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Author Topic: The Temple  (Read 1297 times)
Emile
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« on: October 06, 2015, 05:47:46 am »

Here is The Temple.... a Pen and Ink drawing done with a Rapidograph drafting pen that draws a line about the width of a human hair. About 20x24 inches on acid free board. All freehand (no measurements, straight edge or preliminary sketch). Loosely modelled on a ruined Roman temple in Turkey I once saw a picture of. The technique is stippling, and it literally took hundreds hours (and about an ounce of really good bud!). A little piece of my soul....

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Caledonian
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« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2015, 07:11:00 pm »

woah!
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von Corax
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« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2015, 07:58:17 pm »

Very impressive; worthy of a place in the 2D Art Thread.
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Maets
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« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2015, 12:14:06 am »

Very nice!
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Emile
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« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2015, 12:36:31 am »

Wow, thanks guys, I did that back in 1988.... Does anyone see the illusion?
« Last Edit: October 12, 2015, 01:01:31 am by Emile » Logged
Peter Brassbeard
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« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2015, 03:26:24 pm »

The engineer in me is wondering what holds up the split lintel over the foremost opening.
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Emile
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« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2015, 11:59:27 pm »

Hi Peter Brassbeard....

The engineer in me is wondering what holds up the split lintel over the foremost opening.


Hah! Good one.... no one's ever noticed or mentioned (over about 28 years) while viewing or scrutinizing it, including architects (it was actually an architect that bought it and he never noticed, never said a word, nor did any of his friends or colleagues.... it hung in his office for several years), other artists, gallery owners and a wide variety of other people I've shown it to for whatever reason over the years (in person and after I got on the internet) is that The Temple could never have stood for even a moment. As you noticed, the long rectangular stones bridging the opening in the wall in the foreground couldn't possibly support their own weight, let alone that of the stones piled atop them and would come crashing down immediately. But that's not all. Moving on to the second facade, it's made up of three arches, none of which have keystones, so they too would come crashing down immediately, and the same goes for the arches to either side of the doorway in the third facade in the background....


....only the doorway is actually possible, but no one's ever noticed unless I brought to their attention that something might be amiss.... I just always found that interesting.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 05:25:44 am by Emile » Logged
Drew P
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2015, 12:25:24 pm »

Improbability, maybe. Illusion?
 I was looking for something that wasn't there.
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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 02:01:25 pm »

Improbability, maybe. Illusion?
 I was looking for something that wasn't there.

Likewise
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Emile
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 04:30:12 pm »

Improbability, maybe. Illusion?
 I was looking for something that wasn't there.

Right, I see your point (usually I just point out the impossibility of it rather than ask if anyone can spot it). The actual probability of it's standing for any length of time though is zero, making it an impossibility. Maybe that's how I should have put it..... "Does anyone see the impossibiliy?"

« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 04:56:45 pm by Emile » Logged
Fairley B. Strange
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 08:49:57 pm »

Hi Peter Brassbeard....

The engineer in me is wondering what holds up the split lintel over the foremost opening.


Hah! Good one.... no one's ever noticed or mentioned (over about 28 years) while viewing or scrutinizing it, including architects (it was actually an architect that bought it and he never noticed, never said a word, nor did any of his friends or colleagues.... it hung in his office for several years), other artists, gallery owners and a wide variety of other people I've shown it to for whatever reason over the years (in person and after I got on the internet) is that The Temple could never have stood for even a moment. As you noticed, the long rectangular stones bridging the opening in the wall in the foreground couldn't possibly support their own weight, let alone that of the stones piled atop them and would come crashing down immediately. But that's not all. Moving on to the second facade, it's made up of three arches, none of which have keystones, so they too would come crashing down immediately, and the same goes for the arches to either side of the doorway in the third facade in the background....


....only the doorway is actually possible, but no one's ever noticed unless I brought to their attention that something might be amiss.... I just always found that interesting.


As we can't see the outer ends of the two lintels, they could possibly be much longer and cantilever across the comparatively smaller opening?

Or they may be two panels of decorative facade affixed to a single beam behind?

And while a keystone makes an easier arch to construct, they aren't essential - many brick arches and vaults just use the even distribution of equal sized blocks in this manner.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 08:53:56 pm by Fairley B. Strange » Logged

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Peter Brassbeard
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« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2015, 06:14:53 am »

Hi Peter Brassbeard....

The engineer in me is wondering what holds up the split lintel over the foremost opening.

Hah! Good one.... no one's ever noticed or mentioned (over about 28 years) while viewing or scrutinizing it, including architects (it was actually an architect that bought it and he never noticed, never said a word, nor did any of his friends or colleagues.... it hung in his office for several years), other artists, gallery owners and a wide variety of other people I've shown it to for whatever reason over the years (in person and after I got on the internet) is that The Temple could never have stood for even a moment. As you noticed, the long rectangular stones bridging the opening in the wall in the foreground couldn't possibly support their own weight, let alone that of the stones piled atop them and would come crashing down immediately. But that's not all. Moving on to the second facade, it's made up of three arches, none of which have keystones, so they too would come crashing down immediately, and the same goes for the arches to either side of the doorway in the third facade in the background....
...
....only the doorway is actually possible, but no one's ever noticed unless I brought to their attention that something might be amiss.... I just always found that interesting.
The second and last arcades are arched enough to not be a problem structurally.  The lintel stones on the foremost arcade might reach a long ways to either side, but that still defies masonry convention in putting a major bending load on a material generally approximated as zero tensile strength.
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von Corax
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« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2015, 06:26:40 am »

I wonder if it would be possible to run tensioning cables through those lintel stones as through prestressed concrete?
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MWBailey
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« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2015, 06:10:27 am »

The problem with any of it working is the joints being positioned where they are. I'm not going to say it's 100% impossible, as I've seen stone and bickwork fitted together such that they appeared to defy both gravity and reason (a really sticky mortar recipe can work wonders). This, however, looks to me as though it would only be possible with a girder framework with mortar tabs hidden within to hold everything up - and even then, it's really iffy.

The bridging blocks in the lintel construction in the foreground appear to extend beyond the edge of the image, so it seems possible that in the building's original, fully-loaded and unruined state, they might have acted similarly to a corbeled vault - but without the necessary downward push on the wal-ward ends of the blocks, it couldn't stay up, in my opinion (Why? look at that load of ruined stonework atop the rightward block). The portico in the inner court could extend for a great distance on either side of what we can see through the doorway, but still, it's the same problem with the linteled door, but without the balancing effect of long stones held up by lever action from downward pressure - it can't stay up, unless there's something hidden within to do the job; in other words, it looks like either an impossibility, or a veneer covering.

There could be pillars supporting the arches on either side of the far doorway (the assumption is natural, or at least I kneejerk-assumed such at the outset), but even so, those arches bother me. I've seen brick-and-mortar decorative arches stand up and stay put for years without anything but the weight of the arch-member bricks* (pardon my terminology, I'm nobody's lame excuse for a bricklayer or stonemason) and the mortar between them holding them up, but those used at least a regular brick for the keystone, and didn't extend flat-horizontally across open space. Again, they're arches that would only stand up in RL if there was a support armature behind/within them.

Cables? Maybe, but cables being the way they are, stretching (yes, steel does stretch somewhat) would be a problem over time, and tightening to bring the stones back in line would only work so long as the cable didn't part under the strain.

Aggghh, pardon the pedantic novella...



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*meaning, without the support and stress of a wall around them to help them stay up
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 06:28:55 am by MWBailey » Logged

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