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Author Topic: Zombie defense/survival  (Read 86626 times)
Emperor
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« Reply #100 on: January 20, 2008, 09:11:14 pm »



Interesting. A ferry would make an ideal base of operations - it'd be less likely to be seriously infested (cruise ships are bad enough at the best of times but tend to have a near permanent population), it'd be easy to defend (certainly against zombies, even against undead birds, and pirate types would struggle to board you. It'd also be like a movable castle and you could use it to clear port areas from before landing), it'd have plenty of space for housing people and storing supplies, there'd be plenty of catering and toilet facilities, you are mobile (if someone can work the beast) allowing you to move if things got crazy or if you needed to exploit supplies somewhere else. Also they'd have good radios and if you can connect to other survivors they'd offer the ability to pick them up (in the UK you are never too far from the coast). Also if the eventual plan to fall back to an island and restart civilisation was still ticking along it would allow you to head off there.

I had been thinking about some kind of smaller vessel but you'd probably be able to scrounge enough fuel to run a ferry and it has a lot of strategic advantages.

You should have no trouble. The minor snag would be that in the event of zombies I'd expect the average crew to close the doors and head for the open sea rather than leaving the ship conveniently fuelled and ready in harbour!

I suppose that would depend on down-time, turn-around, etc. and it is tricky to factor in what people would do during an outbreak. A good percentage would try and get home and/or the majority of people would be taken down without even knowing there is an outbreak (the death toll being rapid in the first day or two as the disaster grows exponentially).

I suppose I can be at the docks in Liverpool in 10-20 minutes and there are usually large ships docked there - you might not be able to bag a passenger ferry but there may be more commercial ones. The pig would be you'd need to be an expert to get out of the docks. I'd also not advocate travelling into a heavily populated conurbation under any circumstances.

So it wouldn't be something you'd want to plan for. My basic plan still stands - get out of town, get a boat and get to sea (oil rigs or the Isle of Man). From there you'd want to find the best radio gear you can and see what is out there. Given the number of ferries criss-crossing the Irish Sea (and the Highlands and Islands) you can probably rely on a good number being at sea during an outbreak (or running for it when TSHTF) or somewhere like Anglesey having something in harbour (the bonus is the port isn't in a heavily populated area, like Liverpool, Dublin, ). I think the main problem is convincing other people that you are safe (and vice versa if you get yourself safe). That'd depend on the mode of zombigenesis and the vectors of transmission.

There really are too many factors to prepare a clear plan (what happens if you are on holiday, going to a distant relatives wedding, etc.) so you can really only keep some basics in mind:

Get a weapon
Secure basic resources
Get away from population centres
Try and find an island (or equivalent)
Contact other people

Then you work through a few scenarios and if TSHTF you play it by ear but make sure you are flexible as you don't want to try and follow some strict plan as that'll get you killed as quickly as not having one at all Wink

If you did manage to find one, you'd have no trouble keeping supplies of food aboard (just drive trucks straight onto the car decks and hook them up to ship power to keep refrigeration units running) and you can stretch out the built in fuel tanks by carrying road tankers filled with suitable fuel. They tend to ride and handle better with a load of trucks aboard too. The Western channel ships would be a better idea than the Dover Strait fleet as the latter don't have many cabins. I would be inclined to go after the Normandie, Bretagne or Barfleur from the Brittany Ferries fleet.

Ah yes - I've used both and you are right it is the longer distance ferries (also the Santander one) that would be ideal for our purposes.

It'd certainly make the plan to make for the Channel Islands seem a good one, although it'd rule out Sark (as I don't think you'd be able to get a ferry close).
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johnny99
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« Reply #101 on: January 20, 2008, 11:01:31 pm »

     Ideally, once clear of the harbour, and immediate danger. You could make radio contact with other ships in the area and meet up at sea to form an armada of sorts.  Although you would have to be prepared to surrender command of your pirated ship, and share supplies.
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Von Gast
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« Reply #102 on: January 20, 2008, 11:29:46 pm »

I'm a bit dubious about this "pirated" bit. See, to my mind I found an abandoned ship and salvaged her...

and while I'm willing to serve in a convoy, if I'd got that far without bending anything I wouldn't take kindly to being told I couldn't handle a ship!
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akumabito
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« Reply #103 on: January 20, 2008, 11:34:56 pm »

...impenetrable 5 foot thick walls...

...quickly trot over to the university, rob the armory blind, set up camp on the top floor...

...It's foolproof...

