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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 163611 times)
RJBowman
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« Reply #1375 on: December 30, 2018, 06:49:12 pm »

"Gorton’s the very first to develop a frozen convenience food" - so proud to say that in their first explanatory sentence... they are aiming low.

They invented fish sticks. Show some respect.
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morozow
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« Reply #1376 on: December 30, 2018, 08:17:06 pm »

I have a question about on the topic.

There is a brand, "Crosse & Blackwell" now it belongs to  The J.M. Smucker Company.

At the end of the 19th century they produced "Cabul Sauce" also "Mogul Sauce".

Is there now these sauces and what is their recipe. Suddenly who knows.
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« Reply #1377 on: December 30, 2018, 09:57:17 pm »

There is a brand, "Crosse & Blackwell" now it belongs to  The J.M. Smucker Company.
At the end of the 19th century they produced "Cabul Sauce" also "Mogul Sauce".
Is there now these sauces and what is their recipe. Suddenly who knows.

Cabul Sauce:
6 Tables of Ghî ( clarified butter originating from the Indian subcontinent )
1 medium onion, finely chopped
2 garlic tips, finely chopped
3 medium tomatoes, coarsely chopped
3 fresh green chilis, finely chopped
1 tsp crushed cumin seeds
1/2 tsp fennel seeds, ground
1/2 cup (225 gr) yogurt, beaten

Fry the onion in the ghi until coloring. Add the other ingredients, ending with the yogurt. Homogenize and cook for about 30 minutes over medium heat, stirring frequently. Do not hesitate to add a trickle of water if the mixture seems to hang on the bottom of the pan or tends to dry out too much.

mogul sauce, Definition: a sauce similar to Worcestershire sauce, manufactured by John Burgess & Son and Crosse & Blackwell; used for meat.

Worcestershire contains vinegar, tamarind, anchovy paste, onions and spices. Some brands contain soy.
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« Reply #1378 on: December 30, 2018, 10:28:21 pm »


I'm not sure if I already had that brand listed. I'll take a look... 1849 is fairly early for a current food brand in the US. I've certainly seen the brand at the Super. Not something I regularly purchase though...  They have a yellow raincoat wearing bearded fisherman as a logo.
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1379 on: December 31, 2018, 12:25:31 am »


I'm not sure if I already had that brand listed. I'll take a look... 1849 is fairly early for a current food brand in the US. I've certainly seen the brand at the Super. Not something I regularly purchase though...  They have a yellow raincoat wearing bearded fisherman as a logo.

I did use the search option* to look for Gorton's (no results) before I posted.


*As I always do.
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« Reply #1380 on: December 31, 2018, 01:04:25 am »

There is a brand, "Crosse & Blackwell" now it belongs to  The J.M. Smucker Company.
At the end of the 19th century they produced "Cabul Sauce" also "Mogul Sauce".
Is there now these sauces and what is their recipe. Suddenly who knows.

Cabul Sauce:
6 Tables of Ghî ( clarified butter originating from the Indian subcontinent )
1 medium onion, finely chopped
2 garlic tips, finely chopped
3 medium tomatoes, coarsely chopped
3 fresh green chilis, finely chopped
1 tsp crushed cumin seeds
1/2 tsp fennel seeds, ground
1/2 cup (225 gr) yogurt, beaten

Fry the onion in the ghi until coloring. Add the other ingredients, ending with the yogurt. Homogenize and cook for about 30 minutes over medium heat, stirring frequently. Do not hesitate to add a trickle of water if the mixture seems to hang on the bottom of the pan or tends to dry out too much.

mogul sauce, Definition: a sauce similar to Worcestershire sauce, manufactured by John Burgess & Son and Crosse & Blackwell; used for meat.

Worcestershire contains vinegar, tamarind, anchovy paste, onions and spices. Some brands contain soy.

Thank you!  Do I understand correctly that this recipe is the basis of "industrial" sauce of the company - "Crosse & Blackwell"?

