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Captain Lyerly
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« on: April 08, 2012, 05:09:32 pm » |
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Much time and effort, evidently, was spent in Victorian times on one-upsmanship. Especially in the States, where there wasn't even the dying framework of an aristocracy to put people in there proper places, to keep up with the Joneses was a time-consuming and expensive process.
Old silver is one of my favorite examples of this. It wasn't just knowing which fork to use for the ice cream, after all. One had to know all sorts of things about what to use for which, and how. This was marketing genius for companies like Gorham, Kirk, and Towle; they invented things that "everybody knew about" and if some unlucky hostess didn't have one, it would be social ruin!
The fish-serving set was simple; and everybody knew one had to have a set of cherry forks. But... a chocolate muddling spoon? One spoon, ever-so-slightly different from an iced-tea spoon, to keep the chocolate stirred as it was served. No other purpose. A marrow-scoop, with attached pusher - mmmmm, marrow, what a delicacy. Julep-sippers; imagine the gauchery of serving a julep without the proper sipper! And one of my favorites - a serving fork for chipped beef. Yes, the absolute all-time wonder dish of slop-on-a-shingle deserved its very own serving piece.
And all so a hostess could feel smug about having just the right bit of equipment to serve her guests - and gossip about the Joneses, who stirred their chocolate with an iced-tea spoon, who had no julep-sippers, and certainly wouldn't know how to use an aspic-scoop if they had one!
Cheers!
Chas.
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Captain Sir Charles A. Lyerly, O.B.T.
Soldier of Fortune and Gentleman Adventurer
wire: captain_lyerly, at wire office "Yahoo dot Qom"
"You'd think he'd learn."
"Heh! De best minions neffer do!"
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pakled
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2012, 06:03:08 pm » |
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There's a book out there, don't remember the actual name, that concerns itself with mundane inventions like the paper clip, etc.. I recall an entire chapter on flatware, which explained how it was just as much the manufacturers as the customers who expanded it out. there's also an old joke about Episcopalians going to h**l (I is one) for eating dinner with the salad fork...  |
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James Harrison
Rogue Ætherlord
 England
Bachelor of the Arts; Master of the Sciences
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2012, 06:09:58 pm » |
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One story I quite like is how the socio-political environment, particularly of the early nineteenth century, led to a complete farce. The aristocracy, or rather certain members of it, tried to pander to the ideas of noblesse oblige and prove themselves fit to govern. By holding a joust, in Scotland, on a rainy August afternoon in 1839. It simply led to the participants being viewed as something of a joke. Wikipedia has an article on it here. |
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Persons intending to travel by open carriage should select a seat with their backs to the engine, by which means they will avoid the ashes emitted therefrom, that in travelling generally, but particularly through the tunnels, prove a great annoyance; the carriage farthest from the engine will in consequence be found the most desirable.
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The Squire
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2012, 07:08:51 pm » |
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Julep-sippers; imagine the gauchery of serving a julep without the proper sipper!
Cheers!
Chas.
 Suh!...I say, Suh, you malign the proper Mint Julep Cup as if it were some affectation of pomposity designed to belittle the unknowing. Well, Suh, let me tell you...wait, you may be right in that. Still and all, as we approach the 138th running of the Kentucky Derby in less than a month, it must be said that a properly-muddled Julep in a frosty Sterling cup is very civilizing, if a bit pompous.
(And I bet there are many mint juleps that will be slugged out of plastic cups next month.) |
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« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 07:16:48 pm by The Squire »
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"You don't mind breaking the law?"
"Not in the least."
"Nor running a chance of arrest?"
"Not in a good cause."
"Oh, the cause is excellent!"
"Then I am your man."
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2012, 10:56:21 pm » |
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I suppose a plastic-cup julep is better than none at all.
I like yours, though. Very much to the point of juleps and all that.
I don't know enough of the history of mine, other than that it was my great-great-grandfather's. And that it was obviously dropped at some point.
Cheers!
Chas.
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Hez
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« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2012, 08:36:26 am » |
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So do you suppose there is a market for sterling silver LED lightbulb changing tongs? They would of course be ever so slightly different from last year's popular sterling silver incandescent bulb changing tongs.
