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Author Topic: Steamgoth?  (Read 17866 times)
Arcturon the hobo
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« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2008, 11:46:23 am »

Speaking as someone who was not goth before joining Steampunk, I fully believe that Steamgoth is possible.  Indeed, I myself was more influenced in my attempted look by Dracula and the Lovecraft mythos than by Wells or Verne.  It seems that the best way to accomplish it is by dressing Vicky, but with only black and white colours.  And a little bit of red.

Also, I feel like the Steamgoths should be descended from a tribe of German barbarians.  Ok, I'll stop.

Baltic barbarians. Wink
« Last Edit: May 13, 2008, 11:49:23 am by Arcturon the hobo » Logged

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Arcturon the hobo
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« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2008, 11:51:46 am »

Speaking as someone who was not goth before joining Steampunk, I fully believe that Steamgoth is possible.  Indeed, I myself was more influenced in my attempted look by Dracula and the Lovecraft mythos than by Wells or Verne.  It seems that the best way to accomplish it is by dressing Vicky, but with only black and white colours.  And a little bit of red.

Also, I feel like the Steamgoths should be descended from a tribe of German barbarians.  Ok, I'll stop.

I can see it now. Gear-axes a-la Warhammer 40K, the "bear-pelt-and-goggles" look, roasting dripping haunches of air-kraken over a blazing fire... quaffing...

GODDAMN. WE NEED SOME STEAMBARIANS.

Tugs on goggles and Mongol coat, grabs his bow.
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Albrecht
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« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2008, 08:17:41 pm »

Not to mention that, as the Kaiser of Germany, he was quite a Prussian bad-ass.

In deed so. Though most historians today think that if he had not been afflicted with a paralyzed arm, he wouldn't have developed his OTT militariristic personality, anyway, I liked his father much better, although he reigned only 90 days.

And a questions for the Americans (US and CAN): What would steampunk Native Americans look like an would they repel the white invaders more efficiently. Steampunk Sitting Bull could be qite terrifying, I presume.
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lilibat
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« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2008, 10:15:31 pm »

Just off the top of my head...

The problem with Steampunk Native Americans is that they tend to side toward the natural, well, most of the Native Americans that people think of which would be the peoples that lived on the plains. It could work though, I'm thinking about their portable housing (wig wams, etc.) being made of bradd frameworks that set themselves up and clockwork horses perhaps? There are images of Native Americans from the old west wearing more European sort of clothing.

Now Steampunk Aztecs, Mayans or Incans might work a bit better. They had more in the way of 'technology', generally speaking.

I am also thinking about the Urban Shamans from early Shadowrun and how a lot of it would end up with that sort of feel.
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chironex
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« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2008, 03:20:53 am »



Steamgoth?

You mean,

like this?

Or this?

Edit: I'm not quite happy with Deneghras hat, in any version of the figure, but...


Eew, Cryx....

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« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2008, 12:01:49 pm »



Steamgoth?

You mean,

like this?

Or this?

Edit: I'm not quite happy with Deneghras hat, in any version of the figure, but...


Eew, Cryx....

Long live the King!


If you don't want to join us, that's ok, we can wait till you die then you can join us! (inspired by a Cryx players sig on the Privateer Press forums)


But you smell funny.
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chironex
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« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2008, 12:18:35 pm »

When you're a rotting walking husk that moves only by the grace of the dragon-father you'll find no deodorants ever work on you ever again, too.....
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Ky_phosis
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« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2008, 04:27:13 pm »

If I may butt in out of nowhere... Grin ....I've basically come from dressing up as a Deathrock mess all the time. As in, very formfitting black clothes, ripped/tattered/distressed/aged pieces and gravity-defying hair. I think that it works really nicely when paired with fashions of yore. To give it a whole new name, like steamgoth seems rather unnecessary, though. This is basically what I look like when I'm not feeling too steam-y.  <br>
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Clockwerk Wolf
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« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2008, 05:38:57 pm »

You look fabulous.
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Ky_phosis
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« Reply #59 on: May 18, 2008, 02:32:46 pm »

Thank you, Wolf. *blush*
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Albrecht
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« Reply #60 on: May 18, 2008, 09:07:53 pm »

Oh, a very charming lady in deed.
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dr490nw4rri0r
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« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2008, 06:06:14 am »

If I may butt in out of nowhere... Grin ....I've basically come from dressing up as a Deathrock mess all the time. As in, very formfitting black clothes, ripped/tattered/distressed/aged pieces and gravity-defying hair. I think that it works really nicely when paired with fashions of yore. To give it a whole new name, like steamgoth seems rather unnecessary, though. This is basically what I look like when I'm not feeling too steam-y.  <br>


Kickass gear there. I thought about going the deathrock route myself once, but I only really see clothing as something to be worn out of neccessity to protect oneself from the elements, and when things get to the point of being considered 'tattered', they become scrap material for something else or get tossed out, depending on their condition and the size of peices. that and to get that stuff in my city costs about twice as much as it should. Also, deathhawks are overdone and overused, though I will be putting my own, celtic/dragon inspired spin on the mohawk once I'm working again.

