*TITLE CHANGED*: How important is the Internet to Steampunk?

[SteampunkObserver]

Hello all,

Steampunk, especially on Brass Goggles, seems heavily reliant on the Internet for its very existence. The comment of a user on the "Steampunk Dating" thread to the effect of "I don't get offline much" intrigued me. Average Steampunks often get offline and engage in "in real life" meet-ups (sadly, few are in NYC, as I'd love to visit one), but it also seems that those meet-ups aren't the spice of the community. As a diffuse community that has members around the globe, with no particularly large concentrations, IRL seems to be secondary in Steampunk. The forum, for example, provides "Meta-clubs," defined as "Steampunk 'Internet' Clubs which do not meet in person. Further, only about 1% of all threads or posts on the forum are about geographic meetup, which I found illuminating.

So, I ask your thoughts, not just in the poll but here: Is Steampunk inextricably linked to the Internet?

V/r,

~SO

[von Corax]

To begin with, I'd like to point out that your Subject: line and your poll are asking two different questions.

I'll answer the Subject question first. Is it an Internet-based hobby, or a "movement?" I think the answer is "No." There was another thread around here within the last few months, begun I believe by Vagabond GentleMan, which established (after lengthy debate) that Steampunk is in fact a community. Within that community are smaller communities of those who practice several Steampunk-related hobbies, those who consider it a lifestyle, and no doubt several, probably conflicting, social "movements."

To answer your Poll question: I think that Steampunk would exist (in greatly-diminished form) without the Internet, but that the global Steampunk community absolutely would not. There would likely be several small, local communities scattered around the world (likely mostly in England and North America) with little to no knowledge of one another's existence; there would be far more of us lone Steampunks who "have always been" but who were completely ignorant of the fact that there are other people who share our peculiar interests.

As for meat-space meetings being "not the spice of the community," I don't think so. They merely aren't the spice of this community. Brass Goggles is a global community whose members are, on average, very far away from one another, and as such is, I suspect, ill-suited to the task of organizing meetups. On the other hand, while Brass Goggles is the largest Steampunk community, it is far from being the only Steampunk community. I know there are vibrant local groups such as the Victorian Steampunk Society in Lincoln, as well as groups in Ottawa, Toronto and Calgary, and no doubt many other places which hold regular, perhaps even frequent, meetups within their own areas. Each of these smaller communities will have their own means of communicating which are much better suited to serve a group having a commonality of location than BG, whose members lack that particular commonality.

Finally, Option 2 on your poll: "The Steampunk community would exist without Steampunk, but would be smaller." I rather think the Steampunk community would not exist without Steampunk, but I think that would be a different discussion.

[JohnOdin]

There were Sci Fi conventions and groups like "Trekkers" long before the internet. The Internet is a tool to bring us closer together, but with the amount of books and fashion* about Steampunk around then the movement would still exist. The time was right for something a asthetic movement against the monoculture of iProducts and Bland fashion. Maybe even the state of the economy contributed with steampunks ethic of DIY isntead of Buy.




*Course that's a bit of a chiken/egg thing, Which I put down to the Brass£$ without the internet there would be less mass produced tat labeled steampunk sold on sites like Etsy/Ebay.

[Vagabond GentleMan]

Well, Devil take me, I done been name-dropped!
>tips hat to VonCorax w respects <

...Reckon I oughta reply.

I 'spect that seeing as how the internet and widespread use of it is simply common practice these days for a goodly part of the world, there's little, in terms of community, that isn't to some degree dependent on it.  They have become, to some degree, inherently linked.

The question, to some degree, is moot.

I heard about Steampunk years ago in person, I met other Steampunk online, now some of them are by best friends, and I spend more time in real life with them then I ever do online.

So, 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

>shrugs<

They're working together, aside from that it's all speculation.

[TimeTinker]

I am afraid you have an automatic inherent bias here Mr Steampunkobserver if you are asking this question on an internet board.

I know a great many steampunks who do not participate in the steampunk online experience but are very active in the real world.  Of course were you to ask them this question their viewpoint would differ markedly but the fact they are not active here automatically excludes them from your observations.

The internet is however an integral feature of everyday life for an awful lot of people. Whilst for some it may be their only contact with others who share their interests for many more it is simply a method they use to communicate, to research and to buy and sell (for example components for projects, tickets for events or even knowledge).

The internet:

1. Allows people to find steampunk through casual browsing.
2. Allows people to communicate with others who share their interests. (Exclusively for some but also...)
2a. Can encourage people to meet offline but this requires physical proximity.
2b. Equally can be simply a tool for people who normally meet offline.

Personal conclusion:  Steampunk is certainly linked to the internet but so is every other aspect of life now.   Is this intextricable (with regards to steampunk)?  I suspect for some yes it is.  Generally? No.

A post script comment on JohnOdin's point  - without the internet there would be no etsy or ebay    
My personal sales of steampunk items are all done in the real world with no internet retailing at all.

