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Poll
Question: Prefab  Housing  programme proposed  as to  be provided by the NZ  Governmental  Housing Corporation
Practical Solution - 3 (30%)
Shoddy Shacks - 0 (0%)
Scarily Dystopian - 0 (0%)
Slum Ghetto - 5 (50%)
Tiny Home Tyranny - 2 (20%)
Total Voters: 10

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Author Topic: Steampunk Prefab: Practical Family & Social Housing  (Read 6107 times)
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2018, 07:29:29 pm »

We need to do something to house people who want homes.  We recently visited Cuba and there is a serious housing shortage (among other things).  Here in Alaska we have a need for affordable seasonal worker housing and micro-homes are helping fill this need especially in Fairbanks and now Haines. 

I have high hopes for 3D printing technology:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVKtb2TrwRY



That is groovy.  Totally futuristic for   a deep Arctic   base  and covert operations.  Maybe not in the yellow though.  People would see it

The problem with concrete is that it will not cure in freezing weather. There are low temperature restrictions on most cements. The regular kind you buy at Lowe's / Home Depot will not cure below zero Celsius (32 F), and in fact the recommended minimum temperature I think is higher than that.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2018, 09:14:37 pm »

We need to do something to house people who want homes.  We recently visited Cuba and there is a serious housing shortage (among other things).  Here in Alaska we have a need for affordable seasonal worker housing and micro-homes are helping fill this need especially in Fairbanks and now Haines. 

I have high hopes for 3D printing technology:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVKtb2TrwRY



That is groovy.  Totally futuristic for   a deep Arctic   base  and covert operations.  Maybe not in the yellow though.  People would see it

The problem with concrete is that it will not cure in freezing weather. There are low temperature restrictions on most cements. The regular kind you buy at Lowe's / Home Depot will not cure below zero Celsius (32 F), and in fact the recommended minimum temperature I think is higher than that.

 Which is a reminder that being suitable for the environment is limiting for  prefab use.  Many urban planners and architects get it wrong. We have massive
e issues here with leaky and rotting  buildings built in the last 30 years. Wind, rain, sun, humidity, temperature fluctuations  and earthquakes tale a toll on buildings in NZ.  Every country and region will have its own environmental  conditions  to contended with
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Drew P
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« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2018, 12:41:41 pm »

One needs to tell Builders about concrete and freezing temps!
They have additives that supposedly negates the effects of cold as they consistently build here in Chicago all year round.
I think it's a falicy and the buildings will start to deteriorate way faster than older builds. Not to mention the fact that overall quality and care is gone as some go up in weeks vs months, plus, being involved in some way, I see too much.
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« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2018, 11:49:17 pm »

I won,t comment much on the “ghetto shacks” .... history shows it,s almost a given.

Nothing wrong with prefab if done correctly, and modular stacking can be excellent! I am gratified someone else mentioned Habitat 67!!!

Amongst the numerous issues is
- taking extant beautiful green space and ghetto-izing it
- forcing tiny homes ( they are specific choices for certain people, but otherwise a fad)
- using prefab lumber panels ... I can see a fraud based special interest deal from a mile away!
- slap-dash instant answer to a temporary “problem”
- lumber and New Zealand? Yes there are planted forests and all but, as an island nation one must ask what building products are truly most economical and longest lasting ... . Unless the local gub mint really is doing a planned obsolescent boondoggle.

As a material, concrete and locally produced adobe are strong, long lasting and easy to build with.

As previously posted, concrete pooping machines can whip up a building onsite insanely quickly and economically.


One needs to tell Builders about concrete and freezing temps!
They have additives that supposedly negates the effects of cold as they consistently build here in Chicago all year round.
I think it's a falicy and the buildings will start to deteriorate way faster than older builds. Not to mention the fact that overall quality and care is gone as some go up in weeks vs months, plus, being involved in some way, I see too much.

