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Author Topic: Windows 10?  (Read 5012 times)
rovingjack
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« on: July 24, 2015, 06:42:38 am »

anybody thinking of doing an upgrade?

I'm thinking I might be willing to do a partition and upgrade the partition.

Honestly windows 8 was enough of an adjustment I'm hesitant to risk the entirety of my system.
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SeVeNeVeS
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2015, 07:28:44 am »

I'm still on XP Pro, risky but reliable.

Installed 7 on my dads pc and hated it, might be going to ubuntu soon, windows is becoming seriously shyte IMO....... Undecided
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Prof Marvel
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2015, 07:49:59 am »

.....
Installed 7 on my dads pc and hated it, might be going to ubuntu soon, windows is becoming seriously shyte IMO....... Undecided

+10!
I have been following the  trade rags, and I refuse to submit to microsnot control of my privately purchased H/W and S/W.

just downloaded Ubuntu, will install on a 32 gig bootable thumbdrive to start. If enraptured by the gui and apps I will make a bootable Ubuntu partition followed by a contribution heheheh.

Since it seems that attacks by virii and ransomeware are inevitable , I will be doing my surfing in an isolated sandbox vm.
they can attack, but cannot modify anything except memory.

yhs
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2015, 07:52:05 am »

I'm still on XP Pro, risky but reliable.

Installed 7 on my dads pc and hated it, might be going to ubuntu soon, windows is becoming seriously shyte IMO....... Undecided

If you didn't like Windows 7 then you will not like anything beyond 7. Windows 7 had the last of the "classic" Windows interphases, and is actually a good OS - I had Vista and 7 with no problems, and they are "siblings" - actually 7 is a paired down version of Vista.

But Windows 8 is very different in many ways to the previous ones.  So, if you're not comfortable with Win 7 then I'd say don't even think about it and migrate to Linux, because you'll hate what comes after that.
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Siliconous Skumins
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2015, 08:16:44 am »

80% of my machines are still on XP Pro / Home, and probably the older ones will remain that way as they move to retirement. However the newer ones still in general use will probably migrate to Linux at some point (basically when XP can no longer run a modern web browser).

I only have Windows 7 installed on one of my netbooks, so I might give 10 a shot on this as it is supposed to work better on underpowered machines, and anything would be an improvement (plus it's a free upgrade, so meh...).  I will be taking an image of the win 7 hard disk though, if 10 sucks like a blackhole, or it turns out that 'No, it doesn't run better on old hardware!' then I can simply swap the hard disk out for the backup and never speak of it again.


Long term I'm moving to Linux as I now have nothing tying me to Windows (software or hardware), though I will probably keep at least one windows 7/10 machine around if possible, simply for compatibility issues. Infact I'm at the point now where I could probably dump my current main computer and swap the hardware for a Raspberry Pi, and save a bunch on electricity in the process...  Sadly I use Youtube a lot, and flash / HTML5 video playback in the browser is a problem for the Pi, though that may be fixed eventually....maybe. Undecided
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 08:23:08 am »

Not being a techie type I find XP easy to navigate, user friendly and simple, we like simple.

7 was a mare to find anything, even my dad hates it and as a result doesnt really use it much now, why fix something that aint broke? Money, lets make more money and force people to upgrade, if I didnt need a PC I wouldnt bother.

Dont get me started on mobile phones, i could be ranting all day  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 09:19:40 am »

80% of my machines are still on XP Pro / Home, and probably the older ones will remain that way as they move to retirement. However the newer ones still in general use will probably migrate to Linux at some point (basically when XP can no longer run a modern web browser).

I only have Windows 7 installed on one of my netbooks, so I might give 10 a shot on this as it is supposed to work better on underpowered machines, and anything would be an improvement (plus it's a free upgrade, so meh...).  I will be taking an image of the win 7 hard disk though, if 10 sucks like a blackhole, or it turns out that 'No, it doesn't run better on old hardware!' then I can simply swap the hard disk out for the backup and never speak of it again.