When it comes down to it, I dress with what's available, and with what keeps sunlight, halogens, and flourescent light out of my eyes as much as possible, which means I never really look all that gothy(though I do have a tunic that needs repairs).
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lilibat
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« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2008, 05:34:11 am »

I made a livejournal community for just this thing:

http://community.livejournal.com/steamgoth/
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Alfaya
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« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2013, 10:05:51 pm »

I must admit that I have been hesitating in answering this thread, as it has not been recently updated. However, I have decided to 'revive' it because I would like to quote Mr. Alexander the Arcane:

My feelings for Manson and Anime aside; Steam's really quite flexible. A darker, more dystopian Steampunk (Unhallowed Metropolis; check it out) is pretty much what you're after. I mean, victorian goth is pretty much just steampunk with a different dominant colour scheme and popular materials; and vice verca.

After reading all the replies of this thread, I can't help but think that Mr. Alexander hit the nail in the head; I have found a lot of references to fashion and music, but I fear that giving sense to Steamgoth requires a deeper approach.

I have always thought that dystopian visions have room within the Steampunk genre, but I get the impression day by day that the utopian approach is the most widespread. Quite often Steampunk offers an idealized and ingenuous vision of the Victorian era, yet it was not so bright. The way I see it, Steamgoth would only make sense if it could fill the open space left by Steampunk as an aesthetic, providing us with a darker and beautifully poignant vision. A vision that would not ignore colonialism, child labour, gender repression or racial discrimination... embracing the Victorian fascination for all supernatural and even grotesque.

What do you think about all this, which elements would really justify the existence of Steamgoth making it different from Steampunk? Different sensibility, distinct values, different archetypes, divergent heroes? Huh
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2013, 08:04:21 am »

I do fear sir, given the rather youth, beauty, fetish and kink obsessed path Goth has taken in recent decades, for many of them all Steampunk will ultimately end up translating to is yet more of the same...in brown. That's not to say that the literature, inventiveness and general artistry has been entirely lost from the Goth scene of course. It's also my observation that a great many of the Goths with those type of predilections have in fact now become Steampunks.  Cheesy

But of course you are right, the dark underbelly of the C19th could certainly be interpreted by a contemporary form of neo Victoriana or whatever, just as it has been in the past. It's definitely something that influences my musical composisions. And there is in fact only one other composer that I'm currently aware of who is doing anything I would consider representive of a potential Steamgoth, or Dark Steam (as I prefer to call it) type sound. I remember when he first posted his work on here and I've been following his progress with keen interest ever since.

Spiky - CARNIVAL SYMPOSIUM


Needless to say we're both incorporating elements of classical, dark ambient, symphonic, traditional and experimental sounds and music in our work. All elements that can be found in Goth, Rock, Metal, Industrial type music as well, but this definitely has a very C19th Sci Fi/Fantasy focus.

If past experience is anything to go by, I have a suspicion this type of sound may well be pioneered in Europe in relative obscurity, until (after a suitable amount of time) some American picks up on it and everyone will think they invented it. (Don't mean to sound cynical but y'know, it's not like it hasn't happened before) I also realise Cpt John Sprockett is American, but this is certainly not a sound usually associated with The Cog Is Dead.

Anyway Steamgoths, yup we're still here.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

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« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2013, 06:01:21 pm »

Steamgoth is really one of those tongue in cheek words that people like to play with like dieselpunk in the steampunk subculture. But despite that steampunk folks have begun to accept it as a valuable word to denote those black steampunk outfits. To exist as a subculture, steampunk developed from the goth and cyberpunk. So aesthetically where fashion is concerned, it is something that has always been there with steampunk.

