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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 160001 times)
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1400 on: January 16, 2019, 11:28:46 pm »



It's slighty late, by 3 yrs though.  Embarrassed
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 11:30:27 pm by Mercury Wells » Logged

Oh...my old war wound? I got that at The Battle of Dorking. Very nasty affair that was, I can tell you.

The Ministry of Tea respectfully advises you to drink one cup of tea day...for that +5 Moral Fibre stat.
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« Reply #1401 on: January 17, 2019, 12:06:22 am »



This is STEAMPUNK! We can have Mary Shelley team up with Nikola Tesla! Three years should not be an obstacle!
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« Reply #1402 on: January 17, 2019, 12:31:09 am »

As I said. It'll do. It's in.
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« Reply #1403 on: January 17, 2019, 01:20:30 am »

US list Palmer's Candies Est. 1878 (I was looking for Palmer's Sugar)
&
UK/Empire list Lyons Coffee 1904


Thank you Mr. Wells! It is always a pleasant surprise to see those brands still coming out of the woodwork. I wonder how many more will be hidden out there?
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Mercury Wells
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I insiste that you do call me WELLS. :)


« Reply #1404 on: January 17, 2019, 01:30:59 am »

US list Palmer's Candies Est. 1878 (I was looking for Palmer's Sugar)
&
UK/Empire list Lyons Coffee 1904


Thank you Mr. Wells! It is always a pleasant surprise to see those brands still coming out of the woodwork. I wonder how many more will be hidden out there?


I don't know, but it would be great to get a hard copy of the histories of these Coys. listed in this tread.
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« Reply #1405 on: January 17, 2019, 01:37:12 am »

US list Palmer's Candies Est. 1878 (I was looking for Palmer's Sugar)
&
UK/Empire list Lyons Coffee 1904


Thank you Mr. Wells! It is always a pleasant surprise to see those brands still coming out of the woodwork. I wonder how many more will be hidden out there?


I don't know, but it would be great to get a hard copy of the histories of these Coys. listed in this tread.


Palmer Candy have a nice history web page. I'll have to take a closer look into it after work (it's still about 6pm on this side of the hemisphere)
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« Reply #1406 on: January 17, 2019, 08:41:08 am »

Palmers is famous for cheap Easter an Christmas chocolates that taste of cocoa powder and confectioners sugar. They did make one candy that I liked, Minty Bells,  which were just the same cheap chocolate flavored with mint extract.
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« Reply #1407 on: February 20, 2019, 02:08:46 am »

I have a second "Cafe Du Monde" type of situation here. As you recall, for my lists I have a rule whereby an establishment which started as a restaurant, tavern, or cafe which is still extant today and which has begun selling its products in supermarkets under their own brand name can eneter the lists. Such was the case of Cafe du Monde in New Orleans.

Now, I have the same situation for a cafe in the port city of Veracruz in the State of Veracruz in Mexico. The cafe originally named "Cafe de la Parroquia" (Parish Cafe) has been operating continuously since 1808, two years before Mexico declared independence from Spain. The establishement, though perhaps not the original building, is now packaging their coffee for domestic sale, and export to the United States. Apparently the coffee industry is well regarded in the coastal regions of the Gulf of Mexico from Varacruz all the way to the Yucatan Peninsula (I did know that from when I was a child, but there are a lot of gems off the beaen path, hidden from tourists).

Gran Café de La Parroquia Coffee (Coffee house founded 1808, Port of Veracruz, New Spain (Today City of Veracruz, State of Veracruz, Mexico), today sells packaged coffee domestically and for export, with several outlets in the East Coast of Mexico)

(This article is not very complete)
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Café_de_La_Parroquia

(Main website)
http://laparroquia.com/tienda/

(History)
http://laparroquia.com/tienda/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=4

The history is bit complex, because Veracruz was a very important port in New Spain, and later Mexico, and the Cafe witnessed many foreign invasions, such as during the Mexican Independence War (1810-21), the First French Intervention in the 1830s  the Mexican American War in the 1840s, the 2nd French Intervention in the 1860s, as well as the second American invasion of Veracruz in 1914, during Mexico's Civil War (Revolucion) of 1910. So I will complete this post later when I get back home...

