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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 191611 times)
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #900 on: February 08, 2016, 08:22:07 pm »

Douwe egberts of course...
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Will Howard
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« Reply #901 on: February 08, 2016, 10:10:24 pm »

We know that!  Grin

Not ALL of us did... thank you, Caledonian.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #902 on: February 08, 2016, 10:25:35 pm »

You don't know that various types of whisky were first made (well before) the 19th century? Yur eductaion is shurely lackieeng in the veri basiks.

The concept of whisky being only a 20th century beverage is bizarre...
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 03:06:54 am by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
CapnHarlock
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« Reply #903 on: February 09, 2016, 02:31:37 am »

Not in any way a recommendation, but the Campbell Soup Company  has been making canned condensed soups since 1869.

My personal chuckle about it is  over 20 years old now.  I worked at an IT facility with an in-house cafeteria that posted the "daily specials" on a chalkboard by the door/line.  Someone apparently leaned up against the board and "Clam Chowder" became "Clan Chowder". I commented to my coworkers "Hmm.. must be Campbell's".  It took 2 hours for the first other IT geek to stick his head into my office and say "Clan... Campbell.. I get it.."  Rather sad.
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« Reply #904 on: February 09, 2016, 07:35:44 am »

Not in any way a recommendation, but the Campbell Soup Company  has been making canned condensed soups since 1869.


Indeed!  It was already on the list. Third from the top.

And I'm officially adding Entenmann's Baked Goods.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entenmann%27s

Quote
Entenmann's is a company that is over 100 years old and originated in New York City. William Entenmann learned the trade of baking from his father in Stuttgart, Germany, and used his acquired skills to work in a bakery in the US, eventually opening his own bakery in 1898 on Rogers Avenue in Brooklyn.[1] Later, William moved his bakery to Bay Shore, Long Island. Home-delivery was a substantial part of the bakery that William owned, eventually turning into 30 home delivery routes by the time his son, William Jr, took over the bakery.[1] While William Jr headed the bakery, it flourished; Frank Sinatra was a weekly customer.


Entenmann's is currently owned by Grupo Bimbo, and has been ubiquitous on American shelves for many decades.

Entenmann's baked goods (Founded by Wm. Entenmann in 1898, Brooklyn,  New York City, New York State)  

The updated American list
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 05:17:05 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Mrs Dill
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« Reply #905 on: February 09, 2016, 08:14:42 am »

1758 Samuel Smiths brewery well sunk - the oldest in Yorkshire.
1822 Huntley and Palmers Bath Oliver biscuits.

That'll keep me going!
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #906 on: February 09, 2016, 11:45:28 am »

1758 Samuel Smiths brewery well sunk - the oldest in Yorkshire.
1822 Huntley and Palmers Bath Oliver biscuits.

That'll keep me going!

I think we have those but keep them coming Mrs Veronica Digger-Dill.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 12:16:10 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #907 on: February 15, 2016, 04:48:15 am »

Tokay or Tokaki wine(s) Est. 1630?
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Keith_Beef
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« Reply #908 on: February 15, 2016, 07:25:42 am »

Fisherman's Friend Throat Sweets first made in 1865.  Apparently they still make 5 billion of them a year, which amazes me as they taste disgusting.

I think that Fisherman's Friends must be like Marmite; you either hate it or love it, there is no half-measure.

That reminds me… I'll have to look at the packet of Victory Vs that my daughter brought back from England for me.
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Keith
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« Reply #909 on: February 15, 2016, 08:04:40 am »

Have some beer:

Heineken bier (1864)
Amstel bier (1871)
Gulpener bier (1826)
La Trappe (1880)


Bavaria Pilsener (...1611...well that's old)
Brand Bier (1310...this isn't very victorian)

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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #910 on: February 15, 2016, 12:43:26 pm »


I think that Fisherman's Friends must be like Marmite; you either hate it or love it, there is no half-measure.

That reminds me… I'll have to look at the packet of Victory Vs that my daughter brought back from England for me.

The point of some strange things British, is that you have to change your mindset before trying them. If you have prior expectations or want them to taste similar to something you already know, then you won't like them. Take them as they are and simply enjoy the experience.

