On the Cultivation of Language

[Lady Evelyn Grey]

I don't know if it says more about the quality of previous forums I have joined or the composition of people on Brass Goggles, but the level of skill and formality of language- especially in the metaphysics section- has left me very impressed! The puns, the well reasoned and articulated arguments, even the syntax of normal sentences, are above what is normally found on the internet (naturally, I could just be looking in all the wrong places.)

Seeing this level of literacy has lead me to a bit of wondering about the nature of language- either to steampunk in general or to personal experience.

~ Do you actively cultivate a love of words and speech? If so, how?

~ How important, in your personal opinion, is language to steampunk- either your steampunk persona or your day to day lifestyle?

~ Where do you find your inspiration for beautiful language?

I am always looking to improve my own writing and speaking style and would love to hear the motives and inspiration that everyone else follows.

[James Harrison]

A very good series of questions.  For me personally there a series of quite simple answers really (I'm sorry to disappoint if you want long and obscure references and such like   )

~ Do you actively cultivate a love of words and speech? If so, how?

Absolutely.  How I go about it I can't quite say, but I do have a certain regard for words and pronunciation.  Not to the extent of practicing my speech in the mirror, but I do seek out longer/rarely-used words and store them away for later use... even if I sometimes struggle to pronounce them correctly!  

~ How important, in your personal opinion, is language to steampunk- either your steampunk persona or your day to day lifestyle?

To my mind it is absolutely essential.  Steampunk 'began', of course, as a literary genre- so language must necessarily lie pretty close to its core, even if it is not an immediately obvious trait of the style.  In my day-to-day lifestyle (which is pretty much indistinguishable from my Steampunk- both are equally Edwardian!), I always use 'proper' language.  Even in text messages, visagetome 'chats' and other limited-character/message length scenarios.  Except for Twitter.  Because I don't use it.  

~ Where do you find your inspiration for beautiful language?

I go to the same source that K W Jeters, Tim Powers et al went to when writing their early Steampunk works in the 1970s and 80s- Victorian literature.  Starting around six years ago with a couple of H G Wells novels of the 1890s/1900s, I went back to Jules Verne (1860s/1870s).  When I started reading more contemporary Steampunk novels, such as Gibson's The Difference Engine, I became intrigued by his period inspirations- many of the characters are drawn as charicatures of those in Victorian novels- and that led me down the route of finding out works by Benjamin Disraeli (1840s-60s), Arthur Conan Doyle (1890s-1910s), Wilkie Collins (1850s-60s) and even as far back as Horace Walpole (1760s).  So in short my inspiration comes direct from a wide range of Georgian, Regency, Victorian and Edwardian literature and styles of writing- just not quite so stiff and formal.    
  

[Mr. Boltneck]

I think that most of us here are readers by nature, and that many of us read works from eras noted for complex and expressive language. Oddly enough, two of the authors whose writing has influenced mine were born at the end of the nineteenth century, and were both educated at Dulwich College, London: PG Wodehouse and Raymond Chandler.

[Lachlan_MacAuslander]

Speaking strictly for myself, the love of language, wordplay, and use of multisyllabic vocabulary came long before I was exposed to Steampunk - but it was a distinct pleasure to find a group of individuals who employ a more formal variety of speech than is common in modern society. I'm not averse to the occasional neologism, and I recognize that a living language ebbs and flows, with new constructions appearing and older ones falling by the wayside as new generations find their own particular ways of communicating among themselves while leaving the previous generations scratching their heads and decrying the decline of the language... but personally, I still prefer to type out my words in full rather than indulge in Internet abbreviations.

I cultivate this quite simply by reading a lot. I'm fortunate in that I read very quickly, so it doesn't take me nearly as long to slog through a Jules Verne catalog of fish undersea novel as it does for the average reader, but that's really the easiest way to cultivate a larger vocabulary - read voraciously, and keep a dictionary and thesaurus handy for reference.

Victorian prose is generally more formal than modern modes of speech. If one's Steampunk persona is, in fact, Victorian by background, attempting to mimic that quality of speech is helpful in making the persona sound right. Of course, if one's persona is more guttersnipe than gentry, the vocabulary will be entirely different (as will the accent...). If one is writing a neo-Victorian piece, getting an ear for the way the language was used will help the flow of language in dialog - but since it's being written for a modern audience, a certain level of anachronistic attention to modern notions of how a novel should flow are to be expected. Writing in the style of Jules Verne, for example, would be an exercise in gratuitous tedium for most...

