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Author Topic: The Great Seaplane Revival  (Read 546 times)
Hurricane Annie
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New Zealand New Zealand



« on: December 10, 2020, 01:53:53 am »

Recent news articles are indicating a return of seaplane flight. So far it seems restricted to the Southern Hemisphere; with Australia, New Zealand and China setting up flights. Chinese military development includes swap planes in its plan.




https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/dec/08/sydney-seaplanes-to-test-canberra-flight-from-rose-bay-to-lake-burley-griffin

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/travel/2020/12/airline-to-launch-flights-between-sydney-and-canberra-using-a-seaplane.html

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a34522805/military-seaplanes/
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2020, 03:44:27 am »

Welp. We're back in the 1920's, so I guess that makes sense. Time to bring back TWA!
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Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
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New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2020, 04:06:28 am »

Welp. We're back in the 1920's, so I guess that makes sense. Time to bring back TWA!

 We had TEAL airlines in the Antipodes. With the Coral Route. Before that we had Imperial Airways from the British Empire .



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morozow
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Russian Federation Russian Federation



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« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2020, 07:53:54 pm »

well, well, well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-200

The Beriev Be-200 Altair (Russian: Бериев Бе-200) is a utility amphibious aircraft designed and built by the Beriev Aircraft Company. Marketed as being designed for fire fighting, search and rescue, maritime patrol, cargo, and passenger transportation, it has a capacity of 12,000 litres (3,200 US gal) of water, or up to 72 passengers.




And a bit of history http://www.beriev.com/rus/core.html
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Sorry for the errors, rudeness and stupidity. It's not me, this online translator. Really convenient?
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2020, 07:59:42 pm »

well, well, well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-200

The Beriev Be-200 Altair (Russian: Бериев Бе-200) is a utility amphibious aircraft designed and built by the Beriev Aircraft Company. Marketed as being designed for fire fighting, search and rescue, maritime patrol, cargo, and passenger transportation, it has a capacity of 12,000 litres (3,200 US gal) of water, or up to 72 passengers.




And a bit of history http://www.beriev.com/rus/core.html


Nice design. High wing, T-tail. Reminds me of my aircraft design project in college. Curious feature: it seems to have two nozzles sticking out from under the wing root. I wonder if these are auxiliary power units. If so, they are located correctly for assisted Short Takeoff procedures.


This is my vintage 1996 aircraft design class project for a VTOL /STOL passenger aircraft, code named "Zarquon"

« Last Edit: December 11, 2020, 08:51:16 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
morozow
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« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2020, 08:59:45 pm »

beautiful drawing. Aesthetics. at least hang it on the wall.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2020, 12:29:03 am »

beautiful drawing. Aesthetics. at least hang it on the wall.
Thank you! That was a rush job. Before a presentation, the computer stopped printing, so I had to do a sketch with pencil and paper  Grin The wing root is way off center (should be forward, more like the Be-200, because the aircraft fuselage we used as a base was the British BAC-111 short range jet  Grin We had not decided on the wing location yet.  Grin



Errata: Zarquon's fuselage is based on the Avro / BAe 146, not the BAC 111
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 07:22:17 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2020, 12:43:46 am »

beautiful drawing. Aesthetics. at least hang it on the wall.
Thank you! That was a rush job. Before a presentation, the computer stopped printing, so I had to do a sketch with pencil and paper  Grin The wing root is way off center (should be forward, more like the Be-200, because the aircraft fuselage we used as a base was the British BAC-111 short range jet  Grin We had not decided on the wing location yet.  Grin

Would a "swing wing" Seaplane be viable?
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2020, 06:58:11 am »

beautiful drawing. Aesthetics. at least hang it on the wall.
Thank you! That was a rush job. Before a presentation, the computer stopped printing, so I had to do a sketch with pencil and paper  Grin The wing root is way off center (should be forward, more like the Be-200, because the aircraft fuselage we used as a base was the British BAC-111 short range jet  Grin We had not decided on the wing location yet.  Grin

Would a "swing wing" Seaplane be viable?

