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Author Topic: Alternate History Question: What If Trotsky Suceeded To Lenin  (Read 1148 times)
chicar
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« on: September 09, 2015, 05:11:20 pm »

Being a bad economist, i have some difficulty to see the difference between trotskist and stalinist. So i ask you : How the USSR history would be different  if Trotsky was in charge ?
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The word pagan came from paganus , who mean peasant . Its was a way to significate than christianism was the religion of the elite and paganism the one of the savage worker class.

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Clym Angus
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2015, 05:57:22 pm »

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130101072359AAx89Hv

http://classroom.synonym.com/main-political-differences-between-stalin-trotsky-8948.html

Trotsky favoured a more outward facing and constantly turning form of revolution rejecting the cult of the leader encouraged by Stalin. Internationally this could be seen to be somewhat disastrous as negotiation with any communist state could be overturned as the next generation of "back to basics" communists supplanted the established order. Trotsky championed a planet wide critical mass maybe even ponzi scheme of communism. It doesn't matter if communism in one country causes instability as the newer communist states will underpin the older ones as their revolutions occur.

It is debatable if this policy would have worked given the nature of humanity and their reluctance to concede hard won power bases. As it stands Stalinist policy internalised losses rather than externalising them. End of the day a lot of people were going to die whoever took the lead. To believe that Trotsky would have done a "better job" given his constantly churning take on communism is questionable. Arguably his policies left him open to anyone more ruthless taking the state right out from under him, if not Stalin then the next potential despot in line.

Just my take.
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2015, 11:33:21 pm »

Gentlemen, though this is an hypothetical and somewhat historical discussion to this point, it is perilously close to outright political if extended in any direction.

Perhaps we should drop this one?


Cheers!

Chas.
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2015, 01:50:08 am »

Mr. Chicar.  You have asked this question some time ago by starting a similar thread, if I remember correctly. And it was an Off Topic thread.  

On an intellectual level I will answer the same.  Trotsky was not so different as people believe him to be.  He may have been "martyred" in Mexico, but during the Bolshevik Revolution he masterminded "social cleansing" by organizing the murder of thousands of men, women and children of upper and merchant class society, just to "drive the message" that the proletariat was not "taking it any more" and as a political terror tactic.  People who followed him and later became his own mortal enemies, like Stalin, just perfected and augmented the tactics (purges) 100-fold before removing Trotsky as a challenge to the political order.

I will write no more on the subject.


Gentlemen, though this is an hypothetical and somewhat historical discussion to this point, it is perilously close to outright political if extended in any direction.

Perhaps we should drop this one?


Cheers!

Chas.


Not only that, but this subject is a re-hash of a now defunct Off-Topic thread

[mod hat]
I will submit this thread for discussion among moderators
[/mod hat]
« Last Edit: September 10, 2015, 01:53:07 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

pakled
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2015, 03:51:59 am »

I wouldn't give Stalin's chances of survival much...Wink
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chicar
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2015, 02:19:35 am »

Mr. Chicar.  You have asked this question some time ago by starting a similar thread, if I remember correctly. And it was an Off Topic thread.  


I knew it sounded familliar but the forum search engine fail me.

Sorry.

If no politic rule came to became a obstacle to uchronical discussion thought....
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2015, 02:53:19 pm »

Well, considering that both Trotsky and Stalin survived well into the lifetimes of some people on this board, and certainly the true influence in politics that they had - or would have had - falls well outside the Steampunk era, it is hard to see where you are going with this.

Unless perhaps you are desperately trying to come up with an alternate history where Communism actually succeeded.  In which case it is both massively political, and true fantasy at the same time.



Cheers!

Chas.
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chicar
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« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2015, 02:19:06 am »

Actually, it might been just a subconscious desire to have trostkist explained to me.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2015, 02:52:41 am »

[mod hat]
Gentlemen:
Strike two. The conversation is taking a turn toward political opinion, plus given the timeframe and origin of the responses, I feel it's turning into a political debate between two people. I had seen this thread previously in Off Topic, so I feel perfectly justified in send it back from whence it came.

I'm moving the thread to Off Topic. Play nice. This is a final warning.
[/mod hat]

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chicar
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Student in Techno-Shamanism and Lyncanthrope

Chicar556
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« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2015, 12:49:33 pm »

In fact, could you lock it up already ? I already get what i coming for ( or the reminder i needed apparently) . Political discussion risk to be all whose left.


I promise to seek my sociology dependent alternative history musing elsewhere.  Cry

@Captain Lyerly: just for clearing my conscience( and because i expect the overdue locking up of this thread very soon) , i want to signify you than if it wasn't of the forum rules i would entertain you of the post-scarcity society , how Karl Marx bet on it and how much communist leaders forget about this pre-requisite. Believe me , if i really wanted create a alternative history  where communist suceeded, the starting what if would have been "what if artificial intelligence have been invented durign WWI ".

And yes, the above paragraph is pretty much this thread suicide note, but i have nothing to lose.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 01:04:15 pm by chicar » Logged
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