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Poll
Question: Are Rat Rods  Steampunk?
No. They don't run on steam - 8 (66.7%)
Yes.They are very loosely Steampunk by association - 4 (33.3%)
Total Voters: 12

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Author Topic: Rat Rods : Are they Steampunk?  (Read 1280 times)
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2019, 09:42:20 am »

Here for your enjoyment, are a showing of TROG videos [The Race of Gentlemen]


http://youtu.be/ne_H3WG1xXc

https://youtu.be/j9COT3xors4

http://youtu.be/luoelp-wDKA




Looks like lots of fun. Good setting too in New Jersey.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2019, 09:57:16 am »

Here for your enjoyment, are a showing of TROG videos [The Race of Gentlemen]


http://youtu.be/ne_H3WG1xXc

https://youtu.be/j9COT3xors4

http://youtu.be/luoelp-wDKA




Looks like lots of fun. Good setting too in New Jersey.


  It was the beach strip settings and the atmosphere  of anticipation  that  initially caught my attention. That was the basis  of the inspiration  it gave me to check the scene out. Then the vehicles themselves intrigued me and every one has its  story.   It's all good old fashioned fun
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chicar
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« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2019, 12:59:04 pm »



If I didn't know Dieselpunk (aka WhateverComesAfterSteam-Punk) existed, I might maybe label something like that steampunk.

But I do know it exists. And that's cars and tech and looks that exceed the Vicwardian aesthetic, so it probably ain't steampunk.  Despite them putting the monicker on the package.

I think anybody branding something as steampunk (particular for sale) runs the risk of ridicule for reaching too far and missing.

On the other hand, it looks like a fun crazy race game, and that might score it grace.  We've all seen crappy things labeled steampunk that aren't to know what Fail looks like.



That dieselpunk ?!!!!!

Let me guess , your among the people who think Mortal Engine is diesel ?

Because if you think steampunk have to be clean while i love my steampunk extra dirty, then i think i find the root of our disagreement. Also, outside of the battlefield, i paradoxically love my dieselpunk cleaner ( what i admit go against the traditional «  because steampunk wasn’t dirty enough » mentality,adding a additional level of understanding of our misunderstanding).
« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 01:14:02 pm by chicar » Logged

The word pagan came from paganus , who mean peasant . Its was a way to significate than christianism was the religion of the elite and paganism the one of the savage worker class.

''Trickster shows us how we trick OURSELVES. Her rampant curiosity backfires, but, then, something NEW is discovered (though usually not what She expected)! This is where creativity comes from—experiment, do something different, maybe even something forbidden, and voila! A breakthrough occurs! Ha! Ha! We are released! The world is created anew! Do something backwards, break your own traditions, the barrier breaks; destroy the world as you know it, let the new in.''
Extract of the Dreamflesh article ''Path of The Sacred Clown''
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 10:26:41 pm »



If I didn't know Dieselpunk (aka WhateverComesAfterSteam-Punk) existed, I might maybe label something like that steampunk.

But I do know it exists. And that's cars and tech and looks that exceed the Vicwardian aesthetic, so it probably ain't steampunk.  Despite them putting the monicker on the package.

I think anybody branding something as steampunk (particular for sale) runs the risk of ridicule for reaching too far and missing.

On the other hand, it looks like a fun crazy race game, and that might score it grace.  We've all seen crappy things labeled steampunk that aren't to know what Fail looks like.



That dieselpunk ?!!!!!

Let me guess , your among the people who think Mortal Engine is diesel ?

Because if you think steampunk have to be clean while i love my steampunk extra dirty, then i think i find the root of our disagreement. Also, outside of the battlefield, i paradoxically love my dieselpunk cleaner ( what i admit go against the traditional «  because steampunk wasn’t dirty enough » mentality,adding a additional level of understanding of our misunderstanding).


I think he meant Diesel because of the "recycled" vehicles that look like they came from the 20th. C. You have a modified bulldozer. Definitely not Victorian. You have something that looks like a modified VW Beetle (Sedan) decorated in brass and gears, you have something that looks like a post-apocalyptic dune buggy. Neither are Victorian.

