Steam interraction with Civil War / Victorian re-enacting?

[JeffOYB]

Hi... I'm new here. I'll get around to an Intro one of these days, but I've been 'steamy' for awhile (traces visible at my website at OutYourBackdoor.com).

I earlier posted in the Events section about the upcoming Detroit "World Steam Expo." It occurs to me that my main question there is actually of general application for the Steam events scene. Here it is...

How does Steam interract with other "realistic" re-enacting events?

I note that the Detroit "Expo" encourages steamers during its weekend to visit the famous Greenfield Village and Henry Ford Museum -- two great venues for Steam expression. It's Memorial Day weekend -- the biggest weekend of the year for these venues and a big Civil War re-enacting weekend. I didn't see any official mention on the venue websites of the Steam angle, so I'm guessing that it'll be a small presence -- but I don't know. I haven't participated before.

So how do "real" re-enactors react to Steamers strolling around? How does the public react to such a mix? I'd think it might be confusing to some. I'd also think it would almost be like crashing a party and that it might not be welcome at all. I could see a bad reaction. But, again, I have no idea.

I attended a big Civil War re-enactment awhile ago where I'm pretty sure I encountered a couple that was actually Steampunk and perhaps not at all "really" Civil War attired. I was impressed. They were very fashion-forward, a glamorous couple. But I have no idea how the other re-enactors might've reacted or related to them.

Here we have serious re-enacting ... plus play re-enacting and "messing around with" re-enacting ideas, turning them on their heads, etc. I see room for strife. I know re-enactors in general can be fussy about detail. Now here we have folks being *ironic* about it in the mix? Without invitation (as far as I know)?

In short, my sense is that I would feel weird and awkward strolling among real re-enactors with my homemade brass raygun and cobbled together "just for fun" Victoriana. But if there are a bunch of us. And if everyone is actually totally cool about it, then I'm game!

Whattaya think?

[Frolicking Johnson]

Lots of people dress steamy every day. I don't think there's anything wrong with going to a re-enactment dressed in SP gear. But you might consider leaving the ray-gun at home.

[Zeppelin Kapitan Fritz]

     I met a fair number of reenactors at Anachrocon in Atlanta, and they all seemed to get along very well with steampunks. Some of them are both reenactors and steampunks.

     However, I would not attend a serious reenactment in SP gear.

[KABAR2]

I believe at an organized re-enactment they would be less than encouraging especially when you
consider many re-enactors do much research and spend a lot of money making sure they are accurate in their portrayal if you just spent 3000.00 dollars on your uniform, weapon and equipment and some dude in a top hat and goggles wearing a rocket pack with bat wings carrying some brass plumbing pipe that represents a firearm wouldn’t you look askance at that person? and a bunch of people invading an event dressed so might even bring about some hostility..... Best stick to known Steampunk events.....

[pakled]

I did one day in a re-enactment, which was a lot of fun it itself. But yeah, some of them would probably be understanding, others...well any large group of people is going to have a spectrum of opinions. They talk about a 'period rush', which Steampunk...I dunno. Ask someone sometime

[Dr Fidelius]

To me, it feels disrespectful to Steam at a re-enacting event. That would be like roller skating through a museum - it is a serious venue, and not one where the ridiculous is expected or appreciated.

There is a great deal of overlap in the communities, but our contexts are different.

[Arvis]

 Yeah, I've often thought about the repercussions showing up in Steam gear during a serious reenactment engagement.
 And I think the reenactors would be justified in being a bit more than put off. Seeing how reenactments are supposed to be for educational purposes and the people being educated are the general public/school kids during field trips. This is plenty hard enough to do without a be-goggled airship gunnery crew showing up with a static-displacement cannon mounted on a horseless gun carriage.
 It would actually earn the Steampunk community an unfavorable reputation I'm sure. (first impressions and such)

 Arvis
 
 

[Charleson Mambo]

I've never been to a 'reenactment', do they have dress code for the audience/bystanders? Do they kick you out if you show up in t-shirt and jeans? Some of the comments so far make it sound like that is not beyond the realm of the possible at such events.


Charleson Mambo

[Arvis]

I've never been to a 'reenactment', do they have dress code for the audience/bystanders? Do they kick you out if you show up in t-shirt and jeans? Some of the comments so far make it sound like that is not beyond the realm of the possible at such events.


