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Author Topic: The farce awakens....  (Read 8007 times)
Michael Farley
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2014, 09:42:31 am »



A nicely understated way to deal with critics.

For what it's worth, I've heard that in the new (and canonical) Rebels cartoon series set between episodes III and IV they show teenagers being recruited as stormtroopers.

Also in the Force Awakens trailer, if you pause when you see all the stormtroopers lined up, they look like they're different heights (cue the obligatory "Aren't you a little short to be a stormtrooper"? gag). This means there was either a problem with quality control at the clone-factory (which would surely defeat the point of having clones) or they're just normal people.

So I assume the Empire started phasing out the clones at the end of the clone wars. This makes sense from strategic point of view. Sourcing all your soldiers from a single cloning factory would make it an obvious target for attack from the rebel alliance. On the other hand, recruiting or conscripting able-bodied people from any of the planets you conquer would give you a nearly unlimited source of stormtroopers. Also it is presumably less resource-intensive to train an already-grown adult than to raise a clone from scratch (even with accelerated growth).

It might also help to explain why stormtroopers in the original trilogy are such terrible shots (surely 'being able to hit the side of a barn from 10 paces' would have been one of the criteria the Kaminoans used when selecting Jango Fett as a genetic blueprint for the clone army).
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4_0_4
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2014, 12:35:33 pm »



Poppycock !

If the Empire are sp desperate their recruiting all ages and colours then it just dilutes them from being the cold calculating force they were to a 3rd rate come as you are circus with pretty lax requirements ( hence the defector )

Secondly the actor is 22 and looks it if not younger , so hardly fits the idea of someone who has been scarred by conflict and decided to defect - nor does he look even remotely bad or the sort of person who'd join what was almost intergalatic nazi agenda. ( Although I hear the KKK are doing it now )
.
Thirdly I thought the Empire were meant to be seen as non enitity / gone so if their recruiting policies are now that lax anyone can join , then why wouldn't the Rebels already know about it and stop it ( esp if people are already defecting ) ?

If it conflict / war , which is usually the case ( unless he dropped his bar of soap a  few times ) then again I ask why Rebels would not know about this , and how we are meant to buy into this idea without any backlog / story ? ( which I somehow doubt the film with have time to do )

I could go on and on why the trailer sux , lets not talk about the wallis / lollipop / worst vehicle ever  
hunk of a contraption Solos spawn is on ( has tech regressed that bad ?) or nice Synchronized  X-wing line dancing formation ( duck shoot any one ? )

What do I like ?

Nothing much r..apart from the flickering effect on the saber and the end this 88 seconds I would rather forget .
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 01:08:57 pm by 4_0_4 » Logged

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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2014, 01:07:00 pm »

I give up on arguing about black people in sci fi, it's just such a non argument. Even a cursory glance at the settings lore shows it fits, anything else is just pious white folk whining that blacks can't have fantasy. Or a kind of ultra politically correct notion that only white folk can be the hench people of proper evil.

The age comment does interest me though, using modern and historical conflicts as a basis 22 is easily old enough to have become a battle worn veteran here on present day earth, let alone in some fairly war ridden distant future.
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4_0_4
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2014, 01:15:24 pm »

I give up on arguing about black people in sci fi, it's just such a non argument. Even a cursory glance at the settings lore shows it fits, anything else is just pious white folk whining that blacks can't have fantasy. Or a kind of ultra politically correct notion that only white folk can be the hench people of proper evil.

Nothing to do with colour at all , if it had been a white girl or fat white guy I would of had the same reaction - its just bad idea without a backlog to explain how we went from Intergalatic Nazis to anything goes.

Quote
The age comment does interest me though, using modern and historical conflicts as a basis 22 is easily old enough to have become a battle worn veteran here on present day earth, let alone in some fairly war ridden distant future.

True but how do you distinguish that in a 3 second clip thats meant to make you believe it and c more ?

Again pure nonsense
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4_0_4
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2014, 01:38:15 pm »

I give up on arguing about black people in sci fi, it's just such a non argument. Even a cursory glance at the settings lore shows it fits, anything else is just pious white folk whining that blacks can't have fantasy.

