The difference between ladies and gentlemen

[frances]

Yes, yes, I know what they look like under their clothes - but it is the how-much-to-reveal situation that I to want to discuss.

How come, even in steampunk, do the ladies show lots of flesh and the gents cover up fully?

Loads of the art shows ladies in underwear walking around the streets, whilst the men are likely to have masks and goggles in addition to long-sleeved jackets, long trousers and be buttoned up to the neck.  It is the same with many worn outfits too. 

Is there pressure from men to reveal lots of flesh or is it that ladies feel that at long last they can take off layers and wear what they feel best in?

[Lady Chrystal]

Isn't it the same for most groups in Western culture?

There are many ladies who cover up (in a more traditional Victorian style) - and even a few gentlemen who flash a little flesh. But you're right, much Steampunk fashion reflects that aspect of 21st Century life.

[frances]

Hi Lady Chrystal,

Yes, and there are the shoes as well.  There seems to be the assumption that we all can wear those gorgeous high-heeled affairs that are fashionable at the moment - http://www.steampunkboots.com/
I love them - but there is no way that I could wear them, I'd be hobbling after about 5 seconds.  The amount of sexy low-heeled shoes/boots is virtually nil.  Is it that I do not conform to the female stereotype and so are not catered for by the manufacturers?

[Stella Gaslight]

Granny boots are the way to go I think.  They look pretty but I can be on my feet all day and not have much of a problem. But be sure to look for wide heels at the base that make walking much simpler.

[bassspine]

I look good in a kilt, like many men. Does that help?


 (Is anything worn under the kilt? No ma'am it's all in perfect working order)

[andrew craven]

Looking at high street fashion and what the kids get in the male lines, I see more revealing things such as the trousers below their arse (which I hate personal) and low neck tee shirts, vests and shorts to display tattoos. Steampunk is not neccessarily exempted from modern trends such as these we see today. It is/can be apart of it. Theres that bloke who goes around the UK whose a body builder who wears all that brass armour, a really outre steampunk outfit he usually sports at events and he very much wears this armour with nothing on underneath. Wish I knew his name to show a picture!

[frances]

I also wish you knew his name 

[Stella Gaslight]

I wear long sleeves and skirts when it is cool and short sleeves and shirts when it is hot.  It is more about comfort than bearing flesh.  In fact my two outfits that have gotten the most complements are long sleeved with knee length skirts or have pants.

[Lady Chrystal]

Hi Lady Chrystal,

Yes, and there are the shoes as well.  There seems to be the assumption that we all can wear those gorgeous high-heeled affairs that are fashionable at the moment - http://www.steampunkboots.com/
I love them - but there is no way that I could wear them, I'd be hobbling after about 5 seconds.  The amount of sexy low-heeled shoes/boots is virtually nil.  Is it that I do not conform to the female stereotype and so are not catered for by the manufacturers?

Depending on your shoe size, have you tried men's boots? I'm large enough in the foot to be able to wear those made for men - which makes it a lot easier to find flatties! As Chrystal is a lady adventurer, practical footwear is entirely appropriate. 

[frances]

Oh, I'm OK with footwear thanks.  I was just making another comment on how modern fantasy concepts are at work in steam-punk attire.  I love all the skimpy clothes and the high heels etc etc.  Not for me, but they do look splendid on people.

However, I was thinking about whether ladies wore such things for themselves or was it pressure from other men or women.  Men seem to hide themselves away even more than in 21st century dress - is that a personal choice or is it because they want to make and wear all those wonderful gadgets?

[dashboardpirate]

I am especially fond of layers. When its cold I usually have at least 2 shirts, a sweater and a coat with jeans, When it is warm I usually pare that down to a shirt and vest up top and shorts or a skirt that hits at or below the knee. For shoes I am fairly practical most of the time though if I don't have a lot of walking to do and know I will be on display I will sometimes wear "killer heels", never if I have to walk further than a block or stand longer than 10 minutes though. The majority of the time I prefer flats, sneakers or boots. I am also almost never without a hat.

[Lady Chrystal]

Ditto - on both the boots and the hats.

I agree - the skimpies can look fantastic. But not on me!  :O

[dashboardpirate]

Oh, I'm OK with footwear thanks.  I was just making another comment on how modern fantasy concepts are at work in steam-punk attire.  I love all the skimpy clothes and the high heels etc etc.  Not for me, but they do look splendid on people.

However, I was thinking about whether ladies wore such things for themselves or was it pressure from other men or women.  Men seem to hide themselves away even more than in 21st century dress - is that a personal choice or is it because they want to make and wear all those wonderful gadgets?

There is a lot of pressure for women from other women to dress in a provocative manner, there is also media influence and the influence of dates or potential dates to factor in. I recently went to a bachelorette party and when I asked what to wear I was told to dress "sexy/slutty" I went punk rock instead ( A t-shirt I modded, comfortable black jeans, biker boots and a leather jacket) and compromised by doing my hair in a provocative style and vamping my makeup. As for the gents, I think a lot of it is about the cool gadgets...

[CapnHarlock]

I agree about kilts- I tend to wear them on many occasions, but also admit that I am an old, somewhat funny-looking guy, and try not to shock the unexpecting onlooker, more than needed at the moment. Perhaps only my opinion, and I hope in no way considered to be sexist, but women just tend to look better in a wider-spectrum of covered/uncovered.

[Mr. Boltneck]

I can't do much about what anyone, male or female, wears. For myself, while I do have a preference in day-to-day casual wear for sleeveless shirts (tank tops, stoker's vests, and so forth), I tend not to show a whole lot of skin beyond that. The world has unfortunate sights enough as it is.

[Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz]

     I find any large amount of skin exposed on either gender to be disturbing and morally reprehensible. I have a feeling this puts me in a minority in today's world.

