*CANCELLED* A Journey Into Steampunk Festival Mid Wales 24th / 25th Aug

[Othniel Cope]

... the limited editin VIP tickets With Back stage pass...for £35 that's less than the festival ticket price

http://wefund.com/project/get-abney-park-over-to-the-uk/p44769/

There must be some mistake. A regular ticket bought in advance of this debacle would've cost £45. Now you can get a VIP ticket + backstage pass for LESS than the cover price?

How does that work?

Its a limited Edition...

I think they are doing it because every thing is so perfect that they don't need to do anything drastic to ensure theeir headline act show up and have therefore chosen to celebrate by relesing a ticket that costs less than a normal ticket and has a backstage pass attached...

 Now can we get back to the community spirit bit? it was touching to see everyone kind of united...

[Engineer]

I just can't believe the number of ways the promoter is finding to piss off steampunks who bought their tickets for this festival in good faith.

Call me cynical but I get the feeling that the prompter spent the airfare money for AP on hiring their massive marquee (hered in panic due to the recent heavy rain?). What's the betting that we get a really good sunny weekend for the festival, that makes it too hot to stay in the marquee!!!

[Othniel Cope]

I just can't believe the number of ways the promoter is finding to piss off steampunks who bought their tickets for this festival in good faith.

Call me cynical but I get the feeling that the prompter spent the airfare money for AP on hiring their massive marquee (hered in panic due to the recent heavy rain?). What's the betting that we get a really good sunny weekend for the festival, that makes it too hot to stay in the marquee!!!

I don't know what they're up to I guess they are doing what they feel they have to...I;m just hoping its an awesome weekend...

[Aethera Verdigris]

I just can't believe the number of ways the promoter is finding to piss off steampunks who bought their tickets for this festival in good faith.

Call me cynical but I get the feeling that the prompter spent the airfare money for AP on hiring their massive marquee (hered in panic due to the recent heavy rain?). What's the betting that we get a really good sunny weekend for the festival, that makes it too hot to stay in the marquee!!!

TBH, my heart sank when I read that £35 gets a VIP pass, I would be understandably p****d off too had I got tickets already. That said, and I apologise for my hypocrisy , I have just pledged £35 in order to get a VIP ticket - it is a very good incentive for those (like me) who have been in two minds about it. The risk is that if they fail to hit their target before the deadline Abney won't play and I won't get my ticket. Also pledging £70 would not get you two VIP tickets - your friend would have to pledge separately bearing in mind there are limited amount.
I fervently hoping this festival gets off the ground to become an annual event, any outlet to indulge in Steampunkery should be encouraged, but yes it should be in a quieter part of the SP calendar.

I still think our community should get behind it and put the glitches down to teething-troubles.

[Argus Fairbrass]

I would just say hiring a massive marquee is indeed very expensive, and very probably a smart play at the moment. Remember rain or not the risk is always there. I know someone who had their festival shut down recently because of it (it's pretty difficult to 100% guarantee the safety of bands and attendees when your electricity cables are under water, even when they are designed to be)

I doubt there is much they can do that's going to please everyone at this point, but it does sound like they are trying to salvage the situation as best they can.

[darkshines]

Can I also reassure people this festival has NOTHING to do with the Cardiff Steampunk Market also being held in Wales in August.

[TimeTinker]

Now can we get back to the community spirit bit? it was touching to see everyone kind of united...

Unfortunately the offer of better tickets for less money than was paid by the people who made the leap of faith and supported the event from the outset does very little to unite people.  It is in fact divisive in itself. You risk leaving customers feeling ripped off and unhappy with the latecomers who are benefiting from the largesse when they cannot themselves.

An example of how not to generate community spirit.

[Aethera Verdigris]

Now can we get back to the community spirit bit? it was touching to see everyone kind of united...

Unfortunately the offer of better tickets for less money than was paid by the people who made the leap of faith and supported the event from the outset does very little to unite people.  It is in fact divisive in itself. You risk leaving customers feeling ripped off and unhappy with the latecomers who are benefiting from the largesse when they cannot themselves.

An example of how not to generate community spirit.