Charleson Mambo

 No, no dress codes for the audience.(out side of "you must wear something") It's not uncommon to see a fat guy wearing a wide brimmed straw hat, Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian flowery shirt, over sized camera around his neck chowing on a hotdog with one hand and swilling a warm Budweiser from a solo cup in the other while yapping about how they set up the infantry lines all wrong.

 Come to think of it...    ...I'm not sure whats more entertaining. The actors... 

 ...or the audience?

 Arvis

[Dr Fidelius]

I've never been to a 'reenactment', do they have dress code for the audience/bystanders? Do they kick you out if you show up in t-shirt and jeans? Some of the comments so far make it sound like that is not beyond the realm of the possible at such events.


Charleson Mambo

 No, no dress codes for the audience.(out side of "you must wear something") It's not uncommon to see a fat guy wearing a wide brimmed straw hat, Bermuda shorts, Hawaiian flowery shirt, over sized camera around his neck chowing on a hotdog with one hand and swilling a warm Budweiser from a solo cup in the other while yapping about how they set up the infantry lines all wrong.

 Come to think of it...    ...I'm not sure whats more entertaining. The actors... 

 ...or the audience?

 Arvis

I said I don't dress Steamy, I didn't say I don't go or that I try to disappear into the crowd.

[KABAR2]

Actually I know a fellow who did go to Civil war events in period civilan dress, he had business cards printed claiming he was a reporter and carried both confederate and union passes...... he also carried a Pinkerton card......... he had fun with it and the re-enactors had no problem with him being there....
if you dress in accurate Civilian atire with out the gears & goggles you would probably be accepted into the camp.......

[JeffOYB]

Thanks for the feedback, all!  : )

So it seems like attending a major re-enactment in Steam attire might well be weird.

So here we indeed have a major re-enactment...set at the biggest days at a major venue...for a very serious holiday honoring military service and the war dead...

...And we have a fairly well-publicized perhaps 3rd annual "World Steam Expo" suggesting that participating Expo Steamers go have fun at the re-enactment.

I guess I'm still up in the air.

Maybe if the Steamers hang out somewhat together and obviously on the audience side of things it'll be OK?

At the re-enactments I've been to the actors wander the crowds and visit event-boothshops like anyone else so there would be interaction, I'm sure. It'd be goofy enough for me to go out in a crowded public space all Steamed up, but I'm willing to dare! It might just be beyond my comfort zone to do it in with serious actors. But, who knows, maybe it's all "get along"? Michigan (Detroit) is a famously "make it up as you go" place, after all!  : ) 

Well, I'll keep trying to get official word from the event people. (Anyone here know of this event?)

[Prof Ainsworth Halfmain]

I imagine it also might be a matter of 'how steampunk' you appear vs how period you appear.  "How steampunk" is  a very subjective idea, there having been many threads on it and what is and is not, yadda, yadda.

However, one could possibly pass as a civilian in a period correct role if it was in keeping with the theme, e.g. a photographer, or scientist, or physician, telegraph operator, traveling carnival act or snake oil salesman, (balloon pilot?) and so on. Some latitude is possible, with a bit of steaminess inherent in the period if you so choose but toned down a little from the way out there scifi fantasy aspect of steampunk.

The corollary might be stated as how is one accepted at a steampunk event if one is a little too authentic in re-enactor style for the Victorian period. Would you be accepted and welcomed? In most cases, I find the answer is absolutely yes because at least it fits into the period. Even if you don't get all the attention for the coolest doodads.

One of the best cowboy action shooter characters I ever saw had based his personna on a old west era steam train conductor. Had great period dress, hole punch and pocket watch, and had fashioned a gun cart that looked like a caboose with a ticker tape machine, and a hand wind spark generator. I think he would have passed at a steampunk event pretty well.

[JeffOYB]

It's unfortunate that nobody with the event has replied to my questions yet about it to them.

Who knows, although they prominently mention how fun it is to visit Greenfield/Henry during the Expo it occurs to me that they might not even be suggesting that this visiting is done in costume! They don't exactly say to dress up. That's the NEXT line-item. Ha...funny the confusion that can arise when organizers don't reply to their public or set up their Forum to actually function (hmmm, maybe it's in my spamcatcher somewhere). It's hard for me to believe they don't intend costuming, but maybe they think it's obvious that nobody would go out in "public" all steamed-up. Maybe they know it wouldn't fit in with the official re-enactment (that they don't mention).

