Covid-19 facts, fallacies, and prepardness

[Prof Marvel]

Covid-19

facts, fallacies, and prepardness

FIRST ....  get the FACTS and  IGNORE the FUD  (fear uncertainty and doubt)

1) Covid-19 is INCREDIBLY DEADLY

- it is no more deadly than the various Influenzas.
- The problem is it is new and thus not "well understood"
- If one gets symptoms of a bad cold or flu, watch for fever.
- If the fever goes over ~ 102-103 for long, see the Medics. many have call-in lines.
- If caught early and the symptoms are treated, and keep it from turning into pnuemonia,
   recovery is like over 95%


1) stores are running out of hand sanitizer

- Hand sanitize ris , well, "ok"
- 70% Isopropyl Alcohol is better than that, It's cheap, tests have shown it kills covid, noro, and inlfuenza in less than 5 seconds.

2) I can't get a mask at my drug store, I'm gonna die!

- No you won't,
- wash your hands A LOT. DO NOT touch your eyes, mouth or face.
- stay further than 2 meters from anyone coughing or sneezing.
- go get some industrial N95 dust masks from the big box hardware store. IT IS THE SAME MASK
     the best ones have a sort of flexible seal for around your face.

3) I need a hundred masks!
- No you don't
  a single N95 dust respirator will last more than 30 days. Tests in Dehli, India (worlds most polluted air)
    show these basic dust respirators last longer than 30 days ( even without washing them - btw don't wash them)
    and users only throw them out becasue they get grungy in the heat and humidity.

4) I can't get any mask i'ma gonna die
- make your own, yes they work:
    https://mustsharenews.com/cloth-face-mask/

Regarding Masks, when you ACTUALLY need one -
  PROPER FIT is essential - gaps around the cheeks or eyes let crap in when you breath in.
  the kind with an exhaust valve is best, it won't puff out around the cheeks or eyes.
  If you can't get a good tight fit, use surgical tape, duct tape, or masking tape to seal the edges.

5) Just like a cold or flu, the corona spreads via airborn droplets, or touching, or on surfaces.
   - don't shake hands, do an elbow bump or a japanese bow
   - wear disposable cotton gloves, it offers some protection but more importantly reminds you
       NOT TO TOUCH YOUR FACE
   - wear disposable latex or vinyl gloves if you really need to.
   - get a dozen bottles of 70% isopopyl alcohol and swab down YOUR HANDS, telephones ( yes your cellphone too, but watch the screen)
       your car insterior, doors, doorknobs, keyboards, work surfaces, kitchen counters, the entire bathroom, etc...

6) Pay Attention! watch yourself & your "others" for cold-like symptoms, even pets. They already found dogs can get it.

7) Nothing is coming from China! the stores will run out of ( fill in the blank)
   - we all lived for thousands of years before "just in time" deliver of "shit from china" we'll manage
   - DO stock up on "some" TP  and kleenex.
   - some people are buying up everything and "I am told" shipping TP & masks & etc to family in asia - just more panic.
  

I CAN"T GET TP IMA GONNA DIE
   - no , you won't
   - if there is NO TP available use paper substitutes - newspaper, phonebook pages, etc
   - if theres no paper, use a wet washcloth and wash it out afterwards. give each family member their own.

9) FOOD
   - stock up now, as much as you can reasonably afford, a little at a time in case you get sick and can't leave home.
   - during an illness, soup is good food. canned soup is handy when your too sick to cook
   - instant ramen in a cup is cheap and easy
   - ANY pasta is cheap and easy
   - canned meat can save your butt. Contrary to popular belief, SPAM is actually pretty good- it is compressed
        leftover shreds of good cuts of pork. Get the Low Sodium kind. Bacon flavor is GREAT!
   - canned chicken canned tuna, and canned beef, keep forever, are also great and can be reasonabley priced
   - anything canned with tomato is high in acid and can go bad in a few years or eat thru the can...
   - old cans of food? look for bulged lids and/or bottoms - then throw it out.