I do have to admit - I haven't read widely among the actual Victorian authors. I've slogged through Verne's most famous works, and I enjoy most of what I've read of H.G. Wells so far, but the non-science fiction writers in general leave me cold - not a huge fan of Dickens, for example, and I have yet to enjoy a piece by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Mark Twain, on the other hand, is always fun. I'm probably more inspired by post-Victorians who were already copying the style of an earlier period in some ways, while crafting more rollicking adventure tales - Edgar Rice Burroughs, for example, whose "Martian Tales" involve mostly Civil War veterans who get involved in interplanetary adventures...

[citizen_erased]

I agree with the original post - the level of skill in language on this board is far better than most of what I see nowadays in other places. It does, admittedly, make me jealous at times, wanting to be able to do the same. Most of the time, I just look carefully at how everyone here phrases things and end up trying to mimic it (and horribly failing at it, sorry about that).

I wouldn`t be a language student if I didn`t have a love for languages in general. I love playing around with languages, even if I`m not very good at it.

As English isn`t my first language, and it`s mostly self-taught through more contemporary ways like television shows and movies, usually set in the current age, my English is at best a mixture of different styles and accents. On top of that it seems to be some sort of hybrid between Dutch, British English and American English, which you can probably see in my use of words and grammatical structure. Studying Japanese does not help either.

However, -especially so recently- I have been reading more things like scientific articles and older books (for example Sir Arthur Conan Doyle). That, combined with this board (because yes I totally pay attention to how you lot talk), so I`m hoping my English will someday become more advanced and better-sounding. Not just for steampunk, because in all honesty steampunk barely plays a role at all in my use of language, but because I want to improve my language skills in general.

I just think it`s very important to have a good vocabulary (and to be able to use it) and good language skills, so I can express myself more properly, preferably without accidentally insulting people. My vocabulary is often quite limited, which causes me to fall back on words I do know. I then end up trying to explain myself in an often confusing and rather ugly way. This frustrates me beyond belief.

So I guess that`s my personal inspiration - trying to create a more natural, flowing, beautiful language style in which I can properly express myself.

A big example for me outside this board is Stephen Fry. I love the way he uses the English language to express himself. That`s something I want to be able to do myself as well.

[Uncle Arthur]

Having a Mum who taught school for 60 of her (so far) 90years tends to make me a fan of proper usage of language. That said . If you piss me off yu would think you were dealing with a Victorian longshoreman. I can get a wee bit salty on occasion. Of course the fact that Firefox has built in spell check is also a big plus! LOL!

[Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz]

     I don't worry too much about trying to sound more period when attempting to write steampunk, since my standard writing style is already a little bit Victorian. At least it is in the sense that I use a lot of lengthy words when shorter ones could have been used, describe things in unnecessary detail, and go off on only marginally related tangents on a regular basis.

     I don't consider this to be a bad thing at all, as I tend to very much enjoy works by writers who write in this sort of narrative style.

[Arabella Periscope]

Certainly, the ladies and gentlemen of Brass Goggles are a joy to read, and the mention of P. G. Wodehouse and certain Victorian authors explains a lot.

  I believe that writing done with a fountain pen and edited painstakingly by hand kept all but exceedingly conscientious writers from publication in those days.  Jules Verne was obviously an OC type, Conan Doyle probably (sorry) manic-depressive rather like Holmes, since he wrote for days and nights on end without sleep, and P. G. Wodehouse (not as early a writer but a master of the English language) pinned up each page of his work upon the walls around his room and gazed at every one until he was satisfied that every word was as good as he could make it.

It is interesting to find dictionaries, encyclopedias, volumes of poetry, and books like "Enquire Within About Everything" from Victorian and Edwardian times when writing in Steampunk mode.

Do you think perhaps manners contributed?  Being careful of the feelings of others may have influenced the way in which things were written and spoken?

[ForestB]

All that I know is that I have been an avid reader since age three, and I just think language and vocabulary are fun... Using and learning new and obscure terms is something that comes naturally to me, and evidentially I have passed on this tendency to my oldest child. He is nine and a self proclaimed correcter of other people's grammar, much to the annoyance of his younger brother...

