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Author Topic: FLYING YOUR FREAK FLAG  (Read 4527 times)
Camellia Wingnut
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Take my camel, dear. . . .


« on: December 22, 2013, 02:46:15 am »

My Dears,
I have found a fascinating source of 3 x 5 reproduction historical flags in Hong Kong. For example, this one of the Governor-General of British India:
They are only $30.00, and would fly bravely from a turret, engine, or airship.
C.W.
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Take my camel, dear, said my aunt Camellia, climbing down from that animal on her return from high mass. The camel, a white Arabian Dhalur (single hump) from the famous herd of the Ruola tribe, had been a parting present, its saddle-bags stuffed with low-carat [sic] gold and flashy orient gems, from a rich desert tycoon. . . .
Maets
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2013, 02:52:39 am »

Web site?
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Atterton
Time Traveler
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Only The Shadow knows


« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2013, 04:16:33 am »

No, flag.

Does it say "Heaven light our guide"? Do they wish for some unfortunate tourist guide to be set aflame?
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von Corax
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Prof. Darwin Prætorius von Corax


« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 05:00:36 am »

No, flag.

Does it say "Heaven light our guide"? Do they wish for some unfortunate tourist guide to be set aflame?

I think it actually expresses the far less inflammatory sentiment "Heaven's Light Our Guide."
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Camellia Wingnut
Snr. Officer
****
United States Minor Outlying Islands United States Minor Outlying Islands


Take my camel, dear. . . .


« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2013, 09:57:42 am »

My Dear Fellows,
Do forgive me for omitting the flag link: http://www.ebay.com/usr/tatmingpoon3
The seller makes all kinds of curious and obscure flags, and everybody's favourite:
I have not been in contact with this seller, but it seems to me that he might do custom flags as well.
C.W.
P.S. There is also a seller who makes reproduction medals. Who doesn't want the Victoria Cross? Or the Order of the Garter?
http://www.ebay.com/sch/shopbags/m.html?item=231120050849&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 10:22:24 am by Camellia Wingnut » Logged
frances
Zeppelin Captain
*****
United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2013, 11:03:53 pm »

Can I just mention that if you use an actual flag in the wrong place, or wear an existing medal or emblem that is not rightly yours, then people get very, very upset.  Therefore it is always better to make up your own flag etc design.  There is a college of 'something' in England (cannot remember the exact name at present, is it heralds?) that you can use to check that your emblem has not already been used.
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Camellia Wingnut
Snr. Officer
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Take my camel, dear. . . .


« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 02:43:57 am »

My Dear Frances,
I had not meant to upset anyone. The idea was that these flags and medals are obsolete, and therefore inoffensive. The College of Heralds might disagree. If so, I do apologize.
C.W.
P.S. The Keep Calm flag, for instance, is not (yet) the flag of a sovereign nation.
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jringling
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 03:18:07 am »

Not to thread-jack, but...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Sorry, please carry on...
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Sorontar
Zeppelin Admiral
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Australia Australia


All ideas should have wings


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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 03:22:58 am »

Interesting topic. Would people prefer to fly their ship's flag or that of their unit/country/monarch?
Would you prefer a symbol or a motto to be displayed?
Would you have a flag or a pennant or what? (pennant , Flag )

Sorontar
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 03:24:29 am by Sorontar » Logged

Sorontar, Captain of 'The Aethereal Dancer'
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Dr. Madd
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 04:01:39 am »



How about this one?
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von Corax
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 04:17:04 am »

My Dear Fellows,
[…]
P.S. There is also a seller who makes reproduction medals. Who doesn't want the Victoria Cross? Or the Order of the Garter?

My dear Aunt Camellia:

Not to rain on your parade, but the matter of medals has been discussed repeatedly and at some length, and the general consensus is that wearing actual awards of merit which you have not earned (with very specific exceptions) is a faux pas of the most egregious sort.
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Hurricane Annie
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New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 04:22:09 am »

No, flag.

Does it say "Heaven light our guide"? Do they wish for some unfortunate tourist guide to be set aflame?

I think it actually expresses the far less inflammatory sentiment "Heaven's Light Our Guide."

 Is it just me or does  the motto  suggest  a request for another party to be struck by lightening from  the heavens above ??
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Camellia Wingnut
Snr. Officer
****
United States Minor Outlying Islands United States Minor Outlying Islands


Take my camel, dear. . . .


« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 06:47:29 am »

My Dears,
I am getting the impression that the person who will be struck by lightning is myself; I withdraw this thread unconditionally, and hope in time to be forgiven my faux pas.
C.W.
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Arabella Periscope
Zeppelin Captain
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United States United States


Edwardian summer


« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 08:23:22 am »

At what point does wearing a sheriff's star or a king's crown or a captain's cap or a costume medal cease to be fun and begin to be an offensive claim to an honor to which one is not entitled?  There are obvious stylistic disclaimers in these cases, surely, and who are these people who police such matters?
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Terence Rattigan 'French Without Tears.'
von Corax
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« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 09:29:49 am »

At what point does wearing a sheriff's star or a king's crown or a captain's cap or a costume medal cease to be fun and begin to be an offensive claim to an honor to which one is not entitled?  There are obvious stylistic disclaimers in these cases, surely, and who are these people who police such matters?

Ah, but a costume medal, badge, rank &c. does not constitute an actual honour or award of merit. Something like the Victoria Cross, on the other hand, represents recognition of acts of the most extreme bravery and valour; to wear such a medal without having earned it is, in effect, to belittle the sacrifices of those who have earned it. The exceptions would be the wearing of medals awarded to a late spouse or parent (and where such display is not illegal, there is a specific display protocol to clarify that they are not one's own honours,) or in the portrayal of an actual historical figure who did earn those honours.

I point you to your own country's Stolen Valor Act of 2005/2013, which makes it a criminal offense to wear a Congressional Medal of Honor to which one is not entitled, punishable by a fine of up to $100,000 and up to one year imprisonment.

It is not a matter of "policing," but rather a matter of respect for the significance of the award and those who have truly earned it. This is the reason most of us confine ourselves to creating fictitious "awards of merit" and "service medals."
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Sorontar
Zeppelin Admiral
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Australia Australia


All ideas should have wings


WWW
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2013, 11:16:24 am »

Please, let's stop the talk of medals and start talking flags and banners! I want to know what flags you fly.

I used to regularly pass a flag collector's front yard and it was always a challenge to recognise which flag they were flying that day.

Sorontar
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Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
*****
New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2013, 10:17:28 pm »

At what point does wearing a sheriff's star or a king's crown or a captain's cap or a costume medal cease to be fun and begin to be an offensive claim to an honor to which one is not entitled?  There are obvious stylistic disclaimers in these cases, surely, and who are these people who police such matters?



 This lil fellow will be rounding you all up for crimes against badges


sounds like a tough job, here's what one chap was driven to when he fell off the milk wagon

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1184341/How-Milkybar-kid-drunk--showjumper-musician-gardener-We-stars-rode-sunset.html
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Hurricane Annie
Zeppelin Captain
*****
New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2013, 10:33:19 pm »


On a more serious note.  To keep the thread relevant and on stream; I have in my possession a remnant of the rugby world cup some years ago.    These  classic and timeless items of good taste taste  and classic decor were being tossed out at bargain  prices

 I have not so far been able to deduce were I should display it.



 I was able to blag this fine souvenir on a similar occasion .

All polite and sensible suggestions will be taken on board

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Arabella Periscope
Zeppelin Captain
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United States United States


Edwardian summer


« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2013, 10:37:44 pm »

Sir, you are absolutely correct about the serious impersonation of a war hero, which idea would shock anyone in their right mind.  I have personal knowledge of Great-Aunt Camellia's own losses in WWII, and if she saw such a poseur his scars or amputations would soon be genuine indeed.  My father is a retired naval officer with medals of which we are proud, and at Halloween he has been known to dress up as Captain of the Titanic, covered in frost and seaweed, and he of all people would honor a captain who went down with his ship.   Impersonation of a hero or claims to unmerited valor are not in question here.  Sometimes one's 'tone of voice'  Wink -- I believe she was thinking of 'Flashy' -- does not come across in the written text. 

Flags, dear Sorontar, are 'ideas with wings,' in a way, aren't they?  And it would be fun to fly each our own banner with a strange device?  Tempting to design one and have it snapping bravely from the mast or aerial or gatepost, being careful not to incense anyone from a college of heraldry. Smiley

Happy New Year!

Arabella
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frances
Zeppelin Captain
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United Kingdom United Kingdom



« Reply #19 on: December 30, 2013, 12:31:16 am »

Hurricane Annie - would you care to list the different countries that these flags come from?

I believe that it is quite customary to fly different country's flags if people from different countries are present at an event.  I am not sure of the protocol of using actual real flags just for decoration, as at a country fete or birthday party etc.
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von Corax
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Prof. Darwin Prætorius von Corax


« Reply #20 on: December 30, 2013, 01:13:12 am »

I do apologize; I was unaware of Auntie Camellia's family history and beg forgiveness if my words or tone have caused offense. (The VC is the Empire & Commonwealth equivalent of the CMoH, and I couldn't imagine what one would do with a repro other than wear it.)