Sure they can , but why try to reinvent the wheel ?

You saw what happened when Lucas did it , so why try to detract from a winning formula and make things more complex than they need to be ?

Is SW a political statement now , do we need every colour of human in it just to be fair because to me thats more racist and  condescending than anything.

Did any one protest when a black man voiced a white man in black armour ( Darth Vader ) ?

As I said before the Empire was prodominantly based on white people and its influences - not black or other ethnic groups , so if your going to start changing that it needs to be done cleverly , and for a reason - not just randomly have someone pop up in the  desert like an erection waiting to be assimilated because 30 yrs have passed.

Sorry , but that doesn't work any more than if you started seeing ex Taliban serving you at your local store , there are just too many plot holes there to cover that and 88 secs is not long enough to do it.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 02:23:38 pm by 4_0_4 » Logged
Vagabond GentleMan
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2014, 07:40:20 pm »

Inflatable friend, how emotional your responses are!  I think I get it, though...the original Star Wars films were paragons of storytelling and as silly as it might seem, changed lives...the recent three films were so disappointing to the core fans that everything coming after are doomed to be held under a fiercely suspicious microscope.
I've pretty much lost hope myself, although when it comes to film, I tend to be a fairly glass-half-full type of fellow...I don't have high expectations, so any surprise is a happy surprise.  >shrugs<

To match the original three films, these new ones would have to revolutionize film as a whole, re-invent a genre in a way that makes it culturally relevant in new ways, change individual lives, and be the subject of lengthy writings by a Mythologian as insightful as Joseph Campbell.  That's an exceptionally high bar, the new films aren't gonna make it.  Oh well.

On the race tip, though, it's ALWAYS going to be a subject of exceptional importance in Science Fiction.  Good Science Fiction is often if not usually a vehicle with which we can address contemporary sociocultural issues from a distance through metaphor.  Star Wars and Star Trek have always had underlying political commentary...even if the writers didn't intend it to be so, their own beliefs and agenda cannot help but come through in a genre where the fantasy of the creature allows for such ambiguity and double-speak.  Both a good thing and a bad thing, I s'pose.

Hey delCano!  PM me about Historical Fencing sometime...I'm a practitioner myself. Smiley
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4_0_4
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« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2014, 07:53:29 pm »



To match the original three films, these new ones would have to revolutionize film as a whole, re-invent a genre in a way that makes it culturally relevant in new ways, change individual lives, and be the subject of lengthy writings by a Mythologian as insightful as Joseph Campbell.  That's an exceptionally high bar, the new films aren't gonna make it.  Oh well.


Bump

Nolan could of at least cut the cartoon capers element out of it and given us a Dystopian Mythology more relevant to the here & now and post 80's blues ...

I bet George is already smoking a big cuban back at SW Ranch with his Ewoks and drooling at thought of JJA being his new scapegoat / sacrificial lamb , why else do you think he sold it ?

 
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 08:03:35 pm by 4_0_4 » Logged
Vagabond GentleMan
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« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2014, 08:00:59 pm »

Double-bump.

One realm of modern film with which I'm moved to pick a bone is the shoddy approach to comic relief.  Comic relief is important to any story, but its manifestation in most modern film (at least most Hollywood film) seems rather sophomoric if not downright childish...as you said, cartoonish elements.  It need not be thus, and I find it disappointing.
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4_0_4
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« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2014, 08:07:38 pm »

Double-bump.

One realm of modern film with which I'm moved to pick a bone is the shoddy approach to comic relief.  Comic relief is important to any story, but its manifestation in most modern film (at least most Hollywood film) seems rather sophomoric if not downright childish...as you said, cartoonish elements.  It need not be thus, and I find it disappointing.

I'll be honest I haven't seen anything that I'd rate higher than 7 since the remake of Planet Of The Apes , you can almost predict the whole movie from the trailer alone its nauseating .

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4_0_4
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« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2014, 08:13:50 pm »

Double-bump.

