where to get gears/best tools for working with brass?

[arklan]

so, hi. i'm new here.

i'm just wonering.. .where do you guys find all those wonderful little gears orvarious style and size? i've had nothing but horendous trouble in this area. i simply can't seem to track any down.

i was also wondering what the best tools, namely not power tools (aside fro ma dremel, of course. ) one would suggest for working with brass, as well as a good place to procure said shinyness? i've sen small sheets and tube stock or varying sizes at hobby shops, but this is generally very expensive...

thanks guys.

[Prof. George of Chaos]

Hmmm...being likewise new I will of course defer to more experienced makers in this, but what I've gleaned thus far suggests that searching through op shops and scrap yield wonderful things to repurpose, and hobby shops are rather alright for certain tools for detail work. Tiny files, for example. The tools section of my local hardware store holds my covetuous gaze as we speak.

[Great Bizarro]

Ebay, search for clock parts, antique

[Crowe Bashford]

I agree, Ebay is the way to go.  Unfortunately we are entering an age where many of the great watch makers are retiring or passing away and their watch making tools and stock of parts are being auctioned off.  I bought a huge box of watch movements (partial and broken) and spare parts a few months ago for a really affordable price.  I also buy brass metal (small sheets of varying thickness, tiny square tubes, thin rods, and tiny brass pipe) at my local True Value Hardware store.  Small local hardware stores have much better material than the giant superstore hardwares.  I also recommend any hobby store that sells model trains, they will have all sorts of great raw materials.

[clockdug]

I would advise caution as to the Ebay route for clock movements, as the prices are often ludicrous.  Many here have suggested befriending a local clock repairman.  There are always lots of worthless clock movements from cuckoos and korean 31 day movements lying about a clock shop, and may well be cheap or free.

Check to see if there is a local chapter of the National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors in your area at nawcc.org.  Also look to see if any of the regional gatherings happen in your area.  Imagine a football stadium full of antique clocks, tools and parts and you have an idea of the national....

As to online dealers, 2 spring to mind:
www.timesavers.com
www.merritts.com

BTW, check Merritts listing of closeout items.  Repairman's specials as low as $12.50!  These are complete clock movements that have been removed and replaced rather than serviced.  That's a common repair technique for Hermle movements due to the fact that Hermle is considered a synonym for "cost more to repair than replace".  Especially those movements from the '70's that had pinions made of soft steel plated with nickel.  You can't polish the pivots without destroying the plating, and once the plating goes you have to replace the whole arbor....

[seetheduckie]

I'd definitly give your local clock repairperson a try.  I stopped in one day on my way home from work and was able to take a few cheap clock movements off his hands.  After about 15 minutes of unscrewing I had myself a couple baggies worth of tiny little gears, tiny little screws, and those beautiful metal plates that hold it all together (incidentally, what are those things called?).

[clockdug]

Your way off, the proper technical term for what you refer to is "plates".

A quickie lexicon:
The larger usually brass gears are called wheels. 
The smaller gears that are either steel or made like a little birdcage are called pinions.
The thing the gears are on is called an arbor; the skinny ends of the arbor that fit into the plates are pivots.
The entire run of wheels and pinions is called a train, and some clocks have more than one:  a time train, striking train and a chiming train.


Standard disclaimer for first time clock dis-assemblers:, If the movement is spring powered make sure the springs are let down before you start unscrewing anything.  For an 8-day clock that's about 9 feet of spring steel coiled into about 2.5 inches.  That's enough power to be worthy of respect, and can take fingers if you are stupid.  It's not any scarier than a blender or a lawn mower, I'm just saying you should read how to do it safely before you get the tools.

[arklan]

lots of good advice... thanks guys. i'm just worried i won't find anything whatsoever in the way of "local" clock repairmen, being in Los Angeles... if i'ts not bright, flashy and digital, it might as well not exsist to most people i know...

[Maurautius]

I've been successful at yard sales and estate sales. The trick is to pick up the clocks that are ticking. Most clocks these days and for the last few decades have been increasingly more quartz movement and the actual mechanism is small and useless for a project; a 14-inch wall clock sometimes has a plastic casing and the movement behind is just a plastic three-inch box with a AA battery. LAME! But a TICKING clock, however, has always yielded some pretty groovy little pieces for me inside and out, and I've never paid more than two to five dollars for one.

