Author Topic: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft  (Read 1793 times)

Hurricane Annie

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Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« on: October 29, 2021, 02:35:59 pm »

Jetson one. The personal electric aerial vehicle.  Will these take off?

 It looks like a totally groovy ride

https://youtu.be/FzhREYOK0oo

https://www.jetsonaero.com/

Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2021, 02:42:44 pm »







Prof Marvel

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2021, 02:35:59 am »
Cool stuff, Annie

I wanted to post, but. Read about ed aka maets
I will come back later to poke fun & etc later when my eyes stop leaking

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MIGRATION to Spare Goggles under way

J. Wilhelm

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2021, 02:48:22 am »








https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UTR_wme_2ow

It's most interesting, but the range is still very short. I have no doubt price can go down.

If i give my "expert's" opinion on manned drone technology, I'd strongly recommend that startups consider the use of hybrid diesel electric technologies, while battery technology makes the next leap in performance. Since the energy density of batteries is still too low - especially for vertical takeoff vehicles - the energy storage device should be a combustible fuel of some sort, biodiesel if you want. I'd love to see the effect on the range of something similar to this.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 03:09:58 am by J. Wilhelm »

Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2021, 05:19:44 am »








https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UTR_wme_2ow

It's most interesting, but the range is still very short. I have no doubt price can go down.

If i give my "expert's" opinion on manned drone technology, I'd strongly recommend that startups consider the use of hybrid diesel electric technologies, while battery technology makes the next leap in performance. Since the energy density of batteries is still too low - especially for vertical takeoff vehicles - the energy storage device should be a combustible fuel of some sort, biodiesel if you want. I'd love to see the effect on the range of something similar to this.

 Now you're  talking. Civilian commercial uptake will  push the military  research to make the next leap in technology.  Luxury buyers will want   the bigger boost  of bio fuel, in the absence of  a current alternative.
 
   

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2021, 02:18:02 pm »

*Snip*

 Now you're  talking. Civilian commercial uptake will  push the military  research to make the next leap in technology.  Luxury buyers will want   the bigger boost  of bio fuel, in the absence of  a current alternative.
 
  

Part of the problem with electric is that it's "too sexy.". Tesla has everyone convinced we can jump directly into electric technology without any use for hybrids. It turned out electric was good enough for city buses and urban commuter cars. It's even useful for slow moving propeller aircraft, but people have no idea how much energy it takes. We neglect the long range applications. If we had electric charging stations floating in the sky or mounted on giant posts, like in the Jetsons cartoon, then maybe we could deal with the short range.

What I propose is that the diesel or gasoline engine generate the electricity to top off the batteries at all times, like a Diesel electric locomotive. There are other manned drone designs out there (see the Guild of Icarus at the Meta Clubs section of this forum) that look better and bigger. As shown here,this vehicle is good only for exactly what they showed in the video: play at the beach.

If you're living at a resort town in Costa Rica and Mexico, maybe you could use it to ride into town, 5 minutes away. Parking so that it doesn't get stolen would be a great challenge, unless you can land on the roof of someone you trust (without getting tangled in electric cables, that will be an interesting problem to solve), but I can see that use right now for that type of vehicle. $92K ?  Yeah, it's a rich man's toy.  Reminds me of that submersible watercraft that looks like a dolphin.

We should be able to size it up, and make it into a closed or semi open vehicle to improve the aerodynamics; make it a two passenger craft as a minimum, and mount the petrol tank and diesel generator somewhere. I think that's still light enough to work as an 8 rotor design with existing propellers and motors, and it would make this toy much more useful. Still a rich man's toy, but more like a convertible roadster, and enough to whet the appetite of consumers.

These vehicles will not fly in high density urban environments like Mexico City and New York, unless we can make this design into an autonomously flying drone such as the proposed aerial taxi in Dubai (?) The problem is that urban environments present too many obstacles at landing and takeoff, including other drivers, passenger aircraft, police helicopters and people flying unmanned drones! And I didn't even mention birds.

