The Fourth Doctor Who Thread - with a huge scarf

[Maudlin Hart]

^Nope nope nope. Regenerations are a Time Lord thing, you have to go to the Academy to be a Time Lord, regular Gallifreyans aren't Time Lords. I was very grateful that this episode showed non-Time Lord Gallifreyans! There are a lot of misconceptions about Gallifrey since the reboot...

[Ada Thorold]

Also (lore question), can all Gallifreyans regenerate, or is this a special privilege granted to those accepted into the Academy?

If River Song and Jenny are any indication, it's genetic and present in anyone with Gallifreyan DNA.

I thought River's regenerations were due to Amy and Rory's exposure to the time vortex, so it seemed to be acquired rather than genetic. And did Jenny actually regenerate, she kept the same face and there was no glow.

~A~

[Oneiros]

I'm intrigued to see what the people who design the cheaper sonic screwdriver toys will make of the sequential spinning light effect.

It should be an easy effect. I'm going to have a go at building my own version. I just have to wait for the bits to arrive through the post.

I think I can do it with 4 LED's, 4 Resisters, 2 Transistors and 2 Capacitors, and a 9v Battery.

[Crescat Scientia]

^Nope nope nope. Regenerations are a Time Lord thing, you have to go to the Academy to be a Time Lord, regular Gallifreyans aren't Time Lords. I was very grateful that this episode showed non-Time Lord Gallifreyans! There are a lot of misconceptions about Gallifrey since the reboot...

What exactly is there to farm on Gallifrey?

[19th Century Space Pilot]

Since the Timelords can grant regeneration cycles, and since (according to the Doctor Who wiki) there are differences between regular Gallifreyans and Timelords, my headcanon is that Gallifreyans cannot naturally regenerate; however, if they get accepted into the Timelord academy they will be granted a regeneration cycle, along with other augmentations. I don't think Jenny can regenerate fully, but she did seem to inherit some ability to repair her body (though that could just be a Gallifreyan thing, since they're a lot more durable that humans). River, I think, was granted a cycle by the TARDIS herself (the TARDIS has been seen to aid in regeneration, has it not?).

As for whether Gallifreyans and Humans can interbreed, my epileptic tree is that the Gallifreyans are an offshoot of humanity. We know humans developed time travel at some point, and also that a lot of "alien" species are indistinguishable from humans, even when they're visiting a time before humanity began it's interstellar colonisation, so it appears to be that humans started colonies throughout time as well as space. One of which, settled near the beginning (time travel leads to interesting arms races), could have developed a civilisation that has near-complete mastery over time...

[Caledonian]

^Nope nope nope. Regenerations are a Time Lord thing, you have to go to the Academy to be a Time Lord, regular Gallifreyans aren't Time Lords. I was very grateful that this episode showed non-Time Lord Gallifreyans! There are a lot of misconceptions about Gallifrey since the reboot...

What exactly is there to farm on Gallifrey?

Tardisses are grown, Are they not? Someone should breed/farm tardisses then. And gallifreyans have to eat SOMETHING.

[Screaming Lord Pea Green]

inb4 someone makes a blue milk reference.

[Caledonian]

inb4 someone makes a blue milk reference.

?

[Sir Henry]

inb4 someone makes a blue milk reference.

As used in Blue Ice Cream?

Sack Trick "Blue Ice Cream" No.150

WARNING: Jolly noisy from the very start - calms down a bit once the story starts

[Crescat Scientia]

inb4 someone makes a blue milk reference.

?

That's an original "Star Wars" reference, isn't it?  What Luke drank on Tattooine on the moisture farm of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.

[Alexis Voltaire]

I'm intrigued to see what the people who design the cheaper sonic screwdriver toys will make of the sequential spinning light effect.

It should be an easy effect. I'm going to have a go at building my own version. I just have to wait for the bits to arrive through the post.

I think I can do it with 4 LED's, 4 Resisters, 2 Transistors and 2 Capacitors, and a 9v Battery.

