Windows XP takes 30mins to start up!

[Angus A Fitziron]

OK, so this is a bit cheeky, but I have used this particular 7 year old PC to read and write to BrassGoggles! The machine is the 'family' computer in that it is the one people generally use and although I have a recently built Win7 m/c ready to take over, I get little co-operation in managing files onto a NAS I have just installed...

As I intend to re-purpose the guts of the XP Pro m/c into a steampunk project and re-use the case (a lovely big Lian-Li ally job) for a new quad core beast, it would be good if I could get the start up performance improved. It spends 20 minutes on the Welcome screen alone! I am guessing this has happened over the last few months as it only came to light when the graphics card failed just before Christmas. During the repair it became apparent that the start up was sadly lacking. I have run a clean up utility (the AGV free sample - which is a laugh because I think the AGV virus suite is one of the problems) but when I tested the startup this morning I decided that 30 minutes is unacceptable and that there is something seriously wrong.

Is this the best that I can expect from XP Pro with a 3.2G Pentium 4 and 3G of memory? Is anybody else experiencing this phenomena? I tried a Safe Mode start and rolled back the build and got a better start but this was whilst testing out the repair.

I own the Windows disc (ie not OEM) so I suppose I could strip all the stuff off, loading just what I intend to use on the project - internet, Cubase 5 with audio interface and some DVD playing software - and reinstall XP if I can still get SP3 on line...

Decisions, decisions, decisions...

Help!

[Maj Heiner Cybersnell]

Here are a few steps I would recommend (I am a computer technician with a Bachelors in MIS):

The first thing I would do is download Malwarebytes, update it, and run a full scan. That will catch most things if it is a virus (as well as some adware, etc.)

Next I would install and run ccleaner. Run both the cleanup utility and the memory cleanup. It's a pretty straightforward program to use. You'll probably free up 1-2gb when you run the cleaner, I've seen one computer clear 45gb. So it will free up a little space.

I would personally uninstall AVG, If you are looking for free products, I use Windows Security Essentials which actually does a really good job.

Next I would download combofix. Run this. If you have an anti-virus program on, it will give you a warning. The same Warning twice. Just click ok both times and it will run.

The last couple things I would do are defrag it (you can use the built in defragger. Or, defraggler runs much quicker).

Last, check for a bad hard drive to make sure the hard drive itself isn't failing. Older computers also have slower hard drives. I personally check hard drives in Ubuntu since it's pretty straightforward. If you can't do that, certain computers will have a hardware check for checking hard drives.

Links to said programs:

www.malwarebytes.com (when installed, click on decline free trial. It is a free program for personal use, no need for a free trial of pro)

http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner/download ccleaner

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/security-essentials-download Security Essentials

http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/download/combofix/ Combofix

http://www.piriform.com/defraggler/download Defraggler

[Siliconous Skumins]

Speaking as an ex-computer tech - If windows has got to the point of  30min boot up, I would just save all the files you want to keep, then format c: and reinstall windows from the CD. A clean install will give around 1 to two mins boot time tops, probably quicker.

When windows gets to that sort of state, there are usually way too many issues that need sorting to be worth the time and effort. The exception to that is if there is a program / data that you need (like mission critical needed!) and which cannot be reinstalled for whatever reason. Otherwise, just spend the next 30mins or so formatting and installing.


You also may want to use the Recovery Console on the CD to run "Chkdsk", "Fixmbr" and "Fixboot" commands, these will check (and fix) the drive for physical and formatting errors, and renew the MBR (master boot record) and write a new partition boot sector, respectively. It's possible a virus has corrupted the MBR or messed up the boot sector (though usually windows will not boot at all in such a case). The console is available at the options after running setup / booting from the CD.

more info on the comands available: 

http://www.microsoft.com/resources/documentation/windows/xp/all/proddocs/en-us/recovery_console_cmds.mspx?mfr=true

SS

[SeVeNeVeS]

Im using a 10 year old machine (Im no expert here, I hit things with hammers for a living)

Ive got two hard drives installed 300GB ish each. C only runs windows xp pro and programs. I save all my stuff to D and external drives.

Mine was starting to get a bit sluggish so I ran the program as suggested above, CCleaner. I used the Wipe free space util', registry cleaner and had a general clean-up got rid of my anti-virus and installed Avast free, spy-bot and malwarebytes........ boots up in about the time it takes to boil a kettle for a cup of tea now.

Every six moths or so I jam the hoover in there to remove any dust and rubbish that may cause over-heating.

~SeVeN~

[RJBowman]

No operating system for a PC should ever take that long to boot, and it all goes to show you that the standard that has been foisted upon the public is a piece of crap.

The problem, most likely, is the Windows registry, which is something that can only properly maintained by someone with some training, and which will eventually require said maintainence on any machine that is used long enough.

This registry was developed by Microsoft as a replacement for individual records files created by various software aps; a system that Microsoft declared obsolete and unmaintainable in the early 1990's.