[von Corax]

I too have been an utterly voracious reader for as long as I can remember, and was (I'm told) grammatically correct at the age of three. (Apparently I completely skipped over both single-word productions and verb regularization. ) Through such near-continuous exposure to both good and bad writing, I suppose I could not help but develop an appreciation for the potential beauty of language. The fact that my native tongue is possessed of a particularly rich and nuanced vocabulary can only have intensified the addictive pleasure of exercising my linguistic faculties (and like any strength, the linguistic faculties need constant exercise simply to maintain, let alone strengthen.)

The fact that Prof. von Corax is something of a caricature of my mundane self merely affords exaggerated opportunities for verbal self-expression.

As Rev. C. L. Dodgson once said,

"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."

"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master — that's all."

[Lady Toadflinger]

I, too, am a voracious reader. I love words! I inherited this, or it rubbed off, (genitics or environment?) from my mother. She had always wanted to be an English teacher, but circumstances didn't allow it. She fostered a love of reading and proper grammar in her three daughters, and left me a shelf of obscure books on origins of words and expressions. I enjoy reading books set in different areas and eras, so I can collect various regional sayings and expressions, using many in my daily speech. (Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit!-one of my latest  ) I enjoy reading the posts on these forums because of the quality of the language used. Keep it up, fellow word lovers!

[polyphemus]

I find myself entertaining contradictory opinions simultaneously, which is probably more common than is generally admitted. I believe that languages evolve, grow, and change. Usages that we find perfectly normal were once bitterly opposed as vulgarisms.
At the same time I appreciate language which is well crafted and consciously used. That is to say, (whisper the word) 'Correct'.

And my mother was an English teacher.

[Captain Shipton Bellinger]

The written word does not have to be 'formal' to be both enlightening and enjoyable. The majority of Vagabond Gentleman's posts, for example, are by no means formal, employing colourful colloquialisms and a most 'earthy' tone. They are, however, well constructed, well reasoned, self-consistent and often powerful.

And that is what makes BG rather different, IMHO—the general level of command of the language and the thought processes behind its use.

[bicyclebuilder]

The English language is absolutly connected to Steampunk. The Victorian Era (mostly used in Steampunk) was all about Brittain and the influence of the English language on the world. Having a good vocabulairy and proper use of the language is an aspect of Steampunk. In my opinion, preferbly spoken in Oxford English.

For me, it's not the reading of books that triggers the correct line of words, but the fact that I don't like the text message language. To me it feels like someone wants to tell something, but doesn't bother to type in the entire words. On other forums I also write in full. It's a matter of respect. Also an aspect of Steampunk.

I've learned English the way many people in the Netherlands did, via television. We have subtitles, rather than voice overs. Reading the subtitles and listening to the spoken words, helps a lot with learning the language. Downside is that the most tv shows I've seen were American. It did give me the ability to hear if someone is from the east coast or west coast.

[Lady Evelyn Grey]

Wonderful! The patrons of Brass Goggles have not disappointed- either with the variety, style, or thoughtfulness of their replies. For, as Captain Bellinger rightly points out, all the fine flourishes of skill will not make an empty point meaningful.

Naturally though, these responses have raised a whole slew of other questions.

It appears that the best way to become a better writer is to be a voracious reader. This makes sense: the quality of output is determined in part by the quality of work imputed. Does anyone consciously choose books for the style of language? Or are you drawn to stories and authors who employ the more formal style?

People have also mentioned looking up new words they don't understand. Do you look up the words in a physical dictionary? Is that different than looking it up online?

Another common thread is having a teacher as a parent. My father became a teacher after my literary habits were already established, so what role did having a teacher in the house play? Were there certain games you played? How was a love of learning and words installed.

Finally, Ms. Periscope and a few others brought up the idea that beautiful language is tied to manners or respect for the other members of the forum. I agree, but am curious to see why it is. What is it about a more formal language that engenders respect more than traditional internet jargon?

[James Harrison]

It appears that the best way to become a better writer is to be a voracious reader. This makes sense: the quality of output is determined in part by the quality of work imputed. Does anyone consciously choose books for the style of language? Or are you drawn to stories and authors who employ the more formal style?

Interesting question; one that hadn't really struck me before.  All I can say is that I seek out stories that I think I may find entertaining; I then make decisions as to whether I enjoyed them or not based upon how easily I can understand the language employed. 

