Steampunk and History questions

[ElecTinker]

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this, but is there any major differences between history in the real world vs. Steampunk. I understand that the tech changed and such, but I was more meaning the wars. I'm attempting to start a Steampunk story and I enjoy details like that. For example, I wouldn't want a character to be written that they served in the American Civil War, and have it turn out that it never happened in the Steampunk realm. Thank you all in advance for any help that can be given

[Lady Chrystal]

The simple answer is - it depends what you want.

Everyone who writes Steampunk stories invents their own world. Some worlds are very similar to ours, some are very different. It's entirely up to the writer to create their own rules - with a historical point of deviation in many cases. You just have to convince your reader that it's real enough.

[ElecTinker]

Ah, that makes sense, thank you for the information

[Lady Chrystal]

You're welcome.

There are a number of threads in Textual about Steampunk books. You could have a look at those for some recommendations in the genre. Read how others have done it and you'll soon form your own ideas.

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

You can pick and choose what you want from history for your setting from the real world, or create your own world with its own history, but which echoes the society and mores of Victorian Britain. The only limitation is your imagination.

[Dr Fidelius]

If pressed, I tell people that my divergence point was that the War of Jenkin's Ear turned out differently, with the other side winning.
As no one seems to know when the War of Jenkin's Ear occurred, who was involved, and who actually won, or what the historic repercussions would be if had gone otherwise, it is as a nebulous a time-line split point as one could ask for. (I am referring to "normal" people - I fully expect someone here to point out how the commercial interests and relationship of Britain and Spain in the New World would have changed during the mid-1700s, probably resulting in a very different time-line for North America before the year 1900.)

As to the OP, the American Civil War is a very important event in most Steampunk stories set on this side of the Atlantic. In the scenario I am developing, the anti-airship strategies and devices developed by the Union to destroy Confederate dirigibles were adapted to the Great Kraken Hunts of the Indian Wars in the following decades. The Laputa Sioux would never have submitted to treaties if they could still sustain their airbourne nomadic lifestyle following the Kraken Herd-flocks. A chapter in American history which no one is proud of, although lately scholars have been able to strip away some of the heroic myths surrounding the 7th Airborn Cavalry and "Custer's Last Jump."

[Madasasteamfish]

If pressed, I tell people that my divergence point was that the War of Jenkin's Ear turned out differently, with the other side winning.
As no one seems to know when the War of Jenkin's Ear occurred, who was involved, and who actually won, or what the historic repercussions would be if had gone otherwise, it is as a nebulous a time-line split point as one could ask for. (I am referring to "normal" people - I fully expect someone here to point out how the commercial interests and relationship of Britain and Spain in the New World would have changed during the mid-1700s, probably resulting in a very different time-line for North America before the year 1900.)

Entirely possible. If the War of Jenkins' Ear had turned out differently it would have had not only consequences in North America but Europe as well. The first difference would of course be likely a French Empire encompassing almost all Continental Europe under a universal monarch (with the possible exception of Britain and some of the German States). In North America, you wouldn't have Canada as it stands now, and you have questions over the existence of the USA (and whether the 13 colonies would have rebelled, and or the other revolutions later) given the swathes of French territory West of the Appalachians to the Pacific and then you Spanish territory in South America.

Sorry for the extended discussion I'm basing my thesis around the War of Jenkins' Ear and Austrian Succession.

[MWBailey]

In the Steam London RPs, the Civil War questiion is sort of nebulous; I'd imagine that something of the sort transpired, but with different consequences due in no small part to the vastly different territorial situations. Large parts of what is now our own RL version of the US went independent; the republic of Tennessee (pronounced far differently from the way we do now), The Empire of Louisiana, and the Republic of Texas (never joined the union, and became a veritable "pocket superpower" and major ally of Geat Britain) are just the largest examples of such.

2.

[pakled]

That's what I love about this place; I thought I was the only person who'd even heard of the War of Jenkins' Ear... Heck, I even created a character in a story named Jenkins, just to put a reference in...

That being said, I've wondered what would have happened if someone like Otto von Bismark hadn't made it to the big leagues; a weak Germany and a strong Britain...wait, that's the point... j/k...it could be the other way around, strong Germany, heck, I think every country could get a shot.

Also, check out alternative histories; people like Turtledove, Harry Harrison, etc., are a good source for ideas (I think they even have awards for alternative history nowadays, but they have awards for everything nowadays as well...

