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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 191677 times)
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #650 on: May 13, 2013, 06:40:53 am »

 (see the previous page in the thread for the American list and my last entry today-- I guess I ran out of space)

The Mexican List: (Sanborns and Liverpool dept. store brands not included yet):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Japanese list:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 06:46:51 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged

Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #651 on: September 01, 2013, 04:26:58 pm »

As "retro" packaging has been somewhat popular in recent years, I would be interested in finding modern production of Victorian-era brands in somewhat original-looking tins, bags, and bottles.  One can occasionally find Coca-Cola products in some vintage-style bottles - especially around here, the home of Coca-Cola - but I was wondering if anyone knew of other products in similar dress.

I think Maxwell House ("Good to the Last Drop!" - T.R) did a run a few years ago with a repro of an 1890s label (suitably altered for legal purposes), so I am sure there have been others.  Any suggestions!



Cheers!

Chas.
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« Reply #652 on: September 01, 2013, 05:06:33 pm »

The Hershey candy company has occasionally produced commemorative packaging for its candy bars, but the vintage designs are printed on modern polymer wrappers so the effect is not complete.

Best bet; check antique shows.

Or recreate the old packaging in Photoshop.
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Captain Lyerly
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« Reply #653 on: September 01, 2013, 07:14:08 pm »

I have thought of doing that; as you say, even with reprints, the labels are on non-period materials, or have additions that are completely OOP.

I do have some older containers that I can put new labels on, but it is still nice to find something on the open market.




Chas.
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Mr. Boltneck
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« Reply #654 on: September 01, 2013, 07:55:59 pm »

Around here, you can sometimes get Mexican Coca-Cola, which is still available in the glass wasp-waisted bottle. According to legend, it is still made with proper sugar, rather than corn syrup, and thus tastes like Coke as it was when older guys like myself were kids. Since I have mostly avoided soda for some years now, I can't vouch for the truth of this, however.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #655 on: September 01, 2013, 08:47:11 pm »

Around here, you can sometimes get Mexican Coca-Cola, which is still available in the glass wasp-waisted bottle. According to legend, it is still made with proper sugar, rather than corn syrup, and thus tastes like Coke as it was when older guys like myself were kids. Since I have mostly avoided soda for some years now, I can't vouch for the truth of this, however.

I have access to those 1915-style Coca Cola bottles at my local super. I don't know if my taste buds are sufficiently trained to tell the difference, though.

I do know that the sugar cane Dr. Pepper (1885) made quite a bit of noise when in came out here in Austin a couple of years ago.  Dr. Pepper is from Waco,Texas originally - and yes it is now made and sold in Mexico as well - "when pigs fly" I used to tell myself as a child in Mexico City 25 yrs ago.  Well pigs have flown already, apparently as 2011 Googlemaps reveal large American style soda delivery trucks about in the city, emblazoned with the Dr. Pepper logo.

They are quite popular, though I find it ironic we have to turn to the Mexican Coca Cola.  Maybe Coca Cola needs to show commercials with Americans stating that Mexican Coca Cola is better than American Coca Cola (when pigs fly).  In an odd foreign-culture worship phenomenon known as "Malinchismo" (basically a type of mass-psychology inferiority complex common in the developing world), some Mexicans I remember from my childhood would prefer American 7up to Mexican 7up and so on.  Any type of American food was a hot commodity back then.  After NAFTA that all changed, though.  Now there is absolutely nothing we produce here in the US that you can't find down there.  Even Mexican restaurants proudly display the "U.S. Meat Export Federeation" and "U.S. Pork" logos on their menus.

But I do believe they are using actual sugar.  May have something to do with the economics of availability of corn syrup in Mexico.  South of the border they have less access to the gigantic worldwide maize/maize products domination by the US and better access to cheaper sugar, plus (correct me if I'm wrong) in the US we have tariffs on sugar cane imports because we wish to favour Hawaiian crops.