   - rice is cheap and can keep forever, but you need to watch for bugs. Best thing is to get a 20# or 50# bag and drop a
      piece of dry ice the size of a paperback book into the middle, then put it in a plastic bucket with a lid that seals. The CO2
      either kills bugs/eggs or makes them go totally dormant.
   - dried beans are cheap and can keep forever. see above
  
   - Complete Proteins:
       Corn, Beans, and Squash - the Native Americans call it The Three Sisters
       Rice and Beans  - the staple worldwide!

10) Water
   your city water is probably pretty damn good. Some of us use a carbon filter on the tap or built into a whole house
   filter.

   fill bottles with water to keep on hand in case  something happens to the city water  - I like to use the rule of thumb
         2 gallons per person per day for 30-60 days.
   that offers some for cooking and a little for washing.

   If you can't afford bottled water, get a carbon filter, "just in case" , and
   Remember, if you HAVE flowing water, even if a little icky, run it thru a charcoal filter and boiling it kills everything.

11) Protection
    Trust me on this. It's not the Apocalypse.
    - There will be no Mongol Hordes
    - No Zombie Mobs
    - No ravaging mobs of "have nots" roaming to break into your house for food....

   Just don't advertise, keep a low profile, lock your doors, etc

If there IS a riot, such as the craziness in UK several years ago, stay friendly with neighbors, practise with whatever ya got
and keep it handy. An  an ash can lid is a great shield, and A short sharp shovel can work wonders and... As can an
antique muzzleloading 8 bore double barrel...
mumble mumble and (can't mention it here).

I myself will help/feed anyone I can who
   - sincerely needs it
   - asks
You might be amazed at how befriending someone by feeding them can lead to wonderful things and
unexpected help out of the blue...

OTOH, If someone tries to break in, they better hope they meet me first, because , well, if they
meet Mrs marvel first there will only be a big red gelatinous mess that I will have to clean up. I swear
she has "Lions Roar" and can make a miscreant complete explode just with her voice....

and I build muzzleloading rifles, shotguns, revolvers, bowie knives, axes, tomahawks, gurka kukris, katanas, wakizahis,
bolos, machetes, throwing knives, war bows and arrows, crossbows, trebuchets,  clocks, kitchen ware, car parts, furniture, radios,
cameras, ....  did I say that out loud?

yhs
prof marvel

[Prof Marvel]

oopsy double tap

[Banfili]

Nice, comprehensive list, Prof - more-or-less just the things I have been telling anyone who will listen. It's not going to last forever, so if you live in a city or heavily populated or even moderately populated area, grab your favourite staples, and, if necessary, stay home, stay in and stay safe.

[Prof Marvel]

Thanks my Dear Banfili

and the US AARP  ( old folks society) just sent me a nice link for good info

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronavirus-facts.html

and I just got emails from many of the fine brick and mortor stores I habituate, telling us how they are
following CDC guidlines and CLEANING AND SANITIZING LIKE MANIACS!

yhs
prof marvel

[Banfili]

Thanks my Dear Banfili

and the US AARP  ( old folks society) just sent me a nice link for good info

https://www.aarp.org/health/conditions-treatments/info-2020/coronavirus-facts.html

and I just got emails from many of the fine brick and mortor stores I habituate, telling us how they are
following CDC guidelines and CLEANING AND SANITIZING LIKE MANIACS!
prof marvel

The Victorian State Seniors organisation emailed out a leaflet with pretty much the same guidelines and protocols - I got one from them, and one today from a friend who though I might find it interesting.

I went into town to the big supermarket/s today, mainly for pet supplies and cat litter (not very good ones available locally) - the Woolies supermarket has been providing trolley handle sanitising wipes for quite some time, but today the folks who gather up the  trolleys from outside were wiping down the handles as they were being racked. There were also a few security personnel floating around, which I hadn't seen before. I was chatting with one about TP and the run on supplies - she said it didn't matter this morning because there's wasn't any available because the delivery trucks hadn't arrived yet! The ALDI next door had some, so I did buy an 8 pack, but that was because it was on my list!

I see that staying home has a new name - “social distancing”! So that's what I have been doing all these years - I thought it was the Aspergers!!

[von Corax]

I see that staying home has a new name - “social distancing”! So that's what I have been doing all these years - I thought it was the Aspergers!!

