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Author Topic: FLYING YOUR FREAK FLAG  (Read 4526 times)
akumabito
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« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2013, 03:43:14 pm »

I don't know if they do custom flags.. if they do, you could always design your own.. it's really not that hard. Find the color scheme you like, add in some elements, make sure the flag is not too cluttered and looks more or less balanced and off you go!
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2013, 08:45:14 pm »

The Maximilian Era flag was being sold as well by that gentleman.  It would be nice to have that.  Alas, I don't have the money for that now.

Do you have a flag? - Eddie Izzard
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 08:56:04 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged

frances
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« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2013, 10:56:57 pm »

For historical re-enactment the appropriate flag can be researched and used.  But we are steampunk - so the flags maybe should also be steampunk versions of actual flags, else we are being misleading.  There will always be someone around who knows the correct meaning of a flag after all.
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CapnHarlock
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« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2013, 12:51:48 am »

An unfortunate 'heads-up' for American readers - the "Gadsden" (Don't Tread on Me "rattlesnake" ) flag design, which is even available as a license plate design here in VA, has apparently taken on a rather sinister "I am an extreme Right-Wing anti-government radical" meaning here in the States, similar to the way the old Imperial German Navy ensign used to mean "I am German, but NOT a Nazi sympathizer" (as flown by John Wayne in "The Sea Chase"), but has become unfortunately-adopted by various white-supremacist organizations in the States in the past decade or so.

Flying a "misunderstood" flag can get you into trouble. Please be careful and do your homework.

I fly "Calico Jack" Rackham's flag, more than others.

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« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2013, 01:29:45 am »

I keep intending to have my own pirate flag screen printed onto a t-shirt (skull and crossflutes, yes, I did intentionally say crossflutes).
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2013, 02:12:02 am »

I keep intending to have my own pirate flag screen printed onto a t-shirt (skull and crossflutes, yes, I did intentionally say crossflutes).
Why not crossbanjos?

For historical re-enactment the appropriate flag can be researched and used.  But we are steampunk - so the flags maybe should also be steampunk versions of actual flags, else we are being misleading.  There will always be someone around who knows the correct meaning of a flag after all.

I don't know.  This may be a difference of opinion.  I don't think I would get in trouble with the Hapsburg family if I flew the Maximilian Era Mexican Flag, and I know for a fact I can't possibly get in trouble for flying the American Union Jack, the present Mexican flag, and the present Texas flag or even the old Burnet Texas flag unless I treat them with disrespect (know when to fly it half staff, how to fold the flag and raise it and how to dispose of it once the cloth is tattered - this is common knowledge and specified in law books).
« Last Edit: December 31, 2013, 02:21:50 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
von Corax
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« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2013, 03:51:00 am »

Agreed. I should think that, with the exception of flags that are "not appropriate under any circumstance," the flying of an obsolete flag would be acceptable provided you have at least a semblance of a rationalization (logical or otherwise) and follow proper flag protocols (such as not giving it precedence over the flag of the country you're in.)
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Nathan Kowalski
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« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2014, 02:08:04 pm »

I am trying to create a flag for a 17th century alternate timeline of my micronation, which is set in the Carpathian Mountains of Eastern Europe (originally during the early 20th century, but I have decided to diversify).

During this time, it was a Republic/ Commonwealth with universal representation under the auspices of Kazimierz Bogdan Gorski the Mechanist. He ruled between 1648 until his death in 1714. He is also an eccentric inventor and builds clockwork contraptions similar to those of Leonardo Da Vinci in a secret workshop beneath his palace. He was occasionally an adventurer during his younger years, and is exceptionally well travelled. I imagine him having a chupryna/ oseledets haircut and conspicuous facial hair and wearing a kolpak or kuczma (a high-crowned fur cap), kontusz (a long robe with split sleeves), zupan (a long garment worn under the kontusz), pas kontuszowy (a wide silk sash), sharovary (poofy pants), tarsoly (a horseman's flat leather bag similar to a sabretache), and a szabla (a type of Polish saber) with a thumb ring on the hilt in the style of the 17th century. Maybe he would also wear spectacles.
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Camellia Wingnut
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« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2014, 09:23:46 pm »

My Dear Fellow,
More power to you! (Provided you do not use it to commit atrocities like some Carpathians I could name.)
In designing your flag, crest, etc. you might want to create a tamga, a personal mark or brand used by Hungarians and others in eastern Europe. I think Poland used to have one on their flag.
There's an entry under Tamga in Wikipedia to suggest further research.
Regards,
C.W.
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Dr. Madd
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« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2014, 06:41:54 am »

I have a copy of the second CSA flag, too.
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« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2014, 11:24:16 am »

An unfortunate 'heads-up' for American readers - the "Gadsden" (Don't Tread on Me "rattlesnake" ) flag design, which is even available as a license plate design here in VA, has apparently taken on a rather sinister "I am an extreme Right-Wing anti-government radical" meaning here in the States, similar to the way the old Imperial German Navy ensign used to mean "I am German, but NOT a Nazi sympathizer" (as flown by John Wayne in "The Sea Chase"), but has become unfortunately-adopted by various white-supremacist organizations in the States in the past decade or so.

