Author Topic: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas  (Read 3063 times)

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« on: November 27, 2021, 03:17:50 am »
Well My good Netizens, here we are in winter ( at least in the northern hemisphere)
And it is time to consider emergency lighting and heating!

Especially in light of the great Texas Power outage last year!

As always, failure to plan is planning to fail!

Most folks are aware of kerosene and propane space heaters. Those are both costly and may emit carbon monoxide, so venting is a must!

NEVER EVER BURN A CHARCOAL GRILL INDOORS. THE CARBON MONOXIDE WILL KILL YOU!

Here is a variation of the ubiquitous candle and flower pot heater:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xnNHM4OLkvE

This is grand as it is a modernization of the ancient Grease Candle. It works with any grease, butter, veggie oil, etc
With the usual caveats , especially around design for safety, wicks, etc.

I ALWAYS recommend putting these things in some kind of cage since they WILL BURN YOU, and further keeping a bucket of sand handy is not just smart but necessary! Do you know what happens when you throw a bucket of water on a grease fire? No? Look here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVgQvfTf-mQ

So…
Get some cheap cans of crisco or other cheap lard.
Fir resistant jars to put it in
Candles for cores
Clay pots for heat sinks
Cages to put them in.
Several buckets of dry sand.

If you have a fireplace thats a good place. But then you would be burning wood, right?
Oh, and dont burn coal or charcoal in a fireplace.

DO NOT RUN THESE THINGS UNATTENDED!
Worst case scenario is overheating, lard vaporization and a self sustainting  jet like fire


Vegetable shortening wont go bad and can be used for lots of things. Even cooking!
I use it to rub onto  my hand formed clay pots. Once air dried to leather hard, i rub lard in and
Polish with a very smooth rock. It burnishes the pot and gives a glossy finish once fired.

Oil burning lamps are great if you are familar with them and know how to use them safely.


but I would avoid DIY alcohol burning lamps or stoves unless you are VERY conversant with them and the fuel. There are a numer of Kinds of alcohol out there now (like sterno) that can be toxic in enclosed spaces.
That said here is a link to a brick pile/alcohol burner. Note they are using 70% isopropyl.
With the shortage of alcohol as a hand santizer, I have seen menthanol and even more toxic stuff getting sold.
One brand of hand sanitizer is being recalled because of BENZENE IN IT!

DO put your fire out at night! Unattended cadles, lanterns and fires were the major cause of house fires in the bad old days.

Building a pile of bricks around your heat source will act as a heat sink, and will continue to bleed off heat once you put the flame out…

If one is very mechanical and so inclined one could build their one wood burning stove, but you should have alreadydone that last summer …. And put in a supply of wood… and set up a safe chimney….

More later
Prof marvel
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 03:30:37 am by Prof Marvel »
MIGRATION to Spare Goggles under way

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2021, 03:55:30 am »
If you have time for a project, here is a small concrete “rocket stove”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zsdYDf4Iib4

Of course one needs a chimney going through fire proof materials to the outside.

Prg marvel

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2021, 03:57:30 am »
Here is a warning regarding possible fire danger when using a “stacked clay pot” system with too many parFin candles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnna1PAakV4

Prf marvel

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2021, 04:15:12 am »
Here is a “paint can, toilet roll, and alcohol” emergency stove/ heater

If it were me, I would use nested cans, with concrete in between, resting on bricks, in a cage, and I would use rolled corrugated cardboard as a wick and grease as fuel instead of alcohol. Oh and a giant flower pot as a roof over the flame And as a heat sink.

Alcohol can be a good fuel BUT you must be aware of the contents and the dangers. For example, knocking over a burning open alcohol lamp spreads almost invisible flame faster than you can run. If one knocks over a grease lamp one can quickly dump a bucket of sand over it and know it is all extinguished.

Yet another example of why modern life is so much easier and safer than steamy times!