EDIT:

I just saw this tidbit in the Coca Cola wiki:
Quote
Since announcing its intention to begin distribution in Burma in June 2012, Coca-Cola has been officially available in every country in the world except Cuba and North Korea. However, it is reported to be available in both countries as a grey import.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 09:39:25 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Arabella Periscope
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« Reply #656 on: September 01, 2013, 09:40:20 pm »

If the sugar tariffs are still in place, they should not be.  Hawaii is no longer producing sugar cane.  The vast fields of higher-than-your-head giant grass that used to cover central Oahu, so recently, and the mills with their all-pervasive smell of burning cane, are gone.  So too the pineapples, and the Dole Cannery, and the smell of burning (?) pineapple that permeated another area of the island.  Other strange crops are being tried experimentally, but corn syrup is so much more concentrated in its sweetness and so much cheaper and artificial sweeteners are so popular with the weight conscious (and they taste so much better now) that sugar cane is no longer a profitable crop.  Perhaps it will have a niche market with Coca Cola connoisseurs in the future. 
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RJBowman
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« Reply #657 on: September 01, 2013, 10:25:03 pm »

I believe that there is still a sugar cane industry in Florida. Circa 1990, by sister lived down there for several months and saw Haitian workers harvesting the crop.

There are also sugar beet farmers in the north; the beets are full of sucrose, and the product is interchangeable with cane sugar for must purposes.

But I am not sure that the preservation of this small part of our agriculture was worth the loss of so much of our candy industry to Mexico and Canada. Does anyone know the statistics for this?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 10:27:10 pm by RJBowman » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #658 on: May 21, 2014, 12:11:29 am »

Not sure if R.J.Balson & Son count? (Est. 1515).

(Please move if in the wrong place)
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« Reply #659 on: May 21, 2014, 12:39:20 am »

No, it is fine. I believe we mentioned it here before. However, it isn't quite a brand as you can't buy it in general across the UK. You have reminded me I will be popping down to Dorset soon and will give them a visit.
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Keith_Beef
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« Reply #660 on: May 21, 2014, 07:53:41 am »

Around here, you can sometimes get Mexican Coca-Cola, which is still available in the glass wasp-waisted bottle. According to legend, it is still made with proper sugar, rather than corn syrup, and thus tastes like Coke as it was when older guys like myself were kids. Since I have mostly avoided soda for some years now, I can't vouch for the truth of this, however.

Where I lived in New Jersey there is a very big Jewish population, and so during passover you can find in the supermarkets special "Kosher for Passover" Coca Cola.

It's easy to recognise: yellow screw caps marked in Hebrew. Made using cane sugar, not high fructose corn syrup, because of the rule of not consuming grain products during passover, but it's still in big plastic bottles…
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #661 on: May 21, 2014, 10:22:42 am »

Around here, you can sometimes get Mexican Coca-Cola, which is still available in the glass wasp-waisted bottle. According to legend, it is still made with proper sugar, rather than corn syrup, and thus tastes like Coke as it was when older guys like myself were kids. Since I have mostly avoided soda for some years now, I can't vouch for the truth of this, however.

Where I lived in New Jersey there is a very big Jewish population, and so during passover you can find in the supermarkets special "Kosher for Passover" Coca Cola.

It's easy to recognise: yellow screw caps marked in Hebrew. Made using cane sugar, not high fructose corn syrup, because of the rule of not consuming grain products during passover, but it's still in big plastic bottles…

I'm not sure that's quite correct.  I'm not Jewish but live in a fairly Jewish area and in the Kosher stores I see plenty of grain (wheat) products for Passover.  I think the dietary prohibition for Passover is related to yeast leavening (chametz) in the bread...
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RJBowman
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« Reply #662 on: May 21, 2014, 07:13:13 pm »

Some Jews consider corn products (such as corn syrup in soft drinks) to not be Kosher for Passover. Corn is a new-world grain that was unknown when the Kosher rules were written, so it is avoided "just in case".
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #663 on: May 21, 2014, 07:48:07 pm »

Some Jews consider corn products (such as corn syrup in soft drinks) to not be Kosher for Passover. Corn is a new-world grain that was unknown when the Kosher rules were written, so it is avoided "just in case".

