Sophie Lancaster

[The_Haberdash]

Five years ago a young girl was beaten to death whilst protecting her boyfriend.

It was motivated purely because she looked different - she and her boyfriend were goths.

This is a fairly big thing in the Alternative community in England, but many are still unaware.
I'm closing my on-line shop tomorrow in solidarity. Earlier in the year we donated stock to a raffle/event in support of the charity.
I don't ask any one reading this to do anything other than to perhaps help spread awareness to help promote tolerance...Heck I'm sounding preachy here. What I'm getting at is tomorrow, I'm gonna go out and enjoy being who I am - and I hope can too.

All my best to you all

The commemorative video:

darkangel_sophie_lancaster_foundation.mov

Further reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sophie_Lancaster#The_attack

[Drew P]

Couldn't make it thru the video-had to stop when the attack started.

Horrible.So sad.

Briefly read thru the Wiki page-too much sadness to take.

Pains to know that some of the attackers have been out already.

Hearing abouts events like this makes me wonder what could've happened to me and my friends when I was younger(friends were Punkers,gay,not the 'norm',me like-wise(colored hair,wierd clothes and very tame at that!)). Sure we got crap,luckily it didn't go any farther.

Sympathy and strength go out to her family and those whom have suffered in like situations.

[The_Haberdash]

I'll be honest, that video is one of the few things that still makes me get a little choked up.

A lot of people still don't understand the issue, preferring to attribute it to a random attack - that whether Sophie and her boyfriend were alternative the group would've targeted some one regardless.
Well you've read the Wiki, you've read about the bragging about the incident... The message remains the same; Something's not right in some people and we have to pull together as a society before we pull ourselves apart.

Thanks for taking the time : )

[SeVeNeVeS]

I remember reading about this attack and my heart went out to the victims and the families.

Im afraid in this wonderful country we live, in alot of major cities, its a fact of life that if you look alternative, you will at some time be confronted by a gang of pissed up, uneducated, bigoted chav idiots that basically want to kick the living shit out of your very soul...... They see us as an easy victim.

I have lived in and been an active member of the alternative scene in my home town on the south coast for 30 years, and believe me, if you look slightly different, you literately take your life in your hands if walking on the streets at night.

I have been involved in, heard of and witnessed so many violent attacks on goths, bikers, metalers, punks etc over the years I have lost count.

The only advise I can give is be vigilant and wary, travel everywhere by taxi, if you cant get a lift. If you have to walk, groups are better than ones and twos, common sense really.

Stay safe and take care people. It can be a nasty world out there, I know from experience.

~SeVeN~ 

[The_Haberdash]

I second that

[Siliconous Skumins]

I was on the receiving end of an unprovoked attack by drunken chavs about 12 years ago (called a charver up here in the north east). Left me with a number of stitches in my top lip and the resultant scars, and a deviated septum (i.e crushed) - so I can't breath properly through my nose anymore. The small bone at the base of the septum (the bit between both nostrils) just above the mouth was smashed, and is easily broken even now (I usually just reset it by snapping it back in place, and yes it DOES hurt.  A lot...). 

I wasn't even dressed in alternative clothing, nothing out of the ordinary. I just wasn't dressed in Kappa sports gear etc, therefore I *was* wearing "alternative" clothing to them...    Probably the fact I was with an ex girlfriend who was a bit of a charv herself (I KNOW...), didn't help matters - they shouted "Heer - What ya dooin wiv that fat queer for?  I'll give ya apropper fuck!". At which point one of the group smashed me in the face with a 2 litre bottle of Lambrini "wine" (classy...) and started kicking me when I landed on the ground. Luckily I got away before a full on attack happened. Only just though...

All we did was walk past them on a main street at night (about 7pm). I didn't even see the attacker approach, I'm blind in my right eye and that's the side he attacked from. I guess they were trying to prove themselves to be "hard" and "manly", which is the usual reason for violence from that lot - you can often hear them boasting about beating someone sensless for whatever reason.


Scum like that don't need a REASON to attack, but giving them one just makes an attack more likely.

SS

[W. S. Marble]

I never heard of this tragedy before today; and I would wager that many people in the USA have not heard of it before.  It is absolutely heartbreaking.  I hope the families of the victims find themselves immersed in love and support from the majority...the good folks.

[MechanicalMouse]

Events like this need to be remembered, thank you for helping me remember.

[chicar]

Its monstrous !!!!

How us humans, a sentient specie, could have develloped a behaviors who doesn't exist among animals: attacking unprovoken someone of his own specie.