I canot tell you the number of times I helped out at the 1880’s historic Minnesota Gibbs Farm re-eanactment site:
 
- cut more wood because we ran out
- carried and stacked more green wood inside the kitchen (but away from the stove) because…
- refit stove lids on the kitchen stove because flame was shooting out
- had to troubleshoot the flue/damper/chimney/ smoke path/ stove flame path becuase of smoking stove
- had to get a professional sweep to clean the stovepipe - chimney fires will kill!
- had to forge yet another piece for the stove (most often the stove lids or a latch or grate) because they just plain burn out…

Oh and then we wanted to fire up the REALLY AWESOME steam driven farm machinery on display in the machinery barn ( a seperate building from the blacksmith shop and animal barn) . I kept saying “what is so hard?”
When the Boss was finally able to get one of the few remaining Steam Certified Engineers to come out, he spent Hours explaining EVERYTHING to me. And showed me photos of historic catastrophic Steam Disastsers….
OMG
Boiler explosions.
Live steam pipe ruptures
Extremely High Pressure live steam pipe ruptures
Runaway stationary Engines - usually reulting in exploding flywheels, shrapnell, fire, steam….
Even a plain old unvented hit water heater that blew and launched itself like a rocket, killing an unfortunate boy nearby.



Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2021, 04:27:27 am »
This guy built a tiny wood stove out of a discarded gas grill propane tank, with no welds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOZgXYqLoD8




This guy did it with welding, but you can also use a high temp gas torch and brass or branze brazing rod.
Its harder and requires more skills but I included it as he pays attention to flusking the tanks of residual gas!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOZgXYqLoD8



This one is a very elaborate bolt together that covers many important topics

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KF76mS1Eoww
« Last Edit: November 27, 2021, 04:31:30 am by Prof Marvel »

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2021, 04:39:52 am »
So I have gone from “emergency stuff” to diy stove.


If one is in a bind for heat but is willing to prepare, one can improvise an emergency chimney using
Stovepipe , stovepipe angles, and sheetmetal through an open window. But be sure you know what you are doing….


I have a fireplace ( but I need to cut more wood!!!!)

But if i had to, i would build a concrete stove and add angle iron on the front to accomodate a slide door for the firebox.

I am particularly intrigued by the way the mAker used foam to make his internal spaces. Any foam left over will get burned out in the first outdoor low temp firing which is absolutely required anyway.

I would also get some jugs of hightemp furnace/woodstove/refractory cement to line the entire thing with.
This stuff is absolutely required for a kiln or homemade forge otherwise the concrete just starts burning and spalling off.

One source of refractory cement , cheap, can be your local crematoreum. A bit ghastly, but they usually keep pallets of the stuff on hand for required rebuilds, and often will sell an “outdated” bag cheaply.

Now I need to find a new source for nickle silver bronze…

Yhs
Prof marvel

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2021, 06:17:22 am »
Here is a fellow who is using foamed concrete and corrugated steel as a safe method to install a woodstove chimney pipe through an existing window.

Bear in mind whilst this is a good method and installation, it is not something one does in and hour when the power is out during a blizzard. Having everything already built and in place and tested prior to any need would be ideal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPERwtwgFq0

Prof mumbles

SeVeNeVeS

  • Master Tinkerer
  • ***
  • Posts: 1639
  • Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2021, 01:38:42 pm »
With energy costs of gas and electric rising rapidly in the UK, i may indeed think about reviving the use of my wood burner.

I haven't had the chimney swept for many years and am out of usable wood.

This thread has without a doubt given me food for thought, many thanks Prof.

J. Wilhelm

  • ╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
  • Board Moderator
  • Immortal
  • **
  • Posts: 8113
  • Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple
    • NASA Dude
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2021, 04:59:31 pm »
Watching the thread with interest... Sadly from Texas.  :-\

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2021, 10:54:09 pm »
My dear Sev
Getting a professional chimney sweep is a good idea, if one can afford it! Years of possible Creosote buildup can be very dangerous, and one does not want to risk a house fire. One wants to ensure that the damper is intact and operational, that there are no nests in the chimney, and that the firbricks are in fact intact.

If it is a classic "open face" fireplace, and one could afford it, a simple insert like a Franklin Stove is incredibly more efficient at keeping the heat in as opposed to all the heat flying up the chimney.