When correctly formulated, with proper additives and INSULATING BLANKETS concrete can be laid in most places nearly year round. Apparently it is not well known that concrete CURES, NOT DRIES, .... the chemical curing process of concrete, like epoxies, is exothermic and the produced heat can be calculated into the curing process given local weather. Improper mixes ( ie cheap, or boondoggle ) and rain ( or extreme heat / dryness ) and wind factor in more than temperature ( except for temperature extremes )

If the materials are available economically, concrete is an ideal, long lasting, eco-friendly building material.
If labor can be procured dirt-cheap ( pun intended ) adobe brick is as good.

Taos Pueblo is a 3 and 4 story apartment complex built entirely of stabilized native adobe brick, and has been continuously occupied for over 1000 years. Cool in the summer and easy to heat in the winter, it has withstood the tests of time and the Tiwa people love living there. I know quite a few.

Yhs
Prof marvel
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« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2018, 02:09:15 am »

Correct.
Any time I have witnessed the poring of concrete in freezing temps, no "blankets" or sub-structures were provided, just the air, even snow!
But what do I know?
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Prof Marvel
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« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2018, 07:11:36 am »

Correct.
Any time I have witnessed the poring of concrete in freezing temps, no "blankets" or sub-structures were provided, just the air, even snow!
But what do I know?

You know enough to know it's wrong!

Below ~ 20 deg F Thermal curing blankets or construction tents should be used. Use of "too much" cold weather chemical agents  can compromise
the strength. This occurred at the DIA ( Denver International Airport ) midwinter runway pour; it started to fracture less than a year in, was analyzed and found substandard and the contractor was forced to redo a significant portion at his own expense ...

yhs
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2018, 08:01:12 am »

Correct.
Any time I have witnessed the poring of concrete in freezing temps, no "blankets" or sub-structures were provided, just the air, even snow!
But what do I know?

You know enough to know it's wrong!

Below ~ 20 deg F Thermal curing blankets or construction tents should be used. Use of "too much" cold weather chemical agents  can compromise
the strength. This occurred at the DIA ( Denver International Airport ) midwinter runway pour; it started to fracture less than a year in, was analyzed and found substandard and the contractor was forced to redo a significant portion at his own expense ...

yhs
prof marvel

Any opinion on the *prefab* bridge that collapsed at that college in Florida?
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James Harrison
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« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2018, 06:34:12 pm »

Well, now, y'see, this concrete thing...

A large part of my day job involves designing shuttering for the stuff.  A large part of designing the shuttering is doing the maths for working out concrete pressure (the forces exerted by the concrete on the shuttering whilst it is being poured and then curing).  Obviously you don't want to build a timber shutter, fill it with concrete and then watch as the thing bursts and the concrete goes everywhere....

We have tables we have to adhere to for working out things like pour rates, rates of rise per hour, concrete pressures, temperatures, densities etc.  The tables only go down to 6 degrees centigrade.  The Formwork Guide (the big book of concrete, we call it) is quite forceful in saying temperatures below 5 degrees centigrade are not conducive to successfully pouring concrete. 

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Prof Marvel
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« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2018, 08:46:09 pm »

J - with little data I have only conjecture. So far the damaged end and reported cracking prior to collapse would indicate a concrete failure and incompetent safety inspections .

James-
With no other intervention, a pour below 40 deg f should be avoided.
If in contact with the ground, the ground *must be thawed*
Below 40 deg f industrials pours over here use
 - *hot* water, up to about 180 deg f
 - heated forms
 - *more* Portland cement to increase the exothermic reaction but not so much as to harm strength
 - anti-freeze additives , but limited amounts so as not to compromise strength and sodium chloride should not be used with steel rebar
- insulated and or heated concrete blankets
- tenting the site and heating it

Also, periodic detailed inspection and temperature monitoring is imperative:
 - the extant water cannot be allowed to freeze.
- temperature of the plastic mix is critical for a number of days depending on. , well , everything
- the poured concrete must be inspected *often* for any signs of cracking spalling or dusting which indicate failure.
- after complete. Cure, the concrete *ought to be * subjected to stress test to make sure it actually achieved the psi rating. Ie drive a truck on it. If it breaks crumbles cracks, remove and start over.