Where did you get it from?

We now have new Year's "battles"on the Internet. One of the traditional new year's dishes is Olivier salad. You have as far as I know he appears as the Russian salad.

Now he is done in "Soviet" execution. But initially it was invented in the 19th century. And the ingredients were very different.

And that's before the new year traditionally begin to find out. The or not the salad. And what is the recipe correct. And how to make it.

In the kind of the oldest and "true" recipe, appears, Cabul Sauce. And here is about him, too, disputes, what he "the true."

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« Reply #1381 on: December 31, 2018, 02:22:29 am »

"Gorton’s the very first to develop a frozen convenience food" - so proud to say that in their first explanatory sentence... they are aiming low.
Maybe low by today's standards, but in 1849 they owned the target. And the shooting range. And all the ammo.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1382 on: December 31, 2018, 03:59:15 am »


I'm not sure if I already had that brand listed. I'll take a look... 1849 is fairly early for a current food brand in the US. I've certainly seen the brand at the Super. Not something I regularly purchase though...  They have a yellow raincoat wearing bearded fisherman as a logo.

I did use the search option* to look for Gorton's (no results) before I posted.


*As I always do.

Looks like you're right, until page 45 or July of last year Gorton's had not been added. Maybe I saw it and forgot to add it... The last updated list on BG is on page 41 (2016), but I have a July 2017 list in my computer which corresponds to page 44 on this thread. I'll scour the remaining pages, but we'll add Gorton's as well today.

Thank you , Mr. Wells, the brand name will begin processing for the list.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 04:48:11 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1383 on: December 31, 2018, 04:04:01 am »

"Gorton’s the very first to develop a frozen convenience food" - so proud to say that in their first explanatory sentence... they are aiming low.

They invented fish sticks. Show some respect.

"Gorton’s the very first to develop a frozen convenience food" - so proud to say that in their first explanatory sentence... they are aiming low.
Maybe low by today's standards, but in 1849 they owned the target. And the shooting range. And all the ammo.

And they still have a very large and successful business, by what I can see at my super. I'm not big on frozen fish products, but can't ignore the brand. I guess we'll have fish sticks as well, though I need to research exactly what their main product was prior to WWI and their history. Whatever they carried still available today, makes it to the menu.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 04:26:38 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1384 on: December 31, 2018, 04:26:47 am »

The full name is Gorton's of Gloucester, and it traces it roots back to an American Colonial Era fishery called John Pew and Sons. William, son of John Pew returned from the French and Indian Wars and picked up fishing again in Gloucester, Massachussetts in 1755. The commercial company emerged in 1849, 94 years after starting sales, so you can take your pick of starting dates. If you go by raw or salted fish, then Gorton's could technically be on the British list dating to 1755 as well! Otherwise the brand is American starting in 1849. The Colonial Era origin makes it the oldest brand in the US list I think. Otherwise it's bested by King Arthur Flour (1790).

The first frozen product was Gorton's Fish Cakes and dates to 1899. Earlier preserved products were salted and sold in barrels. This makes Gorton's Fish cakes or patties an original Victorian product still sold today (even if the descriptive name on the package and presentation has changed to "fish sticks" or "Bites," it's still the same product. The closest original presentation will probably be today's round crab cakes. Seems they mostly carry breaded un-minced fish fillets in their line, besides the fish sticks (1950s?) and crab cakes).

The brand is officially added to the list:

https://www.gortons.com/


Gorton's Frozen Fish Cakes (A derivative of a 1755 American British colonial fishery named John Pew & Sons, in Gloucester Massachusetts, Gorton-Pew Fisheries was founded by the Pew family in 1849 and renamed Gorton's of Gloucester in 1957 and The Gorton Corp. in  1965. First frozen product was fish cakes sold in 1899. Ownership passed to General Mills (1968) to Unilever (1995) and since 2001 is owned by the Japanese firm Nippon Suisan Kaisha, Ltd.)