That may be true.  I have learned a bit about it and there are "layers" to Kosher, depending on how strict a particular person is.  You have canon straight from the Tora (equiv. Old Testament for Christians; e.g pork meat is unclean and is not to be consumed), and then you have rabbinical law, such that even gentiles may not even be allowed to be hired and prepare Kosher food.  Some people use a different set of utensils and plating just to deal with Passover food, never mind generic non-Kosher food.

On the other hand there are some people who just bypass the whole Kosher thing altogether (famous food critics come to mind)...   I guess it's similar to the practice of Lent among Catholic Christians (absitinence from eating meat).  Depends on how rigorous you are and the particular conditions allowable by religious leaders.  A few months ago, I was talking to an Orthdox Jew worker at a local delicatessen, and he explained that during times of hardship if the only thing you can eat or if for health reasons you can only eat pork (he was discussing a hypothetical situation) then he would not feel it's a violation.  

Incidentally, one local brand in Texas for maize/corn tortilla chips became Kosher certified and I noticed it's presence at the Kosher deli the other day.  More eye opening is the presence of Kosher (beef) Chorizo! (yeah I know!!).  Given that Kosher foods are more expensive, that is quite an eye opener (well, it;s Texas - you have to figure that cultures will blend - and let;s face it Kosher Chorizo is a brilliant idea!  Just pass the Kosher tortillas  Grin )

Exception to Rules on Catholic Abstinence during Lent (Wiki: Lent)
Quote
Contemporary legislation is rooted in the 1966 Apostolic Constitution of Pope Paul VI, Paenitemini. He recommended that fasting be appropriate to the local economic situation, and that all Catholics voluntarily fast and abstain. He also allowed that fasting and abstinence might be substituted with prayer and works of charity in nations with a lower standard of living.

Still, you have no idea how much of a hard time I would get as a child from peers in middle school when I dared bring a ham and cheese or a chicken sandwich during Lent to school (I was basically non-religious, but casually attended church in Mexico as one of my grandparents was catholic and the other protestant)  Grin
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 07:55:53 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #664 on: May 21, 2014, 07:54:26 pm »

@Captain Lyerly - I've sent you a PM to give you a link to some retro OXO cube packaging.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #665 on: May 21, 2014, 07:57:34 pm »

@Captain Lyerly - I've sent you a PM to give you a link to some retro OXO cube packaging.

Nice to see you again Uncle Bert!!  Even though it;s a very bad week for me (see Dragon Tamers at Meta Clubs)

No, it is fine. I believe we mentioned it here before. However, it isn't quite a brand as you can't buy it in general across the UK. You have reminded me I will be popping down to Dorset soon and will give them a visit.

That particular rule of nation wide access in the British set of rules for the Victorian Food Brands list is more difficult to apply for me to the American list, because of the large size of the US.  You see many brands actually were always regional (like those sandwich biscuits with the strange name... Clorox?  Grin ).  Often times brand names would have to be changes from East Coast to West Coast because the name infringed on some other trademark or patent.

In restaurant and supermarket chains this happened a lot; for example Ralph's supermarket in California is Kroger's in Texas; In 1999 Safeway supermarkets bought Randall's supermarket; many of the in-store foods in Randall's are actually branded with the Safeway name.  HEB supermarket (Est. 1905) is one of the largest supermarket chains (if not the largest) in the USA, and yet they only operate in the state of Texas, and oddly enough have a few stores opened in 3 Mexican States (seems odd they didn't expand to Arizona, Louisiana, or Arkansas, but the reason is many Mexicans in the north of Mexico crossed the border to buy from American supermarkets, so the chain responded to the demand).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 09:38:14 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
RJBowman
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« Reply #666 on: May 22, 2014, 03:38:35 am »

I found a web site that says that some products that contain corn syrup are considered kosher for Passover; the difference seems to lie in how the syrup is manufactured.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #667 on: May 22, 2014, 06:15:34 am »

I found a web site that says that some products that contain corn syrup are considered kosher for Passover; the difference seems to lie in how the syrup is manufactured.

