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Author Topic: Can Steampunk Be Dirty?  (Read 562 times)
chicar
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Chicar556
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« on: March 16, 2019, 03:24:07 am »

The Rat Rod Thread have me requestioning my vision of the steampunk esthetic. You see i love my steampunk dirty and grungy. I love it focused on the grimmest part of early industrialisation and the proletarian pov of it. It is pretty much the punk in steampunk for me. The same way cyberpunk is about the bad side of information technologies, steampunk is about the bad side of industry. But i have been told that might be dieselpunk under a other name. It might have to do with the fact my steampunk timeline end in 1919 and no in 1914 like many others.And perhaps also because i believe in steampunk future .

Here Some Examples Of What I Consider To Be Dirty Dieselpunk .

https://youtu.be/1xeis94QNB0
https://youtu.be/IRsFc2gguEg
https://youtu.be/gh8Esjw-R4s
https://youtu.be/-GmynaiE1i4
https://youtu.be/o-sp68GjYL0
https://youtu.be/xHTfOEC7sZU
https://youtu.be/q6MVLxyQAZI
https://youtu.be/aSPmtX5KzEw
https://youtu.be/Qwkj59gX-fA
https://youtu.be/DJNT7C61NrE
https://youtu.be/_zXKtfKnfT8

On the other hand i love my dieselpunk clean, streamlined , modernist and stylised like this:
https://youtu.be/ACLvVpn_8vU
https://youtu.be/T2Dj6ktPU5c
https://youtu.be/egvFBZFi0vY
https://youtu.be/XFYWazblaUA
https://youtu.be/-UaGUdNJdRQ
https://youtu.be/cY3ypQD6p2s

So, can steampunk be dirty ?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 04:04:57 am by chicar » Logged

The word pagan came from paganus , who mean peasant . Its was a way to significate than christianism was the religion of the elite and paganism the one of the savage worker class.

''Trickster shows us how we trick OURSELVES. Her rampant curiosity backfires, but, then, something NEW is discovered (though usually not what She expected)! This is where creativity comes from—experiment, do something different, maybe even something forbidden, and voila! A breakthrough occurs! Ha! Ha! We are released! The world is created anew! Do something backwards, break your own traditions, the barrier breaks; destroy the world as you know it, let the new in.''
Extract of the Dreamflesh article ''Path of The Sacred Clown''
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 04:48:23 am »



 That gives me some viewing ideas.  Not every movie needs swearing or graphic scenes
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von Corax
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 05:00:37 pm »

At its best, IMHO, Steam is shiny on top and greasy underneath. Disagree if you will, but if you don't understand this viewpoint you've never stood next to a working steam locomotive, traction engine or stationary engine.

Ultimately, though, I don't think either Steam or Diesel can be defined by grime or shine.
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Kensington Locke
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 05:25:00 pm »

The Rat Rod Thread have me requestioning my vision of the steampunk esthetic. You see i love my steampunk dirty and grungy. I love it focused on the grimmest part of early industrialisation and the proletarian pov of it. It is pretty much the punk in steampunk for me. The same way cyberpunk is about the bad side of information technologies, steampunk is about the bad side of industry. But i have been told that might be dieselpunk under a other name. It might have to do with the fact my steampunk timeline end in 1919 and no in 1914 like many others.And perhaps also because i believe in steampunk future .

Here Some Examples Of What I Consider To Be Dirty Dieselpunk .

https://youtu.be/1xeis94QNB0
https://youtu.be/IRsFc2gguEg
https://youtu.be/gh8Esjw-R4s
https://youtu.be/-GmynaiE1i4
https://youtu.be/o-sp68GjYL0
https://youtu.be/xHTfOEC7sZU
https://youtu.be/q6MVLxyQAZI
https://youtu.be/aSPmtX5KzEw
https://youtu.be/Qwkj59gX-fA
https://youtu.be/DJNT7C61NrE
https://youtu.be/_zXKtfKnfT8

On the other hand i love my dieselpunk clean, streamlined , modernist and stylised like this:
https://youtu.be/ACLvVpn_8vU
https://youtu.be/T2Dj6ktPU5c
https://youtu.be/egvFBZFi0vY
https://youtu.be/XFYWazblaUA
https://youtu.be/-UaGUdNJdRQ
https://youtu.be/cY3ypQD6p2s

So, can steampunk be dirty ?

LOL, yeah, you might be a dieselpunk in steamed clothing Smiley

I kid.  

Here's a classist observation since you mentioned proletariat.

Most of the steampunk fiction I see is from or has members of upper class point of view.  Oft times thrust into dirty situations or mixed with lower classes which perhaps teaches them a lesson.

So it's not that steampunk isn't dirty, soot happens. But the cleaning staff takes care of that, here on the estate. Can Lord Cleanglove stop the invasion, after losing his position and being dropped in the sootheap of humanity?

We see this in a lot of steampunk cosplay.  A good number of it is characters with a mouthful of names (the person who makes anagrams out of usernames is good at it) and lofty titles and positions who enjoy a good bit of tea. I'd guess half of us are enjoying a dellusion of upper class grandeur (I can't spell french words, but you know the one).

The other half is playing the airship pirates (upper class of dirty people I guess, ) or mechanics or some such middle class.  How many are sooties?  Raging toothless death machine racers with pustules abursting?