Gorton's of Gloucester building, circa 1925


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorton%27s_of_Gloucester
Quote
History
The company traces its roots to a fishery called John Pew & Sons. William Pew, son of John Pew, picked up fishing after serving as a Colonial soldier in the French and Indian War. While most people moved West after the war, Pew turned eastward and arrived in Gloucester, Massachusetts, in 1755. The father-and-son fishery business emerged as an official commercial company, John Pew & Sons, in 1849.

When nearby Rockport's chief industry, the Annisquam Cotton Mill, burned down, Slade Gorton, the mill's superintendent, was out of a job. At his wife's urging, he began a fishing business in 1874 known as Slade Gorton & Company, and began to pack and sell salt codfish and mackerel in small kegs. This company was the first to package salt-dried fish in barrels. In 1899, the company patented the "Original Gorton Fish Cake". In 1905, the Slade Gorton Company adopted the fisherman at the helm of a schooner (the "Man at the Wheel") as the company trademark. Today, he is known as the Gorton's Fisherman.

In 1906, Slade Gorton & Company, John Pew & Sons, and two other Gloucester fisheries merged into the Gorton-Pew Fisheries. They made Gorton's codfish cakes a household name in New England.

The company went into the fish-freezing business in the early 1930s. In 1949, Gorton-Pew made headlines when it drove the first refrigerator trailer truck shipment of frozen fish from Gloucester to San Francisco—a trip that took eight days. In 1953, the company was the first to introduce a frozen ready-to-cook fish stick, which won the Parents magazine Seal of Approval.

In 1957, Gorton-Pew Fisheries name was changed to Gorton's of Gloucester; in 1965, it became The Gorton Corporation, and it is now known as Gorton's. In 1968, Gorton's merged with General Mills, Inc., as a wholly owned subsidiary.

In May 1995, Unilever bought Gorton's from General Mills. In August 2001, Unilever sold Gorton's and BlueWater Seafoods to Nippon Suisan (USA), Inc., a subsidiary of Nippon Suisan Kaisha, Ltd., for $175 million in cash.

More history with photos here from 1906:
https://www.massmoments.org/moment-details/gloucester-fish-companies-merge.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 2018, 05:10:36 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1385 on: December 31, 2018, 06:02:00 am »

For the UK/Empire list:- Warrnambool Cheese and Butter. Est. 1888
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1386 on: December 31, 2018, 05:30:32 pm »



From happy cows downunder...
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Banfili
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« Reply #1387 on: January 01, 2019, 02:40:38 am »

Nice coastal city, Warnambool, on the Great Ocean Road, in Victoria, Australia. Its main beach, the sandy Bathing Beach, runs in front of vast Lake Pertobe Adventure Park. The nearby Flagstaff Hill Maritime Village explores the area's seafaring history through a large shipwreck collection. Thunder Point Coastal Reserve, with its rocky ocean scenery, encompasses Shelly Beach. East is Logans Beach Whale Watching Platform.
Lots for cows to be contented about! Happy cows, excellent milk, making excellent cheese & butter!
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1388 on: January 01, 2019, 02:36:03 pm »

I am quite content to do nothing and simply incorporate/annexe all the recent food items from the colonies into the home and empire list.  They will do well there.

With regard to the Cabul Sauce, I have always been a regular eater of Crosse & Blackwell sauces but have never come across Cabul Sauce nor anything quite like it. I doubt it was a regular UK brand and may have been made specifically for a certain market. Seems unlikely that it would be available in Soviet Russia so we have to assume that it was available before? The recipe sounds pungent.

With regard to Worcester sauce, there exists the possibility that this fabulous sauce was initially created in my own house... given that it was once the family home of Mr. Perrin of "Lea and Perrin".

