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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 191673 times)
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #675 on: May 23, 2014, 04:53:40 pm »

If Wimpey's had been in the US I doubt that Mickey D's would have ever gotten off the ground, It's my favourite restaurant chain here. Not fancy but good food.


McDonalds was originally a drive-in chain; a different concept from its final form, which would have distinguished it from Wimpy's if they had gone head-to-head in America. McDonalds usurped White Castle, a well-established America hamburger chain that pre-dated Wimpy's by a few years. McDonald's was just a very strong competitor.


Isn't this thread meant to be about food?  Grin


Indeed.  This list is about food, but do note that we have, actually, discussed a fair number of restaurants, and cafés on this list (e.g. Antoine's in New Orleans, El Globo in Mexico City). Many restaurants in the UK, America and Mexico, and probably Japan as well, can easily be traced to the 19th C.  It is technical possible, if there is enough interest, to have a Victorian (for Steampunk), and even Jazz Age (for Dieselpunk), list of restaurants.




Apologies for the sarcasm. I suppose a Mcdonalds does approximate to food.

Well, I wasn't thinking of Mc. D's.  That in fact would be Atompunk oriented material, as most artificial food belongs to the Atomic Age.  Grin  But once we start talking about restaurants a Pandora's Box is opened...

Let me move this reminder here (the page just turned):
Again, as a reminder these are the latest updates:

UK:  There was one finalised list but I don't know if the final list was compiled; we were adding individual items right up to the last minute (I'll need to ask Youreverluvinunclebert if there is a final list)
US: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35567.msg851645.html#msg851645
Mexico and Japan: http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35567.msg851646.html#msg851646

Each curator has his/her own definition of what goes into the list- and that also varies from country to country (there is no Victorian Era proper in Mexico, Japan or the US.  Instead I use other historical markers, e.g. Meiji Restoration):

We have another thread dedicated to raw (market) foods, like meat, and produce, and such that were available in the 19th. C.

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35754.0.html
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 05:03:42 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged

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« Reply #676 on: May 23, 2014, 06:00:18 pm »

I just looked it up and found that the oldest restaurant chain still extant seems to be A&W. They were founded in 1921 (not Victorian; during the reign of George V). If the Horn & Hardart Automat chain had managed to survive, they would be the oldest having been founded in 1912 (also during the reign of George V).

These two establishments owed their success to their creative use of the technology of the time; Horn & Hardart was based on coin-operated dispensors and served an urban market, while A&W in its heyday was a drive-in that mostly served suburban motorists.

Were there earlier restaurant chains?
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #677 on: May 23, 2014, 06:19:51 pm »

In the UK yes, Blackfriars Restaurant in Newcastle is reported to be from circa 1250 AD.
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« Reply #678 on: May 23, 2014, 07:57:35 pm »

Is there a chain of Blackfriars' across England?
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« Reply #679 on: May 23, 2014, 08:13:54 pm »

No, quite right, no chains. Very few UK based old restaurant chains of any sort exist in the UK. We just have US chains over here or derivatives of them, all of them recent. We never really had many chains in the first place, just individual pubs, restaurants, cafes, chop houses and the like. The Lyons Corner houses were the nearest thing we had to a chain and they are now defunct. Generally up until the late 1960s early 1970s the chains were largely unheard of. Wimpy was the first fast food type. Then the yank stuff hit us, impossible to stop. Mind you the food in the UK was really horrible up until then. Things did improve.

We had breweries owning chains of pubs, hundreds in their own areas where they distributed their beers exclusively. Many of the pubs would also serve food of some type, especially the Inns. If we take that as the premise for a food chain then we have food chains going back to the 1600s/1700s. The culture here was slightly different being mainly focussed upon drinking alcohol, food was just part of the bargain, after all you can eat at home then go and drink with your mates. My local brewery Brakspears has been brewing since 1776 and has had a few hundred tied pubs to sell its beer since the very beginning. Brakspears is still brewing and they still own a hundred or more pubs. I'm sure there are many much older breweries doing the same.

Here's a photo of a selection... I have drunk in them all.


Wikipedia says that Shepherd Neame have been brewing since 1573 and they would have "tied pubs" to exclusively sell their wares not long after that I presume.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 12:05:16 am by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
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« Reply #680 on: May 23, 2014, 11:34:18 pm »

Some American breweries used to own bars, much like the "tied pubs" in England. I once saw a bar in Milwaukee that had the Pabst brewery logo carved into its stonework.
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« Reply #681 on: May 24, 2014, 12:16:04 am »

Yeas.  I supposed bub chains would greatly precede restaurant chains.  1928 is surprisingly late.  But I wonder if perhaps "chain" is ill defined.  You have to remember the emergence of the modern department stores after Selfridge's who opened the first in-store tea-room.  Do restaurants in chains of departments stores count as chains?