 To look at it more basically rather than where it came from as I have seemed to have delved in there, one with steamgoth is pretty much taking a goth design ensemble and accessorizing it with steampunkesque accessories. When it comes to those steamgoths who came from the goth scene, they always seem to wear a certain dark countenance in my experience. A fabulous thing that I admire the most personally. Because it feels more like they are expressing more of the Bohemian in their individuality. No matter how steampunk they tart it up with. As, afterall, steampunk is here to shake the way we look at our modern aesthetics around us. Though the goths counter culture so prominantly than this steampunk scene. In any case, what inspires you the most, even if it is not Victorian, is the true key to aspiring towards that individualistic dandyism in order to find our true way!
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Alfaya
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« Reply #66 on: February 24, 2013, 08:33:32 pm »

But of course you are right, the dark underbelly of the C19th could certainly be interpreted by a contemporary form of neo Victoriana or whatever, just as it has been in the past.

Absolutely Smiley

It's definitely something that influences my musical composisions. And there is in fact only one other composer that I'm currently aware of who is doing anything I would consider representive of a potential Steamgoth, or Dark Steam (as I prefer to call it) type sound.

Many thanks for your contribution. Mr. Spiky works are not new for me and I agree with you, they could be considered most appropriate. I find it very difficult to categorize any music with the Steampunk label, but artists such as Jill Tracy or The Parlour Trick, just to name a couple of examples, could become nice influences for a kind of Steamgoth-inspired musical works.

To exist as a subculture, steampunk developed from the goth and cyberpunk. So aesthetically where fashion is concerned, it is something that has always been there with steampunk.

Very interesting... I do not know if I would dare to consider Steampunk as subculture, and even less to link it so directly with the goth and cyberpunk communities. In any case, I would like to point out that, in my humble opinion, both Steampunk and Goth fashion trends are rooted in the 19th century, though Goth fashion is much more complex than steampunk due to its divisions: afterpunk/deathrock has nothing to do with cybergoth and nothing to do with goth romantic, for example. However, I am far from being an expert in all this, I am just a curious learner.

As, afterall, steampunk is here to shake the way we look at our modern aesthetics around us. Though the goths counter culture so prominantly than this steampunk scene. In any case, what inspires you the most, even if it is not Victorian, is the true key to aspiring towards that individualistic dandyism in order to find our true way!

Of course! Steampunk provides us with a different aesthetic approach and, even more, it questions our way of life, our relationship with technology, our social organization... but could Steamgoth do this with a different perspective? What do you think? Wink
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #67 on: February 24, 2013, 09:24:53 pm »

Of course! Steampunk provides us with a different aesthetic approach and, even more, it questions our way of life, our relationship with technology, our social organization... but could Steamgoth do this with a different perspective? What do you think? Wink


I think there will be full sized brass and copper Sybians, plenty of extremely revealing outfits in black brown and cream, and lots of "Little Death Rays".

I'd like to think there will be some good books films and music too as we're not all sex obsessed aesthetes. Don't get me wrong it has it's place. I just feel it's been disproportionately focused on in more recent incarnations. Looking good and being sexy isn't a crime by any means, but there was more to Goth once upon a time.

As for Steamgoth I like concepts of dark machinery, the steam technomage, twisted science etc. Also suggestions as to the underlying truth behind the possibly darker influences and messages contained in the works of C19th authors such as Jules Verne and Edward Bulwer-Lytton.

The Extraordinary Journeys of Jules Verne


Because really whether there is any substance to these theories or not, they are interesting concepts with potentially uncomfortable links to the events of later history. And a chance to make some insightful social commentry on the world today.

Steampunk does not have to be all whimsy by any means. The harshness of life experienced by many in the C19th is often illustrated pretty uncompromisingly in period productions. I see no reason to shy away from it, but there is always the "what if ?" offered by alternative history.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2013, 09:47:31 pm by Argus Fairbrass » Logged
andrew craven
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« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2013, 03:20:44 pm »

A huge part of modern influences on these sub-cultural trends comes from movies. Even before the term came about in literature, we had doctor who and the hammer horror movies and period dramas to name a few of those influences. Goth as a modern subculture is just a term to name a style of dark wave music that began to be used to tag the look that the punks were already doing anyway back from the late 70's. And that saw a revival in elegance with medievalism and those styles seen in the Victorian period. Steampunk is just as much spontaneous like this later on. Steamgoth has always been there. And so to extract those media influences, we are looking at horror movies such as Frankenstein, Dracula and Sherlock Holmes (since those Conan Doyle's were/are goth novels).  Today we have the Woman In Black, Priest (that has more industrial goth involved), Raven and Wolfman. In any case, historically, the main aesthetic seen in the Victorian period was gothic. The way they dressed in somber toned clothes, the architecture, poetry and art.