I don't know exactly what you mean about "clean" or dirty." I think that "dirt" in Steampunk is there for a different reason, in my opinion (to say something about the story or setting).

~ ~ ~


That goes to the heart of my last post (http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,50257.msg997233.html#msg997233).
There is Steampunk by association by way of DIY/Survivalism. A lot of people see Steampunk more like a DIY activity where you recycle delapidated rusty 20th. C. stuff and have Mad Max styled battles in the desert. I suspect Burning Man is seen as a Steampunk activity by many. But while that is Steampunk to many people -typically gamers/DIY and survivalists, other Steampunks, more on the fiction side, see Steampunk as an alternate timeline starting in the 19th. C where technology is more advanced than it really was.

For the "literary" Steampunks, 19th. C. tech is given an appearance of "modern" tech - not the other way around. For example, you might have stratospheric flying airships, high powered cannons launching manned bullets to the moon, and British soldiers waging battles with rayguns - against Martian invaders, say . None of those items belong in the 20th. or 21st. C. The timeline splits in the past and Steampunks accelerate it to the future. The pedantry in my statement is, of course, that Steampunk started as a literary genre. DIY was tacked on to Steampunk later on toward the late 1990s. That changed the perception of what Steampunk is to people outside of the movement.



« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 10:44:46 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Kensington Locke
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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2019, 03:06:37 pm »

Pretty much what Wilhelm said. I'd say Wilhelm speaks the language of what I feel in my gut.  So he says it better and with facts and diagrams Smiley

If SP is retrofuturism, post-apocalyptic settings tend to strike me as regression to the primal, not retro.  If. the characters, the art, the tech doesn't really exude a victorian vibe to me, it's not Steampunk in my view.

I'm sure somebody can write/film a world that is post-apocalyptic and retrofuturism where it's not 1890, but the future, yet the characters and artifacts seem as if they were AND avoids appearing far past 1910 as to where society and design style is.  But that game looks like a bunch of mad-max characters with souped up junkers.  Where's the tea?  The dignity in desperate times?

Is the Mortal Engines film SP?  I'm sure it appeals to us (I saw it, it was alright).  But was I watching a bunch of Victorians in Victorian garb and behavior go through an adventure, or Dieselpunks?  I think the people (like the male lead and the villain) tended to seem more Victorian.  I'd bet SP and DP people could argue both ways on the film, that's what a melding of styles does.
---
All of this is of course, my metric for whether I consider something steampunk or not.  Not entirely useful to anybody else and it can't hold up as a tool for things that blur the lines.

« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 05:44:54 pm by Kensington Locke » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2019, 06:18:29 am »

 Where's the tea?  The dignity in desperate times?

There's so little of that nowadays! What dignity? Society is more like freestyle wrestling match!
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chironex
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« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2019, 12:46:25 pm »

There's a rat that keeps coming up on various motoring shows that keeps getting labelled as steampunk, but the two biggest rat fans I can stand watching, Finnegan and Freiburger from Roadkill, actually discussed this in a panel once and said it wasn't. Then it appeared again on their Facebook page labelled "Steampunk", and someone said in the comments that they were hereby sentenced to sit through several consecutive playings of a certain Sir Reginald Pikedevant Esq. song...

PS Roadkill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QVETb9DS34
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=roadkill+rat+rod&sp=mAEB
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Orkses is never beaten in battle. If we wins we wins and if we dies we dies fightin' so it don't count as beat. Even if we runs away it means we can always come back for anuvver go, see!

QUEENSLAND RAIL NOT FOR SALE!!!!!!
chironex
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« Reply #32 on: March 15, 2019, 01:09:11 pm »

Of course, some ratters forget what they're doing...
https://www.deviantart.com/czproductions/art/Mad-Hammer-587802423
https://www.deviantart.com/finhead4ever/art/Rat-rod-4-625669359
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Kensington Locke
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« Reply #33 on: March 15, 2019, 04:10:30 pm »


With the first pic (of the front of the car), I might say the car has been steampunked.  Which to me covers the taking something real and adding victorian flair to it (all 37 buttons like Brian has). Thus, it'd be a steampunk(ed) rat rod.

