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Author Topic: Windows 8  (Read 12887 times)
michikade
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« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2012, 07:07:02 am »

Finally bit the bullet on my dual boot.  Took some finagling to get all of my programs running correctly through Ubuntu 12 (had to opt for 12.04 LTS rather than 12.10), and 12.x really isn't a fan of installing multiarch programs... but I finally got it running.  Whew!

Anyway, back on topic: Upon doing some additional research (read: watching Youtube reviews), I'm still thinking 8 isn't going to quite do it for me outside of a dual-boot situation.  Sure, it looks pretty, but IMO it would throw my productivity out the window when I'm trying to work - it isn't intuitive in regards to what I need a PC to do.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2012, 07:13:06 am by michikade » Logged
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« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 08:08:20 am »

Anybody else feel that Windows alternates between good and bad editions? Like Windows 3.1 was good, Windows 95 was ok, '98 (SE2) was good, Millenium Edition was bleargh, XP was good, Vista was bleargh, Windows 7 was good...,

Now I've used all except Vista and Windows 8, so I can't comment on those. Also, I'm speaking as a casual, recreational computer user who currently does most of his computing on an Apple Mac Mini, so I'm sure there are people here on the forum who are far more qualified to talk about it so I'm going to throw it out to you all to comment.

Gareth.

Gareth, you beat me to it.

I'm old enough to remember "Windows" I mean the original one, and I've had at least some contact with every version since. Here's my take on the situation.

Windows - Worked ok
Windows 2  Didn't work quite so well.
Windows 3.1  Worked great
Windows 95  Was nuttier than squirrel poop, and crashed more often than a drunk at a demo derby.
Windows 98 Worked ok after a service pack or two
Windows ME  Worked, but made you wish it hadn't.  (my mom is still keeping records on a machine running it...  ,shudder.)
Windows XP  worked pretty good, after a service pack or two. I'm still running it on a couple of machines.
Windows Vista   Slower than Christmas in Narnia. I have a laptop that still runs it, because I've been unable to find xp drivers for the proprietaty bits of the laptop.  It should have a 30 second boot time with xp. It has nearly a 4 minute boot time with vista.
Windows 7   Works surprisingly well.  
Windows 8...  What do you think?



 A buddy of mine just built a machine that would make Alienware look slow. It's for his video editing business. It runs multiple ssd drives, liquid cooled and more ram than you can shake a stick at.  He has to keep his office door open even with the AC on high as it heats the whole 12x12 room, when he's really putting it through his paces.  He loved Windows 8,  for almost a week. That is how long it ran before Windows decided his video card needed some sort of driver. He let it search and whatever it tried to install had some sort of unrecoverable error. When windows tried to fix the problem automatically, it wiped out everything he didn't have backed up, which was about 3 days worth of work.  Much of his video editing software was effected as well.  He had to finally wipe everything out and reinstall everything from scratch.  
« Last Edit: November 15, 2012, 03:24:45 am by Herkimer » Logged
bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2012, 08:20:57 am »

Looking at this summery, I think the big difference bitween "vintage" Windows and the newer ones, is that we are more demanding. Back than we used computers for actual computing. Spreadsheets, calculations and some low quality games. And we loved it!
Now we (at least I) want the computer or laptop to start up instantly. No boot time. You don't have to wait until the light turns on when you flip the switch, so I don't have to wait for a superfast computer to start up. Also, we want our computer to play music, download 6 blueray disks and show one at the same time. At the same time, we want it to render our own 3d movie. (exaggerated, but you get the idea.)
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« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2012, 01:47:26 pm »


W8 seems to be stuffed with things I'll never use

Internet Explorer? - no thanks

Store? - I've just paid for W8 you want me to buy more stuff? No thanks.

Weather? - Is this a 'net app? No need for this on the front screen at all. No thanks

Xbox Live games? - Don't have an Xbox. No thanks

Xbox Companion? - No idea on this one

People? - A cloud powered address book according to Google. No thanks

Skydrive? - More cloud based pointlessness. No thanks

Finance? - A realtime financial powered by Bing. No thanks.

Remote desktop? - Can't think of a situation where I'd ever need to use this. No thanks.

Music? - Finally something possibly useful. But also links into music marketplace. Hopefully this can be turned off. And I hope that Windows Media Player doesn't hog all the mory on the machine just to play a single Mp3. Possibly.

And the icon layout is the least easy way to find anything.