Please post pics when you've got it done

As for whether Gallifreyans and Humans can interbreed, my epileptic tree is that the Gallifreyans are an offshoot of humanity. We know humans developed time travel at some point, and also that a lot of "alien" species are indistinguishable from humans, even when they're visiting a time before humanity began it's interstellar colonisation, so it appears to be that humans started colonies throughout time as well as space. One of which, settled near the beginning (time travel leads to interesting arms races), could have developed a civilisation that has near-complete mastery over time...

Can't remember where it's from but IIRC, if you go looking into the deep canon, it's actually the reverse.* Rassilon considered Gallifreyans to be the most perfect life form, and spread their DNA throughout the universe using the time vortex, resulting in the fact that most intelligent alien life eventually evolved to look Gallifreyan. Rassilon was among other things a master of genetic engineering and kind of an egomaniac.

*Depending on how much you consider things other than TV episodes (books, radio drama) to be canon.

If you're feeling brave and looking for info about Gallifrey and the Timelords, Rassilon Omega and that Other guy is most probably the biggest indexed database in existence.

...

I'm going to get beat up at recess aren't I?

[Caledonian]

I'm going to get beat up at recess aren't I?

naaah. you can sit with us!

[Caledonian]

107 Doctor Who Facts YOU Should Know! (Cinematica)

[Alexis Voltaire]

This is the silliest and most random thing I've seen all week.

[elShoggotho]

107 Doctor Who Facts YOU Should Know! (Cinematica)

Starts with Crap Smith, so it's 107 facts I don't need to know.

[Caledonian]

107 Doctor Who Facts YOU Should Know! (Cinematica)

Starts with Crap Smith, so it's 107 facts I don't need to know.

There is classic who facts in the list too. :/

[elShoggotho]

Got very strong opinions about the Smith era. Terribly sorry, won't happen again.

[Caledonian]

Got very strong opinions about the Smith era. Terribly sorry, won't happen again.

I basically skipped the smith era. I'm not one to have an opinion on that. *shrugs*

[19th Century Space Pilot]

I have perused the regeneration section of the website that was mentioned earlier. It seems that Timelords have a fairly stable base incarnation that doesn't vary much - which is why The Doctor has been, until recently, very much an Englishman - but traumatic regenerations can cause a significant alteration from this? Which explains why 12 is Scottish - a combination of the impact Amy had on 11, and the fact that he was beginning a new cycle from a very decrepit state.

I wonder what happened to The Master, then?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, what happened to The General on her previous regeneration, to cause her to regenerate into an old white guy? Will we ever find out?

Regarding The Doctor's personal history, I suspect he was loomed, incorporating human DNA, as a small child. That seems to fit best with canon.

[Alexis Voltaire]

I have perused the regeneration section of the website that was mentioned earlier. It seems that Timelords have a fairly stable base incarnation that doesn't vary much - which is why The Doctor has been, until recently, very much an Englishman - but traumatic regenerations can cause a significant alteration from this? Which explains why 12 is Scottish - a combination of the impact Amy had on 11, and the fact that he was beginning a new cycle from a very decrepit state.

Might explain why the Doctor's personalities are so different from one incarnation to the other, where it doesn't seem to be as extreme in other Timelords. (from what little we've seen of them.)

That, or Timelords actually can control what personalities they have and what they end up looking like during regeneration, (Romana did this pretty obviously once) but the Doctor either missed class that day or can't for some reason.

I wonder what happened to The Master, then?

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Could have been a lot of things. Simm's Master went legitimately mad during his regeneration from the old man trapped at the end of the universe. He then got trapped on wartime Gallifrey (not really a nice place) the last time we saw him, with a body that was deeply unstable. Maybe regenerating into a female body was partly a disguise to escape?

The Master is also on at least his second regeneration cycle; he'd used up all his first set of regenerations sometime before the middle of Tom Baker's era. Out of those 13 to 20-something incarnations we've only actually seen 8(?) of them. And at least one wasn't even physically a Timelord but another humanoid species the Master swapped minds with.

The Master may well have been female before and we've just never seen it. The idea that Timelords can change gender is new, but it's being presented as something that they don't considered unusual, so much so that it's just never come up until now.

[Siliconous Skumins]

Sticking with accepted original and reboot TV show and novel canon, there are a few fairly established facts about Timelords.