What I would propose for actual commuter and long range vehicles is use of swarm technology to have all manned drones communicating with one another, and working from digital maps of the city or areas of high traffic. "Highways in the sky" would be generated from chaos theory, to manage the traffic. Highways literally could change from day to day, to adapt to a changing landscape, construction sites, etc.  This is a lot of work and won't happen overnight, but if people really want this,they need to start now.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2021, 02:26:39 pm by J. Wilhelm »

Prof Marvel

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2021, 03:21:29 am »
Ola happy amigos

3 things come to mind

1) OMG the morons cant drive a motorcar safely, how are they going to handle a high speed aerovehicle traveling
  in 3 dimensions, ignoring crosswinds, and sporting 4 deadly chopping blades? But the crashes will be spectacular!
  as well as the collateral damage once they leave designated roadways... airlanes?

B) screw the batteries! nobody is even looking at how much toxic waste the dead batteries will produce! Not to mention
  more coal-fired power plants to feed the charging wires.....
 
III( The answer to Monsieur Wilhelm's power dilemma is ....
       HYDROGEN POWERED fuel cells!
easily renewable, virtually non-polluting, lots of energy per weight, no messy toxic waste dump after EOL,  and look

" research led by Professor David Antonelli, the chair of physical chemistry at Lancaster University in the U.K., that could bring costs down for the technology. His team is working with a material that enables fuel tanks to be smaller, cheaper and more energy-dense than existing hydrogen fuel technologies as well as battery-powered vehicles.

“The cost of manufacturing our material is so low, and the energy density it can store is so much higher than a lithium-ion battery, that we could see hydrogen fuel cell systems that cost four times less than lithium-ion batteries, as well as providing a much longer range,” said Antonelli. The technology has been licensed to a for-profit company called Kubagen, set up by Antonelli."

And Musk calls it "stupid", so it's GOTTA be good!
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/21/musk-calls-hydrogen-fuel-cells-stupid-but-tech-may-threaten-tesla.html

https://www.energy.gov/eere/articles/5-fast-facts-about-hydrogen-and-fuel-cells

oh and FOUR)
I want one.

yhs
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Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2021, 04:22:43 am »


Jetson polo perhaps.
Flotsom and Jetson on the concourse.
Daring young men in their jaunty Jetsons.
High Times.
Jetson jousts.




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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2021, 06:32:35 am »
It'd be interesting to get one,just to experiment on it.  I know one of the three Nobel laureates responsible for the development of the lithium-ion battery. Dr. Goodenough is or was very recently supervising a team developing the liquid crystal electrolyte battery. Not only does that prevent the growth of metallic dendrites from the electrodes (meaning no short circuit, and thus no fire), but the promised energy density was as if s few years ago 3 times that of present lithium-ion batteries. Im not sure, however a factor of 3 or 4 is enough to enable all electric hover aircraft, though.


Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2021, 07:01:13 am »
It'd be interesting to get one,just to experiment on it.  I know one of the three Nobel laureates responsible for the development of the lithium-ion battery. Dr. Goodenough is or was very recently supervising a team developing the liquid crystal electrolyte battery. Not only does that prevent the growth of metallic dendrites from the electrodes (meaning no short circuit, and thus no fire), but the promised energy density was as if s few years ago 3 times that of present lithium-ion batteries. Im not sure, however a factor of 3 or 4 is enough to enable all electric hover aircraft, though.



 The vehicle  does come in kitset form. One could modify or custom cponests or extra  to one's preference. Ignore the naysayers

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/aircraft/jetson-one/

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2021, 02:18:37 pm »
Additionally, there's one issue with hydrogen fuel cells. They produce fairly low power. In a simple hybrid system where one type of energy is being converted to another (hydrogen to electricity or petroleum to electricity) you want the first generator to be able to produce a higher power than what the motors consume. Otherwise if for whatever reason battery powered dwindles, then the generator won't be able to keep the craft aloft. This is s serious issue not just for cars but arguably more important for flying craft. You can't just stop in mid air!