Long term I'm moving to Linux as I now have nothing tying me to Windows (software or hardware), though I will probably keep at least one windows 7/10 machine around if possible, simply for compatibility issues. Infact I'm at the point now where I could probably dump my current main computer and swap the hardware for a Raspberry Pi, and save a bunch on electricity in the process...  Sadly I use Youtube a lot, and flash / HTML5 video playback in the browser is a problem for the Pi, though that may be fixed eventually....maybe. Undecided


Raspberry Pi?? That's masochism. A £25 Chinese tablet would outperform it!

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/14181950085684634238


With so many cheap PC motherboards out there, I'd get at least a Zotac Mini ITX with built in AMD A4 quad Core Fusion APU.  Build it into a 1950s bread toaster or such Grin

http://www.directron.com/a68n5000.html

Anyone can assemble a PC in 30 minutes flat, if they know how to hook up the components. Slap Ubuntu or Mint Linux and you're good to go.
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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 10:06:02 am »

Yeah, but a Raspi only uses around 2 / 3 watts of power at full load.  For surfing the internet, why use more?  Wink

As for a cheap tablet, it would only be of use if I could hook up dual monitors and keyboard & Mouse - and not many of them support those abilities. Also drivers for Linux can be an issue, especially graphics. The Raspi 2 with quad core CPU @ 1GHz and 1Gb Ram is actually quite a nippy little beast for only £30. Supports dual monitors too (with a tweak). Can get Android running on the Pi too.

ITX is not bad, but power requirements are similar to those of a netbook / low end laptop, so not as good power wise (still better than a 200W desktop though).


Technically you can get windows 10 on the Pi too - but only the IOT version, so not of any real use as a general OS, but does support 'apps' though.
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2015, 02:09:31 pm »

Win 10 has had some very good reviews heading towards the launch (which is a heck of a lot more that Win 8 had), so it's looking promising.

Personally I hate Win8 (I've got it on my work comp). It's tried to do something that hasn't worked, being that it tried to make a single OS for PC, tablet and mobile. What actually happened is that it made a good OS for mobile and tablet, and a really crappy one for PC. Thus they made 8.1 which fixed a lot of the crappy-ness, but didn't actually make it that good. Problem was that they changed the interface massively didn't account for the fact that people don't like big changes.

I love Win 7. I'm surprised that you hated it so much as an upgrade for XP as It's really not that different to XP in most regards (interface-wise). Unlike Vista which was a big change, it went back to more of the interface that XP had. However there was a bit of a difference with stuff behind the scenes.

Win 10 is supposed to be taking the performance changes made in Win 8 (which were actually quite extensive, like the boot-up time is nothing) and mixing them with how the fact that people liked the Win 7 interface, and hated the Win8 one. And I know they are doing a Win10 for mobile and tablet, but they're actually a different OS and not trying to be the same and that the PC version is built for a PC (with a mouse and keyboard, because that's what people actually want). I hear Microsoft lost a lot of revenue because they didn't cater for the PC market (which is where the big bucks is) and I don't think that they're going to make that mistake again.

I'm hopeful. I'm downloading it for my work computer (is Win8.1 at the moment and I hate it), but probably not for my lappy (Win7). The free upgrade is available for a year anyway, so I'll see how it goes on my work compy first.
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2015, 02:34:50 pm »

(I have nothing to add to this conversation. I just want to make sure I see new posts to this thread.)

Thanks, guys, for giving us your thoughts/opinions, and please keep us updated.

(For the record, I'm working on XP, but the last version I really liked was 2000. I don't do anything fancy except work with stuff in Office, and the most complicated thing I do is look at videos online. My lady has 7 {I think} and I hate how it looks. It's like they deliberately made it harder for old people to literally, physically see anything or find anything.)
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2015, 04:24:35 am »

A review of Windows 10

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/windows-10-reviewed-microsoft-returns-to-sanity-125261921924.html
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2015, 05:02:04 am »

A precautionary note (or, reasons to wait a while before hitting the update button):

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/8-reasons-not-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-124926327849.html
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 05:31:09 am »

A heads-up (I don't know if this is actually an issue for anyone, but, if it is...):

"...Video? Well, that's another matter. You can't watch DVDs or Blu-ray discs on Windows 10 natively. Instead, you'll need to get a third-party program. I recommend the open-source VLC.