Oops. Please ignore the foregoing as the silly post this referred to has been wafted out of existence.
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« Last Edit: April 10, 2012, 03:11:36 am by Hez »
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Professor J. Cogsworthy
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2012, 12:45:39 pm » |
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A large part of the vast array of eating impliments set exactly in place on the table
was a way to weed out the 'new money'. You had to have that complicanted array
drilled into you from the start to be able to navigate it without hesitation or misstep.
The "new money" types just didn't have the experience and would show that lack
even if it was just a slight hesitation.
That was not not the only reason and it may not have been the real reason each new
was added, but it was used that way.
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No, no no, a thousand times no. Its pronounced - lah-BOHR-ah-tor-ee
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2012, 03:44:13 pm » |
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Exactly. The " nouveau riche" were considered crude and unmannerly; since in the beginnings the aristocracy had gathered their wealth in ways far more crude and unmannerly (look at the history of the Garibaldi family heraldic monks for an appropriate reminder), it was, of course, hypocritical. That was the reason each new piece was introduced by the marketing geniuses. Both so the "older" families - the Back Bay Boston types, the Nob Hill folks, the FFVs in Virginia - could exclude "the wrong sort"; and so that those who had gathered their wealth in this generation, instead of in their father's time, could hope to practice and get it right. However, if something was invented - say, the 'chipped beef serving fork' - in 1890, it would be difficult for a hostess to be more than passing familiar with its use in 1891. Therefore, much of the marketing of same was based on exaggeration, to say the least - "They've been using them in Newport for years!" Or, "Mrs. Vanderbilt had matching sets for The Breakers and Biltmore!" I'm so glad we are all past that nonsense...  D'Oh! Cheers! Chas. |
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Madasasteamfish
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« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2012, 04:03:31 pm » |
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A large part of the vast array of eating impliments set exactly in place on the table
was a way to weed out the 'new money'. You had to have that complicanted array
drilled into you from the start to be able to navigate it without hesitation or misstep.
The "new money" types just didn't have the experience and would show that lack
even if it was just a slight hesitation.
Well actually, that's what Mrs Beeton's was written for. To help the 'Nouvelle riche' navigate their way through the upper circles of the aristocracy and so they could hide the fact that their Grandfather (or whoever) had pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Of course the more outlandish items and attempts to weed them out were seen in the US, in Britain you were usually accepted as being 'in' after 2 or three generations, provided you were elevated to the landed gentry of course. |
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If tha knows about a better 'ole then tha can get thi sen in it!
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2012, 04:26:20 pm » |
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Indeed. Actually, it was right about the turn of the century when such things did begin to change, at least in the States. Whether it was the Horatio Alger books, or a new way of looking to and at the future, or the tradition of Rugged Individualism and the habits of the open Frontier, it suddenly became far more accepted that it didn't require money to have class; and that the having of money, land, and privilege, especially for generations, was as much a stumbling block to true character as it was any sort of advantage thereto. And those who used their wealth to bend the law to their advantage were only to be despised.
When it is expressed in a sort of 'noblesse oblige', a feeling of duty and a habit of giving back to society - Andrew Carnegie and his free public libraries, for instance - that is the best of it. But when it is a third or fourth generation wastrel spoiled rich brat - there are dozens of examples there, in movies or in real life - that is the worst of it. Those who believe that, because of their families' monetary position, that society and the world owe them something special... Nasty. Whether they have an inherited title or no.
Cheers!
Chas.
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pakled
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2012, 12:17:30 am » |
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If'n I remember Miss Manners correctly, one starts on the outer edges of the line of implements, and works their way inward as the meal progresses. I suppose the upsmanship culminated in Boston, where (I may have the names backwards) 'the Cabots talk only to the Lodges, and the Lodges talk only to God... ' |
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von Corax
Immortal
 Canada
Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics
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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 06:24:48 am » |
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As for the glasses, I have it on good authority (from the wife of a past Governor General) that it's not a problem knowing which to use, because the servants only fill one of them at a time.