Victory Vs, Fisherman's Friends and Nigroids (Vigroids) are all items to be experienced, Altoids pale into insignificance beside them. They aren't exactly foods though they are palatable.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #911 on: February 15, 2016, 12:44:28 pm »

Have some beer:

Heineken bier (1864)
Amstel bier (1871)
Gulpener bier (1826)
La Trappe (1880)

Bavaria Pilsener (...1611...well that's old)
Brand Bier (1310...this isn't very victorian)

Beer, beer, beer, we have plenty of beer  - you need food.
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Caledonian
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« Reply #912 on: February 15, 2016, 01:51:51 pm »

Have some beer:

Heineken bier (1864)
Amstel bier (1871)
Gulpener bier (1826)
La Trappe (1880)

Bavaria Pilsener (...1611...well that's old)
Brand Bier (1310...this isn't very victorian)


Beer, beer, beer, we have plenty of beer  - you need food.


Klene drop from 1876.
bonus steamy commercial:
De Nieuwe Klene commercial


also,
Calve Pindakaas (peanut butter) since 1883

and Dr Oetker since 1891

« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 02:08:05 pm by Caledonian » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #913 on: February 15, 2016, 03:06:24 pm »

That reminds me… I'll have to look at the packet of Victory Vs that my daughter brought back from England for me.

They were a remedy in the past and not a sweet and were much more palatable when made with the original recipe: pulverised sugar, linseed, liquorice, chlorodyne (a soothing mix of cannabis and chloroform) and pure acacia gum. So many of our old favourites have been denuded of the original ingredients. I miss Dr. Collis Brown's patent remedy, no longer has chlorodyne but it does have Morphine Hydrochloride instead.
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RJBowman
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« Reply #914 on: February 15, 2016, 05:14:50 pm »

also,
Calve Pindakaas (peanut butter) since 1883

Wikipedia says that they didn't start making peanut butter until 1948. Peanut butter wasn't invented until 1884.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calv%C3%A9
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #915 on: February 15, 2016, 05:19:07 pm »

We must be accurate even if it means we need to be cruel. That brand of peanut butter is expunged from the list.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #916 on: February 15, 2016, 05:21:05 pm »



Klene drop from 1876.

[/quote]

I'd like to try these. What are the ingredients/flavours?
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Caledonian
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« Reply #917 on: February 15, 2016, 05:25:30 pm »

also,
Calve Pindakaas (peanut butter) since 1883

Wikipedia says that they didn't start making peanut butter until 1948. Peanut butter wasn't invented until 1884.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calv%C3%A9

The advertisement lieeeesss



Klene drop from 1876.


I'd like to try these. What are the ingredients/flavours?
[/quote]

It's salty black liquorige with no added sugar.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #918 on: February 15, 2016, 05:51:11 pm »

I have yet to appreciate salty licquorice the way the Dutch do, sweet is the way it needs to be for my mouth to appreciate it. Salty and sweet I can take though.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #919 on: February 15, 2016, 07:39:03 pm »

also,
Calve Pindakaas (peanut butter) since 1883

Wikipedia says that they didn't start making peanut butter until 1948. Peanut butter wasn't invented until 1884.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calv%C3%A9

Off with their heads!
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Caledonian
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« Reply #920 on: February 15, 2016, 08:00:25 pm »

also,
Calve Pindakaas (peanut butter) since 1883

Wikipedia says that they didn't start making peanut butter until 1948. Peanut butter wasn't invented until 1884.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calv%C3%A9

Off with their heads!

Please no! I need this head to finish my education. It holds my brains and such.
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Cora Courcelle
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« Reply #921 on: February 15, 2016, 09:32:34 pm »

I think that Fisherman's Friends must be like Marmite; you either hate it or love it, there is no half-measure.



So true .....
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« Reply #922 on: February 18, 2016, 06:59:23 am »

Can you still buy regular shredded wheat in America? My local stores only carry frosted spoon size.


Apparently, as a quick Google informs me, if you call the 800 number on any Nabisco product they will give you the name of the store nearest to you that stocks it.


Nabisco Shreaded Wheat for the last decade or so has been made by Post cereal under license. I don't know if Nabisco is even connected with the product any more.



Mr. Bowman, I owe you an apology.  Apparently I overlooked this post above altogether years ago, and today the issue was brought to my attention.  Better late than never  Roll Eyes  Grin

Shredded wheat was in fact a trademark, a company and a product. Shredded Wheat as well as it's name, was invented by Henry Perky in 1890, and marketed to restaurants and vegetarians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shredded_wheat
Quote
Henry Perky invented shredded wheat cereal in Denver, Colorado, in 1890. Inspired by his observation of a dyspeptic diner blending wheat with cream, he developed a method of processing wheat into strips that were formed into pillow-like biscuits.[1] The wheat is first cooked in water until its moisture content reaches about 50%. It is then tempered, allowing moisture to diffuse evenly into the grain. The grain then passes through a set of rollers with grooves in one side, yielding a web of shredded wheat strands. Many webs are stacked together, and this moist stack of strands is crimped at regular intervals to produce individual pieces of cereal with the strands attached at each end. These then go into an oven, where they are baked until their moisture content is reduced to 5%.