So you might enjoy the industrialization and proletariat POV, and perhaps that POV (and fiction you've found and will hopefully list so I can read it).  But it's not the common POV I've seen in fiction or cosplay (except for the airship pirates).

I'm betting this newfound insight I have thanks to your post here is why you and I didn't agree on Steampunk Racing video.

As a side note on fiction I've read (not exhaustive nor demonstrative of the best of SP):
Parasol protectorate series (Gail Carriger loves adverbs, I asked)
The Difference Engine
Bannon & Clair series (Lilith st. Crow)
The Aeronaughts Windlass
The Gunpowder Chronicles (Jeannie Lin, chinese steampunk)

All of those have upper class people thrust in with lower classes, rather than strictly "the lower decks"

Anyway, I've seen talk about how some people think the Punk in SP means more than the people who coined it meant.  A movement, grunge, the wild fringe like punk rockers and mad max.    It's like they took that word and ran with it, and it's not aligning with the classist fiction and cosplay I see developed from "the other half" of the community.  I made up the ratio, don't read too much into that. Smiley



« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 05:27:27 pm by Kensington Locke » Logged
chicar
Rogue Ætherlord
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Student in Techno-Shamanism and Lyncanthrope

Chicar556
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 10:39:08 pm »

Yah, i know i’m fairly untraditional but it is his diversity of visions who keep steampunk alive. Kinda ironic my steampunk esthetic is nearer to other dieselpunk one , considering i’m one of the few peoples who wouldn’t put electro-swing and jazz genres other than ragtime and New Orléans in a steampunk playlist:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:54:37 pm by chicar » Logged
morozow
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 01:25:31 am »

Steampunk is a game. People choose characters for unreal adventures.

But the player / character must be free, for adventure.

And what freedom does the appendage of a steam engine have that works for 30 shillings a week? They're part of the system.
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Sorry for the errors, rudeness and stupidity. It's not me, this online translator. Really convenient?
chicar
Rogue Ætherlord
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Canada Canada


Student in Techno-Shamanism and Lyncanthrope

Chicar556
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2019, 03:43:31 am »

Breaking your chains can lead you to lot of adventures.
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Fairley B. Strange
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Relax, I've done much dumber things and survived..


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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 10:12:08 am »


 [twirls moustache]

 Oh, you meant gritty and unidealised, bugger....
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morozow
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2019, 11:09:45 am »

Breaking your chains can lead you to lot of adventures.

Yes. You can rebel against oppression.  But you cease to be a worker in oil and soot. You become a revolutionary whose hands are dirty from the smoke of gunpowder and the paint of proclamations.

I wonder what a steampunk revolutionary should look like.
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Kensington Locke
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2019, 03:35:02 pm »

Also, yes, steampunk can be dirty.

Going out and doing something is likely to encounter dirt

Clean people are going to struggle with dirt

dirty people might desire to get clean

Largely, the entire genre is based on a quest to take a bath, as metaphorically symbolized by a cup of tea. Smiley
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ForestB
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Lady of the copper frogs


« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2019, 05:40:54 am »

Also, yes, steampunk can be dirty.

Going out and doing something is likely to encounter dirt

Clean people are going to struggle with dirt

dirty people might desire to get clean

Largely, the entire genre is based on a quest to take a bath, as metaphorically symbolized by a cup of tea. Smiley


I love this statement!
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newjack
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« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2019, 01:14:43 am »

steampunk SHOULD be dirty! coal firing steam engines is dirty business. the industrial revolution was a nasty place to be... horse manure in the streets, people getting maimed by machines, the stench of grease and dust around machines, gas & kerosene fired lamps staining walls and ceilings, jack the ripper, primitive medicine, wastewater in rivers and a lack of hygiene in general are more real than the idealized stuff one sees like the "all clean and shiny" the golden compass etc. after just watching it again... the elephant man is a more accurate depiction of the era than any steampunk  can remember.

regardless... i always butt heads with people who scream "blasphemy!" whenever anyone dares take a genre in a new direction. i'd consider gritty steampunk to be a pleasant change of pace. i intended to include the concept in an alternate timeline story i'm trying to write in which the roman empire is a stand in for today's sins of capitalism... global warming & pollution... but now that i'm thinking about grime as a specific concept... i'm going to try and incorporate it into my ideas even more!

hey... thanks bunch for the inspiration!

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groomporter
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« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2019, 07:55:06 pm »

Rule 34... Roll Eyes

Oh you mean dirty in the other sense...
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newjack
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« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2019, 11:02:22 pm »

oh no... gritty too, though not pointlessly so like the jim jarmusch's western "dead man" which was more gruesome than many horror movies. yeah... steampunk shouldn't be purely "star trek: the next generation" but more like the new star trek discovery where people *gasp* swear! HAHAHAHA

if i'm in a life threatening situation... i'm gonna use my new york vocabulary!

i actually have a joke on that subject. it blew my mind how "goody goody" people in oregon tend to be. swearing is frowned upon there. the punchline to that topic is
"i'm from new york... 'eff you!' is how we say hello"

i know it's blasphemous to say it here... but i've always found the squeaky clean idealized victorian era aesthetic and all of it's gold leaf ornateness to be pretentious to downright annoying... like a CGI film i watched in which soldiers from the future on an alien planet are all wearing medieval-victorian era looking ornate engraved battle armor. oh i hated that sooooo much. i prefer no nonsense pure function only aesthetics.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2019, 11:05:09 pm by newjack » Logged
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