Flying a "misunderstood" flag can get you into trouble. Please be careful and do your homework.


Very sound advice, which also applies to the previously mentioned Confederate Stars and Bars which has sadly had its historical meaning ruined by being co-opted by numerous racist organizations.

 Right now I have no flags flying, however for awhile I did display the (also previously mentioned) First and Second Confederate flags in my room. At the time I was quite enamored with the film Gettysburg, and having grown up in the South, had some sympathies for the Confederate cause (barring the whole issue of slavery of course).
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Rory B Esq BSc
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« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2014, 02:40:45 pm »

My steampunked flag suggestions...

Airship pirate... white cog and crossed spanners on a black ground
Southern states...replace the stars with cogs on the 'stars and bars'
Mad Inventor...white profile of Tesla on a dark blue ground with 4 diagonal lightning bolts
Krypozoologist ... red question mark centered in 'crosshairs' gunsight
'queer gear' types...two meshing cogs with clock hands at 45degrees right for male male. Two meshing cogs with iron girders forming cross beneath for female female.
Clothing maker... two crossed 'needles and thread' on a violet ground.

That is how easy it is to come up with a steampunk flag, National flags can often be altered by simply adding a cog and 'country name...steampunk'.
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Steam Titan
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« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2014, 12:10:53 am »

The symbol I use for my steampunk character is a gear with a bolt inside of it. Can go on various backgrounds. Here it is on a favor sash to put pin gifts from people and stuff on. Made for Renfest but put the gear on so can wear to cons too.



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pakled
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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2014, 04:25:53 am »

Re the CSA Battle Flag - IIRC, the aspect ratio of the battle flag was square; the '3x5' is a modern affectation. Actually, I seem to recall 5 CSA flags, but I'd have to look it up to be sure...
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MWBailey
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rtafStElmo
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2014, 10:42:05 pm »

Contrary to popular belief, the song "The Bonny Blue Flag" refers not to the "Stars and Bars," but rather to a certain blue-and-white (if i am not mistaken) ensign.

Aha! See this article in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Blue_Flag
« Last Edit: October 06, 2014, 10:50:48 pm by MWBailey » Logged
Will Howard
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« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2014, 11:00:34 pm »

Re the CSA Battle Flag - IIRC, the aspect ratio of the battle flag was square; the '3x5' is a modern affectation. Actually, I seem to recall 5 CSA flags, but I'd have to look it up to be sure...

The battle flags for ground forces were square.  48" x 48" for Infantry, 36" x 36" for Artillery, & 30"x30" for Cavalry.  The "3' x 5'" is the Naval Jack.
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« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2014, 11:02:21 pm »

Contrary to popular belief, the song "The Bonny Blue Flag" refers not to the "Stars and Bars," but rather to a certain blue-and-white (if i am not mistaken) ensign.

Aha! See this article in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Blue_Flag



Intrestingly enough, a flag identical to the "Bonnie Blue Flag" is currently the national flag of Somalia.
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Dr. Madd
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« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2014, 07:04:32 am »

I disagree regarding the Gadsen banner. The Media would have people believed the people flying it to be extremists. I know who they are talking about. I know these people personally. They're not extremists. Just fed up.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2014, 08:31:01 am »

Re the CSA Battle Flag - IIRC, the aspect ratio of the battle flag was square; the '3x5' is a modern affectation. Actually, I seem to recall 5 CSA flags, but I'd have to look it up to be sure...


Well I don't know about 5 flags, but at least 4 official discounting the Bonnie Flag; you can read the previous page and Wiki   Roll Eyes http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=k3jjqmgnk61jtjurrf1n9gomh3&topic=41898.msg883203#msg883203

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America

(Note Mozilla is for the time being is not displaying the flags correctly - use Chrome or another web browser - probably some Java script gone awry).
« Last Edit: October 07, 2014, 08:45:20 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Rory B Esq BSc
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« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2014, 05:47:20 pm »

Do any of our members 'over the pond'' know which flags the Black sharpshooters for the confederacy fought under?

That flag would be a good way to 'reclaim' a flag, as anyone questioning it could have the fact that it is a flag used by blacks pointed out so objecting to it is racist?
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Vagabond GentleMan
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« Reply #45 on: October 08, 2014, 08:09:09 pm »

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[/quote]

Perhaps I'm confused at your wording, friend Wilhelm, or perhaps I'm being pedantic, and if so, I apologize...but I don't think the U.S. flag is ever called the Union Jack.  I did some googling and couldn't find an example, so if it IS true, could you please cite a source?  I'm happy to be corrected if I'm mistaken. 
Generally the alias of the U.S. flag is the Old Glory, to my knowledge.
And I'm sure you simply misspoke, but it is indeed the Stars and Stripes rather than Bars and Stripes.