Now: Guess what: Microsoft is now saying that the Windows Registry is obsolete and unmaintainable, and future versions of Windows will shift toward having individual records files for each software ap.

Unless you are trained or fairly knowledgeable in the field, you might not be able to fix the problem except by wiping the hard drive and reinstalling everything. I remember that back in the mid 1990's that was the solution that Microsoft used to suggest for just about every Windows problem you could name.

[Maets]

Cleaning the registry should help significantly.  Microsoft used to have a fantastic free utility that did this, but it no longer exists.  The best I have found is PC Tools Registry Cleaner for $29 for three computers.  Just ran it on my fathers PC and it found over 3200 errors in the registry.  The speed change was DRAMATIC.  Beware of some of the free tools out there.

[Maj Heiner Cybersnell]

Cleaning the registry should help significantly.  Microsoft used to have a fantastic free utility that did this, but it no longer exists.  The best I have found is PC Tools Registry Cleaner for $29 for three computers.  Just ran it on my fathers PC and it found over 3200 errors in the registry.  The speed change was DRAMATIC.  Beware of some of the free tools out there.

Ccleaner by piriform does it for free and is a great program. I use it at work on a daily basis while cleaning up clients computers. Makes a world of difference.

[Angus A Fitziron]

Those are some very helpful responses, thank you! I put the C: drive in an external caddy to download any data files I could find (this PC is used for 3 or 4 other people over the years, so although I have set data disks, there is stuff everywhere..) and it did sound a bit 'scratchy' and got quite hot but the various disc checking tests that I ran on it found no problems. There are three hard disks in the PC amounting to about 900GB so defragging is rarely merited as the disc storage is way in excess of what is needed.

I'll have a look at the utilities recommended and see what improvement I can gain that way. I suspect once I have changed the family over to Win7 (most now sneak onto my Win7 laptop and daughter has just got a Win8 laptop - so it is primarily a data file availability and familiarity with certain programmes that are the block) then I can do a fresh install, maybe on a new hard drive as the existing is a Maxtor Diamond 200GB which don't seem to be very mainstream any more...

Once again, thanks very much, especially Major Cybersnell for the very comprehensive response.

Onwards and upwards!

[Maets]

Thought I would try the CCleaner.  VERY bad experience just spent the last hour getting my computer working again.  I am using XP and tried the free CClean.  Not sure why it didn't like my system.  Very scary.  Be careful.

[SeVeNeVeS]

I use CCleaner at least twice a week (free version v3.01.1327) and have never had a problem.

Id be interested to know what went wrong Mr Maets.

~SeVeN~

[Angus A Fitziron]

Emergency situation yesterday so ended up babysitting grand kids and no work on PC - however, when Swimbo fired it up, startup was 8 mins. Still poor but much improved. This was nothing more than my resetting system performance to 'performance' rather than 'let windows choose' and deleting a couple of random programmes and moving a couple of programmes out of the start up options during the previous up day. It may be that it was the second boot up after AVG's PC Tune Up did its stuff? The 30 minute timed one was the first start after running the program - I wonder if it needed a boot cycle to get Windows straightened out (as well as the required restart that is)?

I will probably ditch AVG at the next cycle, it has got rather intrusive what with forcing toolbars on you, etc. Norton 360 which came with the laptop seems much lighter and quite effective as well as good value in the 3 computer package.

I'll do another couple of control startups and then try the Ccleaner &etc recommendations once I have made sure also that all the required backups are done. I guess one of my concerns is that I have a a couple of favourite programmes that, although I can reload them, I have them running just how I like them and I now can't remember what I did to get them in that shape!

Thanks everybody.

[SeVeNeVeS]

Just remembered it was AVG that knackered my PC after an update, this was some time ago though.

It slowed everything down so much I ditched AVG and opted for avast free havnt had a problem since (touch wood).

~SeVeN~

[Duellist]

Two facts that you might want to consider...

1) Windows XP actually has a free Microsoft antivirus package which you just need to enable via the updater.  It just happens to be disabled by default in much of the civilised world due to monopoly / anti-trust concerns.

2) If you have a Win XP CD-key, you can pick up Windows 8 as an upgrade from Microsoft for £25 / $40 until later this month.  I don't suggest using it on your 10-year old PC, but a new PC without an OS is usually cheaper.

[MechanicalMouse]

............
As I intend to re-purpose the guts of the XP Pro m/c into a steampunk project and re-use the case (a lovely big Lian-Li ally job) for a new quad core beast, it would be good if I could get the start up performance improved. .

Quick question, are you putting new guts in your case? And If so what guts?

A new CPU would mean new motherboard, memory and most likely graphics card. Re-using the Hard Disk seems a little silly as even the cheapest HD will be faster and have higher capacity that you current HD.

Personally for a new cheap PC i would go for an AMD machine.