Depends which type of "swing" you mean (sorry, Jazz Era joke there). Swing wings' primary purpose is to reduce drag due to compressibility effects in high speed situations (wing sweep angle). It's useful, but not very helpful for subsonic craft because the change of lift to drag ratio won't change too much for a relatively slow passenger jet with fuel efficient engines (Mach 0.7-0.8 ). The savings due to the swing wing are more pronounced for "high-subsonic" (Mach 0.8-0.9) aircraft like the early passenger jets (eg Convair 880, Boeing 707), where low efficiency engines prefer to fly faster. Even then you have to take into account the weight of the wing sweep mechanism - its heavy, and never worth the effort. It's easier just to choose a fixed sweep angle like the Boeing 727 which has a pronounced rake (believe it or not chosen for aesthetic reasons as a marketing ploy!! True story !)

But in essence it could be done, it's just not an impressive improvement for the weight that you're adding. It's easier to add Krueger flaps and high lift devices like extendable and segmented Fowler flaps and such.

For supersonic aircraft, on the other hand, the benefits of the swing wing will be much greater, by allowing the plane to operate efficiently in supersonic flight as a Delta wing as well as subsonic flight as a straight wing... But this is usually done only by a handful of military gets like the Vietnam Era General Dynamics F-111(a very cool plane, useful mostly as a low altitude bomber). The weight of the mechanism is still significant, though.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2020, 07:05:23 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
*****
New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2020, 04:36:31 pm »

well, well, well

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-200

The Beriev Be-200 Altair (Russian: Бериев Бе-200) is a utility amphibious aircraft designed and built by the Beriev Aircraft Company. Marketed as being designed for fire fighting, search and rescue, maritime patrol, cargo, and passenger transportation, it has a capacity of 12,000 litres (3,200 US gal) of water, or up to 72 passengers.




And a bit of history http://www.beriev.com/rus/core.html


 I've only ever flown in the  in smaller sea planes. Which I greatly enjoyed. A larger craft  would be quite an experience on take off and landing
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von Corax
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« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2020, 05:00:45 pm »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561
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The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5838 km from Reading
Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
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New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2020, 10:16:09 am »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561

 That looks like fun
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chironex
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The typing jellyfish monster


« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2020, 12:41:46 pm »

Seaplanes have never gone away, and according to the pics in this thread, neither did flying-boats either.


Shuttle to Orpheus Island Resort.

The Red Baron.

Air Whitsunday

Caravan (from Textron Aviation site, owners of Cessna and Beechcraft brands)

It has its wins and its fails: http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/424/language/en-CA/Sweet-Dreams-and-Nightmares.aspx
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 12:44:33 pm by chironex » Logged

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QUEENSLAND RAIL NOT FOR SALE!!!!!!
von Corax
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2020, 03:11:42 pm »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561

 That looks like fun
Canada has the world's largest fleet of water bombers, and access to the waters of Lake Erie. Tremble before us.
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Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
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New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2020, 11:51:21 pm »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561

 That looks like fun
Canada has the world's largest fleet of water bombers, and access to the waters of Lake Erie. Tremble before us.

 There is that Russian Professors theory .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123051100709638419



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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2020, 04:34:19 pm »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561

 That looks like fun
Canada has the world's largest fleet of water bombers, and access to the waters of Lake Erie. Tremble before us.