Did I not tell this story already? IF you'd like to hear it just say.
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morozow
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« Reply #1389 on: January 01, 2019, 02:55:46 pm »

With regard to the Cabul Sauce, I have always been a regular eater of Crosse & Blackwell sauces but have never come across Cabul Sauce nor anything quite like it. I doubt it was a regular UK brand and may have been made specifically for a certain market. Seems unlikely that it would be available in Soviet Russia so we have to assume that it was available before? The recipe sounds pungent.

Yes, Yes, Yes. Of course the Kabul sauce from a recipe of the 19th century.  And studies indicate, judging by all, the brand "Crosse & Blackwell" and get their canned.

Now in salad use simple Soviet mayonnaise.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1390 on: January 01, 2019, 03:23:15 pm »

Well, I suggest you buy a bottle of Cross and Blackwell mayonnaise and fill it with a concoction made from the recipe provided.



You can buy old pots and jars on ebay:

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/CROSSE-BLACKWELL-PASTE-ADVERTISING-POT-LONDON-/254038512045?hash=item3b25e011ad



You can buy unopened bottles of the curry sauce from the same period:

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Antique-CROSSE-BLACK-Pure-Currie-Powder-bottle-pre-1900-NEVER-OPENED-/112738865161?hash=item1a3fc29009






« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 03:37:04 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
Sorontar
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« Reply #1391 on: January 02, 2019, 04:31:50 am »


Not unless they like being sold off to Saputo...
Interestingly, there is a cheese  museum across the road. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much of the following:
 - cheese
 - museum
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1392 on: January 04, 2019, 02:15:52 am »

Not a food item, but hopefully interesting?...

Monosodium glutamate/MSG

Quote
It was first prepared in 1908 by Japanese biochemist Kikunae Ikeda, who was trying to isolate and duplicate the savory taste of kombu, an edible seaweed used as a base for many Japanese soups.
&
Glutamic acid was discovered and identified in 1866 by the German chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen, who treated wheat gluten (for which it was named) with sulphuric acid.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1393 on: January 04, 2019, 02:51:31 am »

Not a food item, but hopefully interesting?...

Monosodium glutamate/MSG

Quote
It was first prepared in 1908 by Japanese biochemist Kikunae Ikeda, who was trying to isolate and duplicate the savory taste of kombu, an edible seaweed used as a base for many Japanese soups.
&
Glutamic acid was discovered and identified in 1866 by the German chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen, who treated wheat gluten (for which it was named) with sulphuric acid.

Alright. I had to delete my first response - I jumped to conclusions. Wiki does mention ONE specific brand. Given the historical period (1909), it is unlikely it would have made it in time for the Western consumers as an import. Mexico's Porfiriato period ends in 1910. UK's Victorian Era in 1903. This is a Japanese branded ingredient first by the Suzuki Brothers, It was available during the Meiji period (ending in 1912), under the brand name "Aji-no-moto" currently sold in Japan...

This goes to the Japanese list an an *ingredient* brand
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« Reply #1394 on: January 04, 2019, 09:32:19 pm »

So Ajinomoto's Monosodium Glutamate makes it to the Japanese list for 2 reasons: 1. It is a commonly available ingredient sold under its original 1908 name in Japan. 2. The "Stempunk Period" in Japan ends at a later date, due to the delayed introduction of the Industrial Revolution, similar to the situation in Mexico and Russia. The end of the Meiji Era in 1912 is considered the "end" of Japan's Steampunk Period.