A thread about department store restaurants in a restaurant history blog!

http://restaurant-ingthroughhistory.com/2008/07/25/department-store-restaurants/

Restaurant history blog:
http://restaurant-ingthroughhistory.com/






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« Reply #682 on: May 24, 2014, 12:59:27 am »

my apologies folks, it wasn't my intention to derail this thread, but before we leave eateries; In And Out Burgers (founded in 1948) is supposedly the oldest "drive thru"; at least in California.    
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« Reply #683 on: May 24, 2014, 03:44:38 pm »

Might be of interest

Rare, 130-Year-Old Coca-Cola Bottle Bought For $4 Worth Thousands

A Coca-Cola bottle bought for a mere $4 turned out to be worth an estimated $5,000
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« Reply #684 on: May 24, 2014, 05:09:26 pm »

I have a bottle of beer in my fridge that was bottled in 1963, dark stout. I drank the previous one a year ago and it was as good as the day it was bottled, probably better. No label. Not Victorian, but stout is a good steampunk drink.

@creagmor - you did not derail the thread - you took it somewhere interesting, the thread needed a shake in any case.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 09:13:07 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #685 on: May 25, 2014, 06:36:33 am »

@creagmor - you did not derail the thread - you took it somewhere interesting, the thread needed a shake in any case.


Perhaps if we get more momentum we can start a new thread - although the concept is still undefined (Victorian Restaurants Still Extant?  Huh )

For America you will not get as far back as Europe, because the concept is necessarily European. However, post-independence periods (1776 for America, 1821 for Mexico and so on), are reasonable periods to explore.  The lists would not be very long, for obvious reasons.

Example: Period restaurants in Mexico City (not all inclusive)
http://enmexico.about.com/od/Restaurantes/tp/Los-Tres-Restaurantes-M-As-Antiguos-De-Ciudad-De-M-Exico.htm

Hostería Santo Domingo, Mexico City, Estd. 1860

This is a pre-Maximilian period restaurant which was built in an abandoned convent.  Specialises on high-end Mexican cuisine ("French-Mex" including the periods preceding and following the French Intervention/Maximilian period),  rotating 70 different dishes per week, and is famous for hosting celebrities. Open 7 days a week 9:00 to 11:30


La Opera Bar (The Opera Bar and Restaurant), Mexico City, Estd. 1895.
This restaurant is right next to the "Palace of Fine Arts"  and is an example the strong French influence in the  style of architecture, which began during the French intervention (1861-7), and peaked at the turn of the century, during the administration of Porfirio Diaz just prior to the Mexican Revolution of 1910-20 (Civil War).  Naturally features high-end Mexican and French-Mexican hybrid cuisine as it corresponds to the historical period.

"The Opera Bar" is so named, because it features a bar imported from New Orleans.  Construction at the Palace of Fine Arts was postponed until the end of the Revolution, for obvious reasons. The "bar" is a preferred meeting place in literary circles and it is famous for hosting historical figures like  Emiliano Zapata and Pancho Villa (rebel generals during the Revolution), and famous literary figures like  Octavio Paz, Carlos Fuentes, and Gabriel García Márquez

La Opera Bar

El Palacio de Bellas Artes



Café de Tacuba, Mexico City, Estd. 1912.
Built during the Mexican Revolution, this cafe was bult in a 17th. C. private house.  It specialises in Mexican cuisine and the French-Mexican pastry that I talk about above in this thread.  The alternative rock/latin hip-hop Mexican band "Cafe Tacvba" [sic] was named after this restaurant.

Awesome pictures (can't embed all due to copyrights owned by Benetton of Mexico - but do feel free to click here): http://blog.benetton.com/mexico/centro-historico-basico-el-cafe-de-tacuba/

« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 10:03:50 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #686 on: May 25, 2014, 02:59:01 pm »

Most impressive restaurants but I do think a new thread is required for that Mr. Wilhelm. To survive here they must indicate a brand of some sort. My deviation to Blackfriars may have sparked that off so I apologise. I tried to get the thread back on line with the tied pub/chain idea which takes us back to the brands.
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« Reply #687 on: May 25, 2014, 09:48:18 pm »

Most impressive restaurants but I do think a new thread is required for that Mr. Wilhelm. To survive here they must indicate a brand of some sort. My deviation to Blackfriars may have sparked that off so I apologise. I tried to get the thread back on line with the tied pub/chain idea which takes us back to the brands.