In the animal world, this deviants would have been killed at the first sign of agressivity. Mother Nature doesn't tolerate unloyalty for one own specie because unloyals person are the true inferiors, just good to be spit upon.


Gosh, it sound as if i proffess death penalty for this kind of agression, but its true, motive-less hate doesn't exist in the animal world.

[Atterton]

You need to watch more nature shows.

[chicar]

You need to watch more nature shows.

For your concern, i do watch a lot of them.

I don't said than war doesn't exist in the animal kingdom, i said than gratuitous hate is proper to man.

Animals fight with each other sometimes, but never without motive and never kill if they don't have to.

[The_Haberdash]

If I may step in..?

I understand where Chicar is coming from, but perhaps the phrasing can be misconstrued?
I for one consider the mark of humanity to be our ability to recognise individuals and respect them - the care and concern we are capable of giving that brings us to society as an evolved construct (looking after the ill, care for the elderly and so forth).
When we attack our community members we make a decision on some level to not only disregard what we have become together, but also to act on a reason that is a terrible attitude in a being that can be so much more. I.e. "You're different."
Not "You pose a threat", "You challenge me and what I understand" or even "You represent something trying to take away from what I have" but instead simply "You're different."

As Atterton has so rightly quoted in his profile, "Only the Shadow knows...the evil that lurks in the heart of man". In our ability to be so much more we have - perhaps - developed the ability to be so much more vicious as any violent act we do is an admission of baser instincts but also an ultimately concious act of viciousness, when we could as easily not and no difference to us or our world is made (other than, it being a more pleasent place day to day in letting it be).

I hope I've understood the discourse here?

[chironex]

You need to watch more nature shows.

For your concern, i do watch a lot of them.

I don't said than war doesn't exist in the animal kingdom, i said than gratuitous hate is proper to man.

Animals fight with each other sometimes, but never without motive and never kill if they don't have to.

You haven't seen the programmes I have.

[chicar]

If I may step in..?

I understand where Chicar is coming from, but perhaps the phrasing can be misconstrued?
I for one consider the mark of humanity to be our ability to recognise individuals and respect them - the care and concern we are capable of giving that brings us to society as an evolved construct (looking after the ill, care for the elderly and so forth).
When we attack our community members we make a decision on some level to not only disregard what we have become together, but also to act on a reason that is a terrible attitude in a being that can be so much more. I.e. "You're different."
Not "You pose a threat", "You challenge me and what I understand" or even "You represent something trying to take away from what I have" but instead simply "You're different."
I
As Atterton has so rightly quoted in his profile, "Only the Shadow knows...the evil that lurks in the heart of man". In our ability to be so much more we have - perhaps - developed the ability to be so much more vicious as any violent act we do is an admission of baser instincts but also an ultimately concious act of viciousness, when we could as easily not and no difference to us or our world is made (other than, it being a more pleasent place day to day in letting it be).

I hope I've understood the discourse here?

    That! That what i meant! Sorry bout that.Also,i fear my animistic beliefs have slighly affected the nuance of my discourse.

[Siliconous Skumins]

Moderator hat on:  This is an emotive topic, naturally, and can easily escalate from discussion to something more serious. Therefore if it begins to turn nasty - it will be locked.

So let's all play nicely together!  
Moderator hat off:


Acts of extreme violence are common in nature, the difference is that humans are the only ones to seek violence to impress their friends, and for no other reason...

SS

[The_Haberdash]

 This is an emotive topic, naturally, and can easily escalate

Hear, hear

[Atterton]

Albino animals will often be killed by their own flock. Similarly tagging an animal with a radio tracking device can also be enough to get them killed by their own flock.

[The_Haberdash]

Couldn't comment on the electronic tagging, any theories I could put forth would be beyond speculation and probably boardering sheer flights of fancy.

I'd expect , though welcome correction, that albinos are sought out because they represent a flawed mutation in their genetic make up; In group terms they risk a normally camouflaged pack being more easily spotted and therefore pose a risk and as such cannot be allowed to continue, as they promote higher chance of discovery.
If allowed to breed ultimately may pass on a genetic defect causing greater chance of it happening again.

As I say that's just a thought though.

[Jedediah Solomon]

How true and sad that some resort to violence in a world where we have so much to share. 

Its monstrous !!!!

How us humans, a sentient specie, could have develloped a behaviors who doesn't exist among animals: attacking unprovoken someone of his own specie.