Now, because Japan's Steampunk Period ends after all other geographic locations, save Russia, it is unlikely that the product would have been imported into any other country before their individual Stempunk periods ended (I seriously doubt it would have made it into Mexico by 1910 or Russia by 1917. Also see info on patents, below). Also, both Mexico between 1910 and 1920, and Russia after 1917 and even prior to that were experiencing tremendous upheaval. It was Revolution time. Call me crazy, but I just don't see Pancho Villa and his peasant troops putting MSG on their tacos prior to advancing against government troops  Roll Eyes  Cheesy

The company's origin is directly related to the invention of MSG by Dr. Kikunae Ikeda (1864-1936), a Professor at Tokyo Imperial University in 1907 at which point it began production at Suzuki Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd. The corporation as a business enterprise was thus opened in 1908 with the explicit purpose of marketing the product inder the name AJI-NO-MOTO. According to Wiki the current name of the corporation marketing AJI-NO-MOTO is Ajinomoto Co., Inc. a/k/a 味の素株式会社 Ajinomoto Kabushiki Gaisha, and the company produces seasonings, cooking oils, frozen foods, beverage, sweeteners, amino acids, and pharmaceuticals. Patents for producing MSG under the Ajinomoto brand were filed in Japan in 1908, France in 1909, UK in 1910, and in the United States in 1912.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajinomoto

Ajinomoto Monosodium Glutamate (Originally marketed as AJI-NO-MOTO under the Suzuki Pharmaceutical Co., Ltd., the business is currently named 味の素株式会社 Ajinomoto Kabushiki Gaisha. founded by Kikunae Ikeda in 1908 in Tokyo, Japan)



Advertising campaign by way of a marching band known as a "Chindon'ya"

Oil peinting of the Kawasaki factory ca. 1910
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 10:00:19 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #1395 on: January 05, 2019, 02:41:03 am »

M.S.G. as a food. Hmmmm. The Japanese list is welcome to it.
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #1396 on: January 05, 2019, 06:30:17 am »

M.S.G. as a food. Hmmmm. The Japanese list is welcome to it.

Well, technically a chemical seasoning or ingredient not any different than Baking Soda (a/k/a Sodium Bicarbonate) in the US list). Like it or not, the Victorians were working hard on food chemistry in the laboratory as well... Personally, don't care for the stuff

Quote

Monosodium glutamate (MSG, also known as sodium glutamate) is the sodium salt of glutamic acid, one of the most abundant naturally occurring non-essential amino acids.[2] Glutamic acid is found naturally in tomatoes, grapes, cheese, mushrooms and other foods.

Glutamic acid was discovered and identified in 1866 by the German chemist Karl Heinrich Ritthausen, who treated wheat gluten (for which it was named) with sulfuric acid.[13] Kikunae Ikeda of Tokyo Imperial University isolated glutamic acid as a taste substance in 1908 from the seaweed Laminaria japonica (kombu) by aqueous extraction and crystallization, calling its taste umami. Ikeda noticed that dashi, the Japanese broth of katsuobushi and kombu, had a unique taste not yet scientifically described (not sweet, salty, sour, or bitter).

To verify that ionized glutamate was responsible for umami, Ikeda studied the taste properties of glutamate salts: calcium, potassium, ammonium, and magnesium glutamate. All these salts elicited umami and a metallic taste due to the other minerals. Of them, sodium glutamate was the most soluble, most palatable, and easiest to crystallize.[citation needed] Ikeda called his product "monosodium glutamate", and submitted a patent to produce MSG; the Suzuki brothers began commercial production of MSG in 1909 as Aji-no-moto (味の素, "essence of taste").
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:40:39 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
RJBowman
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« Reply #1397 on: January 05, 2019, 07:03:42 pm »

M.S.G. as a food. Hmmmm. The Japanese list is welcome to it.

I used to buy it at oriental grocery stores, and add a little bit to my marinades. It has a bad reputation because it has a chemical name, but it isn't artificial, and it has no negative health effects that have ever been proven in any credible study.
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Mercury Wells
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« Reply #1398 on: January 16, 2019, 09:36:01 pm »

US list Palmer's Candies Est. 1878 (I was looking for Palmer's Sugar)
&
UK/Empire list Lyons Coffee 1904
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« Reply #1399 on: January 16, 2019, 10:12:27 pm »

UK/Empire list Lyons Coffee 1904


That'll do. Well found Mr.Wells.
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