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Author Topic: Victorian food brands still extant  (Read 203198 times)
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #100 on: March 31, 2012, 01:45:17 pm »

@von Corax - as soon as I find a brand such as your suggestion on UK shelves I will add it to the list, I need to go scour the shelves.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #101 on: March 31, 2012, 02:02:59 pm »

@HAC - The lea and perrins comes in 'foreign' and 'colonial' versions I am told, both different, slightly different wording on each implying originality for both. Those who know the difference swear the UK one has a more rounded flavour, "The UK version uses malt vinegar in the recipe whereas the US alternative swears by distilled white vinegar. This means that the British one has a slightly deeper taste, but the difference is not too noticeable."
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 02:05:18 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2012, 02:26:48 pm »

Barber's Cheddar Cheese 1833
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #103 on: March 31, 2012, 02:28:44 pm »

Matthew Walker's Christmas puddings 1899
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« Reply #104 on: March 31, 2012, 02:35:42 pm »

George Watkins Mushroom Ketchup - ~?1868
Baxters soups - 1868
Fray Bentos canned meat pies - 1899 (incidentally, Fray Bentos was bought by Baxters last year)

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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #105 on: March 31, 2012, 03:29:47 pm »

@Captain Shipton Bellinger

George Watkins Mushroom Ketchup - 1868 - we have the Geo. Watkins sauces, but that's a reminder I can eat the range if they all existed
Baxters soups - 1868 - good addition, the list needed some soup for variety
Fray Bentos canned meat pies - 1899 - I am not sure they made the tinned meat pies until later in the 20th C. but the corned beef is in the list..
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 08:10:55 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #106 on: March 31, 2012, 03:38:14 pm »

The list - updated
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 31, 2012, 03:45:47 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #107 on: March 31, 2012, 06:24:46 pm »

@J.Wilhelm, when I worked at Mars Chocolate factory there were huge iron gears turning a lot of the conveyor machinery, especially for the lines built in the 1930s. All these gears were lubricated with by-products of the brewing industry. No mineral oil was even allowed in the factory as it could contaminate the food. Marmite is a good grease. The fact that the brewers could make us eat a brewing by-product is quite amazing, don't you think?

Ha, ha!  Let's just call Marmite "The Ideal Steampunk Food.  Good for your gears and good for your body." They should pay me for advertising....
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von Corax
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« Reply #108 on: April 01, 2012, 06:00:04 am »

Mr. Wilhelm, I am surprised, nay, shocked, that you neglected to mention McIlhenny Co. of Avery Island, LA., founded in 1868, makers of TABASCO® Sauce, which (apparently) had been introduced to England by the late 1870s, and so is suited to both your and UncleBert's lists.

On this side of the 49th, we also have:
  • Crosby Molasses, of St. John, NB, founded 1879;
  • Schneider Foods (Kitchener ON), founded 1886 as J. M. Schneider Meats (now owned by Maple Leaf Foods)
  • George Weston Ltd. (Toronto ON), founded 1882, and by 1900 Canada's largest baker
  • Labatt Brewery (London ON), founded 1847 (now owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev N.V.)
  • Molson Brewery (Montreal QC), founded 1786 (Canada's 2nd-oldest company), now half owners of Molson Coors
  • Clover Leaf Seafoods (Markham ON), founded 1871 as Loggie & Company (New Westminster BC; Clover Leaf name first used 1889); one of the world's top 10 branded seafood companies; now owned by Connors Bros.
  • Connors Bros. (Blacks Harbour NB), established 1885 & incorporated 1893, producer of Brunswick brand canned sardines & herring; now owned by George Weston Ltd.
  • Windsor Salt, founded 1893 in Windsor ON
  • Redpath Sugar, Montreal QC, 1854 (now owned by American Sugar Refining Inc.)

I'm sure there are more...

TODO:
  • reformat list
  • Red Rose Tea (1894, St. John NB)
  • Alexander Keith's
  • Seagram's Distilleries
  • Carling Brewing (1878, London ON)
  • Peek Frean's biscuits, imported to Ontario ca. 1870
  • Magic baking powder, made in Canada since 1897
« Last Edit: April 05, 2012, 07:30:16 am by von Corax » Logged

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« Reply #109 on: April 01, 2012, 06:53:31 am »

@J.Wilhelm, when I worked at Mars Chocolate factory there were huge iron gears turning a lot of the conveyor machinery, especially for the lines built in the 1930s. All these gears were lubricated with by-products of the brewing industry. No mineral oil was even allowed in the factory as it could contaminate the food. Marmite is a good grease. The fact that the brewers could make us eat a brewing by-product is quite amazing, don't you think?