Yeah the Kashrut (dietary law) rules are somewhat complicated, but especially for dealing with meat and dairy products in a special way so they are Kosher (i.e. they comply with the Kashrut).  But more so because they have different levels of rigour.

If you only stick to biblical rules then it's relatively simpler: The idea being that out of respect to the animal and God's creation you are supposed to slaughter it in a particular way (cut the windpipe and jugular simultaneously).  The idea that that the flesh of some animals was unclean (e.g hooved animals which don't chew cud- like a pig, also crawling animals like bugs, fish with fins but no scales...).

And certain food combinations are taboo; e.g. dairy is not consumed in combination of most types of meat because it is considered disrespectful to "boil the calf in the mother's milk."  However other combinations like Lox on a bagel (salmon over cream cheese) are OK - presumably because fish can't yield milk...

The reason Christians don't follow the Kashrut is because the Book of Leviticus (where you find most of these laws) is actually superseded by the New Covenant (Relative to the Eucharist or Last Supper, i.e. Jesus' instructions and message in the Last Supper are a "New Covenant" with God).
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 06:29:12 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
creagmor
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« Reply #668 on: May 23, 2014, 05:17:44 am »

haven't taken the time to read all of the above, but has anyone mentioned Tabasco ? founded in 1868. I doubt that they are still using the original bottles, but at least one reason they are as so small, is because they started shortly after the Civil War and all that were available were perfume bottles. Leastwise that's what I heard on a TV program many summers a go.

Respectfully submitted
Ian S.

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« Reply #669 on: May 23, 2014, 09:07:40 am »

creagmor - We have a tabasco mfr but its a good suggestion - Lets have some South African brands as you seem to be closest, most will be old British brands but there may be one or two still on the shelves dating back a while, check the dates of Old Ma Balls Chutney or Provita biscuits (probably both 1930s-50s) but there might be something else peculiar to SA left over from the colonial days still extant.
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creagmor
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« Reply #670 on: May 23, 2014, 11:53:39 am »

At the moment the only things that come to mind is Bovril (which has already been mentioned), and Marmite (which might not have been). It was started in the UK in 1902.

While I am presently living in SA I lived in Southern CA for 65+ years and have not been here long enough to be sufficiently familiar with the brands. Will be glad to have a look around however.

BTW, off on a tangent but, as you can no doubt guess, we have McDonald's, Burger King, and KFC here from the US and Wimpey's - and possibly others - from the UK. If Wimpey's had been in the US I doubt that Mickey D's would have ever gotten off the ground, It's my favourite restaurant chain here. Not fancy but good food.  

For those in the US: Wimpey's is as nice as most Denny's I've been in but the menu is a bit more limited.
      
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 11:59:31 am by creagmor » Logged
RJBowman
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« Reply #671 on: May 23, 2014, 02:52:38 pm »

If Wimpey's had been in the US I doubt that Mickey D's would have ever gotten off the ground, It's my favourite restaurant chain here. Not fancy but good food.

McDonalds was originally a drive-in chain; a different concept from its final form, which would have distinguished it from Wimpy's if they had gone head-to-head in America. McDonalds usurped White Castle, a well-established America hamburger chain that pre-dated Wimpy's by a few years. McDonald's was just a very strong competitor.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #672 on: May 23, 2014, 03:00:30 pm »

Isn't this thread meant to be about food?  Grin
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #673 on: May 23, 2014, 04:41:06 pm »

Isn't this thread meant to be about food?  Grin

Indeed.  This list is about food, but do note that we have, actually, discussed a fair number of restaurants, and cafés on this list (e.g. Antoine's in New Orleans, El Globo in Mexico City). Many restaurants in the UK, America and Mexico, and probably Japan as well, can easily be traced to the 19th C.  It is technical possible, if there is enough interest, to have a Victorian (for Steampunk), and even Jazz Age (for Dieselpunk), list of restaurants.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 04:55:05 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #674 on: May 23, 2014, 04:50:50 pm »

Apologies for the sarcasm. I suppose a Mcdonalds does approximate to food.
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