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By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
By the Beans of Life do my thoughts acquire speed
My hands acquire a shaking
The shaking becomes a warning
By the power of caffeine do I set my mind in motion
The Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics is 5838 km from Reading
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2012, 07:31:09 am » |
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What about pliers to eat mussles with?  Usually, you have to use one of the empty shells to pick out the meat, but sometimes at a restaurant you see one of these. Very elegant. |
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The best way to learn is by personal experience.
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pakled
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« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2012, 02:37:23 am » |
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dueling clamshells?... |
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bicyclebuilder
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« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2012, 07:16:41 am » |
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dueling clamshells?... I don't get it. Is it some ambiguous way to say something dirty? I googled it, but that didn't make me any smarter. |
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Madasasteamfish
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« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2012, 11:44:25 am » |
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dueling clamshells?... I don't get it. Is it some ambiguous way to say something dirty? I googled it, but that didn't make me any smarter. I think it's because the box looks like the sort of case dueling pistols (or just pistols generally) would be kept in. They're silver mussel shells used instead of an actual mussel shell. |
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2012, 02:19:18 pm » |
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I don't understand... one has to pick out the oyster from the shell oneself? Sigh... just can't get good help these days.  Asparagus tongs. Mayonnaise ladle. Fried oyster server. Cracker spoon. Pickle serving knife. Cake saw. Tomato server (often fraudulently sold these days as an original Absinthe spoon, btw). Tomato server:  Absinthe spoon:  All the various specialized gadgets (well, perhaps with the exception of the absinthe spoon) were not invented to make anything easier, that's for sure. I think it took a war and a large increase in silver prices to end this arms race of the dinner table. Cheers! Chas. |
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Uncle Arthur
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« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2012, 12:20:21 am » |
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Amazing array of useless flatware. In Victorian times my family was considered rich in this area. We had wall to wall floors.
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If at first you don't succeed , CHEAT!
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MWBailey
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« Reply #18 on: April 13, 2012, 06:50:42 am » |
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Amazing array of useless flatware. In Victorian times my family was considered rich in this area. We had wall to wall floors.
Ha, my ancestors' houses (white relatives) had specially gapped flooring boards for chicken viewing... |
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« Last Edit: April 13, 2012, 06:54:24 am by MWBailey »
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Walk softly and carry a big banjo...
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von Corax
Immortal
Canada
Leverkusen Institute of Paleocybernetics
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« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2012, 07:00:46 am » |
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Amazing array of useless flatware. In Victorian times my family was considered rich in this area. We had wall to wall floors.
Ha, my ancestors' houses (white relatives) had specially gapped flooring boards for chicken viewing... So did they ever manage to see which came first? Sorry — I'll just get my hat... |
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2012, 01:11:15 pm » |
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La Contessa and I have been looking around at reference sites on line just to see what was what back then. We have found some howlers; but I think that (so far at least) the single best (worst?) example has been:
The individual terrapin fork.
An implement, specifically designed and constructed from a precious metal, that was to be used to eat terrapin, and only terrapin. Not turtle, mind you, just... terrapin.
And the "individual" terrapin fork implies that there was a separate implement, again constructed from a precious metal, that was to be used to serve terrapin, and only terrapin.
Yee, as they say, ha.
Z
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Professor J. Cogsworthy
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« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2012, 03:28:29 pm » |
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La Contessa and I have been looking around at reference sites on line just to see what was what back then. We have found some howlers; but I think that (so far at least) the single best (worst?) example has been:
The individual terrapin fork.
An implement, specifically designed and constructed from a precious metal, that was to be used to eat terrapin, and only terrapin. Not turtle, mind you, just... terrapin.
And the "individual" terrapin fork implies that there was a separate implement, again constructed from a precious metal, that was to be used to serve terrapin, and only terrapin.
which site might it be that you found that info upon?
Yee, as they say, ha.
Z
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The Squire
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« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2012, 02:38:10 am » |
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Aleister Crow
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« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2012, 07:27:54 pm » |
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Looks like it could make for a particularly nasty arrow head. Silver, is it? Oh, the werefolk won't like that at all. |
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'How cheerfully he seems to grin,
How neatly spread his claws,
And welcome little fishes in
With gently smiling jaws!' |
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