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Author Topic: The Stuff of Life, or the rights of a Construct.  (Read 2572 times)
Lazaras
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« on: March 18, 2007, 06:15:48 pm »

I'm sure everyone here is familiar with Frankenstein's monster. I'm also confident that most here has read Girl Genius. So I"m fairly sure that most here would know what I'm referring to when I say construct. For those that arn't in this context a construct is a thing created from parts of either the recently deceased or freshly grown parts(typically human, but not always). What rights would they have? What process would they have to go through before the church(of whatever denomination you please, lets just leave it at vuagely Christian in origin) recognize these beings as having unique souls the same as a new born baby? After all they did not ask to be created, just as you or I did not have any say in our own procreation. Ghoulish yes, but what of the people that give these beings life? Where do they stand, looters? Pioneers? Heretical minions of Evil?
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 06:26:57 pm »

It all depends on the opinion of the person on top (in charge) really.
If the leader of the church (in this case) were against the "construction" of such beings. Then it (and likely its maker) would be shunned from society.
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The Grand Duchess
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007, 06:48:46 pm »

They wouldn't have rights.  If I create a reanimated slave in a vat, it belongs to me.  It is in my power and I can do what I wish with it. Grin

But, since you bring in what society might think (bah!  Who cares what those cretins think of my masterwork?), I don't think they would approve.  I can't see the Pope saying that a reanimated corpse has a soul since according to Catholic doctrine, the soul leaves the body at death and does not return until the Resurrection. To reanimate a body would be to defy God's teaching that one should not put false gods before him; in other words, by bringing the dead back to life one is playing God.

Not that your average reanimator would care.  Reanimators usually don't believe in God, anyway- they believe in the supremacy of science, even if that means they have to worry about the undead chasing them down, crawling through the basement wall of the their houses, and tearing them into tiny pieces in total silence until nothing but the head is left, and then carrying that head back to who knows where...

Not that I would know anything about that. http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Herbert_West:_Reanimator

This is also why the Catholic Church sees things like cloning as unnatural- a ruling has already been given. http://thepopeblog.blogspot.com/2004/08/pope-condemns-human-cloning.html

But what do they know?  Once I start my brain experiments, I'm going to show them all just how wrong they are. You'll see.  I just need to find the right reagent, and I'll be able to make whatever kinds of undead slaves I want.
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007, 07:06:56 pm »

I would very much like this conversation to veer away from religious concerns about constructs, and perhaps shift it to the legal concerns.  No religious discussion, please, because I can imagine that it'd be all too easy for people to 'take sides' in what various religions might think of constructs, were they created.

Now, wondering what lawful rights you'd have for constructs...

I'd like to point out the closing scenes of Shaun Of The Dead as an example.
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Lazaras
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2007, 07:08:40 pm »

I suddenly find myself undereducated as I never got a chance to see that(the problem with living with people...they tend to change the channle, or heckle till you go elsewhere). However yes, lets move onto the legal side of things, religion's too bloody sticky an issue.


What would this fall under anyway, the same set of laws that govern cloning?
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The Grand Duchess
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 07:26:04 pm »

I would very much like this conversation to veer away from religious concerns about constructs, and perhaps shift it to the legal concerns.  No religious discussion, please, because I can imagine that it'd be all too easy for people to 'take sides' in what various religions might think of constructs, were they created.

Now, wondering what lawful rights you'd have for constructs...

I'd like to point out the closing scenes of Shaun Of The Dead as an example.

Not a problem.  That's why I simply stated the Catholic Church's position without going into whether scientists agree ofr disagree- except mad scientists, of course. Grin

As to law- it might fall under the same laws.  But I don't think it would.  does a deceased person have rights?  To some extent, yes- which is why necrophilia and graverobbing are crimes. Anthropologists are now returning the bodies of dead Native Americans to their tribes for burial.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2007, 07:29:09 pm by The Grand Duchess » Logged
Lazaras
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 07:29:45 pm »

Another thing I have to wonder is what sort of base knowledge constructs would have. Some schools of thought dictate that since the pathways in the brain are already set that you would more or less get a retread of the person who said brain used to belong to. Other schools dictate that the process t oreanimate the construct would essentially wipe the slate clean, yet give an accelerated learning curve up till you reach more complex concepts and ideas(as you'd be working with a larger brain instead of a small infent's brain).

Thoughts?
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Caffeinated Gent
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 08:00:05 pm »

Well, it depends on how crispy you like your neo-Victorianism.

If you like it extra crispy, the reanimated have no rights, and can be sold and purchased in the same way as a person.

But then again... We're Steampunks! Half the time we are the mad scientists!
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Lazaras
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2007, 08:06:20 pm »

Meaning its up to individual preference so long as the wider public doesn't know they exist. The thing is how to educate the wider audiance about these things? Would one have to? Suppose one could place the stitching so that its easily hidden, or figure otu a way of getting the fleash to heal over the joints so that unless one knew what to look for one would think these were simply People.
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Caffeinated Gent
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2007, 09:32:15 pm »

I really depends.

The Madboys think it's great, but want to dissect them to see how it works.
The Bohemians think it's wonderfully bizarre and have a drink!
The Police try to work out if they need to start a new criminal record, or can just use the old one.
The Church... Would probably have a hard time working out what's happening exactly.
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