How not to Kickstart, a lesson and a warning for those chasing the Brass Pound

[The Sammy]

Now now gentlemen, I think you've made your point. Let's all take a step back and calm down, eh?
~Longeye~

[Prof Marvel]

Now now gentlemen, I think you've made your point. Let's all take a step back and calm down, eh?
~Longeye~

But My Dear Augustus,
I was just getting a new kettle of popcorn started!
yhs
prof (popcorn) marvel

[Madasasteamfish]

Just thought I'd bump this up since the KS project has ended, and you lot probably want to know how it went.

Well I can reveal that our 'friend' Thundy a.k.a Mr M Belshaw of Portsmouth succeeded in raising a grand total of *drum roll please*

:

 £1

Yes that's right Ladies and Gentlemen he managed to raise a single solitary pound out of the 40,000 he had hoped to raise, or
*deep breath*
[spoiler] 0.0025% of the total 

[/spoiler]

[Drew P]

But...but, he was so sure of himself...

 

[Madasasteamfish]

But...but, he was so sure of himself...

 

I know, personally I can't believe he failed. The way he responded to our comments made me sure he'd succeed easily.

[akumabito]

That's 1 quid minus 5% kickstarter fees and 20-something percent in taxes. Proper job!

[DreamHazard]

actually, that's £0.00. Kickstarter doesn't pay out unless the target is met, The cash is held in escrow and refunded if the target is not met.

[Madasasteamfish]

actually, that's £0.00. Kickstarter doesn't pay out unless the target is met, The cash is held in escrow and refunded if the target is not met.

Ah, good to know Grelym will get his pound back.

[Major Wolfram Quicksilver]

Hmmmm.   Been into steampunk for a very long time, been on here less than 24 hours after registering.  That's not 24 hours spent on this site, that's registered : November 28, 2013, 09:03:02 am, and last active:  November 29, 2013, 07:35:48 am

Would one like some cream for that butthurt, Sir?

[SeVeNeVeS]

As a fellow Portmuthian (a now accepted term for an individual living in said city) I have been watching this thread with interest.

At first I thought you guys were pretty harsh.

Yep, far too much money but give a guy a chance........

I have studied all the links and replies and I tend to agree with previous posts.

At best a mediocre photographer with only one photo on his website of interest, which screams to me " chuck on some goggles and call it steampunk"........ Umm with a camera and  decent model even I could do better.

I wish the OP every luck in his future endeavours tho, at least the thought was there I suppose.

~SeVeN~

[Prof Marvel]

Yes, it is far more effective to approach potential investors as tho you were making a job application. Politeness, a portfolio of past success, an easily verifiable track record, and most important, lose the attitude.
One is, after all, literally "schmoozing for funding" and the sooner the OP learns the fine arts of this task, the better.

One would hope this individual is learning (can we say school of hard knocks?) but the patternof his posts suggests otherwise.

Since the popcorn is about gone I am starting a punchbowl of spiced cider ...

please forgive any typos & etc as I am doing this on a new xmas nook (he said, getting dragged kicking and screaming into the XXth century )
yhs
prof (fumbly) marvel

[Madasasteamfish]

As a fellow Portmuthian (a now accepted term for an individual living in said city) I have been watching this thread with interest.

At first I thought you guys were pretty harsh.

Yep, far too much money but give a guy a chance........

Well I don't think we were unduly, or unfairly harsh, I mean the guy did come in breaking forum etiquette and duplicating threads with misleading titles (the original thread title(s) suggested that he was after contributors rather than just a huge wodge of cash), with a massive and impractical ask (in order to succeed he'd have to have averaged over £1000 in donations per day) but the idea did show some promise and could have worked (the basic premise seemed to be near identical to that of The Steampunk Bible) if he'd put some more thought into it and developed it more (I mean the overall vibe I got from the guy and his kickstarter page was that he'd come up with the idea in the pub, and having got a good response from the people he was drinking with decided to go with it off the back of the envelope), particularly since the only reason he gave as to why he needed so much money was 'to pay the contributers' (in complete contradiction to any and all business sense) and he refused to share any calculations to show how and where the cash would go.

In all fairness to the guy, I don't think he really talked himself out of any support until he turned round and said (in essence) 'If you're not going to donate then you can 'f' off. I don't care what you think about the project.' In reality I think that was his biggest mistake, followed by not sticking around (as Maj Q pointed out, he was on here for less than a single day and this thread contains the totality of his posts) which shows a pretty comprehensive lack of interest in his own project.

[SeVeNeVeS]

As a fellow Portmuthian (a now accepted term for an individual living in said city) I have been watching this thread with interest.

At first I thought you guys were pretty harsh.

Yep, far too much money but give a guy a chance........