It'd be interesting to get one,just to experiment on it.  I know one of the three Nobel laureates responsible for the development of the lithium-ion battery. Dr. Goodenough is or was very recently supervising a team developing the liquid crystal electrolyte battery. Not only does that prevent the growth of metallic dendrites from the electrodes (meaning no short circuit, and thus no fire), but the promised energy density was as if s few years ago 3 times that of present lithium-ion batteries. Im not sure, however a factor of 3 or 4 is enough to enable all electric hover aircraft, though.



 The vehicle  does come in kitset form. One could modify or custom cponests or extra  to one's preference. Ignore the naysayers

https://www.flyingmag.com/story/aircraft/jetson-one/


Indeed it does. The vehicle is light enough to experiment with. Sadly, I don't have that kind of cash  :D
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 02:20:44 pm by J. Wilhelm »

Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2021, 02:43:04 pm »




 The vehicle  does come in kitset form. One could modify or custom cponests or extra  to one's preference. Ignore the naysayers




Indeed it does. The vehicle is light enough to experiment with. Sadly, I don't have that kind of cash  :D

If wishes were Jetsons, we would all be riding   :)

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2021, 05:30:35 pm »




 The vehicle  does come in kitset form. One could modify or custom cponests or extra  to one's preference. Ignore the naysayers




Indeed it does. The vehicle is light enough to experiment with. Sadly, I don't have that kind of cash  :D

If wishes were Jetsons, we would all be riding   :)

But you know? You can't really say that to an aeronautical engineer who can almost taste victory  ;D This looks like an ideal undergrad AC design project (ignoring legal liability  ;D).

Some thoughts on this: In the United States we have a policy, left over from the early days of  flight,after the Wright Brothers, where citizens are allowed to build experimental aircraft and fly them without any special maintenance , storage and certifications. There's a provision from the FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) for what are designated as"Experimental Aircraft." I forget what the exact percentage of the craft you must build to make the (generally light) craft experimental, but definitely the person flying the craft must build over 50 percent of it. This loads all legal liability on the shoulders of the builder / pilot, but in return you have the freedom to fly on your own. I'm assuming this is the legal framework for this company to sell the kit in the United States.

Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2021, 03:07:05 am »




 The vehicle  does come in kitset form. One could modify or custom cponests or extra  to one's preference. Ignore the naysayers




Indeed it does. The vehicle is light enough to experiment with. Sadly, I don't have that kind of cash  :D

If wishes were Jetsons, we would all be riding   :)

But you know? You can't really say that to an aeronautical engineer who can almost taste victory  ;D This looks like an ideal undergrad AC design project (ignoring legal liability  ;D).

Some thoughts on this: In the United States we have a policy, left over from the early days of  flight,after the Wright Brothers, where citizens are allowed to build experimental aircraft and fly them without any special maintenance , storage and certifications. There's a provision from the FAR (Federal Aviation Regulations) for what are designated as"Experimental Aircraft." I forget what the exact percentage of the craft you must build to make the (generally light) craft experimental, but definitely the person flying the craft must build over 50 percent of it. This loads all legal liability on the shoulders of the builder / pilot, but in return you have the freedom to fly on your own. I'm assuming this is the legal framework for this company to sell the kit in the United States.

 That legislation has interesting and intriguing permutations. It's almost a dare.  Particularly to an aeronautical engineer with idle hands...

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2021, 08:03:53 pm »

*SNIP*

 That legislation has interesting and intriguing permutations. It's almost a dare.  Particularly to an aeronautical engineer with idle hands...

That was the intention all along, and though it seems to be a reckless idea from the perspective of people outside the US, it has enabled a good part of the innovation in aeronautics in this country, and the world by consequence.