Stars and Bars is used to describe the CSA flag, and also the Washington D.C. flag, which is (factually or legendarily) based on the Heraldic Device of George Washington.

But moving on, the Jolly Roger is always the safest flag to fly, it's hard for anyone to get offended, and I am VERY emphatically enthused at the prospect of personalizing them!  The pirates of the Golden Age, legendarily, personalized their own (Teach's/Thatch's flag with the devil skeleton, Rackam's with the crossed swords, Every's with the skull in profile, etc.) and I've always felt that the Jolly Roger was the equivalent of an anarchist's or a rebel's or a free-man's/woman's heraldry...
Crossed flutes have been mentioned, as well as crossed banjos, add daggers, hourglasses, rayguns, flintlocks, bottles of booze, glasses of absinthe, molotov cocktails, glasses of wine, roses, put tophats or bowlers or aviator cowls or fascinators and beards and waxed moustaches and goggles on the skulls, give them dreadlocks, mohawks, braids, up-dos, buns, give them grillz or gold teeth, put them in profile, at 3/4" view, up-lit, down-lit, etc. ad finitum...

I've designed/drawn personalized Jolly Rogers for a good handful of friends and colleagues according to their own specifications, and am thinking of eventually publishing a coffee-table art book of them as an anecdotal visual study of contemporary bohemian symbolic identity...or something like that.
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« Reply #46 on: October 08, 2014, 08:35:28 pm »

@ Vagabond,
The 'Jolly Rodger' flag has many possibilities for steampunks, given it's many varients it should provide something for everyone.
As I tend towards an I.W.W. activist (the original 'rednecks') in my steampunk attire (sometimes accompanied by a suffragette) it has some appeal to me but I need to get something more than an inflatable dinghy built to do it justice.
Many years ago (about 20 ) I painted a Celtic Anarchist banner  and pictures of it are still circulating, so a good design can take on a life of it's own.
I'm trying to adapt the I.W.W. badge for steampunks....'Steampunks of the World Unite' kind of thing, but expect to use lots of paper before I'm happy with it.
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GCCC
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« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2014, 08:49:50 pm »

Do any of our members 'over the pond'' know which flags the Black sharpshooters for the confederacy fought under?

That flag would be a good way to 'reclaim' a flag, as anyone questioning it could have the fact that it is a flag used by blacks pointed out so objecting to it is racist?

No blacks served in the Confederacy willingly (they were either drafted or sent to serve in their master's place or accompanied their master as a servant), although Southern apologists certainly like to drag out the pictures to "prove" the war wasn't really about slavery. The Southern whitewashing of the causes for the rebellion demonstrates only that they choose to ignore the facts laid out in the articles of secession from the Confederate states.

What is your source for there being a black sharpshooter's unit? I can only find reference to one article from 2007 which is currently unavailable to me, making me believe it has been discredited. I am, of course, open to correction in the matter.

HOWEVER...

...As defending/debating this issue would violate one of the core principles of the Brass Goggles forum, I respectfully suggest to all that comments and discussions about "reclaiming" flags and otherwise discussing causes, motives, intended and unintended results, etc., of the various groups involved be suspended...in this forum. (Which means you may feel free to hurl your invectives my way via PM...)

So, let's return to flying those freaks! ...er, freak flags!
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Will Howard
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« Reply #48 on: October 11, 2014, 01:52:07 am »


No blacks served in the Confederacy willingly (they were either drafted or sent to serve in their master's place or accompanied their master as a servant),

Look up Holt Collier-  He had been freed, & he asked to join his former master's unit.  When told he was too young, he stowed away on a riverboat (? or train) & joined anyway.  He was already a renowned shot (killed his first bear at age 10).  He was later a guide for Teddy Roosevelt, during the hunt where the legend of the "Teddy Bear" began.  He may have been one of a very few, but he was NOT the only black to serve willingly.

Incidentally, while slavery was an issue (& an important one) for secession, it was not the only issue, nor the most important one,  Economics was more important a reason to many,  The government had put high tariffs (up to 52%) on imported tools & goods, so that the normally lower priced English & European goods now cost more than the New England-made goods.  The government wanted to force the South to "buy American" at a time when 70% to 80% of U. S. revenues came from taxes on cotton exports.   The South was providing roughly 75% of the government's income & still being forced to pay high prices.  "Big Business" influence on government policies is not a new thing.

Another seldom mentioned cause for pro-secession sentiments (especially in north & west Texas) was Indian raids.  Many Texans felt that the government was not doing enough to protect them from the Comanches & other tribes.



« Last Edit: October 11, 2014, 01:53:38 am by Will Howard » Logged
Burgess Shale
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« Reply #49 on: October 11, 2014, 03:56:48 am »

For some time now, I've wanted to make a Thulsa Doom flag from Conan the Barbarian, but with the two snake heads meeting over part of a gear instead of a sun.
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