Well I don't think we were unduly, or unfairly harsh, I mean the guy did come in breaking forum etiquette and duplicating threads with misleading titles (the original thread title(s) suggested that he was after contributors rather than just a huge wodge of cash), with a massive and impractical ask (in order to succeed he'd have to have averaged over £1000 in donations per day) but the idea did show some promise and could have worked (the basic premise seemed to be near identical to that of The Steampunk Bible) if he'd put some more thought into it and developed it more (I mean the overall vibe I got from the guy and his kickstarter page was that he'd come up with the idea in the pub, and having got a good response from the people he was drinking with decided to go with it off the back of the envelope), particularly since the only reason he gave as to why he needed so much money was 'to pay the contributers' (in complete contradiction to any and all business sense) and he refused to share any calculations to show how and where the cash would go.

In all fairness to the guy, I don't think he really talked himself out of any support until he turned round and said (in essence) 'If you're not going to donate then you can 'f' off. I don't care what you think about the project.' In reality I think that was his biggest mistake, followed by not sticking around (as Maj Q pointed out, he was on here for less than a single day and this thread contains the totality of his posts) which shows a pretty comprehensive lack of interest in his own project.

I totally agree, just another band jumper. If he had any previous steamy photos in his portfolio I was going to PM him and offer stuff in my house for props if required, free of charge.

The resulting sh!tty attitude and lack of response to this thread put me off big time.(plus lack of time here means he wouldnt actually get the PM)

Maybe he will have more luck with the soft nude stuff, who knows?

~SeVeN~

[Madasasteamfish]

As a fellow Portmuthian (a now accepted term for an individual living in said city) I have been watching this thread with interest.

At first I thought you guys were pretty harsh.

Yep, far too much money but give a guy a chance........

Well I don't think we were unduly, or unfairly harsh, I mean the guy did come in breaking forum etiquette and duplicating threads with misleading titles (the original thread title(s) suggested that he was after contributors rather than just a huge wodge of cash), with a massive and impractical ask (in order to succeed he'd have to have averaged over £1000 in donations per day) but the idea did show some promise and could have worked (the basic premise seemed to be near identical to that of The Steampunk Bible) if he'd put some more thought into it and developed it more (I mean the overall vibe I got from the guy and his kickstarter page was that he'd come up with the idea in the pub, and having got a good response from the people he was drinking with decided to go with it off the back of the envelope), particularly since the only reason he gave as to why he needed so much money was 'to pay the contributers' (in complete contradiction to any and all business sense) and he refused to share any calculations to show how and where the cash would go.

In all fairness to the guy, I don't think he really talked himself out of any support until he turned round and said (in essence) 'If you're not going to donate then you can 'f' off. I don't care what you think about the project.' In reality I think that was his biggest mistake, followed by not sticking around (as Maj Q pointed out, he was on here for less than a single day and this thread contains the totality of his posts) which shows a pretty comprehensive lack of interest in his own project.

I totally agree, just another band jumper. If he had any previous steamy photos in his portfolio I was going to PM him and offer stuff in my house for props if required, free of charge.

The resulting sh!tty attitude and lack of response to this thread put me off big time.(plus lack of time here means he wouldnt actually get the PM)

Maybe he will have more luck with the soft nude stuff, who knows?

~SeVeN~

Well I certainly don't. Personally I wonder where he got his info on SP from since he's obviously not been involved in the community (despite what he claimed) given how derisive he got of our input.

TBH given his attitude I doubt I'll fund any other project I see him proposing (and probably advise anyone else against investing).

[George Salt]

There's a lot of folk like him on Kickstarter, even more on the less moderated crowd funding sites.. they just don't get what it's about.  Give something to get something.

[Prof Marvel]

I hate to post this with what little we know, but based on the following synopsis:
 - the OP's initial post, with all his excitement and  few details
 - followed by his protests ( ie:" I am a pro, I do not need to justify myself to you or anyone" )
- followed by his blunt refusal to provide details
- followed by the figurtive " f-off I don't need you

This pattern matches exactly the encounters I have had with snake-oil merchants, scammers, and gypsies trying to sell "new" items from the back of an unmarked van ...

ultimately if the OP is flustered when required to provide justification, the entire project does not bode well


yhs
prof marvel

[Madasasteamfish]

I hate to post this with what little we know, but based on the following synopsis:
 - the OP's initial post, with all his excitement and  few details
 - followed by his protests ( ie:" I am a pro, I do not need to justify myself to you or anyone" )
- followed by his blunt refusal to provide details
- followed by the figurtive " f-off I don't need you

This pattern matches exactly the encounters I have had with snake-oil merchants, scammers, and gypsies trying to sell "new" items from the back of an unmarked van ...

ultimately if the OP is flustered when required to provide justification, the entire project does not bode well


yhs
prof marvel

Well as far as I can tell, he is actually a professional photographer and runs his own business (I managed to find his CV online) and this was (in at least parts) a legitimate business proposal. But with regards to his conduct and pitch it seems he's heard about Steampunk (probably from someone in a pub or similar), done a bit of research and decided he could do something with it and then he's come up with this proposal as a vanity project (probably to help him market his business rather than because any particular interest in SP) and wanted our cash in order to fund it as a side project rather than a viable project within itself.