From the perspective of aircraft design, you start with a procedure called aircraft sizing. As simple as it sounds, sizing basically is little more than using the equations applicable to a free body diagram and then plugging whichever aerodynamic lift and drag relations into them plus approximate estimates from statistical charts relating to structural weight etc. Since mathematically you have an infinite number of ways to achieve a certain set of performance parameters, this is what we call an inverse design problem. You decide first what the flight mission will be (climb rate, descent rate, endurance or range, number of turns during the mission and "power climbs") for a given load (cargo, passengers), and then you approach a set of equations in iterations, until all the relevant equations don't contradict each other. The result should be a design that in theory (for traditional aluminium aircraft structures and traditional wing cross-sections) would come within 5-10% of a final design. After that you go back in detail and refine the design using exact mathematical methods for propulsion, structure, wing, aerodynamics, etc. And that takes you to the final design. Modern composite structures and supersonic jet fighters or hypersonic craft will **greatly** diverge from that 5% accuracy estimate I give.

So this is not an airplane, but rather an octa-copter, but it's basically a helicopter. Same rules apply, save for the tubular structure - you may have to come up with your own estimate of weight as function of size. Propellers are propellers, but you can increase the speed of the rotors as you need and is structurally sound for the blades. One thing I don't see is the "Propfan" technology being applied to the propellers. Since the 1970s NASA had developed high performance propellers designed to operate at very high speeds, allowing for transonic shockwaves to form over the propeller blades. This is important because it allows you to increase the rotation rate the propellers, which I suspect will be important to increase the load of this vehicle to accommodate the engine and fuel weight.

So I'd start by taking a look at the propellers and changing those to high speed designs. Increase the power requirement to produce at least 1.5 times the thrust needed for levitation. Preferably a factor of 2 - 2.5 for performance. Then pay attention to the stability of the craft. You want a computerized fly by wire system, which I suspect this vehicle has in some primitive form. This is where most research is needed.

All of this is well within the scope of an undergraduate aircraft design class. Propose it to the UT Austin aerospace engineering department. Get a team of students to look at the problem. Typically projects are handed over from one team in a given semester to another team during a following semester. Two to three semesters would be more that enough time. Maybe it could be done in one semester, but the flight control computer will require more time, I suspect, and maybe the involvement of another team.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 08:07:39 pm by J. Wilhelm »

Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2021, 04:02:15 am »

Mr Wilhem. That's a well thought out plan to obtain free funding and workers enhance the learning experience aeronautical  engineering students.

On a serious note, this type of project challenge is the incubator of future technological advances for the benefit of mankind. Who knows what it could inspire.  The sky is the limit.

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2021, 04:36:05 am »

Mr Wilhem. That's a well thought out plan to obtain free funding and workers enhance the learning experience aeronautical  engineering students.

On a serious note, this type of project challenge is the incubator of future technological advances for the benefit of mankind. Who knows what it could inspire.  The sky is the limit.

All for the students' sake  ;). But seriously, this actually happens all the time. That's one way to get a project. The other is to have an insane team leader, like me, propose s bat-manure crazy project like a VTOL passenger jet aircraft.

For example, for a class one year after our project, some old geezer retired from Sikorsky walked into the classroom and presented his idea for a single blade "half-copter" inspired by a design of mother nature. That year, the theme of the class was"human powered helicopter" and the university was supposed to participate in a national contest. The idea was that a single blade counterbalanced by a weight is mathematically the most efficient rotor that can exist. The old Sikorsky Engineer thus created one of four projects in the classroom (typically 5 student teams).

These kind of projects tend to turn into reality, when they're sane enough (not like the"half-copter" human powered craft). This hybrid powered octo-copter is as practical as it gets. Quite doable. Put the kids to work.


Hurricane Annie

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2021, 08:12:31 am »

Mr Wilhem. That's a well thought out plan to obtain free funding and workers enhance the learning experience aeronautical  engineering students.

On a serious note, this type of project challenge is the incubator of future technological advances for the benefit of mankind. Who knows what it could inspire.  The sky is the limit.

All for the students' sake  ;). But seriously, this actually happens all the time. That's one way to get a project. The other is to have an insane team leader, like me, propose s bat-manure crazy project like a VTOL passenger jet aircraft.

For example, for a class one year after our project, some old geezer retired from Sikorsky walked into the classroom and presented his idea for a single blade "half-copter" inspired by a design of mother nature. That year, the theme of the class was"human powered helicopter" and the university was supposed to participate in a national contest. The idea was that a single blade counterbalanced by a weight is mathematically the most efficient rotor that can exist. The old Sikorsky Engineer thus created one of four projects in the classroom (typically 5 student teams).