Unfortunately due to liars cheats and thieves and greed such above inspections and over site seldom happen except on large public projects such as hiways and runways.

Yhs
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2018, 04:58:52 pm »



 There is more to this prefab business than meets the eye. Keep the ideas flowing.  It's  provoking subject
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Prof Marvel
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« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2018, 02:28:36 am »

I myself saw our new Northrop Grumman building go up in just a couple months by doing a proper slab concrete pour, followed by prefab concrete composite laminate walls hoisted in, prefab concrete beams for subsequent floors. Roof, repeat to achieve 4 floors.

Working backwards, one can whips up lovely homes using prefab concrete walls and composite laminate roofs.  Or precast concrete “rooms” stacked together on site.

I am personally fond of
- the concrete pooping machine, or
- prefab rooms cast of “foam Crete” (ie concrete mixed with fine styrofoam or even foamed with air and an additive)

Foamcrete : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foam_concrete

- large prefab LEGO blocks made of foamcrete
- foam LEGO’s stacked together then filled with concrete . Aka icf
    ( see here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulating_concrete_form )

Yhs prof mvl
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2018, 03:16:15 am »

I myself saw our new Northrop Grumman building go up in just a couple months by doing a proper slab concrete pour, followed by prefab concrete composite laminate walls hoisted in, prefab concrete beams for subsequent floors. Roof, repeat to achieve 4 floors.

Working backwards, one can whips up lovely homes using prefab concrete walls and composite laminate roofs.  Or precast concrete “rooms” stacked together on site.

I am personally fond of
- the concrete pooping machine, or
- prefab rooms cast of “foam Crete” (ie concrete mixed with fine styrofoam or even foamed with air and an additive)

Foamcrete : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foam_concrete

- large prefab LEGO blocks made of foamcrete
- foam LEGO’s stacked together then filled with concrete . Aka icf
    ( see here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulating_concrete_form )

Yhs prof mvl

 Having a quick jack looky,  it appears one could construct buildings big and small, ultra modern and traditional with  foam creating. The only limit is the imagination.
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morozow
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« Reply #37 on: April 18, 2018, 06:30:52 pm »

The Soviet science fiction writer Bulychev, I have an idea - home of the fastest growing corals.

If the use of modern bioengineering technology. Maybe it's possible. Smiley
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2018, 07:25:03 pm »

The Soviet science fiction writer Bulychev, I have an idea - home of the fastest growing corals.

If the use of modern bioengineering technology. Maybe it's possible. Smiley

 That could be amazing.   A living home.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2018, 08:37:01 pm »

The Soviet science fiction writer Bulychev, I have an idea - home of the fastest growing corals.

If the use of modern bioengineering technology. Maybe it's possible. Smiley

 That could be amazing.   A living home.

Straight from a 1980s OMNI magazine article. They also predicted living automobiles genetically derived from crustaceans.
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #40 on: April 18, 2018, 10:45:45 pm »



 I haven't heard of OMNI magazine in years.  It had the best conspiracy theories. It was a Bible to  some former associates
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« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2018, 04:18:22 am »

Building a home from a coral-like substance using the animal that creates it would pretty much have to involve a genetically-modified animal that builds it's home on land from raw material available in micron or smaller size in its environment (the animals in corals use the lime in sea water, for example). I seem to remember another animal that builds cell-based homes that got got all modified by some scientists in South America. The things got loose and caused all sorts of havoc, I hear.

Maybe it's an un-manly attitude, but I'd personally prefer a house made by somebody or something who's not likely to come at me en masse with homicidal intent.
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morozow
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« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2018, 09:03:54 am »

Something like that
– Sorry, you're right. Now, coral reefs, no matter how big, are built by tiny coral polyps. Each polyp builds a limestone hole and lives in it. And then when you die, its a hole other build a house, and so on. That is, coral reefs consist of billions of coral houses and coral skeletons. Only corals build their reefs for millions of years, and humans have found a bacterium that works on the principle of coral, but grows and reproduces very quickly. If you scatter spores of coral bacteria and water them with a nutrient solution, the growth of the wall, the ball, the hut will begin, what your heart desires. And the coral house is growing in the direction you point it. And over time becomes increasingly robust. He's solid – he neither earthquake is not terrible, nor fire, nor frost. And most importantly-it can be given any shape. Since coral appeared in the building, everything has changed. Now the architect has become a real artist. We build houses like artists paint pictures. Didn't like the house – it poured with a solvent and then the dust swept. But admit it, you all and without me know?