First off, There are two main categories of inhabitants of Galifrey - "Timelords" and "Galifreyans", though the two terms are used somewhat interchangeably by Timelords. Gallifreyan is the species while Time Lord is an earned title, though technically a Timelord is greatly enhanced on a genetic level as compared to ordinary Gallifreyans, and thus may be considered as either a separate or sub-species.

Exposure to the time vortex and genetic manipulation by Rassilon during the early period of the Timelords history, is what makes a Timelord actually a "Timelord". Timelords have a vastly increased awareness of the space and time surrounding them, they see the universe in a different way to our own perception of linear time - for a Timelord, time is anything but linear. Time is perceived by timelords like we might perceive a sound, images or smells, it's like an extra sense, and a highly acute one at that. Timelords are somehow innately able to sense which events in time are 'fixed' and which are in 'flux'.
To a Timelord who is not concentrating, a typical human could appear to be both a young baby and elderly person simultaneously. The Doctor exhibited this phenomenon with Clara after his regeneration, he perceived her from further into her possible timeline, and was unable to differentiate her young self from her future older version. The Doctor has previously stated (TV reboot) that he is able to "feel" the rotation of the planet, the orbit around the sun and the orbit of the solar system around the galactic centre, as well as being able to perceive the past and all possible futures.
Time Lords can communicate by telepathy, and can link their minds to share information and enhance their powers. The Doctor has engaged in astral projection, but warned that if he is disturbed while doing so, his mind could become severed from his body and he could die. Additionally, both the Doctor and the Master demonstrate significant hypnotic abilities which may be supplemented by their telepathic abilities.


On Gallifrey there are two main groups that inhabit the world outside of the capital city, referred to as the Citadel, which contains the Capitol, the seat of Time Lord government. They are known as "Outsiders" by those inside the Citadel, and are true Galifreyans and ex-Timelords who have rejected and shun Timelord society and chose to live a primitive lifestyle, they wear animal skins and use weapons like bows, arrows and spears to hunt for food. Of these there is a sub-group known as the Shobogans. Within the Capitol, Shobogans committed petty acts of vandalism. They view the Timelord culture as being corrupt and stagnant.



Timelords are actually capable of choosing their own regeneration form, though there is some skill involved with that. It is taught during their training, and some master it with ease, while others find it difficult or prefer the random nature of it. It has been said (TV original / reboot) that the Doctor skipped that part of his training, or was not paying attention. Timelords can be male or female at their own choosing, or by random, during the regeneration. Some swap often, other have a preference for one gender.

The Master / Missy is currently on her FOURTH set of regenerations. The master was allready at the end of his original set during the Tom Baker era, and was able to side step the issue by stealing and inhabiting the body of others. The Master was offered a new cycle of regenerations by the High Council to save the Doctor from the Death Zone, and during the Time War, the Master was "resurrected" and granted a new set of regenerations in return for fighting in the war, though at some point near his last few regenerations he fled from the war and wiped his own memory of being a Timelord. After his final regeneration died, he had allready set plans to attempt at creating himself a new regeneration cycle but this was a failure, and thus his body was in it's final death throws, burning up what was left of his life energy at an increased rate, when he was transported back to Gallifrey by stopping the Timelords plans as his final revenge for the "drums" implanted in his mind, that had driven him so insane.

It is not yet explained how the master gained a new regeneration cycle, though it can be sure it was probably by deceit.

Regenerations can be traumatic events. In Castrovalva, the Fifth Doctor requires the use of a Zero Room, a chamber shielded from the outside universe that provides an area of calm for him to recuperate. He comments that there is an excellent polygonal zero room beneath the junior senate block on Gallifrey. The Time Lord's personality also sometimes goes through a period of instability following a regeneration.Time Lords also use the Elixir of Life in extreme cases, where regeneration is not possible.


Timelords are no longer able to reproduce via normal biological means. Ancient Gallifrey was ruled by the Pythia, who controlled the population through prophecies and superstition. Rassilon, whose followers believed in science and rationality, led a revolution against the Pythia, eventually causing her to kill herself, and send her followers to the planet Karn. However, before she died she cursed Rassilon and all future Time Lords to sterility. It is also said to be partly due to the exposure to the time vortex, but also the vast and accelerated genetic differences caused by the regeneration cycles. To ensure the continuation of their race, Rassilon created the Looms, machines that would "weave" new Gallifreyans out of extant genetic material. As such, Timelords are 'bred' in the genetic looms.  