These kind of projects tend to turn into reality, when they're sane enough (not like the"half-copter" human powered craft). This hybrid powered octo-copter is as practical as it gets. Quite doable. Put the kids to work.



Harness their young imaginations before the harsh realities of the real world hit them and crash their dreams.

Flight training manual.
 

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2021, 05:40:47 pm »

Mr Wilhem. That's a well thought out plan to obtain free funding and workers enhance the learning experience aeronautical  engineering students.

On a serious note, this type of project challenge is the incubator of future technological advances for the benefit of mankind. Who knows what it could inspire.  The sky is the limit.

All for the students' sake  ;). But seriously, this actually happens all the time. That's one way to get a project. The other is to have an insane team leader, like me, propose s bat-manure crazy project like a VTOL passenger jet aircraft.

For example, for a class one year after our project, some old geezer retired from Sikorsky walked into the classroom and presented his idea for a single blade "half-copter" inspired by a design of mother nature. That year, the theme of the class was"human powered helicopter" and the university was supposed to participate in a national contest. The idea was that a single blade counterbalanced by a weight is mathematically the most efficient rotor that can exist. The old Sikorsky Engineer thus created one of four projects in the classroom (typically 5 student teams).

These kind of projects tend to turn into reality, when they're sane enough (not like the"half-copter" human powered craft). This hybrid powered octo-copter is as practical as it gets. Quite doable. Put the kids to work.



Harness their young imaginations before the harsh realities of the real world hit them and crash their dreams.

Flight training manual.
 


Ha! I remember those pulp comics. In my childhood they were translated and printed in the cheapest pulp paper possible,and sold at newsstands.

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2021, 09:04:46 pm »




Ha! I remember those pulp comics. In my childhood they were translated and printed in the cheapest pulp paper possible,and sold at newsstands.
[/quote]

 Rough paper, rough print and rough translation. Walt Disney is  currently under a rough scrutiny. Given his cartoons and live action works contained  a thinly veiled political  themes and military influence of his characters  and scripts, was old Walt "in the know"? Or did he have an innate prescience

What was behind  Scrooge's billions? Why doesn't Donald wear hs navy uniform pants?  Will computer's of the future wear tennis shoes?  When can we all  get our gyro copters? Who killed Bambi? Can Kurt Russell tell us?




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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2021, 04:47:08 am »
Here's another"pie in the sky" concept. However this British 2019 startup claim that they've flown scaled prototypes of two passenger vehicles in Dubai. The thing is, they haven't released the video. Why?

https://evtol.com/news/bellwether-first-evtol-test-flight/

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2021, 06:15:12 am »

 Can Kurt Russell tell us?





Kurt Russell is no longer available.

ask Snake Plisskenn



yhs
prof mumbles
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 08:58:53 am by Prof Marvel »

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2021, 06:51:42 am »
Here's another"pie in the sky" concept. However this British 2019 startup claim that they've flown scaled prototypes of two passenger vehicles in Dubai. The thing is, they haven't released the video. Why?

https://evtol.com/news/bellwether-first-evtol-test-flight/

 A flying Ray fish. It would be a wild ride. The Arab Emirates  are at the forefront of Aero technology. Oil is not an unlimited resource.

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Re: Jetson One. Electric aerial craft
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2021, 07:19:53 am »

 Can Kurt Russell tell us?





Kurt Russell is no longer available.



ask Sake Plisskenn



yhs
prof mumbles

On further investigation, is this coincidenence or confluence? Russel spent 6 years in the Air National Guard  in a tactical unit. After which he has had a long string of roles in influential films with a strong content of dystopia and flight vehicles.  He just might know more than he is saying...
 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Russell#:~:text=From%201969%20to%201975%2C%20Russell,then%20based%20in%20Van%20Nuys.

"From 1969 to 1975, Russell served in the California Air National Guard, and belonged to the 146th Tactical Airlift Wing, then based in Van Nuys.[9]"