Or one of those glass door fireplace covers helps keep the heat in, easy to install and more economical for occasional use.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200447826_200447826



My Dear J
If one has a landlord, unless he would go for a quality window chimney mod, I would suggest
collecting some solid bricks, large nesting steel cans, and candles or Crisco  to construct a
"Loose brick candle/grease" heater as previously mentioned. One can use the brick as a loose
decorative wall detail until needed. Perhaps in a simple 1x4 frame that can double as a base frame for the flooring bricks.

Oh and a couple of buckets of sand. Could be used to stick artificial holiday plants in.

If Texas gets crazy cold again this could be a life saver.

Also tinned meat and a bag of rice and a bag of beans and some jugs of water as emergency rations...
Oh and remember the "three sisters" rice, beans, and corn. They make a complete protein and the Native Americans of The Great Southwest lived on this for centuries with only occasional meat.

Yhs
Prof marvel

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2021, 11:00:21 pm »
Oh here is another thought.

One CAN safely use a propane camp stove indoors IF one has a kitchen vent Hood that actually vents to the outside!
It does not have to be "on" ( no electric?) But the heat of convection will go up and exhaust the worst.

Then for heat one can use heavy metal implements on the stove , or large rocks
THAT YOU HAVE ALREADY TESTED BY HEATING IN a STOVE TO 500 Degrees for several hours.
Or in an outdoor small bonfire.

When removing said stones, DO NOT DOUSE THEM WITH WATER, EVER.
One is trying to drive all water out to avoid steam explosions.

You do not need exploding rocks on your camp stove.

Alternatively if one has huge chunks of unpainted steel or iron, that is good too.
But test ahead of time by preheating in an outdoor fire.

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2021, 11:06:52 pm »
Speaking of outdoor fires...

Yes, one CAN use them! Cook your food outside!

Build up a fire pit in the yard, away from other flammables.
Use cinder blocks, bricks, and a heavy steel grid or griddle.

Burn as usual, but keep the fire small, so as not to waste wood.

Then , heat pretested rocks or heavy unpainted iron on the fire and get help to use tongs
Or mop handles to bring the hot rocks indoors and pile them on a prebuilt noncombustible
Brick base.

Not ideal, but the radiated heat will last a while in small rooms, and one does not have
So much of a possible fire Hazzard whilst sleeping.

IF one combines candle/grease stoves during waking hours with hot rocks at night, and stays
Bundled up, topping up with hot soup and hot tea, one can survive outages comfortably.

« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 08:46:55 am by Prof Marvel »

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2021, 11:39:03 pm »
Camp Stoves

Back to camp Stoves.
One CAN use well maintained camp Stoves and lanterns indoors IF
They are well ventilated. They can and do produce carbon monoxide if there is incomplete combustion.

But use them in the kitchen! That is the room designed (or supposed to be) for good ventilation .

There are several main variants

1) charcoal/ wood rocket stoves.   NEVER USE THESE INDOORS!

2) white gas or Coleman fuel stoves and lanterns.. . Maybe. The fuel is smelly, highly combustible when spilled,
And often burns incompletely in older appliances. Use with caution and good ventilation. Always turn off and let cool before refueling, and refile outdoors.

3) LP or Butane.  yes! It is the same gas used in your kitchen stove. The caveat is ... Use it in the kitchen!
Under the vent Hood! And make sure to have adequate ventilation. Also.. adjust the flame so you have a clear blue (not yellow) flame. Yellow means incomplete combustion and thus carbon monoxide. Both stoves and lanterns
Using those mantle are considered relatively safe. When not cooking you can heat thermal masses (pretexted rocks and heavy iron) to take to another room using tongs or welding gloves.

4) alcohol stoves / lamps.  yes, with caveats.
Use a denatured alcohol stove. Fuels like isopropyl alcohol burn clean and produce less carbon monoxide, even though the fire risk is still present. You can find canned heat with different fuel combinations. Look for a product that uses denatured alcohol, and that is safe to burn indoors. It’s a convenient alternative to a denatured alcohol stove since it takes less space.

Again, good ventilation

5) Oil Lamps. .... Definitely yes. Clean burning commercial lamp oil is safe. Usually it is a kerosene like product, so care and ventilation is required. True veg oil or grease lamps are hard to find any more.

6) Coleman style or Mantle lamps .. definitely safe, same caveats.
 The mantle glows brightly and gives off a lot of heat. Handle carefully.

