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Author Topic: Electric Motor Question  (Read 1164 times)
Commander Data
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« on: August 09, 2014, 11:25:25 pm »

Hey guys,
Found this http://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Gearmotor-3M137 in the trash. Works fine. But i don't know how to mount something to the axle or shaft or whatever you want to call it. Can anyone help me?
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« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2014, 11:41:35 pm »

You need to either use a press-fit pulley / gear, or if it has a flat spot on the shaft, a pulley / gear that has a grub screw in the collar. If it has a bit sticking OUT from the shaft, you need to use a 'keyed' pulley / whatever.

Pics showing what I mean:
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« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2014, 06:19:51 am »

Some time spent perusing the catalogues of Stock Drive Products and W. M. Berg and Company will give you a sense of the various means by which rotating shafts are firmly attached to other things. Once you know what to look for, suppliers will not be difficult to find.
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Keith_Beef
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« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2014, 11:42:26 am »




With this last kind of wheel, you can often have a square cut-out in the hub of the wheel and a corresponding cut-out in the shaft (or arbour). These are called keyways. When you mount the wheel on the shaft you line up the keyways then drive a square piece of steel (a key) into the hole.

Key steel is typically around 0.3% - 0.4% carbon.

BS (British Standard) 970 (1955) calls this EN6a, while BS 970 (1983) calls it 080M30. Equivalent are SAE 1030, Werkstöff 1.1118, Kurznäme Ck 30.
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« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2014, 12:19:49 pm »

It seems they have changed the modelnumber of the motor from 3M137 to 1LPL8. You can see it here in the lower table. Thats why your link doesn't work anymore. I think companys do that to have an excuse for sending us a salesman with there new catalog -g-

If this is your motor, than you can see in the lower datasheet that you need a #605 Woodruff Key 3/16x5/8.

Depending on the load, you want to drive with that motor, you can just use a screw that fit inside the keyway.
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« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2014, 02:11:21 pm »

Thanks for everything!
It seemed that this motor had a lot of torque. Can anyone give me an idea of how strong this thing is? Perhaps what it is meant for?
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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2014, 05:41:49 pm »

The motor has a torque of 113 in. lbs.

When you attach a 113 inch long lever to the shaft (horizontaly), hang a weight of 1 lbs. at the end of it, then you are at the point where the motor stand still. His power and his load are equal.
(But don't do this. The motor will burn out.)

If you lower the weight, the motor starts to turn again. If you increase the weight, the weight will turn the motor backwards.
If you shorten the lever, the motor starts to turn again. If you make the lever longer, the weight will turn the motor backwards.

Torque is the result of a weight on a lever. When you hold a bottle of water close to your body, it is lighter then when you hold it away from you. When you hold the bottle away from you, it gain the advantage of a lever (your arm).

A torque of 113 in. lbs. is the force 1 lbs. gains by a lever of 113 in.

With the low rpm and the high torque it could be used for lifting things or turn a turret. It is meant for slowly moving heavy things.
The datasheet says that it has no Ratchet Pawl-Type Brake. I think that means that the motor has no safty-brake. When the weight gets to heavy, the motor really turns backwards. That means that the heavy object comes back down.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 05:44:35 pm by Magister technikus » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2014, 06:06:01 pm »

The other complication is that looks like a shaded pole AC motor, which won't produce much torque at low speeds. This type of motor is usually used for things like fans which run at constant speed and don't need much torque to start.
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« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2014, 10:53:27 pm »

If this is your motor, than you can see in the lower datasheet that you need a #605 Woodruff Key 3/16x5/8.
Depending on the load, you want to drive with that motor, you can just use a screw that fit inside the keyway.

That Woodruff key is 2 for $0.73 at Home Depot.

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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2014, 11:55:26 pm »

The other complication is that looks like a shaded pole AC motor, which won't produce much torque at low speeds. This type of motor is usually used for things like fans which run at constant speed and don't need much torque to start.

Oh Sad
I was hoping to use it to drill through thick metal. My drill press always stops not far in. It also tends to burn right through all my drill bits.
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2014, 05:31:19 am »

I was hoping to use it to drill through thick metal. My drill press always stops not far in. It also tends to burn right through all my drill bits.

At 30 RPM?  If you're trying to drill into metal at 30RPM, you're doing it wrong, unless you're boring out a cannon with a boring bar.

If you're burning out drill bits or getting stuck, something is wrong. Are you using a coolant/lubricant when drilling? Are you using harder drill bits than the material you're drilling?
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2014, 09:15:23 am »

yeah, that motor isn't really suitable for drilling.

Using a drill press there are several things you need to get right

- cutting speed (rpm) this depends on both the size of the hole and the material being drilled. The larger the hole the lower the speed needed.

- feed rate : the rate at which the drill is advanced into the work

- drill bits : need to be sharp and  ground to the correct geometry for the material. Standard HSS bits will be ok for mild steel and most non-ferrous metals but tool steels may require cobalt HSS or even carbide drills.