As a note and giving credit where credit is due, I was made aware of this place by the YouTube channels from that young couple from Houston, Greg and Hillary Kennon (@KineticKennons) and Justin Perm's family (@los_Perms) when they had a reunion of sorts last week in Veracruz, where Justin Perm lived in his youth and learned Spanish.

First Impressions of Veracruz, Mexico
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 01:15:00 am by von Corax » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1408 on: February 22, 2019, 07:05:13 am »

Lapponia (Berry Liqueurs) est 1867.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1409 on: February 22, 2019, 03:55:56 pm »

Uh-oh... CNN:"[KraftHeinz] wrote down the value of its Kraft and Oscar Mayer brands by $15 billion, posted a $12.6 billion loss, cut its dividend by 36% and announced its accounting practices are under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission.  Sad  Kraft Heinz (KHC) stock plunged as much as 20% in after-hours trading.

It looks like a case of corporate greed combined with overly tight profit margins and possibly effects of trade wars (metals for packaging). Take the well established US-founded Heinz company (listed on the Victorian list) being bought by Kraft (Edwardian Era company), another giant, and then the savings don't materialize instead sinking the pair down like a boat with a hole. Two brands have disappeared and the Canadian arm as well as a result from the sketchy merger. Let's hope the British arm of Heinz doesn't get affected as well.

CNN: "Customers weren't the problem: Sales were up about 1% in the fourth quarter. Instead, Kraft Heinz CEO Bernardo Hees blamed the company's operations. Higher-than-expected manufacturing and logistics costs plagued Kraft Heinz. The company anticipated savings from its 2015 merger would continue to help lower costs, but those efficiencies dried up.

'We are overly optimistic on delivering savings that did not materialize by year-end," Hees said on a conference call with investors Thursday. "For that, we take full responsibility. And we have taken steps to ensure this does not happen again by planning process, procedures and organization structure.'

The prices of many commodities that food companies use are rising, such as agricultural products and materials like aluminum and pulp for packaging. Transportation costs have also added pressure on food companies, in part because of a shortage of truckers in the United States.

Kraft Heinz and other food companies have faced pressure from lower food prices and retailers like Amazon (AMZN), Walmart (WMT) and Costco (COST).
The company had been praised for its supply chain management after merging Kraft with Heinz. But rapidly rising costs pinched profits to such an extent that the company's earnings were about $1 billion below its own expectations. That forced it to write down two of its most recognizable brands as well as the company's Canadian business."


https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/21/investing/kraft-heinz-sec-investigation/index.html

« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 04:11:59 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Banfili
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« Reply #1410 on: February 23, 2019, 12:18:05 am »

Uh-oh... CNN:"[KraftHeinz] wrote down the value of its Kraft and Oscar Mayer brands by $15 billion, posted a $12.6 billion loss, cut its dividend by 36% and announced its accounting practices are under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission.  Sad  Kraft Heinz (KHC) stock plunged as much as 20% in after-hours trading.


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.
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Mercury Wells
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I insiste that you do call me WELLS. :)


« Reply #1411 on: February 23, 2019, 12:38:46 am »

Uh-oh... CNN:"[KraftHeinz] wrote down the value of its Kraft and Oscar Mayer brands by $15 billion, posted a $12.6 billion loss, cut its dividend by 36% and announced its accounting practices are under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission.  Sad  Kraft Heinz (KHC) stock plunged as much as 20% in after-hours trading.


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.

If kraft does go under, I bet that the Chinese will try to buy kraft.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1412 on: February 23, 2019, 02:00:03 am »

Uh-oh... CNN:"[KraftHeinz] wrote down the value of its Kraft and Oscar Mayer brands by $15 billion, posted a $12.6 billion loss, cut its dividend by 36% and announced its accounting practices are under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission.  Sad  Kraft Heinz (KHC) stock plunged as much as 20% in after-hours trading.


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.

*snip*


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.

If kraft does go under, I bet that the Chinese will try to buy kraft.

I don't think it'll get to that point, but they can't blame Costco and Walmart either. Mayhaps they can blame local producers... I would hope they would dissolve the partneship and return the brands as they were. They were doing much better individually. I think they tried to combine transportation and distribution costs, and it blew up in their faces in a very short period of time. The brands are too valuable to shut down. They're more likely to be sold to other food giants.

To begin with, both Costco and Walmart sell Heinz products! When you walk in the store, Walmart do a good job of marketing the Kraft products - that is a solid brand in the US.

