The whole works.

One game that kind of blurs the line between steam and dieselpunk would be Iron Storm... It was set in a world where WWI dragged on for 50 years, and has the main charachter wearing a uniform much like a US Civil War uniform, but armed with wierd art-deco styled sniper and assault rifles, clockwork grenades and other cool stuff.

[Klynt Mahryd]

Oh yes, Return to Castle Wolfenstein is very dieselpunk.

[MPsy]

Rocketeer have always held a special place in my heart.  These days though it's not on as much as I would like it so I'm going to have to break down and buy the DVD.

[Noth Gram]

As far as clothing I believe Dieselpunk would have more industrial themed oufits, focusing on how new innovations in technology, such as the mobile assembly line, spread hard labor across most of America. I find that Steampunk has more to do with European, mostly, influence with clothing, technology, et cetria, while dieselpunk is more centered on America.
Although there can be a fine line between the two. It's easier to not think of, 'What's steampunk?', or 'What's dieselpunk?', but what do you like. As one who does not hold to guidelines or boundries, I tend to mix the two together sometimes.

-Note to self, go watch Rocketeer.-

[Klynt Mahryd]

I need to find it, but unfortunately all the dvd stores in the area don't carry it. Oh well, there's always Amazon.

For dieselpunk clothing, I'm thinking 1930s-40s era clothes. Fedoras, coats, leather jackets and stuff like that for guys. Whatever those hats were and the hairstyles of that period for the ladies, along with the heels and stuff. And of course, punk it up a little bit, with various art deco-y gadgets and bits and stuff.

[Cory]

I wouldn't consider myself an authority on anythingpunk, but it seems to me that "Dieselpunk" is as to Pulp Fiction and Art Deco as "Steampunk" is to Scientific Romances and Victoriana... The main emphasis of Pulp is on the era and aesthetics of the interwar period, 1920's and 30's, including Streamline Moderne, Art Deco, and German Expressionism... the Golden Ages of Hollywood, Comics, Radio and Travel... Big Band and Jazz music... the 1933 Chicago and 1939 New York World's Fairs... Pulp magazines and movie serials... H.P. Lovecraft and Hugo Gernsback... Sometime next year I'll do a theme month on it for the blog, though I will also be putting some emphasis on some specific manifestations of it in some theme months this summer.   

In the mean time, check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulp_magazine
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streamline_Moderne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_Deco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retro-futurism

[Klynt Mahryd]

Mmmm, pulp, streamlining, art deco...I swear, I think it was watching The Rocketeer and Indiana Jones as a kid that all got me into this 

[kiskolou]

I must add to Cory's post that Deiselpunk also enters ww2 and 40's territory. Nazi genetic  experiments and Red Army Rocketeers both easily fit. There is also often (but not always) more obvious dystopian themes present in Dieselpunk than steampunk. For a dieselpunk world is often either caught in perpetual war or already lost. As in Orwellian governments and such.

[Ottens]

Cory's right I think.  There's of course the obvious differences in setting.  Steampunk is typically set in Victorian-Edwardian England, while Dieselpunk stories tend to be set in later eras, usually the 1930s or Second World War, and America and continental Europe (the latter particularly in regard to WW2) feature more prominently in Dieselpunk stories.

The most significant difference, however, is probably in influence and style.  Where Steampunk draws inspiration from 19th century Scientific Romances and Voyages Extraordinaries, Dieselpunk stories are typically influenced by mid-century Adventure Pulp and are further characterized by the rise of petroleum power and technocratic perception, thus more dystopian, as Kiskolou rightly points out.

I have some articles at my website about Dieselpunk.  The first is more or less the article I wrote for Wikipedia's "Dieselpunk" entry before it was removed for being deemed "unnotable".  The second lists four quintessential works of Dieselpunk fiction by which I further examine the characteristics of the genre;  said works being the RPG Children of the Sun, the first self-proclaimed "Dieselpunk" game;  the first Indiana Jones film which is of course a perfect homage to 1940s/50s Pulp fiction;  Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, probably the single most popular and recognizable Dieselpunk film;  and Return to Castle Wolfenstein as mention here already too, which very clearly features another element typically more present in Dieselpunk fiction (think of Hellboy too in this regard):  magic.

Link:  http://www.ottens.co.uk/gatehouse/dieselpunk.php 

[Atterton]

Yes a happy dieselpunk world just wouldn´t seem right. To me aluminium is to dieselpunk what brass is to steampunk. The fuel is not something I consider important, except that the internal combustion engines mean certain things are possible which would seem wrong in the victorian age. Airplanes for example.

[Ottens]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention the obvious differences in appearance which were mentioned earlier in this thread too though.  Steampunk likes brass;  dieselpunk prefers aluminium, in deco shapes and all. 

I think the fuel is important, for precisely the reason you point out!  Steampunk has airships and trains, while dieselpunk has planes and cars (though there can be airships in dieselpunk too, of course).

[Hikaro Takayama]

Final Fantasy VII would be an excellent example of a completely different world dieselpunk setting:



They had advanced airships, Super weapons done in the WW II style (some of the mechanized enemies you fight even had the names of WW II tanks, such as the Cromwell and the GrossPanzer), and the Shinra grunts looked much like souped-up WW II German soldiers....

Even the story line was very dieselpunkish (Secret experiments, megalomaniac political leaders, a rag-tag resistance group fighting against the evil fascist governmet, etc).

[kiskolou]

Wait, the Victorians did have steam power! Why are you (topic starter) saying otherwise?

[Dr. Ed]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Bioshock -- the quintessential Dieselpunk/Art Deco game.

[Klynt Mahryd]

I'd love to see art deco come back as an architectural and industrial design art style

How cool would it be to have an art deco mp3 player?

[Dr Flonker]

I'd love to see art deco come back as an architectural and industrial design art style

How cool would it be to have an art deco mp3 player?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

William Gibson wrote a short story in "Burning Chrome" about Art Deco buildings.  He remarked that back in the late '40s & early 50's, somebody must have put Ming the Merciless in charge of designing gas stations in Southern California.  Being a crusty old bugger, I remember those days rather well...

[akumabito]

It is curious that many design aspects of the movie the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, set in a Victorian period, would be much better at home in a dieselpunk universe. Just look at all the art deco design influences on the Nautilus, and Nemo's car. Or the lair of the evildoer.. Yet I think they work for the movie. There is definitely something to be said about overlap of the different genres.. 

[heavyporker]

You know, guys, this might hurt a little, but after some contemplation... if push came to shove...

 I might say that blimps are Steampunkier, while zeppleins are Dieselpunkier. Fits more with the history, and considering what materials make up each type of airship, rather apropos, wouldn't you say?

 Anyways, personally, I still want my zeppelin in my Steampunk, too.