When drilling large diameter holes (more than about 8mm) it is useful to drill a small pilot hole first.
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« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2014, 12:29:06 am »

yeah, that motor isn't really suitable for drilling.

Using a drill press there are several things you need to get right

- cutting speed (rpm) this depends on both the size of the hole and the material being drilled. The larger the hole the lower the speed needed.

- feed rate : the rate at which the drill is advanced into the work

- drill bits : need to be sharp and  ground to the correct geometry for the material. Standard HSS bits will be ok for mild steel and most non-ferrous metals but tool steels may require cobalt HSS or even carbide drills.

When drilling large diameter holes (more than about 8mm) it is useful to drill a small pilot hole first.


I'll update this post later with the exact model number of my drill press.
I started using WD-40 while drilling, all that did was make a lot of smoke. I purchased some motor oil in advance for the next time i need to drill through metal.
At the time, i was trying to drill about 1/4" holes through a metal bed frame for this:



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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2014, 02:26:33 am »

Depending on the load, you want to drive with that motor, you can just use a screw that fit inside the keyway.

I would not advise doing that; a screw would leave gouges and pecker-marks (Thanks to YouTuber Tom Lipton for that term) all over the keyway, rendering it unusable as a keyway and earning you a brisk dope-slap from any serious machinist who saw it. Besides, as oldskoolpunk said, appropriate Woodruff keys are ~ 35¢ ea. at Home Despot, and probably cheaper at a real hardware store.
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2014, 09:52:00 am »


If the drill bits are overheating then it means that either they are blunt, incorrectly ground or the cutting speed is too high.

For ordinary high speed steel bits  the cutting speed for a 1/4" hole in mild steel is around 800rpm off the top of my head.
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2014, 11:14:41 am »


If the drill bits are overheating then it means that either they are blunt, incorrectly ground or the cutting speed is too high.

For ordinary high speed steel bits  the cutting speed for a 1/4" hole in mild steel is around 800rpm off the top of my head.

My "SKF and Dormer cutting tool handbook" gives the following speeds:
Non-alloy steels 0.4% - 0.7% carbon, grey cast iron and Non-alloy steel up to 40% carbon (could this be a misprint?)
 
1/8"1833 rpm
1/4"917 rpm
3/8"611 rpm

« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 11:20:43 am by Keith_Beef » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2014, 01:09:10 pm »


If the drill bits are overheating then it means that either they are blunt, incorrectly ground or the cutting speed is too high.

For ordinary high speed steel bits  the cutting speed for a 1/4" hole in mild steel is around 800rpm off the top of my head.

My "SKF and Dormer cutting tool handbook" gives the following speeds:
Non-alloy steels 0.4% - 0.7% carbon, grey cast iron and Non-alloy steel up to 40% carbon (could this be a misprint?)
 
1/8"1833 rpm
1/4"917 rpm
3/8"611 rpm



Yeah I think 40% should be 0.4% Tongue

For general drilling lubrication/cooling  isn't essential but it does become helpful if you are drilling deep holes (ie more than about twice the diameter of the drill) or if you are drilling a lot of holes in quick succession. Cutting fluid will also extend the life of drills between re-sharpening and/or allow you to get away with increased feed and cutting speeds.

In most materials, including mild steel,  a properly ground drill should produce two equal and continuous ribbons of swarf. If you're getting very small chips or powder then something is wrong.

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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2014, 01:30:00 pm »


If the drill bits are overheating then it means that either they are blunt, incorrectly ground or the cutting speed is too high.

For ordinary high speed steel bits  the cutting speed for a 1/4" hole in mild steel is around 800rpm off the top of my head.

My "SKF and Dormer cutting tool handbook" gives the following speeds:
Non-alloy steels 0.4% - 0.7% carbon, grey cast iron and Non-alloy steel up to 40% carbon (could this be a misprint?)
 
1/8"1833 rpm
1/4"917 rpm
3/8"611 rpm



Yeah I think 40% should be 0.4% Tongue

For general drilling lubrication/cooling  isn't essential but it does become helpful if you are drilling deep holes (ie more than about twice the diameter of the drill) or if you are drilling a lot of holes in quick succession. Cutting fluid will also extend the life of drills between re-sharpening and/or allow you to get away with increased feed and cutting speeds.

In most materials, including mild steel,  a properly ground drill should produce two equal and continuous ribbons of swarf. If you're getting very small chips or powder then something is wrong.



I always like to see two long pieces of swarf coming off the drill; this is how I judge the speed and feed to be correct. But for deep holes this can be a hazard, especially if you're holding the workpiece in your hand, or it can simply clog up your work area. To counter this, you can get "swarf-breaker" drill that have a special profile to the flutes.

Another consideration, but this time for thin material, is that the normal total angle point of 118° should be increased to 140° to avoid having the point break through before the whole of the lip has begun to cut. 
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