Incidentally, the "True Value" store brand at Walmart is garbage, in contrast to local super store brands which often are of better quality. Surprisingly Walmart is NOT the cheapest grocery store. The local giant HEB super chain bests prices by a good 10-20% over Walmart at a much higher level of quality for inhouse brands (and they also sell Heinz and Kraft as well). The reason is that HEB is a local company with contracts from local growers and factories that date back over 100 years. Walmart has to transport all their food by truck/lorry from various parts of the country. People actively avoid the Walmart brand and purchase Kraft instead, so you end up paying more at Walmart. Same rule applies for Heinz. There is hardly a good substitute for it - you can't blame Walmart this time.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 02:10:38 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Mercury Wells
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I insiste that you do call me WELLS. :)


« Reply #1413 on: February 23, 2019, 03:44:37 am »

Uh-oh... CNN:"[KraftHeinz] wrote down the value of its Kraft and Oscar Mayer brands by $15 billion, posted a $12.6 billion loss, cut its dividend by 36% and announced its accounting practices are under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission.  Sad  Kraft Heinz (KHC) stock plunged as much as 20% in after-hours trading.


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.

*snip*


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.

If kraft does go under, I bet that the Chinese will try to buy kraft.

I don't think it'll get to that point, but they can't blame Costco and Walmart either. Mayhaps they can blame local producers... I would hope they would dissolve the partneship and return the brands as they were. They were doing much better individually. I think they tried to combine transportation and distribution costs, and it blew up in their faces in a very short period of time. The brands are too valuable to shut down. They're more likely to be sold to other food giants.

To begin with, both Costco and Walmart sell Heinz products! When you walk in the store, Walmart do a good job of marketing the Kraft products - that is a solid brand in the US.

Incidentally, the "True Value" store brand at Walmart is garbage, in contrast to local super store brands which often are of better quality. Surprisingly Walmart is NOT the cheapest grocery store. The local giant HEB super chain bests prices by a good 10-20% over Walmart at a much higher level of quality for inhouse brands (and they also sell Heinz and Kraft as well). The reason is that HEB is a local company with contracts from local growers and factories that date back over 100 years. Walmart has to transport all their food by truck/lorry from various parts of the country. People actively avoid the Walmart brand and purchase Kraft instead, so you end up paying more at Walmart. Same rule applies for Heinz. There is hardly a good substitute for it - you can't blame Walmart this time.

Uh-oh... CNN:"[KraftHeinz] wrote down the value of its Kraft and Oscar Mayer brands by $15 billion, posted a $12.6 billion loss, cut its dividend by 36% and announced its accounting practices are under investigation by the Securities and Exchange Commission.  Sad  Kraft Heinz (KHC) stock plunged as much as 20% in after-hours trading.


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.

*snip*


I sincerely hope that this will not also sink Cadbury's, which has also suffered the indignation of takeover by Kraft, nor that great Aussie invention, Vegemite, also taken over by Kraft.

If kraft does go under, I bet that the Chinese will try to buy kraft.

I don't think it'll get to that point, but they can't blame Costco and Walmart either. Mayhaps they can blame local producers... I would hope they would dissolve the partneship and return the brands as they were. They were doing much better individually. I think they tried to combine transportation and distribution costs, and it blew up in their faces in a very short period of time. The brands are too valuable to shut down. They're more likely to be sold to other food giants.

To begin with, both Costco and Walmart sell Heinz products! When you walk in the store, Walmart do a good job of marketing the Kraft products - that is a solid brand in the US.

Incidentally, the "True Value" store brand at Walmart is garbage, in contrast to local super store brands which often are of better quality. Surprisingly Walmart is NOT the cheapest grocery store. The local giant HEB super chain bests prices by a good 10-20% over Walmart at a much higher level of quality for inhouse brands (and they also sell Heinz and Kraft as well). The reason is that HEB is a local company with contracts from local growers and factories that date back over 100 years. Walmart has to transport all their food by truck/lorry from various parts of the country. People actively avoid the Walmart brand and purchase Kraft instead, so you end up paying more at Walmart. Same rule applies for Heinz. There is hardly a good substitute for it - you can't blame Walmart this time.

Sainsburys & Asda (now owned by Walmart) were recently going to merge. Though that now seems to be unlikely(?).

