X-Rays

[SPBrewer]

Cool footage of Dr. Coolidge about X-Rays.  It's interesting to see a Wimshurst machine powering a X-Ray tube for about 10 seconds at the 36 second mark in the video.  The Wimshurst machine would make a home X-Ray machine look more steampunk. (IMHO)

[Edmund Charles Rutherford]

I am actually in the process of building a Wimshurst machine, and it is quite fun.  I can't wait to see what I can power with it.  I'm looking into a few gas-discharge tubes (Geissler tubes at the moment), but I may branch out into other types of tubes and such as funding will allow.

[SPBrewer]

I am actually in the process of building a Wimshurst machine, and it is quite fun.  I can't wait to see what I can power with it.  I'm looking into a few gas-discharge tubes (Geissler tubes at the moment), but I may branch out into other types of tubes and such as funding will allow.

Edmund et al,
    This guy "claims" to be emitting X-Rays from his wimhurst machine.  All I see is an electron beam tube lighting up.  He show radiation coming from the tube, but as far as I know that could be some wavelength other than X-rays.  I would have liked to have seen an image enhancer screen with actual x-ray images.  I don't doubt that the wimhurst machine has enough umph to generate x-rays.  I may go that route too. 

Hand-cranked x-ray machine

                             Stan, er I mean the Sky Pirate...

[Edmund Charles Rutherford]

SP, thanks for the video.  I intend to finish my Wimshurst machine after I finish re-locating myself back down to Texas, which means it will be a few months before I get around to completing it.  I know almost nothing about x-rays, so for the time being I'm planning on using it to power things that are less likely to kill me...but I intend to follow this thread in hopes of learning more, so that eventually I may be able to experiment with an x-ray tube or two.

[DrArclight]

I am actually in the process of building a Wimshurst machine, and it is quite fun.  I can't wait to see what I can power with it.  I'm looking into a few gas-discharge tubes (Geissler tubes at the moment), but I may branch out into other types of tubes and such as funding will allow.

Edmund et al,
    This guy "claims" to be emitting X-Rays from his wimhurst machine.  All I see is an electron beam tube lighting up.  He show radiation coming from the tube, but as far as I know that could be some wavelength other than X-rays.  I would have liked to have seen an image enhancer screen with actual x-ray images.  I don't doubt that the wimhurst machine has enough umph to generate x-rays.  I may go that route too. 

Hand-cranked x-ray machine

                             Stan, er I mean the Sky Pirate...

Well, if he has an electron beam, then he can easily produce X-Rays.  This is actually the reason that TV tubes are made of lead glass.  When an electron beam strikes glass or certain metals (like the shadow mask in a picture tube) it produces X-Rays.  In fact, you can turn pretty much any old vacuum tube into an X-Ray tube by connecting high-voltage to the cathode and placing a grounded aluminum foil sheet over the top.  If you can manage to heat the cathode slightly it'll work better.

See this article:  http://www.noah.org/science/x-ray/stong/

[SPBrewer]

While trying to get an idea of what I want my X-Ray machine to look like, I found this:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/11/vintage-shoe-fitting-x-ray-machines-will-zap-your-feet/

The last sentence mentions Airport X-Ray machines.  Perhaps people who travel a lot will soon be known as.....
Frequent Fryers.   

[von Corax]

While trying to get an idea of what I want my X-Ray machine to look like, I found this:
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/11/vintage-shoe-fitting-x-ray-machines-will-zap-your-feet/

Those look like the machine that nearly shut down Chalk River Labs in the early 50's, when the secretary carrying a case of film badges to be developed stopped off to buy a pair of shoes...

[Mr. Consciousflesh]

Like this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/brewers_2150/6705323129/#

Yes , this is the Intensifier screen. It should glow in the UV light too .

If you plan to use the glass as a shielding use ONLY the lead glass from a proven source. The lime glass and borosilicate glass are almost transparent to X-rays. You should calculate the necessary thickness of the shield taking into account the maximal energy of the emitted radiation , the lamp current and the lead equivalent for a selected glass . The shielding sufficient for 30 keV "soft"  X-rays won't provide necessary protection when working at 50 or more kV .

The Wimshurst machine can produce no more than 10-20 microamps . In my opinion it is not enough to produce beam strong enough to create X-ray image . Maybe it will work with an intensifying screen and long exposure photography ?