Which I discern to be different from an artist drawing a rat rod that looks like that and claiming it is steampunk because Victorians in his world invented it.  I'd call that mislabeling it steampunk, because Victorians can't design things outside of their contemporary construct.  Once they exceed their definition, they are no longer Victorians.  Just like the designers of the 1930's on who lived through or inherited the past by being born evolved their culture to no longer be Victorian in our world.

Note that in my consideration, when I say Victorian, I don't literally mean a fictional world with our history set between 1850-1910 and our timeline with deviations.  Jim Butcher's Cinder Spires is clearly not our world, but the people and design are Victorian-like, having evolved culturally to that same style.  Though I might question if his setting is pre-Victorian, but it's clearly not 20th-century like (unless I missed something).

As Wilhem described, I come from the book side of the steampunk tree, though I am a DIY/crafter/costume person.  When it comes to art (stuff we can see, not words in books), perhaps there's different steampunk sub-buckets:

Steampunked: I took this thing I found and made it look Victorian-esque (ex. laptops)
Steampunk as Victorian Sci-Fi: I made this sci-fi thing the way I imagine victorians would had designed it to look, often aligns with 1840-1910 timeline
Steampunk Appeal: I made this thing that has curves and tentacles and a steampunk person likes it
Victorian Now: I dress and/or use victorian artifacts in our present day which makes me steampunk now, but a mere Victorian compared to a Steampunk as Victorian Sci-Fi
Retropunk: just made that up to cover dieselpunk and the stuff somebody says is steampunk but I might not, but we both think it looks cool. Smiley


Anyway, this is only intended to highlight the many ways one might consider something to be or not to be steampunk and how the line can get fuzzy even for me with my own "guidelines" based on the context of a photo vs. a drawing.  I don't think that we collectively need or want actual formal guidelines, but seeing an explanation of  somebody's thinking might be helpful.  Wilhelm's posts on his approach (here and on other threads) has informed mine.  I recall when I first got here, somebody had posted a pic of their Davy Crockett SP outfit.  It was unusual colors, and no sci-fi bits.  I asked what made it steampunk, which was uncouth, but got to the point.  The designer explained how in his view, he approached it as an alternate history where a character of that time is in a world where color choices were different, etc.  That was educational for me in adjusting my categorization (and in not asking the question that way).







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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2019, 02:54:36 am »

There's a rat that keeps coming up on various motoring shows that keeps getting labelled as steampunk, but the two biggest rat fans I can stand watching, Finnegan and Freiburger from Roadkill, actually discussed this in a panel once and said it wasn't. Then it appeared again on their Facebook page labelled "Steampunk", and someone said in the comments that they were hereby sentenced to sit through several consecutive playings of a certain Sir Reginald Pikedevant Esq. song...

PS Roadkill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QVETb9DS34
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=roadkill+rat+rod&sp=mAEB

 That's an interesting channel.
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chicar
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« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2019, 03:31:40 am »

Just so you know i make a separate thread for the sub debate about steampunk vs dieselpunk esthetic.  http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,50269.msg997318.html#msg997318
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newjack
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« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2019, 02:24:35 am »

i get into arguments with "calculatus eliminatus purists" over topics like this all the time, eg. as far as i'm concerned, nineteen eighty four (1984) is steampunk. everything is lowtech & retro, bombs are called STEAMERS, and there's even a rusty old steam engine in the film. i look to make CONNECTIONS all the time. in answer to this threads topic... YES... rat (and rust) rods ARE steampunk, if you put them in a sci-fi setting.

regardless of arguments... this hotrod, at least, if no-one else has shared it yet was DESIGNED for a steam punker

A Steampunk Hot Rod That...Turns? - /BIG MUSCLE
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 08:14:51 am by von Corax » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2019, 10:52:24 am »



 That is an interesting vehicle. It's all the the eye of the beholder
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