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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1414 on: February 23, 2019, 07:07:34 am »

*snip
Sainsburys & Asda (now owned by Walmart) were recently going to merge. Though that now seems to be unlikely(?).

Perhaps fellow brassgogglers from the UK can answer that. Over here, thankfully, Walmart operates completely independent from dedicated food supermarket chains. They have, however (now that is of interest to me) bought a number of supermarket chains in Mexico outright. Not happy about that, and reviews on it by @kinetickennons in the past 2.5 years support that finding. The quality of the product is definitely low, even for brand names, and my impression is they'll cut "deals" with brand names for 2nd rate lots of goods (including canned tuna, as I found out). Another practice is to have exclusive deals whereby only certain packages or models of something (e.g branded food, electronics, computers) can be sold at Walmart.  Recently, India put a stop to that practice demanding that Walmart only sell products that competitors can carry.
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« Reply #1415 on: February 23, 2019, 01:42:30 pm »

Let's get back on track - Victorian Food Brands.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1416 on: February 23, 2019, 04:35:52 pm »

Let's get back on track - Victorian Food Brands.

The conversation is justified. Heinz is Victorian. Kraft missed it by a couple of years. The discussion on the news documents the evolution of the brand and the possible demise of an iconic brand.

But we'll move on. Any more details on Lapponia?
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1417 on: February 23, 2019, 11:13:26 pm »

Lapponia is an area in Finland, not the actual name of the liqueur (as I thought  Embarrassed ). Lakka.

Hopefully someone, who has more knowledge will be along soon.
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RJBowman
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« Reply #1418 on: February 23, 2019, 11:40:11 pm »

https://abcnews.go.com/International/fizzing-spanish-firm-inspired-coke/story?id=19918738

Kola Coca, a Spanish Liquor. Invented in the 19th century; won an contest for innovation in Philadelphia in 1885, got in the newspapers, and enjoyed some limited U.S. distribution. Next year, Coca Cola was invented in Atlanta.

The liquor is still being manufactured. Though it is not mentioned in the article, I assume that the modern formula, like that of it's American knockoff, no longer contains cocaine.
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« Reply #1419 on: February 25, 2019, 09:18:57 pm »

https://abcnews.go.com/International/fizzing-spanish-firm-inspired-coke/story?id=19918738

Kola Coca, a Spanish Liquor. Invented in the 19th century; won an contest for innovation in Philadelphia in 1885, got in the newspapers, and enjoyed some limited U.S. distribution. Next year, Coca Cola was invented in Atlanta.

The liquor is still being manufactured. Though it is not mentioned in the article, I assume that the modern formula, like that of it's American knockoff, no longer contains cocaine.

It is a question mark, whether the French Vin Mariani was the original inspiration for Pemberton's coca wine, or the Spanish Cola Koka, since both emerge on the same year (1885). However, the rights for this Spanish drink were bought by Coca-Cola in 1953.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola
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« Reply #1420 on: February 25, 2019, 09:20:01 pm »

Lapponia is an area in Finland, not the actual name of the liqueur (as I thought  Embarrassed ). Lakka.

Hopefully someone, who has more knowledge will be along soon.

I've actually heard about it, but memory fails me, when or where.
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1421 on: March 08, 2019, 06:35:05 pm »

RE:- Tetley Tea. It can be entered into the US list.

According to Let's Look Again

Quote
The firm established a sales agency in New York from 1888. (Joseph Tetley & Sons was incorporated as public company in 1907, and as a private company a year later. By this time the company was a leading London wholesale tea dealer. By 1913 the American business had substantially expanded, and a subsidiary company was established in New York.)


& from Tetley US
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« Reply #1422 on: March 08, 2019, 06:53:17 pm »

It is a question mark, whether the French Vin Mariani was the original inspiration for Pemberton's coca wine, or the Spanish Cola Koka, since both emerge on the same year (1885). However, the rights for this Spanish drink were bought by Coca-Cola in 1953.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola

Pemberton's coca wine was probably not the basis for Coca Cola; it was a different product, containing alcohol, with a very different flavor. It may be that the Atlanta based manufacturer simply knocked off two different coca-based European drinks, and the Cola-Koka knockoff was the more enduring of the two.
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« Reply #1423 on: March 09, 2019, 01:13:37 am »

It is a question mark, whether the French Vin Mariani was the original inspiration for Pemberton's coca wine, or the Spanish Cola Koka, since both emerge on the same year (1885). However, the rights for this Spanish drink were bought by Coca-Cola in 1953.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coca-Cola

Pemberton's coca wine was probably not the basis for Coca Cola; it was a different product, containing alcohol, with a very different flavor. It may be that the Atlanta based manufacturer simply knocked off two different coca-based European drinks, and the Cola-Koka knockoff was the more enduring of the two.