[SPBrewer]

The X-ray machine #3 on this page appears to be driven by a Wimhurst machine with 4 disks.
http://www.oobject.com/category/9-vintage-x-ray-machines/

(Of course, we don't actually see it working)
 
I'll try my intensifiers under UV to see if they glow.
(Do they go bad after some time?)

[SPBrewer]

Anybody building a steampunk x-ray and wants the internals, I've just spotted new dental x-ray units from HongKong for $216.00 with only $219.00 shipping. They call them "Green" X-ray machines with no special guards needed. see item 190548488163 .

There are some cassettes (source of intensifier screens) out there too, at more realistic prices.  Search for "cassette x-ray".

[SPBrewer]

   I have obtained the Lead to line the inside of my X-ray box.  Now all I need is a source for Leaded Glass and the tests will begin.  I was thinking about testing glass to determine if it is leaded today.  Then it dawned on me to use a small bit of Americium and my geiger counter to test the subject glasses stopping power.  One person on Youtube said he used "Aquarium glass".  Is there some reason Aquarium glass would need to be leaded?    Does anybody know a good source for Leaded Glass?

[Mr. Consciousflesh]

The lead glass has a lower melting temperature , making it easier to work than normal soda-lime glass. It was often used for decorative purposes in the good old times . Testing the glass with the Am-241  source seems a good idea since this isotope emits soft gamma rays at around 60 keV .

[SPBrewer]

I have found a local glass company who might be able to help with the Leaded Glass.  The best I have been able to find on my own is via ebay, at $125 + $25 shipping for 80 square inch (8x10).
If I can find a good deal, would anybody else want a sheet?  The more the company can sell, the lower the price.

[SPBrewer]

   Well, I've not heard back from the glass company, so in the next day or two, I will be disassembling a couple of CRT's to salvage the leaded glass from them for the front of my X-ray machine. 
   I will be using a skeleton key and it's door lock for the on/off switch.  The key is an additional layer of protection to keep people from turning it on. 
   I am also working on a Gear <insert moan here> from a clock to be used on the case.  Actually the gear will be an indicator showing when the radiation is being produced.  I have selected a 6 spoked gear and filled in every other opening between spokes.  This will be over a round area of the machines case that is painted black.  This same area will also contain 3 pieces of brass attached to the case and positioned so that they show through the the openings between the spokes that were not already filled.  Thus with the machine "off" this indicator will look like a solid brass gear as such:



(My apologies for the blurred photos)

Then, with the machine on, the gear will be rotated 1/6th of a revolution so that the open area of the gear will no longer have the brass showing thru, but have the black painted wood of the case showing.  This image will be the Radiation symbol (with gear teeth) like this:



If all goes well, I should have my first X-ray images ready within the week.

[SPBrewer]

Well, I disassembled a CRT tonight.  After carefully allowing air into the CRT, I removed the deflection coils, then covered the neck with a rug and broke it off.  This caused a little more of the funnel glass to break off too.  Seeing that the funnel glass was thinner than the front glass, I decided that I could leave the metal strap around the front glass and gently break the funnel glass, leaving me the front glass.  Well after all the careful hacking, I looked and found that a crack had gone across the front. 
Here is what I got:


Notice the grey tint that comes thru the leaded glass.  I have a piece of Americium from an old (60's?) smoke detector.  This thing has a LOT more radiation than the modern 1.0 curie detectors of today.
The glass stopped all the radiation.  Even with this, I do plan to hide from the radiation after my machine is complete, until I get a reading off my Geiger counter.

I did also get a bit of Phosphor from the front screen for use in building my own Oscilloscope CRT later.


The CRT front cracking wasn't at total loss.  I had not noticed before but it had scratches in the glass on the front.

Well, next CRT I will use a diamond blade to separate the front from the funnel.
I'm getting close. 

[SPBrewer]

Status update:
Since I messed up the first CRT, I've obtained a Gateway EV730 Monitor from a local thrift store for $4.95 .  The Screen was 16 inch diagonal (13 x 9.5).  I used my 7.25 inch Diamond blade in my circular saw and cut the front off.  (After safely removing the vacume) The front weighed in at a little over 11 lbs.


The front as it was removed from the CRT.