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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 01:55:51 pm »

If I was Microsoft, I would skip W8 and go straight to W9. Who wants a system that's called "wait"?  Undecided

Ah, what's in a name.
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Maets
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« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2012, 02:27:36 pm »

And what is Windows RT???

Lots of TV ads for Microsoft Surface - tablet/netbook that runs Windows RT

Just a smaller version?  Will it run old windows programs?


Thanks for all the information so far on Windows 8.
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« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2012, 02:34:25 pm »


W8 RT is for low powered netbook/tablet devices

BUT

Quote
Unlike other Windows operating systems, it will only be able to run software that has been certified by Microsoft and placed in the Windows Store. Windows RT will include additional applications such as Microsoft Office Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote 2013 RT. Unlike all other variations of Windows 8, Windows RT can only be obtained by users as pre-loaded software on devices designed by participating OEMs, making it comparable to other mobile operating systems, with the exception of Android.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_RT
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von Corax
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« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2012, 03:21:05 am »

I rather think the Windows 8 slogan "I wanna be everything at once" is a pretty clear indication of the problem… Wink
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« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2012, 03:31:48 am »

I'm all for windows 8, let all my friends download and use it. They'll hate it after a month, giving me the chance to convince them to switch to linux.
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« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2012, 04:25:21 am »

Store? - I've just paid for W8 you want me to buy more stuff? No thanks.

The store, like the Android app store, is full of nice free apps. I've got a few staple ones I use already, including one that collates all my marketing data (web page views, twitter and facebook page stats etc) a colour picker (I design web pages by hand so it's much easier than opening up photoshop/paint just to find the colour I want) and a QR code generator (I work in marketing and people love 2D barcodes)

Most of the demo stuff online is targeting Joe User, but someone with a bit of experience under their belt can whip win8 into a sleek, well-customised beast. I have my tiles arranged based on their use, everything I use for my business is in a block of two columns, recreational stuff in another, information in another, and then experimental stuff in another off to the far right. It's actually much better for organising programs than the old start menu, which I only actually used as a searchbox after Vista. This find-as-you-type functionality remains on windows 8, allowing one to just type the first few characters of the program they're after and the shortcut pops up just like that.

I don't use any of the large 2-space tiles, because of OCD.

Uninstalling apps from the start menu is easy, just right click and hit uninstall. The built in messenger functions on both MSN and facebook messenger, the email app has unlimited accounts so you don't need thunderbird or outlook, the Skype app is far nicer than the desktop app, and if you don't like all that it still functions exactly the same as a desktop. You can run google chrome fullscreen as an app if you wish, I'm used to using it on the desktop so I don't use this option, but it does exist, and thanks to fair use laws you don't HAVE to use internet explorer for anything.

I installed windows 8 over the top of my existing win7 install, and it's retained all the programs I used, the only noticeable difference apart from a change in the window style is the fact that when you log in it takes you straight to the start screen rather than to the desktop. This doesn't stop programs and services starting up in the background, so again, nothing to worry about. It's not that big a step up from windows 7, but people, as always, are scared of what they don't know.

Sure, it looks a little different, but it's faster than windows 7 and I've had no issues with drivers and whatnot, it's remained stable in the 5 months I've been using it. This might be the version that breaks the alternating windows cycle.

I'm actually tempted to upload a video of me using windows 8 because people keep asking me about it, how I can use it and whatnot. Sure, I'm a fairly adaptable person but I have things how I like them, and windows 8 lets me carry on with my obsessive organisation of my stuff without major issue.
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Maets
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« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2012, 02:49:38 pm »

I appreciate all of the info.  A video would be great.  Thanks.
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« Reply #36 on: November 16, 2012, 08:14:38 pm »

Ok, I've just tried to make a video using my regular screen recorder but for some reason it's only captured a 9 minute still of the start menu. I'll have to find another screen recorder for use with Windows 8 it seems.

Still, I'll get on it as soon as I find a suitable replacement.
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Madasasteamfish
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« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2012, 11:11:28 pm »

Having had a bit more of a hands on (through my computer at work running it), I feel a bit more able to comment. And tbh other than the start menu, and the extra file directory system it's not that different from windows 7. However, where it is different from 7 it's drastically different and nowhere near as intuitive, or as easy to use as other windows systems, however I can see it being easy to use on a touch screen and being good for a phone or tablet where you've got limited RAM.