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« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2018, 09:18:56 pm »

Regarding prefabs, I find it very interesting to compare the price difference between static caravans/mobile homes, and site built houses. The former aren't lacking electricity and plumbing, so it seems that the main difference is being on a permanent foundation and wrapped in a brick veneer.

As for looking to the past for inspiration, I think we should bring back the back-to-back house, since the health problems with them go away with modern ventilation and plumbing (there are plenty of modern apartments which are surrounded on three sides - or even worse, five sides), and they're a high density housing form that gives people their own house and perhaps a small garden out front. If parking is required, turn the ground floor into a garage (not the most aesthetic choice), or instead build end-connected semi-detached housing with parking at the side, and a deck over the carport. If you don't make the street width excessive, even the latter could achieve densities in excess of 100 dwellings per hectare, and if built over three (or two and a half) floors, would provide spacious 2-bed houses suitable for 1-2 people. I think they've done something like this in Manchester, but they were designing for families and tried squishing in a garden at the rear/side as well. Anyway, 2/3 of households in the UK are 1-2 people, and if a significant fraction of them - say 20% - could be persuaded to move to new built end-attached housing, I think it would really help bring down the cost of housing.I think they could probably be profitably built and sold for around £60k, so a couple who are both on minimum wage could even become homeowners.
[/ramble]

Yeah, I get somewhat passionate about housing...

As for the design of buildings, I recommend everyone watch How Buildings Learn, by Stewart Brand. The entire documentary is available for free on YouTube (I also have the book). One very important thing from that is the idea of shearing layers - buildings should be designed so that you don't have to break through the slower-changing parts to access the faster-changing parts. So no embedding pipes and wires inside walls! I favour building the skin (outer wall) as separate from the (load bearing) frame, then the inner walls. Inbetween the two goes insulation and utilities (I think a lot of buildings actually do this). That way, you can construct a simple garage addition (skin only), build a frame inside it, insulate and wire it up to turn it into a bedroom and loft, and later add plumbing and an exterior door to make it into a rental annexe. Or do it in reverse, if you want to literally move your house - the only material cost you'll have is the lost of the foundation and skin, you can take everything else (frame, insulation, roofing tiles, windows, wires etc) with you and reassemble it.
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« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2018, 02:28:38 pm »

Not Steampunk, but examples of Prefabs in the UK.

Prefab House at St. Fagans
Prefab houses still going strong (BBC article from 2009)
Prefabs in the United Kingdom (with pictures)

I grew up in a house like this one. (C) Neverpaintagain
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« Reply #45 on: April 22, 2018, 12:00:12 am »

Not Steampunk, but examples of Prefabs in the UK.

Prefab House at St. Fagans
Prefab houses still going strong (BBC article from 2009)
Prefabs in the United Kingdom (with pictures)

I grew up in a house like this one. (C) Neverpaintagain


 New Zealand  had post war prefabs of a similar  nature.  Many are still standing and quite sought after  for their quaintness.








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Banfili
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« Reply #46 on: April 22, 2018, 12:27:52 am »