As always safe handling of hot stuff is important. Do not leave any unattended flame burning.
Keep buckets of sand handy.

And how do we tell if we have adequate ventilation?
Carbon monoxide detectors! They are fairly reasonable and worth their weight in gold
In fact have at least one of them and several smoke detectors! And spare batteries.


Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2021, 12:02:28 am »
If price is no object ( oh, we won the lotto! AND the Irish sweepstakes!)

1) a quality genset. Preferably three fuel. LP ( butane) , gasoline, and natural gas.
4000 to 5000 watts can run most essential stuff.
A 4000 watt generator can be had in the states for under $500 if they are in stock.
One does need to know and understand how to set up, connect, and run it.
And to have and maintian a supply of fuel, thye go thru gas quicker than most people think.
Also, unless you use LP the gasoline must have stabilizer and be rotated.

If you rely on natural gas from the utility, you must remember that the gas may also be interrupted.

Here's one, wenn is a good brand
https://www.amazon.com/WEN-GN4500-4500-Watt-Generator-Compliant/dp/B083FFCTVZ/

These can get very expensive very quickly

Small portable gasoline sets can be had for around $200.

If one has a gas or oil fueld furnace, a small generator can keep that going as well as a few lights and the fridge.
Low wattage led bulbs are your friend!

The electric stove,  kettle ( or any other electrical heat appliance) is NOT your friend.

The ultimate is to purchase photovoltaic panels (minimum of 5 kw) and controller/inverter and battery bank.
Unfortunately that will run about $1 per watt for panels, plus $1000 for an inverter plus another $1 per watt for batteries…. And installation will double that.

I ahve have MANY friends ask about these little portable solar units. Basically a 100watt panel and a car battery and a small perhaps 200 watt inverter. It will run an led buld and a laptop for a while but not much else.
Forget about any appliance, fridge, any kind of heat. One is better off spending the $500 on a small generator and 5 5 gallon jugs of gasoline and getting to work learning how to safely set up, connect, and run it.

Also… with any emergency equipment…
Learn it ahead of time
Do dry runs ahead of time
Do live switchovers ahead of time
Pick a cold night and declare
   “ hey we are having a power-out party! Time for Boy Scout Fun”

I have a friend who dropped $5000 on a trifuel genset, cables, etc.
they are all sitting in the shipping box in his garage.
Nothing set up, no wiring done yet.
When the hurricanes hit in florida and he needs it, he will be spending
2 to 3 days in the dark and the heat trying to make it happen.
AND he has not even tested the generator yet. …
     Those who fail to plan have planned to fail
Please feel free to comment, questions, anything….

Yhs
Prof Penultimate Boy Scout

SeVeNeVeS

  • Master Tinkerer
  • ***
  • Posts: 1639
  • Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2021, 04:49:14 am »
I was toying with the idea of getting my brick chimney lined with a twin wall stainless steel flue liner but at a cost of £1000 it kinda put me off a bit.

Could be worth mentioning that in the UK, as with gas appliances, there are certain regulations regarding wood burning stoves.

The one that springs to mind is if rated at over 5KW output, an air brick direct to outside is required to provide fresh air for combustion, I'm OK because mine is 1-5KW.

Just a thought.

Cleaning..... Be prepared for a lot of ash dust floating around the house, I usually wait a few days after a burn up and jamb the hoover hose in, bungs up pretty quik but does the job, for the glass and paintwork, I use Oven Brite cooker and hob cleaner, a light squirt, wait a few minutes and wipe off. ( also very good at cleaning white UPVC windows and doors and my kitchen cabinets  ;))
:



Oh, and I can recommend some kind of wire mesh fire screen to be used, some wood can pop when the fire door is opened, I have burn marks in the carpet almost 3ft from the burner. ::)

I also reinforce....... DO NOT use BBQ charcoal indoors, its used as a method of suicide and many people have died either accidentally or intentionally due to carbon monoxide poisoning.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 06:42:14 am by SeVeNeVeS »

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2021, 07:07:06 am »
Snip…

I was toying with the idea of getting my brick chimney lined with a twin wall stainless steel flue liner but at a cost of £1000 it kinda put me off a bit…

Oh, and I can recommend some kind of wire mesh fire screen to be used, some wood can pop when the fire door is opened, I have burn marks in the carpet almost 3ft from the burner. ::)

Endsnip….