My recommendation, unless you're a flash bugger who insists on having the 'latest thing' avoid it like the plague on any 'proper computer' (i.e. laptop/desktop) and stick with xp or 7 (I know I when I finally get round to upgrading my desktop I'll be making sure it runs on 7).
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2012, 03:04:40 am »

Honest review by a drunk -actually computer literate, but drunk - user. The brutality in her honesty is what all of us really want to say to Microsoft but are too embarrassed to say in front of other users for fear of appearing to be "dumb."
Actually I now believe every one should have at least 8 shots of tequila before reviewing a product - it brings out the truth!

Hmmmm truth serum?

Actual User Quotes:
"why can't I just write the fu***ng email?"
"stuck in the start menu!"
"back to the start menu"
"my gawd that was a fu***ng treasure hunt!"
"I'm being punished"
"Who wants to browse the internet with IE, that's like suck my a**!"
" I feel like I'm trapped"

thanks very much Msr Wilhelm, I am now sufficiently enlightened

yhs
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neon_suntan
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« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2012, 11:21:06 pm »


Also in the "is it just me?" category what the hell has happened to MS Office these days?
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DreamHazard
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2012, 11:40:43 pm »

What MS Office?

I use Google Docs, it's free, and it automatically saves your documents to your google account, and it's fully compatible with DOCX, ODT and MS Office, meaning you can upload and download your documents in those formats, and email them directly from your account, and open email attachments directly in the browser. Also it means you don't have to have it installed on your computer, so it doesn't eat RAM or hard drive space. OOo takes up far more space and has problems with memory leaks, and MS Office is far bigger than it needs to be.
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Maeg
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« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2012, 12:06:54 am »

*Reads through this thread*

My main (and only) machine is called "Doris", a grumpy old desktop running XP/256 Mb RAM/IE6*. Nice though Windows 8 sounds, I am someone who is perfectly happy with their machine and who only gets "light" use out of it (Internet/music/word processing). It seems to me to be selling an awful lot of stuff I didn't know I needed, and with features I won't miss because I never had them.

Am I alone in this?

M.

P.S.: As an aside, I note that my "baseline" for XP when idle (i.e. on the desktop with no programs running) is 140 MB RAM. The better halfs Windows 7 laptop idles at 1.3 GB. Does Windows 8 have similar requirements in terms of memory usage?



*Yes, I know the whole world and their twittering dog are trying to kill off IE6 and I also have firefox. But Firefox hogs the whole machine and makes it painfully slow to do anything else, atleast since its latest update. Is there any way of going back?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2012, 12:16:55 am by Maeg » Logged
Kieranfoy
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« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2012, 02:12:47 am »

What MS Office?

I use Google Docs

Dunno about you, but for me, Google docs is painfully slow to use. Might be my internet connection.
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Prof Marvel
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« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2012, 03:29:51 am »

What MS Office?

I use Google Docs

Dunno about you, but for me, Google docs is painfully slow to use. Might be my internet connection.

I normally stay out of windoze "power" discussions but feel I must throw in this bit lest it be lost or ignored....  Wink

- Google's (and pretty much all such online vendors) security is abysmal. evaluate your own risk accordingly.  Embarrassed
- you *will* experience outages and data losses, some long, some short, and you will have no recourse except futile  bit***ng .   Embarrassed

Is your info important or you have a time critical project?  Too bad, they don't care.  Lips sealed

Google is, in fact evil. perform your own due diligence; on this topic the examples are legion and I don't have time to spoon feed.  Cry

BTW in case you have not noticed,  the global infowar is not only here, it has been going on for some time. It *will* get worse, and make the former Cold War look like a neighborhood tiff.   Shocked Shocked

For years I have been advising my clients that "no one cares about or values your business, your data, and your security like you do".
Act accordingly. Again, disaster examples are legion.  Shocked

If you are blissfully unaware of (or don't care about) the numerous issues and the interesting agendas of the different corporations (not to mention various agencies and foreign powers) and wish to remain so, then more power to you.    Cheesy

Re Windoze, I am a "forced user". I myself am a vehement opponent of bloatware, and generally am a proponent of various *nix  and *nix associated open sourceware. Sadly to participate in certain aetherweb sandboxes (such as this excellent one) I use a thouroughly (and frequently) sanitized laptop running a deliberately surgically crippled version of the commercial cr*p.   Embarrassed