Also you can't really re-use the OS already installed on a disc for a different set of hardware, Windows just throws a complete wobbly won't boot.

And I've just re-read your sentence and realised, old guys going into steampunk project, new guts into Lian Li case (nice cases).

[Angus A Fitziron]

That's the plan MrMouse. The Lian Li case is the one with the mobo upside down and the hard drives and PSU in a separate compartment in the bottom. As I use the PC for music production, it needs to produce as little ambient noise as possible, so it has a silent fan on the processor using the excellent Asus speed control, the fan on the PSU cools the hard drives as well and otherwise it just has a big 120mm silent fan to vent the case, again thermostatically controlled from the mobo. As I used a passively cooled graphic card the case fan also cools that and probably explains the 7 year life span for the card! I have replaced the Gigabyte 6200 (not particularly demanding graphics) with an Asus nVidea set up. The music apps I use (Cubase, Ableton and Audacity) seem happier with Intel, so I spend the extra and this time going with an i7 quad core, again with an Asus mobo and SSD hard drive, running Win8. The old PC will be re-purposed into an as yet undisclosed project that will be steampunk, run Cubase 5 and XP. This is because the audio interfaces I use, also Steinberg, seem to be optimised for certain drivers. So, the old 2+4 channel device has drivers for XP which run like a train but it goes all floppy and unpredictable with Vista or 7 despite the tech support saying they work fine... I have a new 8 channel audio i/f which I run Cubase 6.5 and Ableton 8 on and that needs Win7 drivers and I am sure Win8 drivers will be available. The new machine will obviously become the main work tool but the old rebuilt one I want to be able to play with still and hopefully the low demand will mean it runs OK.

Why isn't there a 'fingers crossed' emoticon?

[Shadow Of The Tower]

The things some people are willing to put up with from their computers....

[Angus A Fitziron]

Couldn't agree more SotT... however, the computer is not an entity that decides to misbehave, it is merely the reflection of my own procrastination!

 

[Birdnest]

however, the computer is not an entity that decides to misbehave, it is merely the reflection of my own procrastination!

 

Not necessarily so ... my previous rig was beginning to misbehave.  Miscellaneous odd behavior in Acad - not always loading the plugins in Trackion - general weird bits.  I think that the gremlins had ample time to eat wires and whatnot.  After all, it was old enough that I don't remember when I bought it.  The old beastie was kept free of clutter, defragged often, etc.  sometimes, they just get wore out.  I moved the good parts into another oldish rig - this one only 4 years old (a intel duo core).  We use ours in a fashion similar to yours - audio, video and graphics.  Currently 'stuck' with XP for now due to my older DAW.  It is quite quick though, and very quiet.  Sometimes fresh parts are what is needed.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I'm using an ESI Juli 24 with two analog and two digital channels and usb midi for my crappy keyboard coupled into Trackion 2 - clean and fast(ish).  The graphics is a fairly plain Nvidia card that'll run the big flat screen. Avermedia HD usb for video capture.  This one has dual wdc multimedia drives, and a gigabit connection to the server for streaming audio and video (pretty good for acad too).  It'll run win7 but I've got too many 32bit tools that I'm too lazy to refind.  We use ours to master CD's, capture and edit video / fix wonky dvds (bad sound, etc) ... and I use acad for work. Painted up the gawd awful case with hammer finish for the look (more or less) of something a bit more industrial.

[MechanicalMouse]

Angus, I must commend you on your choice of hardware. Asus have long been been my preferred Motherboard choice though my newest machine does have a gigabyte board.

I know the Lian Li case, lovely piece of engineering and design.

My New PC is for graphics design, 16Gig and 6 cores of AMD chip and a nice 2g AMD 7970 graphics card. All actively cooled, but impressed how quiet the stock coolers are.

I've stripped and mounted the monitor to the side of the case and built a handle so its a bit more portable. Given I've made the mod's with what ever I could get my hands on I'd call it a scrap-punk mod...

One day I'll find the time to make a more elegant solution.   

[LukeHogbin]

Is this the best that I can expect from XP Pro with a 3.2G Pentium 4 and 3G of memory? Is anybody else experiencing this phenomena?

Not even remotely the best. Windows XP has a tendency to get clogged up fairly easily, especially if you don't reinstall it cleanly maybe once a year. Considering it's a family computer, I'd expect there to be lots of useless "toolbars" and other bloatware that gets bundled with the installers lately, along with tons of malware.

Safest bet, in my humble opinion, would be to do a complete reinstall. If nothing else, it'd be a lot quicker and a lot more efficient than digging through all the junk and removing it.

[Angus A Fitziron]

Thanks Luke, that's the plan - the 'performance' of the family machine has galvanised everybody into action to back up / clean up / accept the Win7 replacement. Result.

I will then do a complete re-install adding only the two or three programmes I plan to use for the 'retro' XP m/c!

Thanks for the confirmation that this is a realistic course of action.