Can't really put my finger on it, but something tells me you haven't really thought this plan through all the way...  Grin
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heavyporker
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« Reply #104 on: January 20, 2008, 11:43:18 pm »

 Surrendering command of one's ship seems a bit unlikely... It seems to me that professional sailors and ship captains/owners would be both very independent and very attached to their ships, and as to being frequently on the high seas and therefore quite likely to survive the initial zombie infestations, would also likely fight (and being in better shape from not having to flee zombies, have an advantage) any perceived or compulsory demand of the surrender of their ships.

 Of course, if many people get the idea to take to the seas... it's "Waterworld" all over again, and we'll have to suffer pirates. *sigh*. Despite some romanticism of the legend of pirates, they're dangerous, damaging, and not to be trusted/respected at all. They'll also likely take to the high-speed ships and completely overtake any of the larger ships with more people and supplies on.

 And contrary to the advice on many on this thread - stock up on guns and ammo if you take to the seas. Your only hope in the situation of pirate attack is to stock REALLY WELL on guns and ammo, and not just (relatively) weak handguns and short-range shotguns at that. You better have at least hunting rifles with sights on board, because range is your only friend at that point. If things get so bad that the pirates manage to board your ship... shotguns, and lots of them, and I'd say avoid being on the open deck if you can, though I imagine if you surrender the open deck to them, they'll try to burn you out.

 Oh, and before you completely dismiss guns solely for pirates on the high seas, may I mention that there'll be sharks?


 Oh, and the thought of managing to take a freight ship... *drool*. A veritable floating island. I know, fuel-hungry and hard to steer, but... if you could pull it off... and steer the ship to, say, the tropics... I'd say, bare the decks of as much as you can, but at least one or two layers of freight-truck boxes containing supplies and such could work, but what I'd do is move freaking buttloads of dirt and compost and fertilizer and spread it all over that. Not only will the dirt layer insulate the freight truck-boxes, but it means you have an outright full farm. That's hundreds of square yards of growing space. THAT will be quite enough to sustain many people for a long time. Years in the future, you can top up on fertilizer by pulling up algae/kelp and of course pulverize the fish bones you've stockpiled after all that fishing. Bonus of the tropics, aside from nice weather, is that it means multiple growing seasons a year. A necessity if you have many people on board. Oh, and I think there'd be sufficient roof space (ends of the ship, the bridge/superstructure, and such) that installing solar panels would be wise, and make the ship habitable long after the fuel runs out. Plus, before you waffle about, have you seen a freight ship from the dock? Even when they are "in dock", the lip of the ship can be several feet from the dock proper, while being loaded by crane or over planks, so if one just pulls up the planks, you can still stay "in dock", and therefore near any major source of supplies. Plus... freight ships are large enough to carry their own lifeboats, so... can you say "away parties"? These lifeboats would be so much better at going ashore ( also up rivers and so on) where ferry boats simply couldn't.

 I have to point out... no matter how many supplies you carry, you will run out of fresh water eventually when you sail away onto the high seas. Even with filters. Even if you somehow rig up some sort of condensation/distillation process. I'd only trust the condensation rig to provide the absolute minimum of water necessary to not die of thirst, not more as needed, especially if I was doing the agricultural works aboard the freight ship. Thus, the lifeboats will become even more important as docks and shore infrastructure deteriorate from lack of maintenance. Then you'll have to go up rivers (away from salt water) in order to take on water, even for filtration/purification (most filters are for organic impurities/bacterial contamination, not salt, anyway).

 Still, likely that things will be much better if a large group have the wits to take control of multiple different types of boats. As in, freight ship, ferry boat, a few yachts and many boats. Even if you manage to luck out and get a few sailboats, for the love of whatever you hold dear, bring a few canoes and rowboats, and not more than a few oars. You *will* need them, in my opinion.
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TristanRenn
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« Reply #105 on: January 21, 2008, 12:00:36 am »

While not succumbing to the normal human condition of loneliness, or depression over ones circumstances, or the shear crushing terror of being alone and surrounded by hordes of indestructible nightmares literally baying for your blood and Braaaaaiiiiiiins, every moment of your life.

Finally! Sociopathy has its advantages!
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heavyporker
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« Reply #106 on: January 21, 2008, 12:26:06 am »

 I hate to be uncouth, but in times of zombie apocalypse, I'd be danged sure to snag at least ONE woman before running away. Darn civilized morals, civilization is over and one must repopulate!
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Von Gast
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« Reply #107 on: January 21, 2008, 12:28:14 am »

Pirates eh? Well, one of the ships I'd be eyeing up once "escaped" during a Marines boarding exercise (apparently the skipper got fed up with them chasing on motorised tea trays and went to full power...). Add in the fact that fire hoses can sink small craft trying to board and I think I'll take my chances. Fresh water isn't a problem so long as you have power - ships often carry a device that can produce clean fresh water from salt water by forcing it through a very fine membrane.