I don't think it was other manufacturers. It was Pemberton himself copycatting all the formulas. Perhaps Pemberton did not base Coca Cola on his Coca Wine, but according to the linked Wiki article above, Pemberton did develop the non-alcoholic Coca Cola "formula" first in 1886 before marketing it to others (as a knock off of Kola Coka, -quite possibly- as you say), which was then sold through drugstores:

Quote
In 1886, when Atlanta and Fulton County passed prohibition legislation, Pemberton responded by developing Coca-Cola, a nonalcoholic version of Pemberton's French Wine Coca.[14] The first sales were at Jacob's Pharmacy in Atlanta, Georgia, on May 8, 1886,[15] where it initially sold for five cents a glass.[16] Drugstore soda fountains were popular in the United States at the time due to the belief that carbonated water was good for the health,[17] and Pemberton's new drink was marketed and sold as a patent medicine, Pemberton claiming it a cure for many diseases, including morphine addiction, indigestion, nerve disorders, headaches, and impotence. Pemberton ran the first advertisement for the beverage on May 29 of the same year in the Atlanta Journal.

Is there a way we can get out hands on some of that Spanish "Kola Coca" or its formula?  Grin

And the article reads this on the people making and marketing the "formula":

Quote
By 1888, three versions of Coca-Cola – sold by three separate businesses – were on the market. A co-partnership had been formed on January 14, 1888 between Pemberton and four Atlanta businessmen: J.C. Mayfield, A.O. Murphey, C.O. Mullahy, and E.H. Bloodworth. Not codified by any signed document, a verbal statement given by Asa Candler years later asserted under testimony that he had acquired a stake in Pemberton's company as early as 1887.[19] John Pemberton declared that the name "Coca-Cola" belonged to his son, Charley, but the other two manufacturers could continue to use the formula

Charley Pemberton's record of control over the "Coca-Cola" name was the underlying factor that allowed for him to participate as a major shareholder in the March 1888 Coca-Cola Company incorporation filing made in his father's place.[21] Charley's exclusive control over the "Coca-Cola" name became a continual thorn in Asa Candler's side. Candler's oldest son, Charles Howard Candler, authored a book in 1950 published by Emory University. In this definitive biography about his father, Candler specifically states: "..., on April 14, 1888, the young druggist Asa Griggs Candler purchased a one-third interest in the formula of an almost completely unknown proprietary elixir known as Coca-Cola."[22]

The deal was actually between John Pemberton's son Charley and Walker, Candler & Co. – with John Pemberton acting as cosigner for his son. For $50 down and $500 in 30 days, Walker, Candler & Co. obtained all of the one-third interest in the Coca-Cola Company that Charley held, all while Charley still held on to the name. After the April 14 deal, on April 17, 1888, one-half of the Walker/Dozier interest shares were acquired by Candler for an additional $750

An 1890s advertisement showing model Hilda Clark
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 01:37:28 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1424 on: March 09, 2019, 01:16:15 am »

RE:- Tetley Tea. It can be entered into the US list.

According to Let's Look Again

Quote
The firm established a sales agency in New York from 1888. (Joseph Tetley & Sons was incorporated as public company in 1907, and as a private company a year later. By this time the company was a leading London wholesale tea dealer. By 1913 the American business had substantially expanded, and a subsidiary company was established in New York.)


& from Tetley US



Thank you Mr. Wells! I definitely don't remember adding that one to the list, having dismissed it as only Brit. But is quite obvious that some imported products date further back in time than others, and tea would most definitely be one of them.

https://www.tetleyusa.com/tetley-story (click on timeline photo album). I didn't know that Iced Tea was introduced in the 1904 St. Louis World Fair (note that the heat wave in America that year prompted that invention), or that a New York merchant accidentally invented the tea bag (intended originally as sample bags), an idea which was borught back to the UK by Tetley in 1939!
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 01:51:11 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
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