But then, I employ different criteria for different authors and genres.  I particularly like, for instance, the language employed by Anthony Trollope in his 'Palliser series' (written between the 1860s and 1880s).  However, if I were to pick up a more recent novel, say for example one of Terry Pratchett's 'Discworld' books, I expect a correspondingly more contemporary style.  If Pratchett were to try to emulate Trollope's style I would find it exasperating, infuriating, difficult and would in all likelihood give up after about ten pages. 

I guess my answer here is that I take the style of language in books as they come; all I can say further is that if the style doesn't appeal to me I then won't buy any more books in the same series, or by the author. 

People have also mentioned looking up new words they don't understand. Do you look up the words in a physical dictionary? Is that different than looking it up online?

I do both.  To be fair I don't see any difference between using a physical dictionary or using an online one, though it can be aggravating to say the least when I try to look one up online and have to wade through five or ten webpages to find a definition or spelling. 

Finally, Ms. Periscope and a few others brought up the idea that beautiful language is tied to manners or respect for the other members of the forum. I agree, but am curious to see why it is. What is it about a more formal language that engenders respect more than traditional internet jargon?

To type formally, in 'proper' sentances like this, takes time.  It also takes a certain degree of forethought and consideration.  Compare this with, for example, Twitter, which has been compared to 'a stream of consciousness dump'.  Formal writing in any context is not like that. 

My opinion on the matter is that to write in a formal manner, precisely because it takes time and thought, implies that the writer is being respectful (otherwise, why would they take the time to write in such a manner, rather than reply in a Twitter-esque style?) and also rather implies that what they have to say they have thought about, reflected upon and considered before posting.  Which compares favourably against the Twitter-esque 80-character messages that later can be considered brusque, belligerent, taken out of context.... 

[von Corax]

It appears that the best way to become a better writer is to be a voracious reader. This makes sense: the quality of output is determined in part by the quality of work imputed. Does anyone consciously choose books for the style of language? Or are you drawn to stories and authors who employ the more formal style?

I think perhaps it is better to avoid restricting oneself to literature with a particular style of language, as seeing how different writers in different genres and different eras gives added insight into the nuances of the language, as well as why those nuances exist. English is a bit unusual with regard to the fervor with which it evolves, and a great many colloquialisms make a great deal more sense once you know their origins.

For instance, I cut my teeth on Asimov, Heinlein and Bova, but in school we also read (and I quite enjoyed) everything from Shakespeare to Margaret Laurence's The Stone Angel (a bit turgid for my taste) to the short stories of Stephen Leacock to Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 (the censored edition, of course! ) to James De Mille's A Strange Manuscript Found in a Copper Cylinder. My parents are both avid readers as well, so we've always had books around, I got my first library card when I was quite young, and I would not have discovered P. D. James' Brother Cadfael stories had it not been for my mother.

Don't restrict yourself to the printed word; plays and movies (the older ones moreso) are also of benefit. I am fortunate to have grown up watching Elwy Yost's Magic Shadows and Saturday Night at the Movies on TVOntario, and seeing classic films presented and discussed by a man who never had to work a day in his life once he began making those shows has, I feel, harmed my literacy not in the slightest. Nor would I have discovered Cornwell's Richard Sharpe novels had I not seen the movies on The History Channel.

People have also mentioned looking up new words they don't understand. Do you look up the words in a physical dictionary? Is that different than looking it up online?

Personally, I turn first to my physical dictionary, because I know it's been formally intermediated, edited and verified. Most dictionary publishers' websites are paid access, which leaves disintermediated amateur sites like Wictionary, which by their nature must be treated as less than perfectly reliable.

Another common thread is having a teacher as a parent. My father became a teacher after my literary habits were already established, so what role did having a teacher in the house play? Were there certain games you played? How was a love of learning and words installed.

My mother and one of her sisters were elementary-school teachers, and there have been a few more teachers on both sides of my family. One effect this has had on my literacy is that I have always had access to books. Also, my mother read to me when I was a baby and encouraged me to read once I was old enough to do so. (My father used to send money to my nieces for Christmas with the proviso that they could spend it on anything they wanted so long as it was a book. )

Finally, Ms. Periscope and a few others brought up the idea that beautiful language is tied to manners or respect for the other members of the forum. I agree, but am curious to see why it is. What is it about a more formal language that engenders respect more than traditional internet jargon?