Even better would be the GTS Finnjet. 33 knots and an icegoing hull. If you can't outrun it, you'll survive ramming it!
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heavyporker
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« Reply #108 on: January 21, 2008, 12:46:28 am »

 Reverse-osmosis is fairly energy-intensive, isn't it, plus does it not require maintenance?
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Monk
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« Reply #109 on: January 21, 2008, 02:21:22 am »

Gentlemens Handbook.......pardon my French, but where the HELL have you been, sir?  Please post in the Steampunks in Arizona thread.   Grin

http://www.brassgoggles.co.uk/bg-forum/index.php?topic=2734.30

I'm surprised Empty Head hasn't found this thread yet.  Me and him run ZombieSurvivalists.com, although it is currently down due to a site overhaul that I'm doing.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 02:23:00 am by Monk » Logged

Silas P. Morgan
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« Reply #110 on: January 21, 2008, 03:39:10 am »

Another problem with the "Hole-up in Wall-Mart" scenario..... after two hours in any Wall-Mart, you'd also become a zombie....... Grin
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johnny99
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« Reply #111 on: January 21, 2008, 04:15:29 am »

Another problem with the "Hole-up in Wall-Mart" scenario..... after two hours in any Wall-Mart, you'd also become a zombie....... Grin
     Or worse a greeter!!!!
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Dax
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« Reply #112 on: January 21, 2008, 05:36:40 am »

I live about half a block from the military university known as The Citadel. This place is literally a castle, a fortress, with impenetrable 5 foot thick walls. If zombies attack, I will quickly trot over to the university, rob the armory blind, set up camp on the top floor of the fortress and wait it out. There's bound to be asstons of food in the cafeteria there as well, so no need to worry about that. It's foolproof! Plus, I'll have a literal army of men to fight alongside me. (Nevermind the history of sexual assault at the university and the fact that if the zombies don't get me first, the hordes of young military men will rape me out of my mind...) I has I gun! You try anything, I keel you!!  Angry Sure... it'll work...
I've known a few Citadel grads.  There'd be a heck of a problem telling friend from foe...
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Atterton
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« Reply #113 on: January 21, 2008, 06:10:47 pm »

The hopelessness is something that have to be factored in. One thing I liked about 28 Days Later is how they managed to portray the feeling that the survivors basically had nothing to go on for.
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Monk
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« Reply #114 on: January 21, 2008, 07:13:17 pm »

If anyone in my camp becomes emo/suicidal, they'll be used as zombie bait.   Cheesy
« Last Edit: January 21, 2008, 08:08:49 pm by Monk » Logged
Dusza Beben
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« Reply #115 on: January 21, 2008, 10:44:52 pm »

If anyone in my camp becomes emo/suicidal, they'll be used as zombie bait.   Cheesy

Would emombies be even more lethargic than the garden variety zombie? Hmmm...

DB

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Sir Nikolas of Vendigroth
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« Reply #116 on: January 21, 2008, 11:16:17 pm »

I can be at the Liverpool docks, packed with all the stuff i'll need and ready to go in a little less than a hour.
Plus, i'll offer guidance and leadership to a load of chavs, and toss them to the zombies as bait, to stop them from wasting valuable ship-space.
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heavyporker
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« Reply #117 on: January 22, 2008, 12:21:29 am »

 Nikolas, at least knock out and tie up the prettier female chavs, if such a thing exists, seeing as that could be oxymoronic... They'll make splendid cabana girls once they smarten up, though, I bet!
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Derranged-Gadgeteer
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« Reply #118 on: January 22, 2008, 05:48:32 am »

I once tried to write a zombie survival book.  Most of it revolved around laying low and keeping quiet.  so the zombies just wander around outside until military arrives. 

My personal plan would be to build a compound around several buildings.  Using unused cars, dumpsters, fences, and felled trees to make barricades between buildings.  and from said compound:  conducting supply raids throughout the city, consisting of approximately 10 people, 9 shotguns, lots of ammo, and a pickup truck. 
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Sir Nikolas of Vendigroth
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« Reply #119 on: January 22, 2008, 09:55:50 am »

Nikolas, at least knock out and tie up the prettier female chavs, if such a thing exists, seeing as that could be oxymoronic... They'll make splendid cabana girls once they smarten up, though, I bet!