 If we look at the etymology of the words may give more of a value. Goth is more about architectural aesthetic through the ages that got itself from a tribe who sacked classical Rome. The architecture style they influenced that would be used for the church (the goths who sacked rome were christian at that time) as in the gothic pointy arches as opposed to the roman rounded arch and the overall structure of the halls of the churches.
 And then Horace Walpole in the 18th century, who loved the artistry of cathedrals and churches initiated it into building his own mansion for the first time. That idea and his novel 'The Castle of Otranto' (of which the film Alien is based on) began a whole new style for both architecture and literature in western art that became a prominent feature in the Victorian Period. Gothic buildings other than churches and the sensationalist genre of literature known as goth. The name would of course be later used to describe a style of punk music and hence the gothic subculture in all its spontaneouty.

 Of course steampunk has a huge goth influence more than that of the punk itself. But some of the ethos is there and has seen more of a revolution in color and gold/brass. I guess, steamgoth is harking back to that goth grandmother. Black psychological makes the individual wearer more opposing. What better way than to counter a modern mainstream culture in such a way. Steampunk countering with its absurdities and steamgoth countering with its generally black prominance!?
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ClaraRose
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« Reply #69 on: March 07, 2013, 05:10:33 pm »

I would say I am a goth of quite some tenure who is also a frequent visitor to Whitby goth festival. I first encountered Steampunks (steamgoths?) at the festival and have noticed over the past few years that the numbers of SPs in the crowds that throng the streets has gone from a smattering of brass and copper amongst the black to a distinct and vibrant part of the overarching festival with it's own events at the Rifle Club and quite a lot of sellers dedicated to the SP aesthetic, plus Abney Park headlining the music events. There is definitely crossover between the two elements and I have noticed many of the friends I meet their - particularly those of a scientific / mechanical bent - quietly developing and pursuing their steampunk passions whilst remaining outwardly goth (and mostly romanti-goth as mentioned in earlier posts).

And yes, goggles are everywhere though as a very small person they tend to look a little daft on my tiny head! I've noticed that several online gothic clothes retailers now offer clothes specifically labelled steampunk, though they often then also link them to trad goth categories.

Myself, I also fall into the romanti-goth category with a penchant for black velvet, lace and demure victorian blouses, but only last week found myself buying my first copper and black stripped frock which I both adore and find slightly amusing that the moment I don it I look like an extra from Ripper Street. I doubt anything will ever truly pull me away from my beloved black, but having a steamgoth twist to it adds a little bit of delight to my ordinary world  Smiley
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Alfaya
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« Reply #70 on: March 07, 2013, 07:27:42 pm »

Dear Clara,

I would say I am a goth of quite some tenure who is also a frequent visitor to Whitby goth festival. I first encountered Steampunks (steamgoths?) at the festival and have noticed over the past few years that the numbers of SPs in the crowds that throng the streets has gone from a smattering of brass and copper amongst the black to a distinct and vibrant part of the overarching festival with it's own events at the Rifle Club and quite a lot of sellers dedicated to the SP aesthetic, plus Abney Park headlining the music events.

I do share your view. In fact we will be attending the next Wave Gotik Treffen as vendors in a couple of months and there is no doubt that Steampunk is gaining prominence in the Goth scene too... Steamgoth rising? Cheesy

Coincidentally Abney Park will perform in this event. Or may this be no accident? Grin
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #71 on: March 07, 2013, 09:07:01 pm »

A huge part of modern influences on these sub-cultural trends comes from movies. Even before the term came about in literature, we had doctor who and the hammer horror movies and period dramas to name a few of those influences. Goth as a modern subculture is just a term to name a style of dark wave music that began to be used to tag the look that the punks were already doing anyway back from the late 70's. And that saw a revival in elegance with medievalism and those styles seen in the Victorian period. Steampunk is just as much spontaneous like this later on. Steamgoth has always been there. And so to extract those media influences, we are looking at horror movies such as Frankenstein, Dracula and Sherlock Holmes (since those Conan Doyle's were/are goth novels).  Today we have the Woman In Black, Priest (that has more industrial goth involved), Raven and Wolfman. In any case, historically, the main aesthetic seen in the Victorian period was gothic. The way they dressed in somber toned clothes, the architecture, poetry and art.