[Mr. Boltneck]

Not much to add, except that it used to be quite possible to be part of a national or international community without the Web. We did this back in the 1980's, with goth culture, industrial music, the Church of the SubGenius, and so forth via mail art, 'zine culture, cassette tapes, clubbing, cons, and radio. It was not as fast and accurate, but once you started to get connected, it worked.

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

The UK steampunk membership is large enough and close enough for physical get together to be both memorable and numerous. See the UK Child Board in Geographical, and compare number and size of threads with other Child Boards.
The rest of the world has a more diffuse Membership making physical meetups less likely and generally smaller.

The UK is definitely a steampunk community, with people drawn in from across the world and going forth from the UK "cross-pollinating". The Internet facilitates this, but this would occur even without it.
I am not in a position to speak for the rest of the world.

[KABAR2]

Steampunk as it now exists is because of the internet...... it is the modern Roman road
the Roman road allowed expansion and movement of ideas and religions throughout the known world
Todays internet is the modern equivilent without it Steampunk would be small enclaves
one in England one each on the east and west coasts of the United States......
with a smattering of individuals across the globe crying in the wilderness.....
I doubt it would be classes a lifestyle and most of those interested in it would be classed as
eccentric artist types a much different world for sure.......

[J. Wilhelm]

At the risk of being clobbered by my fellow "Austinite" crowd, I'll state my opinion that for Texas Steampunks (http://texassteampunks.ning.com/), in-person meetings are far more important than the local Internet forums which really are more like pegboards showing the local and international events with maybe a few articles written by the members.  My other forum, Steampunk Mexico (http://steampunk.mexico-foro.com), is a national level forum, and the activity is far more frequent and pronounced on the Internet side, I think for obvious reasons.  The forum boasts association with one webcast station, an independent webzine and a new in-house magazine, so you could say that IT competes strongly with the in-person meetings like city-based events and national events and such..


Cheers,

J. Wilhelm

[Ms Fisher]

You may have a little typo in your survey "The Steampunk community would exist without Steampunk, but would be smaller"
I shall very much go to bed with a smile now

[D.Oakes]

If I was online all the time, nobody would get to see how nicely I'm dressed.   

Truthfully apart from research and the social aspect of the internet (communicating with others over great distances) I'm not much of an internet person.  I learned about Steampunk in person and then through "hard" material.  (books, magazines)  It has only been since I got a computer that I have been involved in anything related to steampunk online.  I consider it an oppertunity to exchange ideas and simply have fun. 

[walkthebassline]

I'd have to say Steampunk would certainly exist without the internet, but would probably be more regionally defined, and possibly more codified within those regions.

So, it would exist it would just be different.

[Arabella Periscope]

I believe the Steampunk community without the internet would consist of a few individuals who might collide in airports or train stations or other ports of call and regard each other with astonished recognition!

[Siliconous Skumins]

Steampunk would certainly exist without the internet, but it would be a little different than we see today. Mostly this is because of the way vast numbers of people can share information, ideas, art and projects quickly and easily with others all over the globe. I suspect that without the internet, steampunk would be something more akin to "Victoriana". But it would still exist.

I suppose the best evidence I can give for this existance would be the famous Steeplejack Fred Dibnah from Bolton, UK. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Dibnah

Fred was every bit a Victorian as possible, like he was somehow born in the wrong century. He was very much into the history, style, architecture and especially the technology of the Victorian era. He also wore clothing that would not have been out of place on a working class man of the period. He rebuilt a number of steam engines and traction engines, rescued old tools and other old technology related to manufacture, industry and steam power, and had a large fully working workshop powered by steam in his garden.. He even attempted to build a working replica coal mine in his garden, but sadly he was only granted planning permission for the shaft and tunnel shortly after his death, though he did get the pithead gear installed (and the shaft sunk to 20ft before being stopped...).

Fred did all of that without anything to do with the internet. While he was not a "steampunk" as such, I think most here would agree that he certainly qualified as one.

SS

[TimeTinker]

What this thread is serving to show is how well established the internet is as part of everyday life and that some people now find it nigh impossible to imagine life without it.

Sub cultures such as punk, new romantics and goth all manage to emerge and develop without the internet.   Live role play became a massive hobby without the internet.  Fashions spread without the internet etc.  If there were no internet steampunk would have done the same.  The internet merely serves as a conduit of information and advertising.

I note your social sciences slant SteampunkObserver  Perhaps the overall question is a blind and you are in fact investigating attitudes to the internet.

(The internet does allow people to become immersed in a sub culture if they are geographically distanced from it but then again people used to manage this with magazines, fanzines and good old fashioned letters too.)

[Dr. Madd]

The internet works for the SP community, due to the fact that there are those of us who would not realize that we are not alone if there was no Internet involved.

[S.Sprocket]

Something interesting for your debate Steampunk Observer:

Telegraph Operators would chat to each other during slow/off hours.  Thereby creating the first "online" community.  This culminated in a marriage between two operators from opposite coasts who worked for Western Union.  The company paid for train tickets for the couple to meet and I believe left a cash gift at the wedding.

Is today so different?