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Author Topic: How to create a villain???  (Read 551 times)
Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz
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« on: June 30, 2012, 11:28:28 am »

     I'm trying to create a plot for a short story involving Kapitan Fritz and Paul von Lettow-Vorbeck. I have a basic idea for a villain character that I am trying to use, but I wanted some advice and feedback from people who are better writers than me. How do I create a convincing villain? I have a basic premise that I need some help trying to develop.

     His name is Colonel Flanders. He is a Belgian mercenary commander that worked in the Congo Free State during the time of Leopold II. He is now fleeing justice somewhere deep in the jungle, where it is eventually found that he has discovered King Solomon's Mines and has mind-controlled the descendants of the ancient Hebrews to think he is their Messiah (or something along those lines). I'm wondering what sort of background (although he is supposed to be somewhat mysterious) and personality he might have that would make him so sadistic. I'm also wondering how I could turn this premise into an actual story. I need help desperately with this (it is a much higher priority than my post-apocalyptic universe in the off-topic section).

     This story is supposed to take place during a steampunked WW1.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 11:30:25 am by Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz » Logged
MarcusJuliusCroft
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« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 12:00:18 pm »

Kapitan Fritz,  I do say this.
Colonel Flanders, may have been in the Belgian Army or similar.  More than likely he had a successful career before being dismissed due to some scandal, probably to do with a Jew.  Middle/High class, not rich but not without some money(The Mines) probably well travelled and cultured, extremely intelligent/dangerous.Do you have anything particular you want?
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Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz
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« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2012, 12:05:23 pm »

     The idea is that he disappeared and nobody knows that he's hiding out in the mines.
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Atterton
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« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2012, 01:53:17 pm »

Have you ever read Heart of Darkness by Conrad?
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« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2012, 02:13:22 pm »

I'd agree with Marcus Julius, he'd probably have some form of military background, possibly having risen up through the ranks to the officer class before leaving/being discharged due to some form of scandal/atrocity committed by him or his men. He then sets himself up as a mercenary in Africa and starts fighting a private war with some local tribespeople, or something similar, say he and his men are hired as bodyguards/escorts/security force by a mining company and takes his responsibilities much too far. After the colonial authorities get wind of what's happened they send someone after him, but the arrive too late, and hear he walked off into the jungle (taking some of his men with him) and are assumed to have met some form of sticky end after, their camp is found destroyed weeks later.

Fast forward  a few months/years and something happens which lands the heroes close to the mine and find Flanders running the show and motivated by the plight/treatment of the workers they decide to get rid of Flanders (capturing him to stand trial if possible)/ liberating the mine workers.

As for personality, I'd say he'd probably quite greedy and motivated almost purely by profit, say having lived on the edge of poverty as a child and joining the army as a means of escaping it, which also may provide you with the scandal which made him leave the army. My suggestion is something along the lines of he returns home from a posting overseas to find his family being thrown out of their home on the instructions of their Jewish landlord, whom Flanders assaults which sees him being discharged, or deserting his outfit to avoid trial.
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« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 02:14:32 pm »

Sugar, spice and a huge amount of curry powder
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Lady Chrystal
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 02:27:09 pm »

Who is he sadistic to? Is he anti-Semitic? Or is his anger focused on women, say? The answer to that question will load the dice for the sadistic side to his behaviour.

Then, how does it manifest? Is it purely that he's masquerading as their Messiah? Is he petty - setting impossible tasks...?

Baddies are best when they're complex, with some seriously likeable traits. It helps if we can empathise with him, say he was abused as a child and now takes it out on others. But it's better if he still has some form of decency, even if it's very twisted.

If you're not confident of writing him well, try writing the story from his PoV. This may not be your final version, but it'll help you get inside his head.
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« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2012, 03:54:10 pm »

Quote
Have you ever read Heart of Darkness by Conrad?


Yes. Very much yes. Read this book (shouldn't take too long). It has one of the most terrifying character's I've read in a long time.


Often times the scariest characters are the ones we don't understand. That element of the unknown makes everything uncertain. I agree with what has been said before about him being in the military (for the skills), but what if instead of being discharged he rose too fast, saw something classified that the government was working on and that either broke him or made him question everything. So he left, ran to the jungle, and no one has heard of him sense.
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EScoggin
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« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2012, 05:07:28 pm »

What about his childhood? When children are neglected a part of their brain doesn't develop, making them incapable to love at a normal standard. They see people as inanimate objects. Just a thought.
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« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 05:15:49 pm »

Have you ever read Heart of Darkness by Conrad?

Thirded.  One of my favourite books and the character of Kurtz has more than a few parallels to your character.  The way Conrad introduces him, through rumour and a reputation that far precedes the man, is a brilliant method of introducing a villain.  Rumour often distorts the truth so conflicting stories and exaggerated tales makes for a foreboding and compelling narrative as the reader wants to find out the truth.

And then like the other posters have said, when the man himself is revealed he must be human if you want him to be remembered.  Few people set out in life to be evil.  It is often the circumstances, politics or tragic human flaws that makes someone do evil things.  Unless you want a comic or trash-pulp villain then you don't want to write a man who is wicked, but rather a man who does wicked things for understandable reasons.  The greatest villains are tragic heroes too.
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« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 05:22:06 pm »

this may help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy
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Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz
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« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2012, 05:58:34 pm »

     I'm thinking he had some kind of mentor in the past who helped him become the complete monster he is today. He almost certainly has been conditioned to think that those he abuses are like automatons and not human beings. He almost certainly was abused as a child as well. Maybe the protagonists even unknowingly meet the mentor at some point (he's probably been emotionally destabilized from having to be so ruthless).