This is what I was alluding to above, but equally some like myself cannot be sure they are able to attend until much nearer the time with The Asylum (which I am also attending) being so close.
I don't know.... The whole thing is getting me down and I've been trying so hard to get behind it and drum up some interest. I attended the Oswestry gig and really enjoyed it, not just AP but the other groups too. Ghostfire were brilliant and they definitely are at the festival.

Trouble is, the more people that put a negative spin on it, the less that will attend and then Abney Park's absence will cast a cloud over the whole thing. It's detrimental to the other bands playing.
Can we not say "Look they're making some naive mistakes, but we'll give it shot." even if only for the other acts? It's all Steampunk people.

I'm really looking forward to catching some the other groups out there, but of course that is not a guaranteed thing now that I've pledged my £35, but then who wouldn't want to pay the lower amount given the offer?

Gah.... why didn't they say £50 for the VIP ticket and not alienate the early bookers? So frustrated right now!

[TimeTinker]

Gah.... why didn't they say £50 for the VIP ticket and not alienate the early bookers? So frustrated right now!

That would have been a much better move.

As for "who wouldn't want to pay the lower amount...?" Of course everyone would prefer to if we are talking a simple transaction.  Unfortunately the arrangements mean that some people cannot pay the lower amount since they cannot return their original tickets and buy new ones.

This week the Memsahib purchased a very nice dress for a special occasion and was delighted with it.  Looking for a jacket to go with it she looked on the company's website to find the same dress on sale for £70 less on the day she purchased it.  She felt very cross and cheated, she described it as a sick feeling. She phoned the company.  As it turns out they have a no quibble returns policy so she has been able to order the dress online for delivery to the store.  She can return the original dress and get her money back and then pick up the reduced price dress thus still having the gown and being £70 better off (which I understand will be going towards some shoes from Irregular Choice).  She no longer feels cheated. 

[Aethera Verdigris]

It does make you sick when that happens, I'm glad she sorted it. Will have to look up the shoe company! 
Yes, this is an odd one regarding LSP. I suppose they will not refund because AP are not the only group on the bill; but equally their advertisements were heavily focused on the band and used them as the draw. The VIP reward is a last ditch effort to get tickets sold, but I'm strongly wondering whether they will make the final date. I'm keeping an eye on the WeFund site and I fear there's not enough interest to get there in time. I suppose then all those who have tried for the VIP will have to pay £45 instead.

[Madame Xanthe]

Hopefully the interest will continue to grow. I think the page has only been active a day or so, and, of course people are now taking summer holidays and payday is still a week or so away for many..

Fingers crossed that contributions continue to roll in. I'm recruiting my finances to make my own as we speak...

[Ancient Design]

Of course, the majority of people who might have done this crowd-funding thing have already paid for their tickets...

Speaking of which, has anyone who actually ordered the original tickets received them yet?

[Engineer]

Of course, the majority of people who might have done this crowd-funding thing have already paid for their tickets...

Speaking of which, has anyone who actually ordered the original tickets received them yet?

Yes. I ordered them earlier in the year and they sent the tickets almpst immediately. As the time I though that this was such good service that the promoter's team must really know what they were doing ...

[SteamBlast Mary]

Now can we get back to the community spirit bit? it was touching to see everyone kind of united...

Unfortunately the offer of better tickets for less money than was paid by the people who made the leap of faith and supported the event from the outset does very little to unite people.  It is in fact divisive in itself. You risk leaving customers feeling ripped off and unhappy with the latecomers who are benefiting from the largesse when they cannot themselves.

An example of how not to generate community spirit.

[Ancient Design]

Of course, the majority of people who might have done this crowd-funding thing have already paid for their tickets...

Speaking of which, has anyone who actually ordered the original tickets received them yet?

Yes. I ordered them earlier in the year and they sent the tickets almpst immediately. As the time I though that this was such good service that the promoter's team must really know what they were doing ...

Huh, I ordered mine months ago, not seen a thing since.

[Othniel Cope]

Now can we get back to the community spirit bit? it was touching to see everyone kind of united...