[Gremlyn]

I got my buck back!

[FenrisWolf]

Well as far as I can tell, he is actually a professional photographer and runs his own business (I managed to find his CV online) and this was (in at least parts) a legitimate business proposal. But with regards to his conduct and pitch it seems he's heard about Steampunk (probably from someone in a pub or similar), done a bit of research and decided he could do something with it and then he's come up with this proposal as a vanity project (probably to help him market his business rather than because any particular interest in SP) and wanted our cash in order to fund it as a side project rather than a viable project within itself.

You ought to see his facebook page... the Ego has landed!

[Drew P]

And he's a body builder,no, no ego there.

Definitely, NOT my style of photography.

[Lady Ava]

Posting a thread in two places due to the first post being less appropriate doesnt make me a spammer.

posting a thread asking for money in several places IS regarded as spam on this community. The board is split into appropriate sections, and the rules are pretty clear as to where things should go; you show us disrespect by not adhering to them.

I appreciate the pearls of wisdom from strangers. As i said before, if you don't have any way to demonstrate that you are actually qualified to make such recommendations, then i will completely ignore it, and i really dont care if you think it is a lt of money or not, that is the project goal.. end of discussion.

We get people on here asking for money all the time. We see patterns in people's requests and know how to point them in the right direction.

If you don't want to contribute, i honestly don't care. And i really don't need to know your reasons, no matter how much you feel you need to share them with me. And "be lenient with me"?? you don't speak for the entire community and you sure as heck dont have any authority over me. I'm not going to stop my project just because a handful of forumites think that Hiring professionals to do a job in some way makes it less authentic. You don't own the monopoly on the genre any more than someone who learns klingon has the right to tell people they cant write fan fiction about star trek.

Way to make us feel involved in your project.

As for "justifying" my costs, with a bunch of strangers, that isnt going to happen. Ive been a photographer and engineering contractor for a long time and i know how much it costs to get things done. I'm certainly not posting my financial and tax calculations all over the net for the world to scrutinise.

if you were to go to the bank to ask them for money, you'd have to have a damn good proposal, including, yes, justification for your costs. Why should crowdfunding be any different? You expect a bunch of people to give you something for nothing out of the kindness of their hearts, and expect us to just accept your assurance that all the money is going into the project.

It really is this simple. If you want to contribute, your support is gratefully accepted. If you don't want to contribute, save yourself the effort of telling me why, because ill ignore it, just move on.

It really is this simple. If you want us to give you money, don't treat us like scum.

Mods are welcome to delete this thread if they wish. Since i've had nothing but negativity hidden behind false reason and imaginary expertise, i'm past caring. Excellent way to introduce new people into your community by the way. Think i'll stick with the thousand other steampunk forums, where i've had wonderful support and encouragement.

people have made an effort to help you, and you've thrown it in their faces. You claim we haven't welcomed you into the community, well you'd have been a lot more welcome if you hadn't asked us for money the same day you'd joined. This is a community built on trust, and that trust has to be earned. If you'd spent maybe a week or two getting to know people before asking them for money, they may have been a lot more accepting of your request; and you may have learned for yourself how better to propose your ideas.

this so-called "negativity hidden behind false reason and imaginary expertise" is your perception of people trying to help you. No-one's told you to piss off, and believe me, if that's what they were thinking, that's what they would have said. The "false" reason is just plain reason. YOU'RE pitching to US, we're just telling you how to make us more likely to back your idea, because at the moment your proposal is pretty thin. The "imaginary" expertise comes from a community of makers, illustrators, photographers, many of whom have forged a lifestyle of their creativity, and have a hell of a lot more experience in this field than your proposal suggests you have. Perhaps taking their advice might be the better course of action?

As for all those communities where you've had wonderful support and encouragement, that's clearly reflected in the number of people who have backed your project already. I'll save people the effort of clicking through to find out how much backing you've had: 0.

Oh DreamHazard, your posts are always some of my favourites.