 There is that Russian Professors theory .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123051100709638419





That map is soooo wrong on so many counts. It basically ignored historical expansion of the territory. Culturally it's incorrect. It's basically an arbitrary partition based on cardinal directions. He's mixing southern and northern states on the East coast and mixing Southern-friendly states in the west with the West Coast which also are culturally different. Texas is a dual Deep South and Southwest state with a unique history - the ideological intersection between Arizona and New Mexico and the Deep South (eg Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia).New Mexico and Arizona go together with Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Montana - the typical "West" of the movies. California is almost two different states divided north and south, but goes better with Washington State and Oregon (West Coast). The mid-west is what foreigners would call '"Western Noth East,  just under the Great Lakes. Washington DC, geographically the center of the East Coast, is sandwiched between Virginia and Maryland, with Virginia being strongly Southern (which made the Civil War interesting). North and South Carolina are also very southern "Atlantic South, so they will not go at all with New York State or any of the northeastern states and New England.

Reminder: no present day politics please. Otherwise you may discuss 19th century politics and warfare without issue.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 04:49:40 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
*****
New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2020, 12:45:30 am »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561

 That looks like fun
Canada has the world's largest fleet of water bombers, and access to the waters of Lake Erie. Tremble before us.

 There is that Russian Professors theory .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123051100709638419





That map is soooo wrong on so many counts. It basically ignored historical expansion of the territory. Culturally it's incorrect. It's basically an arbitrary partition based on cardinal directions. He's mixing southern and northern states on the East coast and mixing Southern-friendly states in the west with the West Coast which also are culturally different. Texas is a dual Deep South and Southwest state with a unique history - the ideological intersection between Arizona and New Mexico and the Deep South (eg Mississippi, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia).New Mexico and Arizona go together with Nevada, Utah, Colorado, Montana - the typical "West" of the movies. California is almost two different states divided north and south, but goes better with Washington State and Oregon (West Coast). The mid-west is what foreigners would call '"Western Noth East,  just under the Great Lakes. Washington DC, geographically the center of the East Coast, is sandwiched between Virginia and Maryland, with Virginia being strongly Southern (which made the Civil War interesting). North and South Carolina are also very southern "Atlantic South, so they will not go at all with New York State or any of the northeastern states and New England.

Reminder: no present day politics please. Otherwise you may discuss 19th century politics and warfare without issue.

My post was tongue in cheek in response to the Canadian's idle threats. The map had pretty colours. I will only add that like all such willd, obscure and dubious predictions , the time has long been and gone without incident. There are no recent updates on said professor .
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2020, 07:43:27 am »

My post was tongue in cheek in response to the Canadian's idle threats. The map had pretty colours. I will only add that like all such willd, obscure and dubious predictions , the time has long been and gone without incident. There are no recent updates on said professor .

Yeah I realized it after replying, but there's too many people making predictions now, and I didn't know if the subject of the thread was suddenly changed (it happens).
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Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
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New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2021, 01:31:34 am »

My post was tongue in cheek in response to the Canadian's idle threats. The map had pretty colours. I will only add that like all such willd, obscure and dubious predictions , the time has long been and gone without incident. There are no recent updates on said professor .

Yeah I realized it after replying, but there's too many people making predictions now, and I didn't know if the subject of the thread was suddenly changed (it happens).

 Brass Goggles members going off on a random tangent? Perish the thought !
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Banfili
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Australia Australia



« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2021, 01:54:53 pm »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561

 That looks like fun
Canada has the world's largest fleet of water bombers, and access to the waters of Lake Erie. Tremble before us.

And Australia thanks you for the loan of them in your off-season!
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Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
*****
New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2021, 07:27:46 am »

The Canadair/Bombardier/Viking CL-215T/CL-415 Super Scooper water bomber is currently in service in 11 countries. Canadian operators collectively fly 64 of these birds, and the total worldwide is 164 units.


By Maarten Visser - Wikimedia commons, CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=76331722


By Horticultural marxist - Own work, CC BY-SA 4.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=71114561

 That looks like fun
Canada has the world's largest fleet of water bombers, and access to the waters of Lake Erie. Tremble before us.

And Australia thanks you for the loan of them in your off-season!

 It's an Antipodes thing. Other countries just don't understand. N.Z. and Australia  are fabulously suited to water going planes . We are truly blessed
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