A cousin of mine in Canberra has one of those precast concrete jobbies!
Prefabs are still going strong in Australia, too. There are quite a few design-and-build companies producing very nice houses. They are quite popular because they are either modular and easy to transport and bolt together, or are built in halves or quarters (for bigger ones) and transported on the backs of trucks, and plonked down on prebuilt foundations or stumps. One room or ten rooms can be put together in no time at all, and prices range from the very modest, about $60,000 or $70,000 for the smaller, basic models, to well over $300,000 or $400,000 for bolt together multi-storey mansions! A one room cabin style, with bathroom and kitchenette and 'do-it-yourself' construction can be had for as little as $15,000 to $20,000.
Land prices can vary (from $5,000 to half a million!), but in the country (depending on individual shire bylaws) if you have enough land to accommodate a septic tank system, put in water tanks that utilise rainwater collection from your roof (which has to be steel for domestic use), hook up the electricity one way or another - power lines, solar and/or wind-power, plonk your little prefab on it and away you go! The houses are called "plonk-its" for a reason!
There is a fella down the road - about 20 kilometres - who has built a little domestic dwelling system from old containers - it looks really neat!
If there had been any land available in the very small town I lived in when I bought my current house, I would have bought there and had a plonk-it dropped on site. With the cost of foundation work and services, land, house and fees would have cost roughly the same as the price I eventually paid for my current house and land in an even smaller town. Admittedly, my block of land is somewhat larger than it would have been down the road, and the house a little bigger, if older, but overall it would have been a better financial option to have a new house built to my spec with nothing to be done to it for years rather than a 50 year old house which needed modification and renovation.
 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 12:48:56 am by Banfili » Logged
Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2018, 01:56:14 am »

A cousin of mine in Canberra has one of those precast concrete jobbies!
Prefabs are still going strong in Australia, too. There are quite a few design-and-build companies producing very nice houses. They are quite popular because they are either modular and easy to transport and bolt together, or are built in halves or quarters (for bigger ones) and transported on the backs of trucks, and plonked down on prebuilt foundations or stumps. One room or ten rooms can be put together in no time at all, and prices range from the very modest, about $60,000 or $70,000 for the smaller, basic models, to well over $300,000 or $400,000 for bolt together multi-storey mansions! A one room cabin style, with bathroom and kitchenette and 'do-it-yourself' construction can be had for as little as $15,000 to $20,000.
Land prices can vary (from $5,000 to half a million!), but in the country (depending on individual shire bylaws) if you have enough land to accommodate a septic tank system, put in water tanks that utilise rainwater collection from your roof (which has to be steel for domestic use), hook up the electricity one way or another - power lines, solar and/or wind-power, plonk your little prefab on it and away you go! The houses are called "plonk-its" for a reason!
There is a fella down the road - about 20 kilometres - who has built a little domestic dwelling system from old containers - it looks really neat!
If there had been any land available in the very small town I lived in when I bought my current house, I would have bought there and had a plonk-it dropped on site. With the cost of foundation work and services, land, house and fees would have cost roughly the same as the price I eventually paid for my current house and land in an even smaller town. Admittedly, my block of land is somewhat larger than it would have been down the road, and the house a little bigger, if older, but overall it would have been a better financial option to have a new house built to my spec with nothing to be done to it for years rather than a 50 year old house which needed modification and renovation.
 

[don't tell any of my countrymen I said this]  while Australia and New Zealand have similar influences, designand   some of the same architects; Aus  house and building design has always had an edge in character and aesthetics.  I lived in Perth for  a year and  have visited Sydney a few times. It feels like there is more of a continental influence  and less missionary conservatism
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Banfili
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2018, 03:32:50 am »

Probably because we were a penal colony first, with it less than glorious origins in the English justice system! I don't think New Zealand had convicts, and its free settlers were from all over, although I do know a good many were Scots!
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Hurricane Annie
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2018, 07:09:49 am »



Banfili, NZ    has  ex convicts   from Australia in its history and escaped convicts.  They came to start a new life.  Most of our early settlers were Scots and Irish soldiers,  sailors, traders and missionaries whom often bought wives with them from the  far flung parts of the empire they has been posted in.   This has become described as "having a  Spanish grandmother "  somewhere  to explain the olive.  My mum says hers is a  dark Scots grandfather., only that branch wasn't from Scotland....

Contrarily,  I did have a GT GT GT  uncle, son of a lay preacher, who left NZ for Aus in the 1850s and was hanged as a bushbranger in 1860. I've been unable  to find out any more details that the year of his death.  Is there a site with  crime and execution records to look at?

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