[Prof Marvel]

My Dear Netizens ----

and now, since beating a dead horse always makes it move faster ( according the management, at least)
I am reviving this thread to offer a shining example of a web-funded Photo Book that succeeded:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/happy-end-a-photo-book-about-miracles-in-aviation-history?c=activity

this guy succeeded. Spectacularly.
Thundy did not. -
One wonders why - in his defense, Thundy was planning ( and apparently wished to fund) "new photo shoots".

note that in Dietmar's case
= he already had all the images
= he had the project essentially laid out, planned, and bids in place by the printer and binder
= he had an already established positive reputation
= he only asked for $4000 to print bind and ship a run of limited editions  (not 40,000 GBP == 66576.00 US Dollar !!! )
= he achieved his goal in less than a week, then achieved  a total of more than $57,000, which was put into more books
= he had accountability and an open line of communication
= his public communications are positive and professional

If one googles Dietmar Ekcell one finds many links to a happy positive photographer who seems very polite & upbeat

If one googles Matt Belshaw .... we do not find much on photography,  and well, this seems to sum him up
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/matt-belshaw/32/b7/6b1
and
his tweets , whilst amusing , do not lend confidence to investing in him:
https://twitter.com/MattBelshaw

I respect and admire his Service in the Royal Navy and Defence Sector. With his fitness endevour, he appears to be branching out into professional (modeling) photography as well, and perhaps trying to reinvent himself. 

He reminds me in a way of Vagabond Gentleman ( who I miss here) and I expect I would get along famously with Matt  in person, but he is missing the concept of establishing a positive and professional WEB presence which is crucial to obtain positive funding results.

It does not take much to google a person, and then form a lasting opinion, based on what one finds, good or bad.

yhs
prof marvel

[Madasasteamfish]

My Dear Netizens ----

and now, since beating a dead horse always makes it move faster ( according the management, at least)
I am reviving this thread to offer a shining example of a web-funded Photo Book that succeeded:

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/happy-end-a-photo-book-about-miracles-in-aviation-history?c=activity

this guy succeeded. Spectacularly.
Thundy did not. -
One wonders why - in his defense, Thundy was planning ( and apparently wished to fund) "new photo shoots".

note that in Dietmar's case
= he already had all the images
= he had the project essentially laid out, planned, and bids in place by the printer and binder
= he had an already established positive reputation
= he only asked for $4000 to print bind and ship a run of limited editions  (not 40,000 GBP == 66576.00 US Dollar !!! )
= he achieved his goal in less than a week, then achieved  a total of more than $57,000, which was put into more books
= he had accountability and an open line of communication
= his public communications are positive and professional

If one googles Dietmar Ekcell one finds many links to a happy positive photographer who seems very polite & upbeat

If one googles Matt Belshaw .... we do not find much on photography,  and well, this seems to sum him up
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/matt-belshaw/32/b7/6b1
and
his tweets , whilst amusing , do not lend confidence to investing in him:
https://twitter.com/MattBelshaw

I respect and admire his Service in the Royal Navy and Defence Sector. With his fitness endevour, he appears to be branching out into professional (modeling) photography as well, and perhaps trying to reinvent himself. 

He reminds me in a way of Vagabond Gentleman ( who I miss here) and I expect I would get along famously with Matt  in person, but he is missing the concept of establishing a positive and professional WEB presence which is crucial to obtain positive funding results.

It does not take much to google a person, and then form a lasting opinion, based on what one finds, good or bad.

yhs
prof marvel

Tbh I'm not sure how much use this thread (and these examples) would be to anyone other than new or existing members planning on creating a similar KS project (it's certainly not going to be of any use to Thundy since judging by his personal/professional twitter feed (it seems to be his own twitter feed but links to his business' fb page), where I've noticed he accused me and FerrisWolf of trolling WTF ) he seems rather determined to fail in both this venture and the world of business more generally.

Then again, I suspect the mods may have left this thread up as a 'how NOT to' guide for future reference.

[Prof Marvel]

Tbh I'm not sure how much use this thread (and these examples) would be to anyone other than new or existing members planning on creating a similar KS project (it's certainly not going to be of any use to Thundy since judging by his personal/professional twitter feed (it seems to be his own twitter feed but links to his business' fb page), where I've noticed he accused me and FerrisWolf of trolling ???WTF???) he seems rather determined to fail in both this venture and the world of business more generally.

Then again, I suspect the mods may have left this thread up as a 'how NOT to' guide for future reference.

True, and yet beating a dead horse has so much entertainment value! 
And one seldom hears complaints from the horse 

yhs
prof marvel

[Major Willoughby Chase]

I think this horse has had enough of a flogging now.

Locked, stickied, pruned, screenshot of fundraiser added to first post, member banned (just in case he decides editing his posts is a good idea).  

To those who come here seeking our money,

Be warned, you're not the first. Over the years we've heard so many ideas from people who have just found steampunk and decided it's a great way to make money.  If you want our money you are going to have to work very hard to earn it. Throwing your toys out of the pram the first time any of us questions your methods will get you only one thing and it's not our money.  

We certainly expect you to put in more time to the community than this ...

    First post (this thread) ... « on: 28 November 2013, 09:10:34 »