     Also, I like the idea that the role of Messiah has grown on him and he actually believes he is the Messiah now.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 06:02:41 pm by Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz » Logged
Lady Chrystal
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2012, 06:07:57 pm »

Have you seen (or better still, read) and of the Dexter stories? Very much along the same lines.

If he believes he is the Messiah, that is likely to be his justification - he's testing his followers / making them stronger / has no rules to obey.

The Greek and Roman pantheons were populated by sadisitic, petty gods (and goddesses) who thought they had rights over all mankind...
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kidkunjer
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2012, 06:26:53 pm »



now come on, please! i have so called ASPD and I'm so sick of villains that are like this! (that's why i wrote Victor Hart)

to me your character sounds like much more of a narcissist (in the medical sense)... the narcissist is far more likely to commit acts of violence and sadism than the antisocial... anyway, personal stuff aside...


Is your villain the sort of person you want your readers to really hate? or kind of like in a joker-from-batman type way?

If you want to inspire hatred then how about the grown spoilt brat?

The character could have come from a well-bred family of slave traders that had a constant flow of sycophantic servants to cater for his every whim. Every misdeed was treated with a “boys will be boys” forgiveness and all slight positives were heaped with praise. In his education when a teacher dared to question his self perceived brilliance he beat him to death with a desk lamp, only to avoid any punishment due to lawyers and bribes his parents paid for.

After the cover up he refused to continue any studies… and instead educated himself on the methods of controlling other humans more effectively. The experimental psychology of Doctor Kruetz whose speciality was the psychological reaction to pain amongst the mentally challenged was of particular interest.

He also made a keen study of the bible, and gained a by-proxy tingle of pleasure every time he read of god smiting or punishing for disobedience. And inside he developed a yearning for that kind of power.

And as he yearned for a gaggle of people to obey his every order he believed that by joining the military he could bully and even execute his subordinates for disobedience. His families influence allowed him to pass over the lower ranks directly into high grade officer level.

After developing a reputation as a brutal and sadistic leader in the army, he was inspected and nearly sentenced to court marshal: his parents connections got him out of that too.

Leaving the army was inevitable as soon as he came across the people he realised he could control - his flock so to speak. It was the closest he could come to love. A perfect symbiosis of those looking for a higher power, and he looking for victims to abuse.
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Captain Braid
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2012, 07:06:09 pm »

You should also remember that a villan is never a bad man in his own mind.
To him, or her, their actions are perfectly reasonable.

Sadism may be how he or she see's the toughening up of a weak populace, not necessarily a means to gain pleasure (sexual or otherwise) from someone elses suffering.
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MarcusJuliusCroft
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« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2012, 09:13:36 am »

For his mentor have a relative, probably an "uncle" who is disliked by the rest of his family, probably for abusing the child.  Uncle could possibly be a Professor at a university, who early on influenced Flanders by giving some unorthodox role modelling, telling him things which he probably shouldn't have\ challenging him to do things that weren't in the general interest of his family.  Instead of him looking up to his father he looked up to his uncle.  Rebelling against his good family he chose to follow his Uncle(EVIL) causing the family to split and the Uncle being exiled for what he done. 

Does he really have to be a psychopath?  Or Sadistic? I don't think he would do that well if he truly believed he was the Messiah.  To be honest I see him using the "Messiah" as a means to a end.  More of a Profesor Moriarty/Lord Asriel character he is charismatic and uses that stereotype of "I'm the Messiah, bow to me" to fool the good guys, who don't realise until its too late.
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steamcowboy92
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« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2012, 05:40:55 am »

Working on my characterization and since I usually play the bad Guy I'm a little stumped as to being on the good guys side. Could someone read the stars await and critique my character? ?
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« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2012, 05:42:06 pm »

Working on my characterization and since I usually play the bad Guy I'm a little stumped as to being on the good guys side. Could someone read the stars await and critique my character? ?

I read his bio and the last couple of pages of the main thread, and wow, he seems to be a nasty piece of work. From soldier to terrorist to trophy-keeping serial killer...

You may be able to edge him into antihero territory with the right character development- it'll take some effort though, and you'll need to put him through the ringer. Highlight his redeeming qualities. Maybe have some new information from his past makes him show some regret for his deeds (example, he finds out that one of the "union outposts" he attacked was actually an orphanage), or his killing catches up to him and puts his new friends at risk (bounty hunter, perhaps, hired by a victim's next of kin). Have him realize that scalping his victims is making a nice clear trail back to him, endangering not only him but everyone around him; and make him care about that fact. Maybe even have him commit a few selfless acts, surprising everyone, including himself. However you decide to do it, though, it should be a slow change; nothing is more jarring that a sudden 180 degree personality change (although you can get away with it with some blunt force trauma to the head, it's pretty cliched though).

I don't think he'll ever be all out "Shining Hero" material; that kind of extreme personality switch would require the aforementioned head trauma.  Tongue
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steamcowboy92
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2012, 05:25:59 am »

h
Working on my characterization and since I usually play the bad Guy I'm a little stumped as to being on the good guys side. Could someone read the stars await and critique my character? ?

I read his bio and the last couple of pages of the main thread, and wow, he seems to be a nasty piece of work. From soldier to terrorist to trophy-keeping serial killer...


heh heh heh you should read the whole thing. the last few pages are actually pretty tame compared to the first few
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