[Deimos]

I see that staying home has a new name - “social distancing”! So that's what I have been doing all these years - I thought it was the Aspergers!!

Yep...negative aspects aside, this is an introvert's dream....(my name is Marie, and I am an introvert )

[Banfili]

I see that staying home has a new name - “social distancing”! So that's what I have been doing all these years - I thought it was the Aspergers!!

Yep...negative aspects aside, this is an introvert's dream....(my name is Marie, and I am an introvert )

Is there a 12 Steps plan?

[Deimos]

SNIP
Yep...negative aspects aside, this is an introvert's dream....(my name is Marie, and I am an introvert )

Is there a 12 Steps plan?

HA-HA...if there is I'm not doing it.
I like being an introvert (not that one has a choice about it)....lots of hidden strengths in it.

Not to hijack this thread (except that is exactly what I'm doing) here is some "Introvert Humour"

Introvert Humour

Sometimes just seeing people post photos of going out on the weekends makes me tired.

My friend is giving me the silent treatment. Joke's on her (or him).

A knock, knock joke for introverts: Knock, knock. *nobody answers* Knock, knock. *nobody answers* Knock, knock. *nobody answers*

Home is where the introvert is.

I bet the quiet game was created by introverted parents with extroverted kids.

Go out and shop on Black Friday? Hahaha...no.

If I don't answer your phone call, there is a 90% chance I stared at the phone until it stopped ringing.

So what's the deal with extroverts? I mean, do they come with an off button, or what?

Introvert Haiku:
You are way too loud
My brain is about to break
I must run away

A stimulating conversation that delves into topics of depth and substance is one time in which you will actually hear me talk quite a bit.

Introvert Yoda: “Stop talking, you must.”  

[Prof Marvel]

Not to hijack this thread (except that is exactly what I'm doing) here is some "Introvert Humour"

Feel Free to do so!

Introvert Humour

So what's the deal with extroverts? I mean, do they come with an off button, or what?

Well, yes there is, but it's a one-way switch, and using it really increases the Karmic Burden!

Introvert Yoda: “Stop talking, you must.”  

"Or help you I will not!"

[Synistor 303]

Just made a big batch of steak and kidney for pie and started to wonder if steak and kidney pudding might be better. What is the consensus?

Also did beef jaffna and beef taco mix (chilli?), so if you are repulsed by kidney, there is an alternative.

Two weeks at home would be a blissful doddle. I did enjoy the introvert humour - but really, isn't that just being normal?

[Deimos]

....I did enjoy the introvert humour - but really, isn't that just being normal?

For an introvert, yes, it's perfectly normal.
But I can't tell you the number of  people I know:
Who cannot not answer their phone when it rings/buzzes/whatever.
Who cannot be by themselves and be quiet for more than 15 minutes (if that).

[Synistor 303]

I have a phone - I keep it in my handbag turned off. That way the battery is charged when I need to use it, like that time in 2018! I hate answering the phone - it just means someone wants me to do something I don't want to do...

[Lazaras]

FUD I'm submitting to the wider council:

I live in a Red heavy segment of the country and i keep hearing how Covid19 is being overhyped by media being a democrat plot because election year.

I'm just... words fail me. Otherwise intelligent people spouting that.

[Banfili]

FUD I'm submitting to the wider council:

I live in a Red heavy segment of the country and i keep hearing how Covid19 is being overhyped by media being a democrat plot because election year.

I'm just... words fail me. Otherwise intelligent people spouting that.

I'm just waiting to hear ' "Chinese Communist Plot" to destroy the economies of the West, so that they can take over what they don't own already!'

[Prof Marvel]

My Dear Lazarus - FUD for sure

Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt

The most common tactic used when ta divisive mind cannot grasp facts and insists on Us vs Them in all circumstances.

NOW is the time to pull together, cooperate, and help each other.
Not play blame games and divisiveness/shunning/attacks .

yhs
prof marvel

[J. Wilhelm]

I'll just limit my response to a few points.