I think Mr. Harrison has pretty much nailed it. Formal language requires thought, and so composing a message takes time in which one has ample opportunity to ask oneself, "Could this be misconstrued? Have I perhaps misconstrued him? Is what I'm saying really worth the effort of saying it? How would I feel if someone said this to me?" and "Holy Cog! Was I really going to say that in public?? "

[Lady Toadflinger]

I always look up words in a physical dictionary. In addition, I only read hardcopy books.  I want to hold a paper book in my hands, and not be at the mercy of some electronic device.  I have a friend who loves books on CD, but these give me the "willies".  I also do not indulge in texting or tweeting. I guess I am old school in these respects.

[Uncle Arthur]

I agree on the hard copy books completely. I only use electronic book formats when I can find the information i seek no other way.

[Algernon Swinburne]

I'm not the strongest writer and during my sophomore year in college, I had a professor that would just lay into me about my creative writing papers.  It would really get me down so I told myself that if I wanted to improve my writing skills (it's far from natural for me) then what better way then to attempt to write a book.  I'm currently writing two books when I find time to, but honestly, since I've been posting on online forums, I feel my writing skills have greatly improved as well as knowledge from current events to pretty much anything and everything.  Do I waste more time on the internet than I would like?  Yes.  But I hope, at the same time, I'm doing productive things and learning.  I believe there are two things we take with us to the next life (if you don't believe in a afterlife, that's cool too) the first is our relationships with people we have met during this mortal life and the second is our knowledge. 


Message boards rule!

[Maxwell B. Cooper]

I'm also an avid reader and I've enjoyed the older linguistic forms ever since I read the Count of Monte Cristo. Since then I have been choosing books based on their language style (Jules Verne, Arthur Conan Doyle, H.G.Wells etc.). That's not to say I read only these types of books, I have a large collection of contemporary authors and enjoy their styles just as much.

In regards to looking up words. Although I do have a physical dictionary, I prefer to use the Oxford ebook edition (far more convenient since I seldom leave my reader behind). I also have found an online dictionary that has a pronunciation feature, making it easier to learn hitherto unknown words and their pronunciation.

While I didn't have a teacher as a parent, my mother was a speech therapist. When I was growing up she made sure I was pronouncing my words correctly and often admonished me if I slurred my words when I spoke. My mother's love of the spoken word rubbed off on me and a love of the written word swiftly followed.

As far as I am concerned Internet jargon is a pile of rubbish spawned from laziness and apathy. In today's culture everything is about immediacy and instant communication. Unfortunately the idea of instant expression has taken hold of the English language as people have sought ways to lessen the time required to put their point across. I'm not saying that language shouldn't evolve, of course it should. The language of a society is an expression of that society, but all this nonsense with acronyms is not evolution, it's degradation in my opinion. There is one exception in my book:

LOL

[Duellist]

At the time of my birth, I lived with my mother (Australian) and father (South London), paternal grandparents (Belfast), great-grandmother (RP, via colonial India), all of them readers.  I was reading/writing SF and fantasy from a very young age; at seven, I was writing about space-exploration.  Those odd accents fascinated me, I suppose.  I mastered (slightly Irish) RP, but always wondered about the different cultures each accent embodied.

I have been a professional writer since... I suppose 2008 was when I started regular paid writing work, writing for videogames.  Raised with books around me all the time, it was inevitable that I would tell stories.  I love to explore the strange and the unusual, only discovering years later that I shared my birthplace (well, within a few miles) with H.G. Wells.  I've tried being an engineer, a programmer and I've studied the sciences, but language and literature always dragged me back in.

I became a Steampunk only because I knew a friend of Captain Robert from Abney Park, a Canadian DJ I have since lost touch with.  Through him, I encountered a subculture who kind of matched my strangeness.  Also, I already had all the clothes...

[von Corax]

"RP?" I'm afraid I haven't heard that acronym this side of the Great Pond.

[Atterton]

RP is Recieved Pronounciation. It's like the British equivalent of Hochdeutsch.

[Duellist]

RP is supposed to be a 'neutral' accent, so not what the Queen sounds like.  (technically, I speak a southern English RP; there's technically a northern RP too, but it's not so well-known)

RP is what half the cast of Lord of the Rings sounds like, it's the default accent for Shakespeare, the one you expect from the BBC, the one you expect from James Bond...