In the animal world, this deviants would have been killed at the first sign of agressivity. Mother Nature doesn't tolerate unloyalty for one own specie because unloyals person are the true inferiors, just good to be spit upon.


Gosh, it sound as if i proffess death penalty for this kind of agression, but its true, motive-less hate doesn't exist in the animal world.

Although I understand your point of view, I disagree with the claim that the animal kingdom is more.....humane than human-kind. I work as a mechanic on a pig-farm and, although I do not go into the barns unless something needs to be fixed, I must tell you that every day, out of 5 or 6 thousand pigs, males all castrated, so can't use the alpha male excuse, at LEAST one or two pigs a day seem to be hauled out, either pulverized by other pigs because they breathe wrong or are ill and the others don't like the sounds they make and there goes my employer's money, not even good to eat after months of feeding. But the real issue is seen from two sides, let's call them side "A" and side "B"   Side  "A" is the religious or spiritual or whatever you want to call it. If we are endowed by our creator with a spirit that makes us "Above" the animals, What went wrong?  or if we look from the point of view {Call it side "B"} of the Evolutionists, we as a race have climbed out of the jungles Billions of years ago and fought our way to the top of the food chain and thus no longer have the need to beat each other with stones and clubs to win a hunting ground, so why are some still doing so?  I think the answer is touched upon by the comment that the Chav group seems to always be drugged up or intoxicated. If there are any commonalities here, it usually centres around the fact that the perpetrators are intoxicated, thus a 'toxin'{AKA poison} has been introduced into an  already unbalanced situation. Without the Toxin, the large group would be content to reason among themselves, "We are all the same... this one , or two are different. Therefore, we are right and I feel good about myself because I am a clone of the whole"  Alcohol therefore creates losers.

[The_Haberdash]

I'm very sad to say that though intoxication often fuels the chav movement to more violent affairs I can speak from experience - including recent - that it is not a required ingredient in the equation.

Incidentally, back on original topic (though not to speak against evolving a topic to broarder discussion!), I was happy to see that during Preston's Guild celebrations (once every 20 years) there was a parade/march in honour of Sophie and the cause.

We'd've probably had been involved but as a business (from the Guild's PoV, I speak here as a friend and individual) it was complicated (NOT in regards to us proudly standing in honour of Sophie, though).

[Argus Fairbrass]

For those that may be interested I'm going to put a link to the Sophie Lancaster Foundation.

http://www.sophielancasterfoundation.com/

Personally I'm ambivalent as to whether attacks on alternative looking people should be categorized in the same way as racial hate crimes. Not because I don't find them hateful, I'm just aware that this a violent society in which people suffer unprovoked attacks on a regular basis. In my opinion often for no other reason than the people committing them are *****. Sadly as more incidents of this nature occur, my thoughts on the re introduction of the death penalty harden, but I digress.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2170981/Attacked-goth-Thugs-left-girl-unable-smile-following-savage-attack-jailed.html

I know a young lady who was knocked unconscious by three women recently directly as a result of her appearance. And my own experiences would indicate you don't have to look alternative to get targeted, but it helps.

[The Kernel]

On today's BBC News website
- a radioplay that celebrated her life has been adapted for the stage.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19620897

[Phineas B. Catteri]

Homophobia, racism, hate crimes, cultural assault, all of it is so horribly disgusting. I would spit on any and all of these horrific people if I did not truly believe that that worthless saliva was worth more than their entire existence. Attacking someone purely because they look different, what year are we living in?!??! I am no stranger to abuse, but this is beyond despicable.

These are hate crimes, there is no two ways about it, and they should be treated as such.

A beautiful video for a horrible story. My sympathies to all those who fall victim to this hate, and my damnation to those who perpetuate such intolerance and violence.

[The_Haberdash]

Phineas - I can appreciate your sentiments.

The Kernal - I heard about that today, it sparked some debate on my Facebook; Largely "Uhm...hmm." No one seems either for or against the idea whilst we hold our breath with hope it's done tastefully and delicately. I suspect it will be done so, and further the message.

[Athanor]

Notice the pattern here. Almost invariably, these attacks are perpetrated by large groups of (usually) young human males - at least five, in the case of Sophie and her boyfriend - against much smaller groups or solitary individuals who are perceived as weaker than the attackers (you rarely hear about attacks being perpetrated against 250lb. bikers or Rugby players). Then they brag about it afterwards.

These lowlife slimes are despicable, pathetic COWARDS, all of them. Apparently kicking a defenceless girl to death, preferably with odds of at least five to one, makes them feel like big, tough heroes. Unbelievable.

Athanor.