1. Information. It's much better to get information from medical sources and organizations. Media will skew information badly. No, the pandemic is not a giant conspiracy for big pharma; entire economies, starting with China, are tanking by up to trillions potentially, to make what, à couple of 100 billions for the benefit of a few western companies? To make politicians look bad? On the other hand, no, the pandemic is not the end of civilization. The numbers will stabilize below the mortality rates (3% globally) we have registered, partly because not everyone affected has recovered, partly because the virus itself is mutating, at least once outside of China, and evolution dictates that the virus will become less lethal over time (killing a host is not convenient for the virus, but rather spreading as much as possible). Also as the fraction of infected people rises, the fraction of resistance to thevvirus in a population will too - in other words, inoculation leads to natural collective resistance.

2.I can't agree with the idea that COVID 19 is "just a flu" it is both more infectious and more lethal than the flu. This time older people are affected and not the young, as opposed to the Spanish Flu. Oddly enough the reason why is similar:differences in the fundamental nature of the immune system between young and adult immune systems. Naturally the sick and weak are more susceptible, but that's not unexpected. The body's immune system becomes more sophisticated as you grow older. Unfortunately that also means that the immune responses (which include inflammation) are more severe as you grow older. It turns out that at some point duringthe  infection the body's own immune system begins to attack healthy tissue along with infected tissue. This doesn't happen in children and young people who have a less developed immune system. The virus does whatever it wants to do in the body of a child - including much harm, but at least the child's immune system doesn't add to the problem by attacking new tissue that is trying to repair the harm done by the virus. When that happens in adults, the lungs can't repair themselves, and the process will spread to other organs putting the body in a real crisis. Above 50 years of age marks the statistical increase in danger for adults. The number of cases that require hospitalization is also much higher than those with the flu. Again, mostly male, older adults are at risk.

3 The charts in this link below give you and idea of what we know about COVID 19
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/3/12/21172040/coronavirus-covid-19-virus-charts

4.The biggest problem is the speed at which the virus spreads. For uncontrolled expansion (no quarantines or isolation of population centers) you see a doubling of infection cases per month, and that's the ones we can detect, since many people have only mild to no symptoms. The problem with that is that health care systems quickly become overwhelmed. Every country will have different capabilities, but Italy is not a third world country and they have one of the better systems around, and they're being overwhelmed now because of the exponential rate of cases they see. The idea of containment now has gone past trying to stop its spread and instead trying to slow it down to allow health care systems to cope with the much greater rate of patients they see. COVID 19 is now officially a pandemic. It's present in every continent except for Antarctica.

5 We are running out of hand sanitizers, alcohol products and hand wipes. In the US there's a real shortage. People are buying hand sanitizer and reselling to Chinese buyers. I work at a job where we really need hand sanitizers and gloves, and right now I'm having to just wash my hands and every now and then wring my hands with surface cleaner because I can't find any wipes or sanitizer anywhere. People have the idea that only alcohol kills COVID 19. Not true. Alcohol is the least noxious substance you can put on your hands and face that will still kill a virus as long as the alcohol solution is at least 70% in concentration or higher. But people forget that coronaviruses are an old family of virus that we've known for a long time. Many household products already underneath your kitchen counter will kill COVID 19. Don't use hand sanitizer to clean counters, tables, dogs, cats or even to wash your car. Drinking ethanol will not kill the virus inside you. The things people are doing right now with hand sanitizers and wipeys are absolutely ridiculous. Lysol, Clorox, and Pinesol, and many other brands of surface cleaners are much stronger than alcohol and can do a much better job. You may use the hand wipes for your hands, maybe your face, and your smartphone, but everything else can be cleaned better with other things.

6.You are young. You know statistically you're not going to die. Good for you, I'm glad. Now, as someone online wrote - please stop killing people!! This time it'd be good if you could stay at home if you get sick. They way it's looking right now a majority of Americans will have to stay at home if they get sick, because even testing is impossible without health insurance for many.

7. Stopping people movement regionally is better and more realistic if you want to "flatten" the exponential curve. Whether we in America can muster the will China showed in controlling population movement remains to be seen, but you can see what Italy had to do.

8. We just need to be more mindful. If not for ourselves, then for our neighbors.

That is all.