Splendid idea. I'll start a thread for that. The question is whether the thread will attract enough attention.  It will take a bit of time, though.  I have to look for relevant postings that we have already made on this thread... Sadly the Victorian Vittles thread started by Mr. Fitziron just languished, in spite of the fact that it should be awash in 19th. C. examples.

To fix the problem of scarcity of Victorian-Era  restaurants I will make the thread both Victorian and Jazz-Age, and I'm not sure if a bit of post WWII Atomic Age is appropriate (That is the equivalent of Steampunk, Dieselpunk and Atompunk).

Do note that there is more potential for expansion, because having "brands" is a relatively modern concept for the 19th. C, and it's dominated by 20th. C. marketing.  A brand is basically a product of industrialisation.  Restaurants and Hostels are a much older concept.  Once you free yourself from the concept of industrialised brands you open a Pandora's box.

 Shocked  I keep recalling more and more examples just from this thread in my memory, e.g. The restaurants at the Driskill Hotel (1888) in Austin, Cafe Du Mond in New Orleans, and that photo of the Sanborn's department store restaurant with the Mexican revolutionaries on a make shift counter.  All the pastry/candy shops as well...

If I don't confine myself to the Victorian Era, the list should allow for much greater flexibility so that people can actually research and post as they find information; especially in North America. Our friend, Mr. Bowman for example, is always giving us Jazz age and Atom age foodie examples from America.  The United States list of restaurants will be greatly dominated by history from the 20th. C. for obvious reasons. I expect Mexican restaurants will go a bit farther back in time than US restaurants as well (e.g. those restaurants built in the ex-convent and the 17th, C house).  The European list should give you much older examples.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2014, 10:26:50 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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« Reply #688 on: May 30, 2014, 08:01:59 pm »

Guinnes - 1759
Twinings tea 1706
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« Reply #689 on: May 31, 2014, 12:14:28 am »

It isn't a chain nor a brand so it doesn't really fit here (and also it wasn't a restaurant but a pub) but it is worth mentioning as it is the oldest place I have eaten and drunk. It is - "The Royal Standard of England" - The reason I mention it is that it has its roots in a Saxon alehouse and dates from 900AD. Reputedly, men stopped to drink here (complete with blue woad faces) on their way to fight Duke William at the Battle of Hastings in 1066. You'll find it in Forty Green, Buckinghamshire.

It is good to drink in the same place where other Englishmen have drunk for over 1,100 years. Very satisfying.
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« Reply #690 on: June 09, 2014, 01:06:20 am »

Maizena

Maizena is a refined maize corn starch flour that was created in the United States in 1856, and was successfully incorporated in Mexico after the 1930's due to the preponderance f corn meal foods that are native to Mexico.  Sadly it can't enter the Mexican food list, because the brand did not arrive until the 1930's to Mexico, but oddly enough the brand can be found all over the world, thanks to the first successful exports into Mexico.

Maizena, corn starch flour  (Originally made in 1856, by Duryea Starch Manufacturing, Glen Cove, New York, ,  now produced by Unilever)


Quote
Everything started in 1856 when the Duryea brothers registered the Maizena brand in the United States. Their company the “Glen Cove Starch Manufacturing” already sold corn starch in grocery stores but began to package it individually in order to offer a more hygienic and safe product. Although it originated in the United States it is a brand that is strongly rooted on the culinary traditions of Mexico, so much that most people think Maizena was born in this country.

Maizena made its first appearance in Mexico during 1930: “The Corn Products Factory” which is known locally today as Unilever. At first their primary product was corn starch, but soon after Maizena released a variety of flavored mixes to prepare atole, which Mexican mothers began to use in order to give their children a healthy and delicious diet.
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« Reply #691 on: October 30, 2014, 07:41:34 am »

Dear ladies and gentlemen:

I
bump this thread, on the occasion where I found there is another Japanese food brand from the Meiji Restoration Period that I found.

The food name in question is Marukome (Estd. 1854), a purveyor of Miso, a traditional; paste seasoning product made from the fermentation product of soy beans, and occasionally soy beans together with barley and rice.

Company timeline:
http://www.marukomeusa.com/marukome-history

What is Miso?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miso

So I add:

Marukome (Purveyor of Miso-based products and seasoning.  Established in 1854.  Amori, Nagano, Japan)

~ ~ ~

Today, I just realised that there is another brand - not food, but an alcoholic beverage, which not only qualifies as being old enough to have existed in the "Steampunk period" (for Japan, the Meiji Restoration), but actually being much older than that.  

More to the point, I was drinking a cup of sake, when I read that one of the most popular import brands in the USA, Gekkeikan, is also one of the oldest still-extant brands in history, specifically being founded in 1637 by Jiemon Ōkura, in Fushimi, Kyoto, Japan.  According to Wiki, the name of the company literally means "laurel wreath".