The flags, on the other hand, are splendid; I see all three versions of the Canadian National Red Ensign, as well as the first proposed (and rejected) replacement from 1946. This has also inspired me to look up Heritage Canada's flag protocol guidelines.

I believe that it is quite customary to fly different country's flags if people from different countries are present at an event.  I am not sure of the protocol of using actual real flags just for decoration, as at a country fete or birthday party etc.

According to Heritage Canada's guidelines, the "host country" flag goes in the centre of a three-flag display, or to the observer's far left in a group of two, four or more. I believe the recommended protocol is to avoid using real flags as decorative elements and to use bunting or banners instead, although these may certainly incorporate elements of the actual flag's design.
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Hurricane Annie
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*****
New Zealand New Zealand



« Reply #21 on: December 30, 2013, 03:21:11 am »

Hurricane Annie - would you care to list the different countries that these flags come from?

I believe that it is quite customary to fly different country's flags if people from different countries are present at an event.  I am not sure of the protocol of using actual real flags just for decoration, as at a country fete or birthday party etc.

 There were buntings  and  flags flying from houses, businesses and vehicles. [ just off the top of my head]  Wink

 France, Argentina, Australia , Japan, Wales,
Canada, Scotland , Portugal, New Zealand , Italy
Republic of Ireland,  Taiwan, South Africa, USA , England,
Romania, Tonga , Fiji, Georgia, Namibia

 

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J. Wilhelm
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Sentisne fortunatum punkus? Veni. Diem meum comple


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« Reply #22 on: December 30, 2013, 05:58:10 am »

Which is why I content myself with being the Admiral of US Airship Command, and the only two flags I need to fly are a fictitious flag of a military service which never existed and the Union Jack (yes we call it that also) aka the 'Bars and Stripes" of which I'm entirely entitled to fly as an American Citizen....



And perhaps as well the flag of the State of Texas since I am a resident, taxpayer and all that jazz. This flag was adopted when Texas was an independent nation (1836-1845). It was first flown in 1839


Prior to that was the "Burnet Flag" (1836-1839)


but note that after the American Civil War the state had no flag and the 1839 flag was not re-adopted until 1933, so it only used the Confederate Flag during the war (see my post below) and the Union Jack after the war during tge "Reconstruction Period".


There were however a myriad of unofficial and semi-official Revolutionary flags (independence from Mexico flags)


 Grin









And some unofficial flags during the secession of southern states from the US prior to the Civil War


« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 09:56:39 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #23 on: December 30, 2013, 06:08:32 am »



How about this one?



I think you know this already, but that flag was never the official flag of the Confederate States of America, but rather these three:

1st Flag of the CSA 1861-63:


2nd Flag of the CSA 1863-65:


3rd. Flag of the CSA : 1865


The flag you show is the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, to be precise:
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2013, 08:46:11 am »

Now for Steampunk and historical re-enactment purposes, I wonder how appropriate it is to fly the flag of other nations.  I do understand the concept of not trying to appropriate titles and privileges that one does not deserve, but that presumes that you are appropriating such privileges in lieu of the people truly entitled.

What happens if this is the flag of a defunct government?  Would flying such a flag be appropriate?

Mexico having a rich history starting in 1512 with the Conquest had flown a good number of flags:

Viceroyalty of New Spain (1535-1550 and 1821 (durimg the War for Independence)


Viceroyalty of New Spain (Spanish Flag) Until 1821


Mexican Independence flag, 1821 "The flag of the Three Guarantees"


Flag of the First Mexican Empire, Headed by Emperor Agustin I (Fmr. General Agustin de Iturbide), 1821

Click for enlarged view
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Flag of the Mexican Republic after Iturbide (1824-1864)


Flag of the Second Mexican Empire under Emperor Maximilian I 1864-1867 ( Fmr. Prince Ferdinand Maximilian Joseph of Austria-House of Habsburg-Lorraine), supported by French occupation

Click for enlarged view
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Finally the President in Exile, Benito Juarez, re-instated the 1824-1864 Republic flag (above),


only to have the flag be re-designed by President Porfirio Diaz - a great architect of industrial progress (British and American oil and railways) and pusher of strong foreign relations with France UK and US,leadimg to waves of migration of wealthy Europeans to Mexico, but a despot hated by the common folk, who accused him of European favoritism and someone who triggered the Mexican Civil War (and hence the origin of lots of photographs and moving pictures of peasants riding on steam locomotives).  The flag was flown from Diaz latter days through to a period after the Civil War (1893-1916)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)



Lots of flags.  All very nice and can be placed historically for serious and fantasy purposes alike.  Which are appropriate to display and which are not?
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 10:04:07 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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