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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 191681 times)
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #700 on: January 05, 2015, 06:42:16 pm »

Will do!

Merry Christmas to you while I am at it too!
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #701 on: January 05, 2015, 10:52:44 pm »

Will do!

Merry Christmas to you while I am at it too!

I hope you had a Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year.  I think we're still in time for Epiphany.
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #702 on: January 09, 2015, 04:08:28 am »

Rowntree's 1862
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« Reply #703 on: January 09, 2015, 06:40:41 am »



I love Kit Kats.  Fun to learn they are a Brit creation.  I have never know a year without them in the States. 

Now, Rowntree merged with Mackintosh's in the 1930s, does that brand still exist? Even if only in the name of Mackintosh'd Celebrated Toffee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mackintosh%27s_Toffee) I'd say the name is still alive, and so that brand enters the list too.

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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #704 on: January 09, 2015, 06:46:25 pm »

Mackintosh's Toffee (English and not actually Scottish at all but just good branding as it sells toffee) is still available around the world, also the other Mackintosh Toffees that were previously sold as Mackintosh are still all made by Rowntree and are very popular: Quality Street and Toffo.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #705 on: January 11, 2015, 11:53:53 am »

Mackintosh's Toffee (English and not actually Scottish at all but just good branding as it sells toffee) is still available around the world, also the other Mackintosh Toffees that were previously sold as Mackintosh are still all made by Rowntree and are very popular: Quality Street and Toffo.


Apparently the days for Toffo are numbered (or they're gone altogether):

http://dundee.stv.tv/articles/295739-last-pack-of-toffos-in-dundees-the-sweet-stop/
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #706 on: January 11, 2015, 12:47:31 pm »

No!
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #707 on: January 22, 2015, 02:13:57 am »

The Bramley Apple 1862
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« Reply #708 on: January 22, 2015, 07:01:34 am »

The Bramley Apple 1862


Yeah, but is this a cultivar of Apple, or a commerical brand?  If the former it can't enter the list(s), but it may be appropriate for the companion thread: The Victorian Vittle Market Available Today: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35754.0.html
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 09:42:54 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #709 on: January 22, 2015, 04:49:03 pm »

I've put Bramley in the other thread, just incase.  Smiley
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #710 on: January 22, 2015, 07:05:03 pm »

Bramley isn't a brand, unfortunately, it is just a type or cultivation of an apple. Lovely though they are it can't go on the list.
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #711 on: January 23, 2015, 11:43:39 pm »

Batchelor's Mushy Peas 1895

Chivers' Marmalade 1873ish?
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 11:59:57 pm by Mercury Wells » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #712 on: January 24, 2015, 01:52:03 am »

Sounds good. Taste good.
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #713 on: February 12, 2015, 06:01:05 am »

Marshalls Foods 1880s (they also make Dinosaur shaped pasta)
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #714 on: February 12, 2015, 09:49:48 am »

And have you read about the controversy of involving Cadbury's in America?  A lot of British expatriates and otherwise Anglophiles are up in arms about this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/24/nyregion/after-a-deal-british-chocolates-wont-cross-the-pond.html?_r=0
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #715 on: February 12, 2015, 10:42:40 am »

An argument over nothing in particular. Cadbury's is not high quality chocolate in the UK but it is even lower quality in the US (that is what the Yanks seem to like, a recipe that is very sweet and sickly). There is an argument for calling the US version fat-o-late or choc-o-fat but in truth it could equally apply to the UK version. There is only one mainstream UK high quality chocolate brand that is worth eating these days and that is Green and Blacks, not very old unfortunately so it does not go on the list: http://www.greenandblacks.co.uk/about-us

Mars sells a full range in the UK and was up until recently largely based in the UK since the 1930s (I used to work there), Nestle (or Nestles as we called it here) sell a full range and there is still Duncan's from Edinburgh that made bars for the military. http://www.scottishsweets.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=5&cat=Duncan%27s



There are also a few older brands such as Rowntree's, Fry's and Bourneville Chocolate but they are all manufactured by the same main big manufacturers having been bought up over the years. Many of their products are still sold but now under different manufacturers, kit kat for example, which was Rowntree but is now from Nestle.



None of the mainstream makers use more than approx. 25% of cocoa mass and use vegetable oils instead of the more expensive cocoa butter. That gives Galaxy/Dove bars that creamy feel in the mouth, that in reality is ...vegetable fat in the form of palm oil. It isn't creamy, it is fatty and utterly unethical: http://www.lifewithoutpalmoil.org/2012/03/palm-oil-as-ingredient-cheapbut.html.

So, if Cadbury's is a little more crap in the US than it is in the UK, it means not a lot. However, Cadbury's in the UK has a lot more milk and less sugar than the US version and does not use any palm oil so it is ethically better and perhaps is less sickly. Hersheys' strikes me as being another of those big US bulk food manufacturers that cater for the lower quality/higher volume end of the market, similar to KFC and McDonalds. The Lord protect us.



« Last Edit: February 12, 2015, 11:42:06 am by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #716 on: February 12, 2015, 08:34:27 pm »

Sadly, that is the reality behind many Victorian Era brands that still exist today (renember "Breyers" Ice cream?  Even the US Govt. bars it from calling it ice cream).