Shredded Wheat Co's advertisement for Shredded Wheat Cereal, 1909



The brand "Shredded Wheat" was licensed first to Natural Food Company in Niagara Falls, New York in 1901, and later the company was renamed Shredded Wheat Company in 1904. Subsequently, (National Biscuit Co (NABISCO) bought Shredded Wheat Co. in 1928, only to be sold to Kraft General Foods in 1993 although the name "Nabisco" was also licensed to Kraft et al. for the sole purpose of marketing shredded wheat (under the slogan "Nabisco brought to you by Post").

So, we have several names legally associated with the brand whether by direct ownership or license: Nabisco, Kraft-General Foods, and Post. In the UK the brand is licensed to Cereal Partners, itself a subsidiary of Nestlé/General Mills

To make things even more confusing, John Harvey Kellogg, the "evil brother" of William Kellogg, the famous quack doctor and nutritional genius, seeing as the product was not legally protected, obtained a patent on the cereal biscuits in 1915 (Kellogg's Shredded Wheat"), triggering a lawsuit from Nabisco which was fought all the way up to the United States Supreme Court in the case Kellogg Co. v. National Biscuit Co. in 1938.

Paraphased from Wiki, the court's decision was that the first patent for shredded wheat machinery (manufacturing process) had expired in 1912, and thus the name "shredded wheat" to the product had passed into the public domain along with that patent.

Hence we have a conundrum here.  The brand name is publicly owned.  Anyone can use it. The product is genuinely Victorian, AND several of the companies that once traded under that name, including Post and Kellog's exist today AND they use the name.  Even Quaker Oats have used the name.

Can we include "Shredded Wheat as a brand?  It may not be a legally traded brand, nor is it confined to a single company, but it's definitely a name recognised by the public, and the product today is in it's exact form as when it was first sold.

So now I must be the judge, as the curator of the American, Mexican and Japanese lists.  And I do have a historical and "legal" precedent.  I will use Article 4 of the rules for inclusion in the list: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35567.msg841253.html#msg841253

Article 4

The product only needs to be available for sale under a recognisable name. No company is necessary. Often times a product is sold before a company is formed, and so the earlier date when the product is sold applies: Example: John Morrell Ham was sold in the streets of Britain prior to the Victorian period before the company was established by the family descendants in the United States never to go back to Britain! If John Morrell Ham was still available in Britain, even as an import, then it would enter both British lists and American lists. There are a number of items shared in the American/British lists that came in under similar circumstances (A1 Steak Sauce, for example).

Under Article 4 there is no requirement that a company exist as long as the brand and the product still exist. Therefore any entity or company who legally has the right to carry this name in today's supermarkets can serve as a "carrier" for the brand in present day (in this case the name is publicly owned). Therefore, Shredded Wheat is a genuine Victorian Era Brand available today through several corporations, and furthemore potentially any entrepreneur or corporation who trades under the brand "Shredded Wheat" will also serve as a "carrier" to legitimize the brand in present day.

Now I have to figure out how to properly list "Shredded Wheat" as a brand in the format used in the list. I know. It sounds ridiculous, but "Shredded Wheat" is an existing brand name and even once fought over between Post and Kellogg's.

Another possible interpretation would be to say that the US Supreme Court anulled the brand name "Shredded Wheat" altogether.  But if I did that, Shredded Wheat would not enter the list, even though the product has existed continuously since 1890 under the same name and in perfect original form!!!


Shredded Wheat cereal (Originally founded by Henry Perky Denver, Colorado, in 1890, subsequently licensed to Natural Foods Company, 1901, Shredded Wheat Co., 1904, owned by Nabisco, Post, and patented by Kellogg's 1915, before being ruled a publicly owned name by the US Supreme Court in 1938).
« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 07:41:13 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
RJBowman
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« Reply #923 on: February 19, 2016, 03:57:51 pm »

One more slight complication to the Shredded Wheat classification: NaBISCO sold the whole operation to Post several years ago, so now if you buy the classic Shredded Wheat product, it is a Post product.
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Caledonian
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« Reply #924 on: February 19, 2016, 04:36:06 pm »

Campina milk (1892)
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