Here you can see that the diamond blade worked much better than trying to "chip" away the funnel glass like I did last time.


I'll be using the diamond blade to smooth out some of the rough places on the glass tomorrow.
I think I'll leave the metal band and the mounting brackets to use in mounting the glass into a wooden framework.


Here is the wooden frame I plan to use with the front.  I'll have to cut the frame down just a little.

With a little over 11 lbs in just the front screen, the weight of the box, the lead to line the box, and then the Ruhmkorff coil, the Tesla coil, and other parts, this thing is going to be heavy!

[Tower]

Can't wait to see it work! This thing is going to be amazing.

[SPBrewer]

   I'm working on the cabinet now.  For a little while I considered scrapping out my 1915 Edison A 100 phonograph.  But even thought I dislike Edison, I've decided to keep the phonograph original.

  The X-ray machine will be fully functional, in a steampunk design and constructed with the materials and technology available during the Victorian Era.  It is NOT designed to produce X-ray images of human or live animals.  I do not want to take the chance of harming anybody or any animal.  However it will be fun to X-Ray household items and I am a fossil & mineral collector so it will be interesting to look into some of my specimens.

  I plan to use a skeleton key to keep kids or others from firing it up.  Also there will be safety interlocks on the front, similar to that on Microwaves.  The front will swing open to show a cavity like a microwaves.  The items to be X-rayed will be placed close to the front.  Once the front is closed and locked, power can be applied via a knife switch and the X-ray image will appear on the front screen.  Also included will be the radiation cog as in a couple of posts above.  I'm thinking of putting two wooden doors the will close to protect the screen when the machine is not in use.  Also, I'm thinking of a cover (much like the early Victrola's had) to cover the electrical items when the machine is not in use, thus keeping dust out of their workings.

I am open to suggestions for what the cabinet should look like.  I don't want to get carried away with non-functioning things tacked on.  There will be plenty of cool items as is.  What I'm having a hard time with is envisioning a Victorian looking cabinet.  Steampunk has become almost too wide spread.  I can't Google "Victorian Electrical", "Victorian Electric", "Victorian Enclosure", or "Victorian Device" without Steampunk items coming up.  I'm what you might call a Conservative Steampunk and I want the machine to look like it really did exist in 1899!

[Tower]

What about slate? as someone suggested for my electrical cabinet its period material for electrical work and easy to find in the form of flooring tiles.

[SPBrewer]

What about slate? as someone suggested for my electrical cabinet its period material for electrical work and easy to find in the form of flooring tiles.

I like the idea, but I suspect Slate would add a lot to the weight.

If anybody is foolish enough to attempt building an X-Ray machine following my example, might I make some suggestions. 
1.  While cutting glass with a diamond blade in a circular saw, be mindful of where the glass shards are coming out.  I found several in an antique radio in my shop near where I was working.  I was just glad the glass didn't come flying out at high speed at me!
2.  When removing the Phosphorus from the front of the screen wear rubber gloves.  Not due to toxicity, but because Phosphorus will turn your skin black.
3.  Remember before cutting into the CRT, to discharge the High Voltage, then drain the vacuum from it.  To drain the vacuum, set the CRT facedown on a soft blanket to keep from scratching the screen.  (I messed up my 1st CRT by not doing so and the screen got scratches in it.)  Next, cover the back of the CRT with heavy quilts or blankets, and cardboard.  I used an old blanket folded over several times, then a cardboard box cut down to fit, then another old blanked folded several times to cover the CRT and all the other coverings.  This is just in case things go wrong.  Then place a small screw driver into the back of the neck of the CRT, between the pins.  There should be a plastic piece around the CRT pins with an opening in the center.  You will see the glass through this opening, push the screwdriver through the various layers of coverings then place it on the piece of glass.  Lower the coverings and GENTLY tap the screwdriver with a hammer, listening for the sound of air as the CRT fills, loosing it's vacuum.  Once the sound stops, I hammer it some more to MAKE SURE the glass has opened.  Once the vacuum is revealed you may then continue.  I usually break the neck off, with the covers still in place, being sure to save the electron guns.  These could come in handy for other Steampunk projects as they look cool and not too many people have ever seen them.
4.  Be sure to use heavy leather gloves, and possibly a heavy leather apron too, because no matter how careful you are there will still be sharp shards of glass the will find it's way to your hands.
5.  Wear your Goggles!