Unfortunately the offer of better tickets for less money than was paid by the people who made the leap of faith and supported the event from the outset does very little to unite people.  It is in fact divisive in itself. You risk leaving customers feeling ripped off and unhappy with the latecomers who are benefiting from the largesse when they cannot themselves.

An example of how not to generate community spirit.

Or it may be that these late arrivals with their "cheap" tickets save the day and ensure the festival happens with the headline act in place... 

Look... No one here can pretend they don't know why the promoters are doing their discount thing, which was my original point... they are doing it because they have no other choice which is what my tongue in cheek comment was all about...

All I was saying was... ok they are down... so is it time to help or put the boot in?  I

[TimeTinker]

All I was saying was... ok they are down... so is it time to help or put the boot in?  I

I started this post as a gentle response but it has grown a little. No one is trying to put the boot in.  The situation is such that that would be far too easy.  The trouble is Othniel that your comments and attitude seem to be stirring controversy rather than allaying it.   Your intention is clearly towards helping the festival go ahead but with all due respect I suggest you are actually harming it.

My response - which clearly has resonance with other members - was an honest comment aimed at the "let's ignore the difficulties and just step up to bail them out".  This is coming virtually exclusively from you and ignores the fact that a number of people are feeling exploited and ripped off and others actually feel guilty in profiting from the situation.

Your comments dismiss the concerns and unhappiness posted here which actually is the real community feeling.  It is not "community spirit" you are asking for but a "just accept it as it is the only way out (read back through the thread and check).  This in itself does little to encourage people to support things and in fact leads to entrenchment and is counter productive to the cause of bailing out the event.

The fact is; the community posting here on BG is clearly concerned about things and is disatisfied with the situation but even so are hanging tight in the hope it doesn't all collapse and they lose the event and their money.

If you want to generate support you have to be open and honest.  Accept the problems rather than dismiss them.  Then encourage people to support.

I simply made the comment that the way they are doing things is doing more harm than good.  VIP ticket should have been £50 or £55 with a chance for existing ticket holders to upgrade for the extra cash.  Result more money coming in from a wider number of supporters and less ill feeling from the folks who are ALREADY SUPPORTING THE EVENT.   Unfortunately desperation seems to be leading the promoters to shooting themselves in the foot.

This sort of thing is circulating:

If the company asking for people who have already paid for tickets to attend a festival to fund the airfare of the headline band offered a little transparency I might be more inclined to help. How much has been taken in ticket sales to date and what is the shortfall? £5,800 is the full amount to bring the band over, not the shortfall!

You have this still standing on the event's facebook page:

I am confused by this festival organisation. Our Sol Cinema and the Human sized Juke Box (Dukes Box) were both booked months ago. But no-one from the festival will even respond to our repeated requests for confirmation.

People are saying they have asked for refunds and are not getting a reply at all etc...

Community spirit is about listening to a communities concerns and dealling with them not about telling people they should sideline them.

The promoters are undermining their own case.  This may be through naievete, inexperience, misunderstanding or desperation.   Personally I would dearly love to see them pull the fat from the fire so a lot of my friends are not upset and angry and also newcomers to the scene are not put off.  Saving the event requires pragmatism and evidence of professionalism rather than constantly undermining the events credibility and causing people to lose both trust and sympathy.

I suggest you stop harping on about "community spirit" and requiring people to simply conform and support or you may see how much more harm you can do.

A final word of advice - go away and read up on the psychological concept of "reactance" to see why you are actually damaging the event rather than helping it.  Each time you tell people to just shut up and get behind it, you are actually turning people off to the event.  "Insisting on conformity" is one of the quickest ways to get people to want to do the opposite.  Being open about it and getting people to support the event whilst accepting their unhappiness is the way forward.

[Othniel Cope]

All I was saying was... ok they are down... so is it time to help or put the boot in?  I

I started this post as a gentle response but it has grown a little. No one is trying to put the boot in.  The situation is such that that would be far too easy.  The trouble is Othniel that your comments and attitude seem to be stirring controversy rather than allaying it.   Your intention is clearly towards helping the festival go ahead but with all due respect I suggest you are actually harming it.