You'll want VLC anyway. You see while Windows 10 comes with a Music and Movies & TV apps, they're pretty bare-bones..."

http://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-finally-a-decent-windows-first-release/
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Prof Marvel
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« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2015, 07:11:26 am »

being an ancient one, I cut my teeth on IITRAN run via paper tape on a TTY. Worked my way up thru various IBM and NCR O/S 's including IBM Multics. Got into into various BSD 'Nix flavors starting in '77 , then DEC's O/S's including VAX VMS.
I ran with IBM Dos 1.x and it's kin, laffed at the first Windoze Gui 's ( 1.x, 2.x , and 3.0 ) knowing them for the Xerox PARC ripoff they actually were.

I finally installed and ran Win 3.1 and lived thru the crash-of-the-week scenarios. The Bill G's  hucksters Ad Men bought the rights to the Stones ""Start Me Up" 1981 single, thinking it would be hip ... but to anyone who knew the song the ads were hilarious because they stopped just before the lyric "you make a grown man cry" and "you make a dead man come" ....

The best thing they ever released was XP. As a Professional 'Nix Guy ( yes, I make my living doing high-end remote backline support for certain unnamable evil corp.) I thin that should say something. I liked XP, because once I got into the guts and understood it I was able to castrate it remove or disable many of the things that made it insecure and/or unsafe.

As previously stated, the new model under Win 10 has pushed me over the edge. I am willing to pay for an O/S ONCE.
I am not willing to be forced into a "subscription model" or held for ransom.

As such, I am moving my lovely spousal unit onto a MAC, and I will be coverting my machines to varieties of Linux, with possibly one or more running the aformentioned Xp and/or the 7 I am currently running, under sandboxed VM's.

The O/S and PC vendors would have you believe "they " have a handle on security, but the unfortunate reality is that The only safety one has is by running stuff isolated. Keep your stored data and your executables completely separate, run your O/S from memory only.  Another way to achieve the isolation reqd is the Google Chrome model, where the clean O/S & APPS is downloaded as reqd to run on flash or RAM - but that too leaves one vulnerable to both web access and the whims of the evil corp. Perhaps one could hardwire a Read Only switch on ones hard drive....

I was once attacked by one of the russian ransomeware virii, but noticed something out of sorts, got into Task Mgr  and wacked the shit out of it cut it's head off stopped it and was able to reboot single user, track it back and destroy it. All it managed to encrypt was some sacrificial crap noncritical images that were already backed up. It did take me some time to ensure the thing was properly dead and would not come back from the grave, but it is a classic example that the Bad Guys will always be a step ahead of the Good Guys, in this case embedding the virii in innocus images or videos spread all over the place.

so , having babbled at length, I can some it all up with
NO to Win10 ;
Yes to LINUX and sandboxie

yhs
prof marvel
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rovingjack
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« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2015, 04:30:05 pm »


As previously stated, the new model under Win 10 has pushed me over the edge. I am willing to pay for an O/S ONCE.
I am not willing to be forced into a "subscription model" or held for ransom.

I've seen no indications of a subscription model at all. Please inform us of anything you have that suggests that is going to occur.
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Rockula
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« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2015, 04:38:21 pm »

I had Windows 7 and had no problem.
I had 8 and had no problem
I had 8.1 and had no problem.
I will upgrade to 10 as soon as it is out.
I foresee no problem.
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« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2015, 07:47:54 pm »

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2953307/microsoft-windows/windows-10-is-for-suckers.html

RE: Win 10 "Subscription"

"Microsoft’s Windows 10 message hasn’t always been clear. They’ve declared the Windows 10 upgrade will be free for the first year and that going forward they’ll be pushing “Windows 10 as a service."