I'll have more progress to show soon.  Neuropathy has held me down the past couple of days.

[DrArclight]

I have a (possibly dumb) question....

Maybe I missed this earlier in the discussion, but why remove the phosphor from the front of the CRT?  If you're going to be using this thing like an old fluoroscope where you view the X-Ray images on the screen, why not just leave the phosphors there and excite them directly with the X-Rays rather than cleaning th screen of then using another screen from an X-Ray image enhancer?

Seems like just using the CRT phosphors would cut down on the parts count a bit, plus if it was an old "green & Black" type monochrome CRT you'd have a very interesting look.

The only flaw in this that immediately comes to mind is the possibility of the phosphors oxidizing with constant exposure to the air.

[SPBrewer]

Dr. Arclight,
   My very first question in this thread was:
"Does anybody know if the front screen of an old CRT would work as a Fluoroscope?"
Replies came in suggesting a number of other methods so I assumed, possibly wrong, that the phosphor on a CRT would not work.  Once I get her going, I may try with another CRT with it's phosphor intact.
You are right it would be MUCH easier, and would save having to buy used X-Ray cartridges.

[Khem Caigan]

Various lacquers were used inside the old CRTs in
the first place - sometimes they were coated with
sputtered metals afterwards <tungsten and silver
and gold and such>.

If there are any concerns about the phosphor
delaminating from the inner surface of the CRT
after you have opened it up, you could do much
worse than giving it a few thin coats of some
spray lacquer < and, yes - bleached shellac will
work a treat - needn't be acrylic, &tc. >.

[SPBrewer]

YES!  I have X-rays!  Using the Harry Simons method.  I have the exhilaration of Dr. Frankenstein mixed with some questions that will cause more experiments before the machine is completed.
    
   None of the dozen or so High Voltage Rectifier tubes I have worked.  The little 7 watt lamp blew the old Geiger counter off the scale, so I went up to the next scale and got about 1 Mr./Hour reading with some flash over from the output.  I removed the lamp and let the output jump equally long sparks and found the Geiger counter to drop to background radiation levels.  I replaced the 7 watt bulb and placed my Intensifying screen over the bulb and found it to glow.  The little 7 watt bulb had purple glows inside of it along with the flash over.   I moved the aluminum foil back on both ends until it no longer had flash over.  At that point my radiation dropped from 1 Mr./Hour down to about .1 Mr./Hour.  I replaced the 7 watt bulb with a 60 watt clear bulb about the size of a baseball.  While it looked like a Plasma Globe, there was no radiation coming from it.  I even moved the ground and the output from my HV supply so that I would get flashover, but still no radiation!  

Do any of you Mad Scientists want to help this old Sky Pirate?

1.  Why would none of my HV Rectifier tubes work?  Yes, I'm sure I had the Cathode and Anodes connected, and I even tried reversing them.

2.  Why did I get more radiation from the little 7 watt lamp when it had flashover?

3.  Why do little 7 watt bulbs work but larger bulbs don't?


Next:
1.  I will place my experiments behind Lead and Leaded glass, before attempting to increase the radiation.

2.  I will find more 7 watt bulbs that work and try to connect them in parallel to see if I can get more radiation that way.

3.  I'll make some photographs and share them here.

[J. Wilhelm]

Not an expert on X-rays just my poor understanding on X-ray tubes... (I think!!!, so anyone feel free to correct me... There is no hard vacuum in a light bulb.  An inert gas or maybe a "soft" vacuum.  The greater the diameter of the bulb the more chances for the electrons to interact with gas molecules before striking the glass -which produces the x-rays-  hence the less x-rays you get out of the device.  Smaller tubes give you more X-rays for a given energy level (DC for plasma globes AC voltage)--again feel free to correct me.  I think that there has always been a concern that in plasma globes the smaller the diameter of the globe for a given potential the more danger there is of radiation--think about that when you buy your next novelty $7 mini plasma globe from China....

EDIT:  I stand corrected Mr. Concious flesh is right, the electrons strike a metal plate not glass for x-ray machines, but I do seem to recall that some electrons will get stopped by the glass in plasma globes, and do produce ionizing (x-ray) radiation... perhaps a matter of efficiency at stopping the electrons