One realm of modern film with which I'm moved to pick a bone is the shoddy approach to comic relief.  Comic relief is important to any story, but its manifestation in most modern film (at least most Hollywood film) seems rather sophomoric if not downright childish...as you said, cartoonish elements.  It need not be thus, and I find it disappointing.

Its not even good cartoon either just the same cliched garbage recycled over & over like some filthy sex machine the peepholes luv to ride.

corn syrup any one ?  Undecided
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Sorontar
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« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2014, 02:59:22 am »

I am surprised that no-one is relating the droid to the deadly inflatable ball from Dark Star.

I do hope they have good reasons for the deadly guard for the hand-weapon. My experience with renaissance fencing tells me that the wielder would just be asking for trouble otherwise.

Sorontar
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rovingjack
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« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2014, 04:10:55 am »

well the thing that strikes me about the lightsabre design is that it might have problems if it were a blade with only two edges, but if you've watched star wars movies you no the whole surface of the energy blade 'cuts'. So even a swing of the blade that would result in hitting with the flat of a normal blade is still a solid cut or hack. In addition to that the guard pieces could very easily stab, cut on any direction including rotating on the hilt axis to create a sort of disk.

Not sure if they'll be using some cortosis weave in the guard itself to protect against lightsabre catching at the joint.

still bothered by the droid design though.
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« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2014, 04:20:15 am »

still bothered by the droid design though.

I would agree, of the little we know, the rolling droid is the least appealing part.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2014, 05:36:21 am »


I could go on and on why the trailer sux , lets not talk about the wallis / lollipop / worst vehicle ever  


I like your use of the Dark Side to keep this thread going...

The trailer done in Legos.  Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpfWrh1scZU#


In other news, I prefer the Light Side:  Grin  It looks like there is more than one version of the LEGO trailer

Alternative LEGO Episode VII trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0tLOARV-jk


I don't see the point in getting too serious when the creator wasn't even serious about it himself...
« Last Edit: December 02, 2014, 05:47:02 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Hez
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« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2014, 04:35:34 am »

My two pence worth:
Concerning the rolling droid, it should bounce.
Concerning the trailer, seriously have some patience, if you put out too many clips now you'll wear out your welcome.
Concerning parts III through IV, I didn't bother
Concerning the movie as a whole, I'll wait until I have more information
Concerning a black actor as a storm trooper (or any other role) welcome to the 21st century.
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Alexis Voltaire
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« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2014, 05:07:57 am »

Disclaimer: Nothing political meant by this.

Stephen Colbert has a nifty way of reasoning around one potential drawback of the crossguard lightsaber.

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rovingjack
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« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2014, 07:48:45 am »

still bothered by the droid design though.

I would agree, of the little we know, the rolling droid is the least appealing part.

I think part of the reason it bugs me so much (aside from being cartoonish and 'chibi') is I've been tinkering with a design for building a semi remote controlled astromech like R2-D2 and while there are some mobility limitations that could be redesigned (and I had planned to do just that) and the sphereoid body has possibility this design is worse, not better. It's been implied that the ball body is sort of a tool box with storage space inside... if my tool box rolled down the stairs it would be a hell of a racket and nothing would be where I last put it when I opened it (let alone certain to not be damaged). The whole body in that design has to roll. and the head connection to the body, if there is one at all, is a severely compromised structural point for absolutely no reason.

So, yes, it's a nerdy reason to dislike it; but from a design point of view he done screwed up and made a good thing worse. To a degree it just doesn't make sense for anyone to ever have built one like that.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2014, 07:58:28 am »

still bothered by the droid design though.

I would agree, of the little we know, the rolling droid is the least appealing part.

I think part of the reason it bugs me so much (aside from being cartoonish and 'chibi') is I've been tinkering with a design for building a semi remote controlled astromech like R2-D2 and while there are some mobility limitations that could be redesigned (and I had planned to do just that) and the sphereoid body has possibility this design is worse, not better. It's been implied that the ball body is sort of a tool box with storage space inside... if my tool box rolled down the stairs it would be a hell of a racket and nothing would be where I last put it when I opened it (let alone certain to not be damaged). The whole body in that design has to roll. and the head connection to the body, if there is one at all, is a severely compromised structural point for absolutely no reason.