[Just call me Rob]

Generally speaking I would say that if you are attending as a particpant then you should dress authentically, but if you are attending as a [paying] customer then you can dress steampunk.

I'm sure different events of different sizes and flavours may require a bit of adjustment to that generalisation, and I have heard of some events asking that customers dress only in modern clothes to prevent confusion, but, at a large event I'd suggest a steampunk will just blend into the crowd - especially a multi period event.

Depending on your steampunk look there's often a fine line between steampunk constume and modern fashion anyway.

[Prof. Michael Masters]

I attended the World Steam Expo in Detroit the last 2 years but did not make it out to either of the off site events (reasons being: first year I was only able to make it for a day and last year I was a wee but hungover from too much revelry the night before  )

I will say this, being a person who re-enacts (war of 1812 and Roman) I have always felt that one should dress in a manor that is respectful to the history that we are trying to keep alive. I would never go to an 1812 event dressed in my steam gear. (At least not during the hours that the public is on site)

When one is trying to portray a specific time period one should do ones best to be as true to that time period as possible. Steam punk is fun but it has its own time and place. Also you don't want to confuse the public that is coming to learn about history.

As for the members of the Steam expo visiting Greenfield Village and The Henry ford museum given the fact that there is a group outing to these events, I don't believe there would be any issues. If someone were to ask about your attire it would be best to just tell them why you are dressed the way that you are and maybe suggest that they check out the expo for themselves.

[von Corax]

Generally speaking I would say that if you are attending as a particpant then you should dress authentically, but if you are attending as a [paying] customer then you can dress steampunk.

I'm sure different events of different sizes and flavours may require a bit of adjustment to that generalisation, and I have heard of some events asking that customers dress only in modern clothes to prevent confusion, but, at a large event I'd suggest a steampunk will just blend into the crowd - especially a multi period event.

Depending on your steampunk look there's often a fine line between steampunk constume and modern fashion anyway.

Well said. I'll just add that, as a matter of courtesy, I would try to choose my attire so as to avoid upstaging the participants.

[Uncle Arthur]

It's a case of two different worlds. Steam is great as a sub genre of SF. Reenacting is another thing altogether .  Simple courtesy would dictate that as steampunks we do not intrude upon others. I don't do the reenacting thing any more as I got tired of stitch counting and the like. I play my games for fun. By the same token I do not intrude upon those who enjoy the stitch counting aspects.   Life it too short to go looking for hassles.

[TentacleSociety]

I've seen Renaissance Faires where Steampunk clothing is welcomed, alongside other fantasy costuming. But I've found re-enactment events to generally be more restrictive. They're usually critical enough of their own members who mess up minor details on costuming. Re-enactors also (as a general rule) get really cranky about anyone who uses the term "roleplaying" to describe anything related to re-enacting. To them, it's "creating a historically accurate persona".

From a courtesy standpoint, for those who make a living re-enacting, or who at least attempt to earn back some of what it costs for their hobby, the distraction Steampunk costumes would create would probably not be appreciated, especially if you were toting large props or putting on a type of performance. At some events, performing when you haven't contracted with the event owner/coordinator to do so could even get you into some trouble. I wouldn't recommend it. 

[TimeTinker]

It's all about etiquette.

If you dress steampunk all the time then that is self expression but good manners would suggest that you tone it down so as not to upstage the re-enactors.

The bottom line however is "ask the organisers".  The venue may want the extra colour or just be grateful for the extra tickets sold. 

Indeed we have a growing trend in the UK of serious events inviting steampunks along and offering discounted or free entry and other incentives because they like having us there.  They do usually publicise this and this reduces or eliminates potential friction.

With regards to the visit as part of the Expo I understand that the venue is perfectly happy to welcome the steampunks as part of the overall festival atmosphere.

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Such events would be ones where re-enactors can let their hair down, and add to their normal gear with steampunk flourishes. One thinks of alt world fiction set in the period, Harry Turtledoves Guns of the South or Harry Harrison's Rebel in Time. Both act on the premise of a time traveller from the near future travelling back to the civil war era determined to change the outcome.

Both are reasonably well researched and make a suitable jumping off point for re-enactor steampunk.

Funnily enough I used to work with a civil war re-enactor and I lent him Guns Of The South and he loved it, getting his own copy.

[Herbert West]

 OTOH, re-enactor groups make great guests for Steampunk conventions/events.