[Herbert West]

All of the above goes double for fantasy and SF fiction, film, and games. Nothing grinds my gears worse than the infamous 'chainmail bikini syndrome'. 

    I find any large amount of skin exposed on either gender to be disturbing and morally reprehensible. I have a feeling this puts me in a minority in today's world.

I don't have a moral objection, but yes, I confess it makes me rather uncomfortable as well. Dressing like that has its place, but certainly not as day to day wear. And as far as I'm concerned, goes against the very spirit if steampunk.

It would be nice if we started teaching our daughters that theres no need to dress sluttily (is that even a word?) to be accepted.

[rovingjack]

I've always conscidered it to be part of the elaborate mating rituals of Homosapiens. The women tart it ups to emphasise their desirability to the male who are keyed to signs of sexual desirability. The Men get all impressively peacocked up to show their ability to outcompete the other men and demonstrate a power and comanding sense of rigid self control, all for the benefit of the women who look less for sexualisation of men and more for signs of fitness and dependability with a heaping of good provider.

[dashboardpirate]

All of the above goes double for fantasy and SF fiction, film, and games. Nothing grinds my gears worse than the infamous 'chainmail bikini syndrome'. 

    I find any large amount of skin exposed on either gender to be disturbing and morally reprehensible. I have a feeling this puts me in a minority in today's world.

I don't have a moral objection, but yes, I confess it makes me rather uncomfortable as well. Dressing like that has its place, but certainly not as day to day wear. And as far as I'm concerned, goes against the very spirit if steampunk.

It would be nice if we started teaching our daughters that there's no need to dress sluttily (is that even a word?) to be accepted.

Growing up I was taught that when I was dressing up it was okay to show some leg or some decolletage but not both. So a cocktail length dress was okay as long as it wasn't super low cut and revealing up top or more upper exposure was okay as long as it was within the bounds of good taste and my legs weren't also on display.

[darkshines]

I can happily do both, I can wear skimpy or be covered up. If I am being skimpy, I prefer to be among friends, indoors at a con for example rather than picnicking in the park, because as much as I trust you guys, I don't want wolf whistle from some disgusting chav, haha!

[Magdalena Hai]

Living waaay back in the periphery as I am, my perception of steampunk comes mainly from the internet. But I've seen a change in the past two years or so. As steampunk has become more mainstream, the images of steampunk ladies have changed much more scantily attired. Couple of years back ladies as well as gentlemen wore gritty mechanic/mad scientist/adventurer outfits with gadgets. Now it seems the gents are still doing it but ladies less so. I don't know if this is the reality of steampunk community or only a false impression transmitted by the treacherous depths of the web.

I find nothing wrong with the tight-laced, high boot side of steampunk as such. After all, women can be sexy, tough and intelligent at the same time. But if that one style of attire becomes a rule, a must... Well. I'll be the one with the man-boots and a fake moustach, thank you very much.

 

[Argus Fairbrass]

It won't ever become a rule, but it has been happening for quite a while. A certain young Lady started her SP clothing line back in 2006, many of her outfits are what one could describe as skimpy. But she does the full on Victorian walking suits too.

To a degree it depends what aspects you are going for. As well as Saloon Girl, Can Can and Burlesque (the provocative Parisienne influence of the C19Th), Steampunk style can blend Post Apocalyptic, Punk, Goth, Bohemian, Tribal and even kink and fetish influences amongst other things. And of course there is the Sci Fi and fantasy aspects as well, and at times as we all know that can get a little raunchy. How did this happen? simples. Most of the folks I know about who are better known names in the SP fashion world, started off in the business of making LARP and fantasy cosplay outfits, and often are (or were) Punk/Goth/Fetish/Fantasy models themselves.

It's not compulsory but it's an aspect that appeals to some folks (quel suprise) As to why some women are happy and confident enough to walk around in skimpy outfits, I really have no idea. In some cases it's peer pressure and media influence no doubt, but particularly for the younger generations it seems to have become so standard, I really don't believe they're even thinking about it anymore.

I'm one of the few people I know that still wears an overcoat in winter. I often chuckle at the thought of how wimpy I must appear when walking past groups of women in mini skirts/dresses with never so much as a goosebump in sight. They're certainly tough, I'll give them that much.

As to why we're possibly seeing more of it now on the internet than we have before. I think we all know the answer to that, Even Steampunks exist in a world where sex and money are the new gods. And to quote one Christopher Hitchens (RIP) “The gods that we've made, are exactly the gods you'd expect to be made by a species that's about half a chromosome away from being chimpanzee.”

[Capt. Dirigible]

In any subculture where 'dressing up' is involved there will always be the women who want to go for the 'sexy' version of the clothing.

As for the gents covering up..well we're emulating Victorian gents and adventurers who did tend to wear  clothes that covered their entire bodies...even in hot weather they'd be wearing high collars, waistcoats, jackets and a hat. The only circumstances I can think of where a male steampunk would be exposing flesh would be in a Vicwardian bathing costume, in a kilt or in shorts (the khaki type worn with a safari jacket). Believe me, there are times when attending  events (especially in the Summer) I wish I could get away with wearing less clothing but then one tends to lose the whole Vicwardian image one set out  to achieve. Women are lucky insomuch as they can expose  arms and shoulders and even legs in the name of steampunk and it's quite acceptable.

[Unsubtle Pete]

I think a some of it is not so much men not dressing to impress, just doing it differently. The world needs more men in tight trousers 

[von Corax]

I'm with Capt. Harlock — female bodies are just generally much prettier than male bodies. (At least they're prettier than any of my male bodies body.)

(Full disclosure: I do tend to "dress" far more comfortably when there's no-one else about to take offense.)

(Err… There doesn't seem to be a "TMI" smiley in the set… )