My Dear Seven
If you have a functional chimney and doors already… and do not intend to use it full time, I dont feel
The cost of lining and getting an insert is worthwhile….

The doors alone decrease the heat loss tremendously.

One can start collecting scrap lumber and windblown tree limbs, more preparation spread over time makes it easier.

One trick i learned long ago is cleaning the glass with crumple newsprint and windex. Works a treat.

When one gets a chimney cleaned by a pro, they “ought to” drape up the firplace and clean up before leaving.
Chimney soot can really tear up your hoover!


Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2021, 07:14:54 am »
More thoughts regarding cheap heat…

The candle/ lard/ alcohol burners are remarkable for their simplicity and the surprising amount of heat they put out.

With that in mind, it occurred that I should mention “more is less”

Rather than concentrate your candles/burner into one central brick pile, it behooves one to spread them out into several places around the periphery of the room. This is useful because of one concentrates TOO MUCH heat
Into a brick pile, it can rapidly become too hot to touch, and so hit it may actually vaporize the fuel and cause
A furnace jet… ie, a miniature chimney fire. This situation is to be avoided at all costs, and is more easily achieved with Low vapor pressure fuels such as alcohol but can occurr with a lard furnace.

If it occurrs the only thing is to smother it with sand. Hoping to let it burn itself out is a danger.

However, instead of having say 10 candles bundled into one furnace,  one can distribute 10 candles in jars surrounded by bricks and flower pots  about the room.

Prof marvel

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2021, 07:37:35 am »
Thoughts on INSULATION

The greatest heat loss in a home is through the doors and windows.
In an emergency, one can pin (or nail) spare blankets across the windows ala Dr Zhivago.

One might consider being proactive and getting those plastic shrink tape on storm windows coverings!
I can offer real world evidence that those things cut out drafts entirely and add another several inches of dead air
Insulation that is useful all winter.

Additionally, rolled towels placed across exterior door thresholds will stop a lotmore cold air.

Final idea , for below zero drop dead emergency, is to do all the above, pick a large room, and put up a
Tent inside that room. You can heat that tent with candle lamps and between the candles your body heat it
WILL be quite comfortable. Shoot, you can even move furniture around to make a sofa fort draped with blankets.

Just make sure there is some ventilation for the continuing breathing that is important….

SeVeNeVeS

  • Master Tinkerer
  • ***
  • Posts: 1639
  • Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2021, 08:19:59 am »
Here's a few pictures of my set up, the woodburner provides extreme local heat, radiant heat pre-heats the central heating pipes running around the fireplace (hopefully saving gas) with a seperate pump if required and rising heat from the room filters through the wall vent into the stairwell to help warm upstairs. With a hopefully Steampunk feel.

If you can think of any way to improve it please do offer suggestions, my thoughts are, not extremely efficient, maybe some steel plates attached to the pipework to increase the surface area receiving radiant heat?, the granite liners do get rather hot.

:






 

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2021, 08:23:49 am »
Someone asked… what about my car? ( should one be available)

Well the auto has a lovely powerful engine, and son of a gun a built in alternator generating 12 volts!
But it can only put out between 1kw to 4 kw depending on the model.

But first it must be in good condition, full of gas, one must be able to run it outside ( or have an axhaust pipe leading outside of the garage) and extra fuel since it will run on idle for about 2 days.

But most important, one needs an inverter! One needs to invert 12 vdc to your mains equivalent.
In the US that is 110 volts ac at 60 hz
In the UK and EU it is 240 ac at 50 hz
Your mileage may vary.