[rovingjack]

I work retail, and have just had the most insane day. This was crazier than black friday or the week before x-mas. we've been out of hand sanitizer for over a week, and rubbing alcohol for the last 4 or so days. We've not had medical masks. Recent out of clorox and lysol wipes and sprays. and Today... every frikkin roll of toilet paper within an hour drive of our store is now gone. I personally sold hundreds of four packs today. We nearly doubled our daily profits from toilet paper sales. We are now completely out.

people are really going insane. There were people actually fighting physically over the last toilet paper in the local walmart.

what crazy panicky BS will the next week bring?

[J. Wilhelm]

I work retail, and have just had the most insane day. This was crazier than black friday or the week before x-mas. we've been out of hand sanitizer for over a week, and rubbing alcohol for the last 4 or so days. We've not had medical masks. Recent out of clorox and lysol wipes and sprays. and Today... every frikkin roll of toilet paper within an hour drive of our store is now gone. I personally sold hundreds of four packs today. We nearly doubled our daily profits from toilet paper sales. We are now completely out.

people are really going insane. There were people actually fighting physically over the last toilet paper in the local walmart.

what crazy panicky BS will the next week bring?

Lack of leadership and information will do this. People need accurate, truthful, helpful information and a strong organization backing it up. Otherwise you get pandemonium.

Pandemonium is not guaranteed, however. Sometimes people react adequately, but granted, it is the exception to the rule. The 1985 (and toaà lesser extent 2017) earthquakes in Mexico City show you what happens when people self organize in a positive when the government is not able to react to a disaster.

[MWBailey]

A few points about masks, since the internet and especially Facebook is rife right now with some of the most ridiculously inane  factoids about personal masking.

I have a unique perspective on this issue, as I have for many years suffered from a degree of reaction to pollen and particulates that necessitates the use of some kind of mask to mitigate the literal clouds of the stuff that I in my personal situation am forced to endure. I have made many types of masks and bought many commercial masks, and found many that quite simply do not work at all for keeping dust or contagion from the wearer. Some of those are:
1. masks that are purpose-designed, not to keep particulates and germs out, but rather to keep a person's own breath, and the stuff that their body pollutes it with, in. This type includes
A. Tie-on or elastic surgical masks
B. Tie-on or elastic anticontagion masks (those rectangular things that look like surgical masks but in fact are not).
C. Those Fashionable, pretty-colored  things that you see actresses and supermodels wearing oh-so-smugly (like in that Ultra Violet movie, for example; that girl in the terminal wearing that close-fitting catsuit and the purple facemask)
D. Bandannas, scarves, any cloth that covers the mouth and nose but is not sealed at the top in the nose area below the eyes. Sorry for those who like them,  But this includes the vaunted Buff USA brand of gaiter, and those oh-so-hip neoprene and such  lower-face masks, unless the upper edge of the cover is anchored or sealed in some way.
D.Common DIY-targeted dust masks (sorry, but it's true)

All o of the above suffer from the same general fatal flaw, though some arrive there by slightly different roads. They quite simply

Leak.
Like.
Sieves.

I realize that many will say I couldn't possibly be serious or correct, but the quite simple matter is that the first three were and are designed to keep one from breathing one's contagion all over one's fellows. They ARE NOT designed to keep OUT contagion or anything else. Bandannas, Scarves, and Buffs share one really bad flaw with the first three types of masks: The top edge, which crosses the face just under the eyes, over the upper cheekbones, and over the nose, remains open and lets all hell, so to speak, flow in unabated. "But wait!" you say. "I know for a fact that the surgical masks have a metal strip or a wire that you can bend to conform to the curves of your face, which means it DOES seal everything out!! Ha-ha! You're such a fool, Bailey!"

Sorry, but while many surgical and similar masks do infact have such a wire or strip, it does not give and take like a soft rubber or foam strip would. thus, the strip in fact causes gaps to appear between the mask and one's skin.

Remember, I've tried all of these and weeded out the ones that don't work. If they don't work while I'm out in the particulates, I get bad hayfever that can literally render me bedbound for a few days. So I know what I'm talking about.