A ship of debauchery in the middle of the irish sea! Spiffing!
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Von Gast
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« Reply #120 on: January 22, 2008, 09:58:24 am »

Another thought: Are there any other CB radio people amongst us? These devices use very little power (a couple of 12v solar panels and a couple of old car batteries would keep one working almost indefinitely for static use) and can have a range of several miles if properly set up. Ideal for communicating with scavenging parties or other neighbouring groups of survivors!
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elShoggotho
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« Reply #121 on: January 22, 2008, 10:29:41 am »

Full plan: Seek out trustworthy people. Search some building, high-rise stuff, with a large ground coverage. Will be needed for running space and such. Stock up on food and gardening stuff, also weapons and recreational thingies. Ideally we're in a future where people started to build micro-nukes into larger buildings, that would eliminate power problems. Cut off every physical connection to the ground floor by destroying staircases and restricting elevators. No way in for the zombies. Make provisions to cut off further floors should the dead manage to get up there. Ideally use a building where the building substance itself is non-flammable, with a high melting point. You might want to firebomb a complete floor to get rid of the dead.

Always maintain one operational lift to the lower floors, ideally an underground garage stocked up with fuel and vehicles. Expeditions may be necessary. The lift guard has to be absolutely trustworthy, no one gets back in without going through quarantine first. Locked up in single cells for double incubation time after every expedition.
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clockdug
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« Reply #122 on: January 22, 2008, 03:37:01 pm »

CB's would be useful for local communications, but only for a few miles.  They are limited to 4 or 5 watts, most are AM and they are in the 27 mhz range, which is useless for long distance communications when we are at solar minimum.

I plan to use cb's for a local comms grid during the rebuilding phase, but think that a ham radio is much more useful initially.  They are also designed for 12 volt operation and the same solar panel/ car battery set up works perfectly.  Instead of being limited to less than  5 watts AM most can run up to 100 watts and use more efficient modes than AM, such as sideband, cw and digital modes.  Most importantly they are frequency agile and are designed for a variety of bands so you can have reliable world wide comms no matter how many sunspots there are.  Most hf rigs have around 9 or 10 bands ranging from 1.8 mhz to 50 mhz and then there are VHF and UHF bands as well. 

Mine is a "dc to daylight" wonder rig that operates all bands and all modes  from 1.8 mhz to 440 mhz and has internal batteries for short term off grid use until a 12v source can be set up.  There are over 600,000 hams in the USA so you should be able to find equipment after the zombacalypse, especially if you scope it mout now.  Or get your own now, licensing is easy.
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Von Gast
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« Reply #123 on: January 22, 2008, 05:26:29 pm »

Fair enough - I mentioned CB as it doesn't require licensing and I have some experience with it. You can boost the power (illegal, but post zombies who'll care...) on a CB but the frequencies will still be limited. British and Euro CBs are on FM rather than AM by the way.

Whatever happens, do not rely on phones of any sort working. Most landline exchanges and mobile phone "cells" have emergency power supplies but those are really designed to keep them working for a day or two at most while engineers repair them.

It does occur to me that the satellite transmission/receiving station at Madeley in Herefordshire might not be a bad place to make for. It's secure, and I recall being told on a school trip there (pre 9/11 when such things were allowed) that they have sufficient diesel to run all four of their backup generators for six weeks. If you cut back to one generator and don't run at full power you could probably eke it out to around a month's worth of heat, light, etc. Plenty of time for the problems outside to calm down and for you to scavenge fresh supplies. The site also has ample space for growing food and the communications equipment there could be used to transmit via satellite TV to other groups.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2008, 05:28:51 pm by Von Gast » Logged
Pheobsky
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« Reply #124 on: January 22, 2008, 08:28:06 pm »

Firstly it is important to be aware that you are unlikely to have much warning, & therefore it is most likely that you will be simply walking around a corner unsuspectingly when you find out!
However supposing one is given a few minuites warning before meeting this moaning mob of delightfull fellows, I think that it might be wisest to spread the word & then leg it, even if only to let people grab weapons to thin out the numbers while you escape (you selfish bugger!)

So supposing I somehow manage to escape my first encounter unbitten, I think that I should hop on a bicycle & head for the river as soon as possible, as I have a reasonable knowledge of London, I reckon I could get there fairly unscathed. My second step would be to get onto anything that floated (short term preservation), preferably a smaller vessel that I could handle without ease on my own, then as soon as I was a bit further down I would try & get something a little larger, around a 20 footer. Idealy I would be able to get one from a marina, as then it is more likely to have an outboard attached,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

 however as these are likely to either be already gone or infested, I would probably take one from a mooring line & hope the wind was reasonable ^^

My other thought is that I could simply moor up to a rubbish barge & wait it out, only going for occasional forages onland, this would mean that I also might be able to farm (out at sea the soil would quickly become too salty)

 Hmm my post has run on a little longer than I expected. Grin
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