 If we look at the etymology of the words may give more of a value. Goth is more about architectural aesthetic through the ages that got itself from a tribe who sacked classical Rome. The architecture style they influenced that would be used for the church (the goths who sacked rome were christian at that time) as in the gothic pointy arches as opposed to the roman rounded arch and the overall structure of the halls of the churches.
 And then Horace Walpole in the 18th century, who loved the artistry of cathedrals and churches initiated it into building his own mansion for the first time. That idea and his novel 'The Castle of Otranto' (of which the film Alien is based on) began a whole new style for both architecture and literature in western art that became a prominent feature in the Victorian Period. Gothic buildings other than churches and the sensationalist genre of literature known as goth. The name would of course be later used to describe a style of punk music and hence the gothic subculture in all its spontaneouty.

 Of course steampunk has a huge goth influence more than that of the punk itself. But some of the ethos is there and has seen more of a revolution in color and gold/brass. I guess, steamgoth is harking back to that goth grandmother. Black psychological makes the individual wearer more opposing. What better way than to counter a modern mainstream culture in such a way. Steampunk countering with its absurdities and steamgoth countering with its generally black prominance!?

It's actually quite ironic how the colour black became such a counter culture symbol for many. Obviously it's the western association with death that gives it the gritty edge for some. From what I gather during the middle ages black fabric was extremely expensive due to the dyeing process. So it actually became a symbol of status and wealth initially.

In Europe it's been associated with mourning for about 500 years. But that was mainly because the royalty and aristocracy of those early times adopted it again as a mark of hierachy at funerals.

Later middle class merchants began to wear it in the hope of emulating them, which thoroughly annoyed the ruling classes and broke the sumtuary laws of that time that prohibited folks from wearing clothing too opulent for their station.

The Victorians were certainly very specific about mourning etiquette, and I believe there were many guides published on the subject. Queen Victoria of course broke all the rules by remaining in mourning attire for the rest of her life after Albert's premature demise, which I'm still very certain she helped to cause by being perpetually post natally depressed and a general all round stress bunny. (Although I expect the assassination attempts didn't much help with that either).  

The correct period of mourning for a widow was actually two and a half years, after one year you were expected to add some trimmings and jewellery (good old Whitby Jet being popular of course), then later some colour as you entered "1/2 mourning".

Still black clothes were more affordable by then, and the fashion changes and designs of some womens mourning attire became truly beautiful and astounding.

Although it didn't go down well with some of my alt buddies, personally I was quite grateful when the "designer black" thing happened back in the nineties. Apart from the fact that cool clothes became slightly easier to find, It made it acceptably fashionable to folks who would've previously shrunk from its funereal or rebelious associations. After all it can be a very flattering (and of course slimming) shade.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 09:10:56 pm by Argus Fairbrass » Logged
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« Reply #72 on: March 07, 2013, 10:01:58 pm »

Quote
Albert's premature demise, which I'm still very certain she helped to cause by being perpetually post natally depressed and a general all round stress bunny. (Although I expect the assassination attempts didn't much help with that either).

Don't really see how Qeen Victoria can be blamed for Albert's death.
(From Wikipedia)

On 9 December, one of Albert's doctors, William Jenner, diagnosed typhoid fever. Albert died at 10:50 p.m. on 14 December 1861 in the Blue Room at Windsor Castle, in the presence of the Queen and five of their nine children. The contemporary diagnosis was typhoid fever, but modern writers have pointed out that Albert was ill for at least two years before his death, which may indicate that a chronic disease, such as Crohn's disease, renal failure, or cancer, was the cause of death.
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2013, 04:33:29 am »

Having seen a number of examples myself, I'm a firm believer that consistently high stress levels can contribute to making one vulnerable to a great many illnesses. From accounts I've read Victoria was for many reasons a pretty stressful woman to be married to. Not that she can really be blamed for that, apart from the pressure being a woman on the throne at that time must have brought to bare, it has now been confirmed that she suffered from post natal depression which wasn't actually identified back then.

However I'm not attempting to cast unfair aspersions on the lady, she was in many ways quite remarkable and there is little doubt how devoted she was to Albert. So I will underline the stress theory is (as far as I know) totally my own, but still, we always hurt the ones we love ay?
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andrew craven
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« Reply #74 on: March 18, 2013, 06:13:08 pm »

I find it ironic that her eldest and deformed grandson Wilhelm (the kaiser of Germany) held her hand when she passed away on her death bed.

 By the way, I was wanted to express something I learned about the color black from a new age library book on healing with colour. It says that black represents youth who are positively ready for the world they venture out in. That must be a new interpretation of black for the age of Aquarius I guess! How did the ancients see black? Something I ought to go and have a goosey gander on! Mind you, there was that german doctor who inspired Hitler's SS to wear black with the whole prominance thing. The difference in interpretation compared to the centuries before 1900 may come with the new age of the 20th century thinking about it.
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