So, yes, it's a nerdy reason to dislike it; but from a design point of view he done screwed up and made a good thing worse. To a degree it just doesn't make sense for anyone to ever have built one like that.

I don't think there is a connection to the body.  That's the whole point of that shape.  It is a remotely electromagnetically supported and connected body...  Add to the design failures, the fact that the ball upon contact to a surface like soil or sand  would be grated down to the bare metal. Very impractical design.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 08:00:32 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
rovingjack
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« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2014, 09:23:16 am »


I don't think there is a connection to the body.  That's the whole point of that shape.  It is a remotely electromagnetically supported and connected body...  Add to the design failures, the fact that the ball upon contact to a surface like soil or sand  would be grated down to the bare metal. Very impractical design.


http://makingstarwars.net/2014/11/visual-new-droid-sidekick-works-star-wars-force-awakens/



I admit the idea of the head being seperate did occur to me first and seems as a sort of call out to modern gyroscopically balanced ball bots. and the idea of a head that can be picked up and placed on other units in a seeingly modular design would be potentially a great idea... don't round it off to look like some kind of inflatable or gummy candy. put a collar on the top of the sphere maybe make it sorta egg shaped with the sphere being a ball wheel. or better yet and easier to maintain (and more in line with the supposed concept art) a variation on this:

with the tank parts removed and an internal pull out section from the domed Hubs and the head held in a collar up top.

It still suffers from the limitation of spheres having to be as wide as the are tall (so to be as tall as R2d2 it would have to be about a meter in diameter). to be more practically sized for anything it would have to be cat sized or small dog sized making it not much higher off the ground than a persons knees which makes for a lot of bending for interaction. not very utilitarian.

Not to mention spheres struggle to roll over anything taller than one third their diameter. So really not any more practical than a regular astromech from the original trilogy, unless you are in handicapped accessible regions.

Sigh I may just have to tweak my astromech designs to demonstrate the better ways it might be done. Maybe I'll do that and shoot a video Addressed to Abrams about it. lol
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chicar
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« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2014, 11:50:24 pm »

I think i find a explaination for the crossed lightsaber:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crossguard_lightsaber

Edit: i think i arrive a bit late for this. Sorry. Cool
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 11:54:16 pm by chicar » Logged

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4_0_4
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« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2014, 12:38:40 am »

I think i find a explaination for the crossed lightsaber:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crossguard_lightsaber

Edit: i think i arrive a bit late for this. Sorry. Cool


Its an inverted crucifix - obviously to protect himself against the dreaded Dark Ewoks hiding in those trees.

Who else do you think is behind all this ? ( besides G Lucas )

One of them was even posing a good guy in ROJ ,but just look at the twinkle in those eye.. its like staring into the abyss

Are you really rdy for order 69 , are you?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 12:48:00 am by 4_0_4 » Logged
Peter Brassbeard
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« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2014, 06:49:36 am »

A couple good commentaries on how the crossguard sabre could work out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsRVcmEG3VY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3MozbQj8tM

It would take some adaptation of use style, but provides some defence from the opposing blade.
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rovingjack
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« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2014, 08:49:03 am »

meh, just wrap the side emitters in cortosis, problem solved.

But still design wise on that my inclination is to angle then across the main blade from the opposite side and leave them at a 25-45 degree angle.
so that without the center blade the for an X over the hilt but wit the central blade you get an intersection rather like an * with the bottom point going on ito a hilt and the top extending as the main blade.
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Sir Henry
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« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2014, 10:14:31 am »

I am surprised that no-one is relating the droid to the deadly inflatable ball from Dark Star.
The original "beachball of doom" known (and hated) by all Mac users.

« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:21:41 am by Sir Henry » Logged

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4_0_4
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« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2014, 12:06:53 pm »

I am surprised that no-one is relating the droid to the deadly inflatable ball from Dark Star.
The original "beachball of doom" known (and hated) by all Mac users.




You sure about the beachball George ??



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