Why, do you ask, am I blithering on like this? Basically so that, at a future time, I can point back to my feeble attempts at warnings and honestly be able to state:   "Told you so; saw it right off."     Tongue

As Always, YMMV
Thanks for coming, drive safe!

yhs
prof (grumpy) marvel
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 04:44:00 am by Prof Marvel » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2012, 01:52:08 pm »


Point by point criticism

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/windows-8.html

However the writer thinks Microsofts ribbon UI is really great so his opinion is deeply suspect.
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« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2012, 02:02:07 pm »

That review doesn't make me want to run out and get it.
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« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2012, 04:04:12 pm »


I really don't like the look of W8 but the new editions of Office are incomprehensible, but part of me wonders if I should learn them anyway seeing as the version of Word/Excel I use at work all day will soon be a decade old.
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« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2013, 04:58:16 am »

As the title reads, it looks like Win 8 is failing to attract customers and one financial analyst has tied a sharp decline (below the normal decay trend expected) in PC sales to Windows 8:

http://news.yahoo.com/research-firm-pc-sales-plunge-windows-8-flops-200210332--finance.html

Is Win 8 far too much of a tablet operating system to be stomached by the PC loyal followers?  At what point do you alienate your legacy customer base?  With MS Surface on the floor in terms of sales, has this gamble exploded in MS's face?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 05:05:34 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

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« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2013, 10:41:16 am »

BACK ONCE AGAIN! For the haters, there's a couple of nifty hacks that can restore windows 8 to a more traditional interface. One is the direct port of windows 7's shell. Some clever bugger has come along and made a little hack that allows windows 7's interface to entirely replace windows 8's new features. No fullscreen apps (that's a negative, but I'll get to that in a minute) an actual start button rather than a hot corner (I quite like the hot corner, if I'm honest. I'm all about screen real estate), but all the benefits of windows 8. And there are some MASSIVE benefits.

As I might have mentioned before, the underlying system goes like a greased turd off a shiny shovel. IT IS FAST. The leap from Vista to 7 brought speed with it, the leap from 7 to 8 brings more speed again. This may be another contributing factor in the downturn in PC sales. The minimum spec hasn't really changed. Any computer that can run Vista can run 8, as can any computer that can run 7. Fact is, you don't NEED a new computer to use windows 8, it actually makes those Vista-preloaded boxes fly like they'd never dreamed.

Onto the other hack for not-using-the-fullscreen-start, and the one I use because there's a couple of 8 apps I actually love. Classic Shell. This replaces (fully or in part, I'll get to that) the hot corner with a taskbar-mounted start button, like the good old days. Clicking on this button brings up not a fullscreen panel but a more traditional start interface, a little panel that sits in the corner like a good little menu and delivers your start screen content like the good old days. It can run the fullscreen apps, so there's actually no need to see the new start menu at all. As an additional thing though, I have a few live tiles and programs pinned to my fullscreen start that I like the features on, like a calendar and weather live tile, some of the new UI apps I like (Adobe Kuler Touch and Netflix, most notably... The netflix app is BEAUTIFUL) and a couple of shortcuts that may have otherwise resided on the desktop. I've set up Classic Shell to open the new start menu with a middle mouse click, so I can choose between old- and new-styled menus simply by deciding which button to click with. It's a massive boon to productivity because I don't need to leave the desktop to launch a program that runs on the desktop (intuitive, no?), but I can leave the desktop if I want a quick look at the date or a forecast for the day, or check on my site's traffic. Also I can have two skype accounts running side by side by using both the desktop and new ui versions, which is nice because I have different people added to both accounts.

Anyway, just an update on how win8's going for me. It's going well. Productivity is up, wait times are down, haters will be haters because they can't embrace change. Adapt and survive, share and enjoy!
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« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2013, 01:25:14 pm »

Well surely the fact that people have made a hack to replace the hot corner and the entirity of the new shell of W8 with a more traditional one shows that MS have gone wrong with it, and that users don't like the changes that W8 has introduced. I mean it's all well and good saying 'they just don't like change' but the fact that someone has felt the need to go through the effort of making a hack jsut to alter the interface and distribute it, shows that they've found some inherent problem with it.

I mean if I got a new computer with 8 installed but preferred the interface of windows 7, I'd see about wiping the hard drive and reinstalling 7 (which is surely an easier option) rather than hacking Windows 8 to make it look and run like 7.
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