Not really knowing what I'm talking about, I'm under the general impression that in the US we have a great many chocolate products but only a few actual sources for chocolate - and always focused on mass production (those of you related to the food industry please correct me). I feel we don't really have much choice unless we pay top dollar for it - and then it generally tends to be imported.  The American public seems content with the idea that higher quality foods will have to be imported, despite the fact that America lacks absolutely nothing in terms or resources and knowhow (and are we still the No. 1 food producer in the world?). It baffles the mind, no matter how you look at it.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #717 on: February 12, 2015, 09:23:34 pm »

I agree wholeheartedly and it is sad.

When I worked at Mars there was this idea of "appropriate quality" that you were not meant to discuss outside the factory doors. The idea was that when you started out a new release of a product you started with high quality ingredients and then you lowered the quality of each product in turn until there was a drop in sales, then you increased the quality one small notch until sales recovered. You did that to each ingredient in turn. You then had the cheapest possible ingredients without losing sales - and there you have it - "appropriate quality".

They justified it by saying "If we doubled the quality of the hazelnuts would it lead to a doubling of sales? - the answer is - No."

Have a look at those Green and Black's chocolate bars agian and see the percentage of cocoa in their products. Their standard dark chocolate is 75% cocoa derived. That is a standard bar purchasable over the counter and as a result one single piece of chocolate gives you the same feeling of satisfaction as a whole chunk of Cadburys or Mars Galaxy.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #718 on: February 13, 2015, 08:20:15 am »

I do have to clarify a bit, lest I become "unfair" to some American producers...  As in the case of "craft beer," there are in fact very good foods available made in small runs.  These outfits, do tend, however, to be rather small, and if not small, then they are "speciality" brands pushed by larger companies (such as organic supermarket chains) who sell more expensive products based on their business philosophy (such as organic products, special dietary requirements, sustainability, etc.).

The truth, however is that these "speciality" or "craft" products are universally more expensive than anything you will find at a regular supermarket (which is why so many people have turned to outfits such as Whole Foods, etc.), thus barring people of lower means from both enjoying and educating themselves about the potential for quality in whatever manufactures food, or distributed vittle we may be talking about (I do this in deference to some wonderful cow and goat milk cheeses I was given as Christmas presents).  

Having written that, in defence of regular supermarket chains, I can also say that seeing the competition from these specialist supermarkets, some people have begun to create their own "flagship" stores dedicated to a different quality philosophy - Besides "Whole Foods," in particular, I can cite the "Central Market" supermarket from the HEB food stores in Texas.  The "Central Market" carries a different line of products, looks more like a traditional market (sundry vittle), and tends to carry a greater number of organic products- sadly, again, all of it is more expensive than the "regular fare."

Whole Foods (the biggest "alternative" national super chain - incidentally founded in Austin, 1980): supermarket for the hipster, hippie, yuppie or otherwise "alternative person out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_Foods_Market
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/

HEB (a Supermarket chain serving Texas and also catering a few cities in Mexico, oddly it is also one of the largest chain "regular" supermarket in the USA).  They returned fire by founding the "Central Market," sub chain (1994). which is full of alternative, gourmet, and speciality labels:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Market_%28Texas%29

But most people don't buy at Central Market.  It is simply not targeted at a "general audience."  I know that when I want to find something special I can always go to these two stores.  But otherwise, it depends on the management of my regular supermarkets (for example, I live in an area with a large student and Jewish population, so our local HEB tends to carry many European goods not seen at other HEBs and also a Kosher deli.  And the HEB next to the Universality of Texas, is absolutely full with products from Asia, and Latin America (categorised by country), to cater to the students and compete with "Fiesta" a chain specialising in Mexican/Latin-American products to cater the local Hispanic community.

So its not all gloom in the land of the Bars and Stripes.  I hope I don't give that impression.  The problem is that you are not reaching everybody.

Travel just 10 miles north to the edge of the city, and you will find (very large) HEBs that carry nothing but American processed cheese, sausage, and all sorts of unhealthy snacks aimed at the American (caucasian) working class. Not a single imported product, other than perhaps the cheapest European beers (won't mention names) - if at all.  Zero ethnic food.  Zero organic.  Zero anything other than the mass produced saturated fat laden stuff. They did have plenty of American lager beer. all sorts of beef, and pork (Cowboy / Barbecue culture?)... Unbelievable that it's the same supermarket chain.

When I lived in that area many years ago (for only 3 years thank God - I hated the 15-mile commute), I used to travel 10 miles south to the HEB supermarkets that I mentioned before, if I wanted some good cheese or wine, or anything other than "cheese burgers."

It makes me sick to think that where you live also determines how well you will eat.  I understand that supers should cater to the local population, but they are also perpetuating ignorance and bad eating habits on people - based on income level.

*I stand down from my rhetorical soap box*


« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 08:31:58 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #719 on: February 13, 2015, 10:23:45 am »

Come over here, we'll feed you up.
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #720 on: February 14, 2015, 05:35:12 am »

The CO-OP 1863 (formally known as the) Rochdale Society of Equitable Pioneers 1844)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 06:21:09 am by Mercury Wells » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #721 on: February 14, 2015, 06:51:38 am »

Buckminster Tonic Wine 1890s

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 06:54:43 am by Mercury Wells » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #722 on: February 15, 2015, 02:17:18 am »

Jaffa Oranges 1850s?
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #723 on: February 15, 2015, 04:10:09 am »

All good but I am sure they are on the list.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #724 on: February 15, 2015, 07:57:16 am »

Indeed.  We are fairly complete, but I'm surprise to see just when I think it's over, I discover a new possible entry.

For completeness, the updated American List:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mexican and Japanese lists on the next page
« Last Edit: February 15, 2015, 08:03:05 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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