Time Lord society is co-founded with Rassilon, Omega and the "Other" following their overthrow of the cult of Pythia, which had previously dominated Gallifrey. Various contradictory legends surround the Other, some hinting that he had powers surpassing that of Rassilon or Omega, and some even suggesting that he was not born on the Time Lords' home world of Gallifrey. His name is lost to time, which is why he is simply referred to as "the Other". The Other cautions the others not to use time travel to "impose order", and later witnesses Omega's apparent death as he conducts experiments on a star. Omega apparently died creating the black hole which provided the raw power needed for time travel, turning the Gallifreyans into Lords of Time. (Some accounts suggest that Rassilon misled Omega into believing he would survive this mission.) Rassilon and the Other were left to pick up the pieces, with Rassilon harnessing the nucleus of the black hole to create the Eye of Harmony and becoming virtual dictator of Time Lord civilisation.

Rassilon becomes increasingly tyrannical and violently crushes resistance to his reforms. As Rassilon's rule became more oppressive, the Other knew that his own days were numbered. The Other first ensured that his granddaughter Susan (the last child to be naturally born on Gallifrey) was safe, sending her to the spaceport to get off the planet. Then, in a last gesture of defiance against Rassilon's rule, he committed suicide by throwing himself into the Looms, mixing his genetic material into the banks.

Eons passed, and the Looms became integrated into the great Houses of Gallifrey. Eventually, a new Cousin was born to the House of Lungbarrow, who would become known as the Doctor. Disenchanted with Time Lord society, the Doctor stole a TARDIS, intending to explore the universe. However, inside the TARDIS he discovered that the Hand of Omega, the stellar manipulator Omega had used to create the Eye of Harmony, had followed him on board, somehow recognising inside him one of its creators. Although time travel into Gallifrey's past was strictly forbidden, the Hand overrode the locks that prevented the TARDIS from doing so and took the Doctor back to the Old Time.

There, a year after the Other had vanished into the Looms, the Doctor found Susan wandering the streets of the city — she had never made it to the spaceport. Like the Hand, although the Doctor did not look anything like the Other, Susan recognised that there was a connection, and when she addressed him as "Grandfather", both of them knew that it was somehow right. The implication was that the Other had been genetically reincarnated as the Doctor, although how much of the Other is in the Doctor and how much he remembers of his past life, if at all, is unclear.

[Alexis Voltaire]

^Some really interesting info there.

I'd no idea the Master was on his fourth regeneration cycle, (I thought he was offered, but never actually got one in The Five Doctors, and that the current one was the one he was resurrected with during the timewar)

Have you read Engines of War Siliconous? It's a really excellent (really dark) book set during the War Doctor's years in the Timewar. It gives a pretty good overview of the logistics of the Timewar, something I'd always been curious about since it's never explained in the show.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

One might make a case based on the info in Engines of War that the rainbow/skittle Daleks from Smith's era are probably one of the Skaro Degradations; horrible mutations perpetuated by the Timelords in attempt to remove the Daleks from time before they grew to be a threat (And later on by the Daleks themselves to see if they could randomly create better killers)

[Michael Farley]

A cosplayer has posted the official BBC knitting instructions for Tom Baker's scarf.



It just made me chuckle that the BBC must have received so many letters about it back in the day that they had to print a form letter to send out to viewers.

[Rockula]

Doctor Who meets Buzz Lightyear; The Dark Side.

[Sludge Van Diesel]

I had a play with a Timelord name generator on FB earlier.

Henceforth I shall be known as "The Physician" & apparently I'm a renegade Timelord.

"Your original Gallifreyan name is Strysillspanadraloom, or Strysill for short. Back on Gallifrey, you led a dull and uninteresting life, working as a Tachyonic Researcher (Lower Class) – but now, you travel Time and Space in search of adventure! Your Type 39 TARDIS is currently stuck in disguise as an automated supermarket checkout machine, and your latest travelling companion is a 1950s daredevil test pilot, who has never seen a dangerous situation she couldn't cope with."

Better get that chameleon circuit fixed though.