One would need an inverter that will put out between 2kw and 4kw, preferabbly pure sine wave , the more watts the better. Like this one

The cheapest i have seen recomended is the Krieger 3kw modified sine wave

https://www.amazon.com/KRI%C3%8BGER-Installation-appliances-According-Standards/dp/B07MPKKBTW?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1

This puppy will cost $300 US from amazon, and that does not include wiring etc.
and for that money one can get a 3kw stand alone genset which is more efficient
and just run heavy extension cords. It also frees up the auto for errands like this one


https://www.amazon.com/Westinghouse-WGen3600v-Portable-Generator-Compliant/dp/B07167Y2CF/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=Westinghouse-WGen3600v-Portable-Generator-Compliant&qid=1638087871&qsid=147-4097442-6282849&sr=8-3&sres=B07167Y2CF%2CB000V5YMBW%2CB08LZ4YLCL%2CB01M0N8256%2CB07Q1DLKBG%2CB07D29QNMJ%2CB06XC47ZX4%2CB07BYK2ZPP%2CB01MUP6L1U%2CB07SM5HBK1%2CB08NSYCZD4%2CB08P2Q83BY%2CB082TMBYR6%2CB0986PLM2G%2CB0823BB4RV%2CB098N7V7DF&srpt=ELECTRICITY_GENERATOR&th=1

Hope this helps
Prof mumbles
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 08:25:27 am by Prof Marvel »

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2021, 08:43:59 am »
Here's a few pictures of my set up, the woodburner provides extreme local heat, radiant heat pre-heats the central heating pipes running around the fireplace (hopefully saving gas) with a seperate pump if required and rising heat from the room filters through the wall vent into the stairwell to help warm upstairs. With a hopefully Steampunk feel.

If you can think of any way to improve it please do offer suggestions, my thoughts are, not extremely efficient, maybe some steel plates attached to the pipework to increase the surface area receiving radiant heat?, the granite liners do get rather hot.


Ah My Dear Seven!
That is quite delightful and clearly thought out!
Are the gauges functional, and if so what do the measure?

My only thoughts for improvent would be to increase the thermal mass at the piping and the contact between 5e pipes and the mass. Hopefuly someone with more thermodynamics calculus will chime in (hey J your up! )?

If you can remove the standoffs from the piping and put them in direct contact withe granite you “ought to” achieve better heat transfer. An ugly alternative would be to pour concrete or plaster in there around the pipes with the intent of leaving them half exposed, half embedded and sort of cememnted to the granite.
But it would be ugly! And i am not at all sure of how much transfer would be gained.

Also, painting the copper pipes flat black back there  will also increase heat transfer. Again the question is “how much” …. Hmmmmm calculus i despise you.. and fournier transforms.  and subatomic physics.

I love the old CRC manual where one can look up tables and get “rule of thumb” numbers good to 5% or better…

 Wow, i do admire your work there! And that is one dandy airtight woodburner!

If possible try to burn only dry hardwood. Resinous pine grows quickly, burns hot and fast, but leaves that nasty creosote that causes chimney fires .

Scrap building lumber , if really dry, can be good. The junk we see these days is not all that resinous.

Any scrap lumber from furniture should burn well, as long as it is real wood.

Start colecting wood now, and beat the rush!

Yhs
Prof marvel

SeVeNeVeS

  • Master Tinkerer
  • ***
  • Posts: 1639
  • Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2021, 09:12:41 am »
Here's a few pictures of my set up, the woodburner provides extreme local heat, radiant heat pre-heats the central heating pipes running around the fireplace (hopefully saving gas) with a seperate pump if required and rising heat from the room filters through the wall vent into the stairwell to help warm upstairs. With a hopefully Steampunk feel.

If you can think of any way to improve it please do offer suggestions, my thoughts are, not extremely efficient, maybe some steel plates attached to the pipework to increase the surface area receiving radiant heat?, the granite liners do get rather hot.


Ah My Dear Seven!
That is quite delightful and clearly thought out!
Are the gauges functional, and if so what do the measure?

My only thoughts for improvent would be to increase the thermal mass at the piping and the contact between 5e pipes and the mass. Hopefuly someone with more thermodynamics calculus will chime in (hey J your up! )?

If you can remove the standoffs from the piping and put them in direct contact withe granite you “ought to” achieve better heat transfer. An ugly alternative would be to pour concrete or plaster in there around the pipes with the intent of leaving them half exposed, half embedded and sort of cememnted to the granite.
But it would be ugly! And i am not at all sure of how much transfer would be gained.