Ha, ha!  Let's just call Marmite "The Ideal Steampunk Food.  Good for your gears and good for your body." They should pay me for advertising....

I adore Marmite too- I think I might have died of malnutrition as a child without Marmite (I was one hell of a fussy eater).

Can we put Marmite on the list? I know the factory only opened in 1902 but it was invented before that...
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« Reply #110 on: April 01, 2012, 08:30:44 am »

@J.Wilhelm - Strangely enough Liptons Tea is one of those brands that is considered quintessentially English but has very little presence over here in the UK. My first taste of Liptons tea was in the US. Up until very recently I didn't think you could buy Liptons tea over here in the vast majority of shops, I certainly never have. Also, iced tea is purely a US invention and is quite a bizarre idea over here.


To understand iced tea (yes it took me a while to get used to it too; to me, as a child, it tasted like water runoff from the roof), you have to travel to the American South or the Southwest during the summer months -preferably in the South proper; 98 percent humidity and near the 42 C temperature mark.  It's a tad like cold soup or Gazpacho; you need to be placed in the right environment and then it makes perfect sense.

And it helps if you dress and talk like this gentleman played by Tom Hanks (just kidding):
http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi871694617/
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 08:47:36 am by J. Wilhelm » Logged
J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #111 on: April 01, 2012, 08:55:08 am »

Mr. Wilhelm, I am surprised, nay, shocked, that you neglected to mention McIlhenny Co. of Avery Island, LA., founded in 1868, makers of TABASCO® Sauce, which (apparently) had been introduced to England by the late 1870s, and so is suited to both your and UncleBert's lists.

 My sincerest apologies Mr. Corax!  The name of McIlhenny Co. will be added to the forthcoming list! (in my best southern gentry drawl)
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« Reply #112 on: April 01, 2012, 10:20:48 am »

@J.Wilhelm - Strangely enough Liptons Tea is one of those brands that is considered quintessentially English but has very little presence over here in the UK. My first taste of Liptons tea was in the US. Up until very recently I didn't think you could buy Liptons tea over here in the vast majority of shops, I certainly never have. Also, iced tea is purely a US invention and is quite a bizarre idea over here.

Sir Thomas Lipton, the Great Grocer of Scotland, humanitarian, and yachting fanatic (five failed America's Cup attempts), had 300 shops at his peak in 1888. He bought his own tea plantations in Ceylon to bypass the Mincing Lane tea wholesalers. The brand was available in Britain at the time, as cheap working class tea, mostly in Scotland and North England. It never had the "lower class" association in the US, and remains popular.

I am reliably informed you could pick up a quick shilling or two after 1951 betting Heinz pickles and sauces were American in the pubs that served them, as the Royal Warrant on the label was a good deal easier to see than the home office address. (It was granted for services during the War and as purveyors to Queen Elizabeth II). The whole line of products was available from 1886 on, originally at Fortnum and Mason.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #113 on: April 01, 2012, 02:19:50 pm »

Then we have to add them to the UK list...
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greensteam
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« Reply #114 on: April 01, 2012, 02:40:45 pm »

The list - updated
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My word, I realise I have at one time or another in my life eaten all these except the camp coffee, stilton cheese and the liver salts. Are liver salts really considered food??? Perhaps they should be in a different list.
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #115 on: April 01, 2012, 05:53:41 pm »

@greensteam - Not eaten stilton, you must be a cheese virgin! To have not eaten stilton is not to have lived. If I had to name only one, it is probably the single most important prerequisite food for a steampunk Englishman.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 06:06:17 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #116 on: April 01, 2012, 05:55:10 pm »

The camp coffee is also rather nice and the liver salts, even in my day were offered as a refreshing drink. It doesn't say that on the label now but it used to back in the 60s/70s.

Question for the North Americans here, can you get Stilton cheese in the US?
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 06:05:42 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #117 on: April 01, 2012, 05:56:25 pm »

Do we now have three lists? UK, US and Canada? Von corax, will you maintain the Canadian list?
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Darkhound
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« Reply #118 on: April 01, 2012, 07:25:49 pm »

Stilton cheese is available, as an expensive import, but the traditional starters and mold spores are tightly controlled by the handful of authorized producers in England, so it's one of the few cheeses not made here.