The molded fibre dust masks? Well, they help somewhat (as long as you just sort of sit quietly or move slowly), but they suffer the same flaw mentioned above, plus one other that people tend to not expect and often deny even when the evidence is literally right in front of them. Namely, the masks react to the act of breathing. To make a long explanation short, every puff of air that you breathe out that is faster than a slow burn basically puffs the mask away from your face, and outside air gets in. In the case of the clouds of pollen and dust that I have to put up with when mowing or doing repairs outdoors, they basically concentrate the dust within the mask, instead of filtering it out, because, sorry, but unless you're an athletic housebuilder or some such who doesn't breathe hard when hand sawing, or shoving a mower around the yard,  working is going to cause you to breathe hard. In gasps and blown-out breaths. For many of us on this forum, just walking briskly in a a mall causes heavier than usual breathing (Cmon, admit it). I hear there are now versions that come with a built-in respirator valve that prevents that, but I have yet to see one in a store locally, and I don't order from the internet.

Further, and this is where this is going to be a bit disappointing,

NO MASK SEALS OUT EVERYTHING.

Something always gets in. All you can really hope for is to keep enough crud out to keep yourself from getting immediately sick.

What DOES work for me?
1.Surprisingly, a UV-High Buff. No, I'm not contradicting myself. UV high is made to be thicker than the average regular Buff. When I wear a UV High Buff, and anchor the top edge under a pair of motorcycle goggles, the resulting blockage around the goggles' eye seals, and the Buff's snug fit around my neck, keeps almost all of the particulates out. What little does get in comes in through the teeny little vents in the metal lens frames that you get in most or all metal-and-leather goggles. The amount that gets though, though, is so minuscule that i often have no reaction at all to it, unless I'm in the thick of a huge cloud of pollen or sawdust or dirt for several minutes or hours (usually that doesn't happen very often). Again, though, bear in mind that such a leak may very well let in the C virus. Like I said, nothing ever completely seals everything out. Not even in Hazmat suits.*

2. Purpose-made anti-germ and anti-mold masks. Yes, I'm talking about those things with the huge rectangular or round cartridges, that make you sound like a hyperventilating Sith Lord. They're big, and ridiculous-looking, but they work better than anything else I've tried. I don't often use one, though, because I quite simply can't afford one.

Given all of the above, you are, or at least I am, in my opinion, better off not plunging into the Great Unwashed. Stay the Heck home.
_________________________________________
*Forgot to mention that just regular sunglasses don't have a rubber or leather seal around the eyepieces, which means that you can't use those for the goggles withoout modifying them.

[Sir Henry]

I realize that many will say I couldn't possibly be serious or correct, but the quite simple matter is that the first three were and are designed to keep one from breathing one's contagion all over one's fellows.

And so are still worth wearing if you can't find anything better. Stopping oneself from spreading it (especially in the contagious, pre-symptom phase) is a key part of the Delay Strategy.

[Banfili]

people are really going insane. There were people actually fighting physically over the last toilet paper in the local walmart.
what crazy panicky BS will the next week bring?

A few days ago we had here in Australia two women fighting over a pack of toilet paper - one woman tried to grab a pack from the trolley of the other woman, who had loaded up the last packs - she had multiple packs, more than the average family would use in 6 months!

Both women were charged with 'Affray', and will go to court - no doubt about guilt, as the CCTV caught the whole 'battle'!

This is madness!

[Sir Henry]

Both women were charged with 'Affray', and will go to court - no doubt about guilt, as the CCTV caught the whole 'battle'!

"Sorry your Honour, I can't come to court - I'm self-isolating."

[MWBailey]

I realize that many will say I couldn't possibly be serious or correct, but the quite simple matter is that the first three were and are designed to keep one from breathing one's contagion all over one's fellows.

And so are still worth wearing if you can't find anything better. Stopping oneself from spreading it (especially in the contagious, pre-symptom phase) is a key part of the Delay Strategy.

Never said it wasn't. Just said that they won't stop the virus from being inhaled by the wearer. At all.

[Banfili]

Both women were charged with 'Affray', and will go to court - no doubt about guilt, as the CCTV caught the whole 'battle'!

"Sorry your Honour, I can't come to court - I'm self-isolating."

By video, if necessary!