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/05/12/free-windows-10-has-high-cost/
https://redmondmag.com/articles/2015/04/01/subscription-model.aspx

ultimately anything the lying sach of shite lying marketeers Talking Heads of Microsnot "say" even publicly
*is not binding* . What is buried in the fine print ( and which can be changed at any time) is what matters.

So far I have not seen any solid clarification.

It may be fine for the great unwashed masses average user ( note: the average user literally wants an "internet toaster" - just pop the bread in and "use it") but in this day and age, one can no longer depend on the Corporations Largesse  for protection of one's own data or keeping your device working properly.

The Chinese devices in particular  have become well-known for built-in malware, and I would not be surprised to find they incorporate hardware hacks as well . Built In HW hacks  became quite a topic several lustrum past when it was discovered by the Defense Dept that certain TI chips as manufactured in Thailand did not operate correctly in certain weapons platforms military devices; at the time the solution was "no foreign chips", and specialist reviews of the actual fab .  

Further, even if there were no other issues, the mandatory automated updates ( irregardless of breaking your existing compatabilities ) is a deal-breaker for me.

Last, with the extensive advances in Malware, Ransomeware,  and the variations on the StuxNet virii in the wild, I have no faith that an automated centralized update server would not be compromised. I actually see this as the Next Big Thing in malware.

So far I see nothing that will change my mind. I have seen too many rainstorms to stop carrying umbrellas *and* a pocket-poncho.

Your Mileage may vary, and , as always

"Well, do what you think is best, Ned!"

yhs
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« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2015, 01:23:46 am »

"Windows 10 security alert as new 'feature' automatically shares your wifi passwords with ALL Outlook, Skype and Facebook contacts who also have the software"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3179022/Windows-10-security-alert-new-feature-automatically-share-wifi-passwords-Outlook-Skype-Facebook-contacts-software.html

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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2015, 02:05:33 am »

Absolutely nothing is safe nowadays. NOTHING.

I've been thinking about a tablet with dual Linux Win 10 boot.  I'm still thinking about it and probably I'll end up with an Android Ubuntu dual boot (basically two OS's running on a Linux kernel), but you guys just heard what happened with Android...  Nothing is safe folks. 
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2015, 02:09:44 am »

Actually, I didn't hear what just happened with Android...

You mind elaborating, or providing a link to an article?
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Ranger Reid
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2015, 02:17:18 am »

being an ancient one, I cut my teeth on IITRAN run via paper tape on a TTY.
yhs
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Oh yes, in a previous life I was fluent in COBOL and FORTRAN.....    I could punch cards with the best of them LOL.....
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2015, 02:47:23 am »

COBOL is a bit before my time.  I did however start programming in FORTRAN 77 in the late 80s, in DOS and Windows "IBM compatibles. Remember that name?  Grin Back with 89386s and my first PC circa 1994 was a 486DX2 which was not obsolete for the grand period of 6 months (no punch cards, thank you that is also way before my time), and then I had FORTRAN 90 and 95, of which I almost got no use.
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2015, 02:52:53 am »

Ironically I had those archaic experiences in high school in the 80's.  LOL   We had a very cool teacher who was building something special in the business department.   We also had the TRS 80's, then the next year we got a couple of "apple plus"es.    Then the last year I was there they got a crap load of "Apple IIe"s

After all the ancient stuff, those 2e's seemed like magic.     We would buy magazines with BASIC code in them.  Bobby and I would go to school early and enter the code and by the time school started we would be playing games like Karateka.   

Floppy disks were my jam.
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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2015, 02:57:06 am »

I started with punch cards and Fortran.  Learned BASIC on a Linotype. Still like DOS, but haven't used it in years.

Currently happy with Windows 7.  
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Prof Marvel
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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2015, 04:26:49 am »

Learned BASIC on a Linotype.   


Ah My Dear Maets -

On a Linotype!


that must have taken one hellacious interface design ...
I can just imagine the cast type being sent down a chute to be collated, then read by an early 1-D OCR  , and the characters tranaslated into ASCII over a serial line... unless the cast type was collated and a printed newsheet made, which could then be  read by a minion into a voice-interface.....

yhs
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