[projectlongstreet]

It is up to you to determine if the tensions for war still exist in your stories world.  Depending on your setting, you could completely erase some wars, or with the advances in technology perhaps new motivations to mobilize armies arise.

[Captain Braid]

As a slight aside Great Britain was a heavy supporter of the Confederate states and I work less than a Mile from the Shipyards where a lot of Blockade runners where built and launched.
John Laird made a lot of money building those ships to supply the Lancashire Cotton mills.

So an increased involvement in the American Civil War isn't too far fetched, this could lead to a more global/colonial based conflict between the powers in countries where alternative cotton production could take place.
History is only a starting point in fiction, not it's absolute definition.

[HR]

As a slight aside Great Britain was a heavy supporter of the Confederate states and I work less than a Mile from the Shipyards where a lot of Blockade runners where built and launched.
Joh Laird made a lot of money building those ships to supply the Lancashire Cotton mills.

So an increased involvement in the American Civil War isn't too far fetched, this could lead to a more global/colonial based conflict between the powers in countries where alternative cotton production could take place.
History is only a starting point in fiction, not it's absolute definition.

We supported and sold to both sides, Officially it was the Union that we preferd (we were neutral) but we were more than happy to take the Confederacies Money too.

[Arkwright]

OK here is something very left field to think about.

History is what is written down. One of the themes of George Orwell's 1984, was the possibility that the history of Airstrip one was not chronologically correct and that periods of time had simply been removed from the official history to erase politically unacceptable events.

I'm using this as the basis of a flash fiction serial in Cogzine, called Secret Histories. The main thrust of the story is not about what happened in those parts of history that were rewritten or erased, but what happens when someone finds out they exist...

By the way - if you think it implausable, just remember there are twelve days missing from September 1752 in Great Britain, and that as different countries adopted the calender at different times (often different centuries) they had differing numbers of missing days.

It gets worse - In the medieval period, the dates of the birth or death of kings and other historic dates were to an accuracy of up to 3 years.

But that's not the worst of it. Archaeologists and historians are uncertain whether or not the Greek Dark age (a period of 400 years) happened at all!

As Abney park would say - all the myths are true.

TTFN

Arkwright

[Angus A Fitziron]

I think Steampunk stories need to start somewhere recognisable, a point of departure if you like. That gives you a scenario that is known and understood and is credible as it forms part of history. It also gives you a context - you know what the global position is, what people eat, how people live, what has already been invented and so on. Then, as the histories diverge, so the steampunk universe changes compared to the 'real' universe.

Mark Hodder bases his trilogy on the premise that an attempt on Queen Victoria's life, unsuccessful in real life, but, due to meddling with time travel, the assassination is succesful and we enter the Albertian era, rather than the Victorian. He also, rather cleveryly contrives some changes to the consitution which enables the Queen's consort to aceded to the throne.

I wonder what would have happened if Louis-Napoléon Bonaparte III had been assassinated after the Crimean War. He set himself up as Emperor and although he collaberated with Britain to remove the Russian 'threat' to European power, it seems reasonable that he should have had a lot of enemies. A large proportion of the French populace would have thought they had seen the end of kings and emperors in favour of a Republic. The Russians may have seen him as a valid target as revenge for him attacking and defeating them. I don't understand why he would have been popular with the British either, having spent much of their generation and their father's fighting the French. The French were generally disliked and despised by the British in the 19th Century - read anything written at the time! So, if the assassination attempt against him in 1858 was successful then what could have been the consequences? Maybe a restoration of Republic, maybe with Victor Hugo as president? Maybe a soveriegn would be accepted, say a young woman, maybe one of Napoleon Bonapartes neices, as a figurehead to allow France to copy Britain in the hope it would restore their fortunes without war. Maybe then, both France and Britain, secure in a relatively quiet Europe and both dependant on cotton to feed their mills, would have more actively sided with the Confederate states? Italy would have remained a bunch of independant colourful kingdoms with Austria spending more time and money in an Austro Italian alliance, thus depriving Prussia of a key part of German reunification and Germany would continue to make tinplate toys and cuckoo clocks instead of armaments. The Franco Prussian war would not have happened (it was started by Louis Napoleon Bonaparte III) so denying von Bismark opportunities to gain power. Thus isolated, maybe the First World War was significantly delayed or maybe never happened... 

So, start in history and then change just one thing. Then see what happens!