Also, painting the copper pipes flat black back there  will also increase heat transfer. Again the question is “how much” …. Hmmmmm calculus i despise you.. and fournier transforms.  and subatomic physics.

I love the old CRC manual where one can look up tables and get “rule of thumb” numbers good to 5% or better…

 Wow, i do admire your work there! And that is one dandy airtight woodburner!

If possible try to burn only dry hardwood. Resinous pine grows quickly, burns hot and fast, but leaves that nasty creosote that causes chimney fires .

Scrap building lumber , if really dry, can be good. The junk we see these days is not all that resinous.

Any scrap lumber from furniture should burn well, as long as it is real wood.

Start colecting wood now, and beat the rush!

Yhs
Prof marvel

Indeed the gauges are functional, one tells me the pressure in the central heating and other lets me know the temperature within the wood burner void.

I am sort of against covering the pipework too much, I have already coated the pipes you cant see behind the burner with engine black paint. I'm thinking a huge 10mm thick steel plate hidden behind the burner full width and projecting slightly forward. :-\

Will have to dig out the stick welder and start to refine my skills methinks, I'm going on more surface area to attract heat............ Hang on a minute, I have a load of old radiators upstairs......chop bits out and I could have the material I need, now where did I put that angle grinder?...............

Prof Marvel

  • Zeppelin Captain
  • *****
  • Posts: 1157
  • Above All Else, Do No Harm
    • Spare Goggles
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2021, 10:50:42 am »
I can understand the desire to keep the pipes visible, they add more ambiance than anything!

If you are willing to cover the marble, attaching the pipes directly to steel plate in the back might help transfer....

Oh if you can afford it a harbor freight wire welder is trick!

And since you are so handy, I bet you can salvage a high amperage truck alternator and drive it with a scavenged small engine making your own genset. One interesting thing is that gasoline driven small engines are Insanely easy to convert to run on LP, Butane, natural gas, or wood/coal gas. I have a simple kit I am installing on my 8kw genset so I can connect to it to a large LP tank for emergency power.

I once had dreams of running a 15kw Lister Diesel, until I learned of the troubles, dangers, and why they have been dumped in the civilized world. Much like exploding home steam boilers :(

I have gained great respect for the old-timers that have had to deal with runaway engines whose castings started to glow red....
« Last Edit: November 28, 2021, 11:06:06 am by Prof Marvel »

J. Wilhelm

  • ╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
  • Board Moderator
  • Immortal
  • **
  • Posts: 8113
  • Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple
    • NASA Dude
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2021, 05:45:24 pm »
I still think this Winter, my best bet will be a traditional gasoline electric generator. It's the only reasonable solution you can keep close to home or even in your garage if you deal with the exhaust properly.


However, here's s neat idea I saw today of you live near s creek, and if you won't have to deal with freezing temperatures (worth a watch)

https://youtu.be/_DWTXxWvQEc

J. Wilhelm

  • ╬ Admiral und Luftschiffengel ╬
  • Board Moderator
  • Immortal
  • **
  • Posts: 8113
  • Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple
    • NASA Dude
Re: Its Winter! Alternative Emergency Heat Ideas
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2021, 05:52:40 pm »
More thoughts regarding cheap heat…

The candle/ lard/ alcohol burners are remarkable for their simplicity and the surprising amount of heat they put out.

With that in mind, it occurred that I should mention “more is less”

Rather than concentrate your candles/burner into one central brick pile, it behooves one to spread them out into several places around the periphery of the room. This is useful because of one concentrates TOO MUCH heat
Into a brick pile, it can rapidly become too hot to touch, and so hit it may actually vaporize the fuel and cause
A furnace jet… ie, a miniature chimney fire. This situation is to be avoided at all costs, and is more easily achieved with Low vapor pressure fuels such as alcohol but can occurr with a lard furnace.

If it occurrs the only thing is to smother it with sand. Hoping to let it burn itself out is a danger.

However, instead of having say 10 candles bundled into one furnace,  one can distribute 10 candles in jars surrounded by bricks and flower pots  about the room.

Prof marvel


That's what I was about to mention. It has the added advantage of giving you a strange ambience. You can play some Gregorian chants and channel your inner Uncle Fester / medieval monk with all those candles in a room.