My response - which clearly has resonance with other members - was an honest comment aimed at the "let's ignore the difficulties and just step up to bail them out".  This is coming virtually exclusively from you and ignores the fact that a number of people are feeling exploited and ripped off and others actually feel guilty in profiting from the situation.

Your comments dismiss the concerns and unhappiness posted here which actually is the real community feeling.  It is not "community spirit" you are asking for but a "just accept it as it is the only way out (read back through the thread and check).  This in itself does little to encourage people to support things and in fact leads to entrenchment and is counter productive to the cause of bailing out the event.

The fact is; the community posting here on BG is clearly concerned about things and is disatisfied with the situation but even so are hanging tight in the hope it doesn't all collapse and they lose the event and their money.

If you want to generate support you have to be open and honest.  Accept the problems rather than dismiss them.  Then encourage people to support.

I simply made the comment that the way they are doing things is doing more harm than good.  VIP ticket should have been £50 or £55 with a chance for existing ticket holders to upgrade for the extra cash.  Result more money coming in from a wider number of supporters and less ill feeling from the folks who are ALREADY SUPPORTING THE EVENT.   Unfortunately desperation seems to be leading the promoters to shooting themselves in the foot.

This sort of thing is circulating:

If the company asking for people who have already paid for tickets to attend a festival to fund the airfare of the headline band offered a little transparency I might be more inclined to help. How much has been taken in ticket sales to date and what is the shortfall? £5,800 is the full amount to bring the band over, not the shortfall!

You have this still standing on the event's facebook page:

I am confused by this festival organisation. Our Sol Cinema and the Human sized Juke Box (Dukes Box) were both booked months ago. But no-one from the festival will even respond to our repeated requests for confirmation.

People are saying they have asked for refunds and are not getting a reply at all etc...

Community spirit is about listening to a communities concerns and dealling with them not about telling people they should sideline them.

The promoters are undermining their own case.  This may be through naievete, inexperience, misunderstanding or desperation.   Personally I would dearly love to see them pull the fat from the fire so a lot of my friends are not upset and angry and also newcomers to the scene are not put off.  Saving the event requires pragmatism and evidence of professionalism rather than constantly undermining the events credibility and causing people to lose both trust and sympathy.

I suggest you stop harping on about "community spirit" and requiring people to simply conform and support or you may see how much more harm you can do.

A final word of advice - go away and read up on the psychological concept of "reactance" to see why you are actually damaging the event rather than helping it.  Each time you tell people to just shut up and get behind it, you are actually turning people off to the event.  "Insisting on conformity" is one of the quickest ways to get people to want to do the opposite.  Being open about it and getting people to support the event whilst accepting their unhappiness is the way forward.

Quite the epic...

I'm not going to argue.. I know you have a great deal of experience if these afairs (I mean this sincerely and you are probably correct in everything you have said)

i will however explain myself...

I too have a great deal of experience in event management, althiugh thankfully I am out of it now and wild horses couldn't drag me back into it professionally...
 
Generally it's a thankless task.. great when the goings good and horrible when you get it wrong..

I feel I must point out that I have no affiliation with this festiival or its promoters, I simply understand the pain...

I cannot speak for them or their practices...

Of course it sucks that people who paid for tickets in advance find out now they could have got them cheaper, I didn't feel this needed to be said as it was clearly unjust, but what is the alternative?

I am only  playing devil's advocate....

I can clearly see that the rain will have affected tickets sales (as it has with almost every outdoor festival in the UK) for a band they have previously put on succesfully and therefore have an idea of what attendance and revenue they can generate (promoting 1.01 one might say...)  I can understand how it would feel to have your headline act pull out via facebook (and I understand their reasons for doing so too... ) and finally I can understand why they would launch a last ditch attempt to resolve the situation via desperate means...

I am simply trying to show that underneath this mess is a series of tangilble problems that have lead to a rational chain of events...  None of it perfect and none of it wanted but I can understand... I am the only one?

In brief all I was ever trying to do was turm that frown upside down and show that with a little bit of Sunshine (positive thinking) this could still be a success.. I apologise if I've upset anyone...   

[TimeTinker]

Your response makes sense but you are still missing the point Othniel with this final sentence...