Which brings up a sore point with me; how in the name of all that is holy, in a country that can and does match any cheese but a handful of the most tightly controlled, did this bland processed artificial imitation muck come to be called "American"? Longhorn is an American cheese. Monteray Jack is an American cheese. "American cheese" isn't even cheese, dammit!
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yereverluvinunclebert
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« Reply #119 on: April 01, 2012, 07:52:49 pm »

We don't have american cheese over here, which sounds lucky on our part, is it the processed stuff? Feel free to vent your anger I am sure I can be made to feel the same about some food over here...

Stilton can only be called Stilton if it is made in three counties in the midlands in England.

Cheddar is not protected as they stopped making cheddar in Cheddar for a while and the name is now a generic term merely for a type of cheese. A good one is worth travelling for.

Here is a list of UK (blue) cheese types (Wikip.), I will need to find the old brands for each to see if there are any of the original producers still extant. I reckon I can find more than one.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_cheeses - some wading to do
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 08:02:45 pm by yereverluvinunclebert » Logged
Wormster
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« Reply #120 on: April 01, 2012, 08:54:47 pm »

Cheddar is not protected as they stopped making cheddar in Cheddar for a while and the name is now a generic term merely for a type of cheese. A good one is worth travelling for.

AHHAHHHH!, There is locally produced cheddar cheese matured underground not a mile or so away from me in goughs cave, as part of the grockle tour you pass by the cheese racks, the same can be done down the road in wookey as well. the results as sold in the tat shops comes out a tad expensive, but the taste of the local fare is worth the spend!
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #121 on: April 01, 2012, 09:20:27 pm »

@greensteam - Not eaten stilton, you must be a cheese virgin! To have not eaten stilton is not to have lived. If I had to name only one, it is probably the single most important prerequisite food for a steampunk Englishman.

Ha, ha, ha!  Sorry but I'll have to tweet this! Ha, ha, ha!
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J. Wilhelm
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« Reply #122 on: April 01, 2012, 09:56:24 pm »

Stilton cheese is available, as an expensive import, but the traditional starters and mold spores are tightly controlled by the handful of authorized producers in England, so it's one of the few cheeses not made here.

Which brings up a sore point with me; how in the name of all that is holy, in a country that can and does match any cheese but a handful of the most tightly controlled, did this bland processed artificial imitation muck come to be called "American"? Longhorn is an American cheese. Monteray Jack is an American cheese. "American cheese" isn't even cheese, dammit!


 An important point, brought about in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_cheese

Quote
"Today’s American cheese is generally no longer made from blended cheeses, but instead is manufactured from a set of ingredients[1] such as milk, whey, milkfat, milk protein concentrate, whey protein concentrate, and salt. In the United States it may not be legally sold as "cheese", and must be labeled as "processed cheese", "cheese product", or similar--e.g., "cheese food".


So in essence not even the US Govt. will recognize it as cheese.  You may not label it cheese either! "processed cheese" or "cheese product" may still be used.  But not cheese.

According to this same article, originally it was a blend of cheeses, most notably Cheddar-style cheese made in America - yet it sold outside of America, because of its low price

Quote
British colonists made cheddar as soon as they arrived in America. By 1790, American cheddars were being exported back to England. The British referred to American cheddar as "American cheese", or "Yankee cheese", and post-Revolution Americans promoted this usage to distinguish their product from European cheese.[6] For example, an 1878 newspaper article in The New York Times lists the total export of American cheese at 355 million pounds per year, with an expected growth to 1,420 million pounds.[7]

Originally, the English considered American cheese inferior in quality; still, it was cheap, so it sold. This connotation of the term American cheese became entrenched in Europe. "American cheese" continued to refer to American cheddar until the advent of processed cheese. Americans referred to their cheddar as "yellow cheese" or "store cheese", because of its popularity and availability.[6] By the 1890s, once cheese factories had sprung up across the nation, American cheddar was also referred to as "factory cheese". And in the 1920s another slang term arose for the still popular cheese: "rattrap cheese", or "rat cheese"


The name "American Cheese" was acquired, oddly enough, outside of America where imported yellow cheese would be called "American" (!)  So we didn't even get to name the name this atrocity!  What American merchants did was in fact promote the name as a marketing tool.

I think the association of the name  "American Cheese" with this processed product actually exacerbated the perceptions of American cheeses as low quality cheeses around the world.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2012, 10:09:30 pm by J. Wilhelm » Logged
Dr. Madd
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« Reply #123 on: April 01, 2012, 10:05:46 pm »

Altoids- Founded in the 1700's.
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« Reply #124 on: April 01, 2012, 10:24:46 pm »

There is nothing wrong with American cheddar, it even comes in regional varieties. I like Vermont extra sharp cheddar myself.

You will never find artificial imitation processed slices on my cheeseburgers! Or anything else I cook.
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