Gekkeikan Sake timeline
http://www.gekkeikan-sake.com/About/History

So I also add:

Gekkeikan (Purveyor of Sake, rice wine.  Estd. 1637 by Jiemon Ōkura, in Fushimi, Kyoto, Japan)

The updated Japanese list (again I re-iterate the relevant "Steampunk period is the Meiji Era)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 08:34:47 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #692 on: October 30, 2014, 07:45:11 am »

And also for those who are just tuning in, the updated American and Mexican lists which I curate:

American list:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Mexican List: (Sanborns and Liverpool dept. store brands not included yet):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


« Last Edit: October 30, 2014, 08:18:01 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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« Reply #693 on: November 22, 2014, 06:02:43 pm »

Has the Bazzini Company originally of New York City (U. S.) been mentioned yet? A family opeerated business founded in 1886, they have been producing nuts & confections for over 125 years.  The WERE in New York City during the Victorian period, but I understand that they have recently relocated to PENNSYLVANIA.

I looked on the U. S. list & didn't see them.  Did I overlook them, or have they not been added yet?
« Last Edit: November 22, 2014, 06:08:14 pm by Will Howard » Logged

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« Reply #694 on: December 03, 2014, 08:44:14 am »

Has the Bazzini Company originally of New York City (U. S.) been mentioned yet? A family opeerated business founded in 1886, they have been producing nuts & confections for over 125 years.  The WERE in New York City during the Victorian period, but I understand that they have recently relocated to PENNSYLVANIA.

I looked on the U. S. list & didn't see them.  Did I overlook them, or have they not been added yet?


No, they haven't been added.  Never heard of them, though they claim to be official purveyor for New York’s Yankee stadium. Their website is really sketchy.  What is their market wholesale or retail?  Are these products available by internet/mail order only?
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« Reply #695 on: December 03, 2014, 07:40:58 pm »

Has the Bazzini Company originally of New York City (U. S.) been mentioned yet? A family opeerated business founded in 1886, they have been producing nuts & confections for over 125 years.  The WERE in New York City during the Victorian period, but I understand that they have recently relocated to PENNSYLVANIA.

I looked on the U. S. list & didn't see them.  Did I overlook them, or have they not been added yet?


No, they haven't been added.  Never heard of them, though they claim to be official purveyor for New York’s Yankee stadium. Their website is really sketchy.  What is their market wholesale or retail?  Are these products available by internet/mail order only?

I've bought their products here in San Antonio.  Maybe their website isn't up to snuff due to their recent move.
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« Reply #696 on: December 04, 2014, 09:05:12 am »

Has the Bazzini Company originally of New York City (U. S.) been mentioned yet? A family opeerated business founded in 1886, they have been producing nuts & confections for over 125 years.  The WERE in New York City during the Victorian period, but I understand that they have recently relocated to PENNSYLVANIA.

I looked on the U. S. list & didn't see them.  Did I overlook them, or have they not been added yet?

No, they haven't been added.  Never heard of them, though they claim to be official purveyor for New York’s Yankee stadium. Their website is really sketchy.  What is their market wholesale or retail?  Are these products available by internet/mail order only?

I've bought their products here in San Antonio.  Maybe their website isn't up to snuff due to their recent move.

My rules as a curator are more liberal.  I don't demand that the product be available nationwide, just that it be available for retail somewhere since Victorian times.  I'll give Bazzini the benefit of the doubt and include them.

Bazzini (Originally A. L. Bazzini, purveyor of processes tree nuts and peanuts, New York City, NY 1886)
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« Reply #697 on: December 29, 2014, 02:08:37 pm »

I thought I would put this in here for no other reason than it makes me happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJwh4CAuOmA
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« Reply #698 on: January 05, 2015, 12:38:25 am »

Rombouts coffee 1896
Atora suet 1893
Paxo stuffing 1901 (just scrapes in to the list)
Sharwood's 1899 (I was surprised at this one)
McDougall flour 1875
Be-Ro flour 1875

[edit]Margarine 1813? or 1869?. Also Selkirk Bannock 1859.  [/edit]
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 01:13:17 am by Mercury Wells » Logged
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« Reply #699 on: January 05, 2015, 02:32:04 am »

Rombouts coffee 1896
Atora suet 1893
Paxo stuffing 1901 (just scrapes in to the list)
Sharwood's 1899 (I was surprised at this one)
McDougall flour 1875
Be-Ro flour 1875

[edit]Margarine 1813? or 1869?. Also Selkirk Bannock 1859.  [/edit]


Thank you Mr. Wells.
Uncle Bert!  Attention UK curator!  You have new items to induct into the UK list!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 06:10:14 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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