In brief all I was ever trying to do was turm that frown upside down and show that with a little bit of Sunshine (positive thinking) this could still be a success.. I apologise if I've upset anyone...  

People are p#ssed off.  People are feeling ripped off.  People are concerned that they may not see what they paid for nor get their money back.

You are ignoring these thoughts and feelings - indeed you are actively challenging them by quoting them back.

Sure you can try to inspire positive thinking and encourage people to pledge money to the event now to try and rescue it but PLEASE stop telling people who are p#ssed off to stop feeling they have been treated badly.  

That is the worst thing you can do and you are still doing it.

(Edited the quotes marks for clarity's sake...sorry.)

[Othniel Cope]

Your response makes sense but you are still missing the point Othniel with this final sentence...

In brief all I was ever trying to do was turm that frown upside down and show that with a little bit of Sunshine (positive thinking) this could still be a success.. I apologise if I've upset anyone...   

People are p#ssed off.  People are feeling ripped off.  People are concerned that they may not see what they paid for nor get their money back.

You are ignoring these thoughts and feelings - indeed you are actively challenging them by quoting them back.

Sure you can try to inspire positive thinking and encourage people to pledge money to the event now to try and rescue it but PLEASE stop telling people who are p#ssed off to stop feeling they have been treated badly.   

That is the worst thing you can do and you are still doing it.

Well I am at least glad I am not the only one defeated by the multi quote function ... I swear I've never managed to get one to work (on any forum)

I am pretty much going to just stop with this thread because clearly I am not helping...

I gave up promoting years ago and I'm going to lock up instinctual fondness for underdogs and hopeless causes and just bow out now...

because ultimately this is none of my business...

[TimeTinker]

I gave up promoting years ago and I'm going to lock up instinctual fondness for underdogs and hopeless causes and just bow out now...

Ah, spotted the reason for the disagreement - perspective.  You had a promoters head on and see the promoters as underdogs and a lost cause...

Personally I see the individual steampunks as the underdogs. After all they paid their money in good faith to see Abney Park.  This is now looking unlikely as is the liklihood of getting their money back and even if the event goes ahead they have the sour taste of other people paying less for more.

You see Steampunks are the community.  Not the brass pound chasers. The people who are unhappy here I am priveledged to call my friends.  I have known them in the real world not just online for four years or more.  This is not just some issue for faceless people on an internet forum as it may be for you.

So the underdogs are the steampunks.  In my personal opinion though they will never be a lost cause since I have no intention of stopping fighting for them.

[Othniel Cope]

I gave up promoting years ago and I'm going to lock up instinctual fondness for underdogs and hopeless causes and just bow out now...

Ah, spotted the reason for the disagreement - perspective.  You had a promoters head on and see the promoters as underdogs and a lost cause...

Personally I see the individual steampunks as the underdogs. After all they paid their money in good faith to see Abney Park.  This is now looking unlikely as is the liklihood of getting their money back and even if the event goes ahead they have the sour taste of other people paying less for more.

You see Steampunks are the community.  Not the brass pound chasers. The people who are unhappy here I am priveledged to call my friends.  I have known them in the real world not just online for four years or more.  This is not just some issue for faceless people on an internet forum as it may be for you.

So the underdogs are the steampunks.  In my personal opinion though they will never be a lost cause since I have no intention of stopping fighting for them.

They are both underdogs... and a lost cause and a hopeless cause are two different things... and your devotion to that cause is admirable...Now I am really bowing out now... We clearly both want the best for the community, we're just seeing different paths to the end....

[Engineer]

Now that we've cleared the air on the AP/promptor issue, lets turn to somthing less contentious ... like who is actually going to this festival and are we going to get to meet up to socialise?

[sebastian Inkerman]

Not sure if everyone has seen the announcement on Facebook, but the promoters have held up their hands and firmly said that Abney Park will now not be playing at the festival. as a consequence, the Wefund account has been closed down and if you bought a ticket using that option and you still want to go you will need to purchase a ticket through the main website.

That said, there are still a load of bands playing including ourselves.

[SteamBlast Mary]

@*^%^&£"~)**!?!?!