I'm mainly referring to alarm clocks and desk clocks...mantel and case clocks are much pricier. Although, it's still cheaper than new and I imagine sooner or later I'll break down and buy one to get into its lovely innards.

[Brass Alchemist]

...as well as a good place to procure said shinyness?

I am in the Navy and on my ship we have a lot of brass instruments that need to be shined up whenever an Admiral comes onboard. We a couple different products for this purpose. You can buy a bucket of a product called "Never-Dull" which are basically greasy little cotton balls that you use to rub on the brass in small concentric circles. This is good for quick touch-ups. For a more thorough shine job we use a product called "That Green Stuff" (I kid you not). It comes in what looks like a ketchup bottle. You squeeze the green stuff onto a rag, and once again, make small concentric circles. It is a very effective product; the more you use, the better the shine. Hope that helps.

[arklan]

indeed it does... as i have a brass zippo lighter in need of some cleaning...

but i was actually more referring to where to get the brass itself. i know, for example, i can get small sheets (say 6 inches by 12) of plastic for model building at a hobby shop, but i can get it ALOT cheaper from a industrial supplier in 4 foot by 8 foot sheets. saves loads of money. i was wondering if there were a commonly used place to accomplish a similiar thing for brass.

[Mad Maxine]

For some very handy tools, consider picking up a jeweler's saw and some blades (for very delicate dutting). Get a decent set of very small files (round, flat, pointed, triangular). A range of fine-grit sand papers will also come in handy. There are also several types of hand vise things out there where you pinch your metal parts in the vise, lock it in place, and then you hold the vise in your left hand while filing etc. with your right (unless you're a leftie). There's also a little jeweler's gizmo (can't remember the name - maybe a bench vise or bench pin) that is a little 3"x3" flat metal clamp with a wooden wedge that is used to brace metal on while cutting etc. 

Anyway, here's a great jeweler's supply place:

http://www.progresstool.com/cat_benches.cfm

[arklan]

thanks to my other hobby of building sci fo modesl from scratch, ive got some great files, loads of sanding supplies, and even a little table saw with a 3 inch circular blade. comes in handy, that. heh.

but thanks for the tips. i'll give the site a browse.

[clockdug]

There's also a little jeweler's gizmo (can't remember the name - maybe a bench vise or bench pin) that is a little 3"x3" flat metal clamp with a wooden wedge that is used to brace metal on while cutting etc.

I think that's called a piercing table.  This URL gives some nice instructions and pics of using a jeweler's saw with one.  As you can probably tell, it doesn't take much more than a scrap piece of board to make a simple one:
http://www.artsandcraftsmetalwork.com/c10a.php

Oh, and one type of file to look for that is both incredibly useful and difficult to find:  a barrette file.  It has teeth on only one side, so you can protect nearby surfaces when doing fine work.

Also, when using files a supply of chalk for while your using it and a suede brush for cleaning it out are very handy.  And remember, new files on steel; old files on brass.

[Brass Alchemist]

You know, it didn't even occur to me when I was writing my previous post that I was totally living up to my screen-name. I am, indeed, The Brass Alchemist. 

[arklan]

...what is this steel you speak of? i know it not!

and while i have a good bit of brushes to clena my files (plastic gets in the teeth like you can't imagine), i am, it seems, clueless on the use of chalk in filing.

so, am i right it thinking that basicalyl everyone gets thier gears secondhand from clock type stuff? are there no stores that carry a random selection, online perhaps, even of plastic? after all, it can be painted when one is in a pinch... and would be tremendously useful for quick prototyping.

i've seen some... but they are incredibly technical and seem directed firmly at the industrial market...

[clockdug]

Check those links I gave to Timesavers and Merritt's.  Both have various brass wheels for sale.  The downside is that they will cost more than buying one of their $12.50 movements and disassembling it.  BTW, even the repairman's specials that have springs are the safer version of springed clock movements, as Hermle movements all have the springs inside a barrel.  They should still have the springs let down so that you won't have the wheels of the clock spinnning at supersonic speed as you take the clock apart.  Many of the specials are weight driven grandfather movements, so there would be no springs at all to deal with.

Chalk is used to cut down on chatter as you file and also to slow down how quickly the teeth of the file clog.

[arklan]

...it seems i did not do a thorough enough perusal of the aforementioned links. i shall have to correct this error.

*five minutes later*

...right. anyone seen my wallet?

[Grandtinker Goriath]

A book I picked up for another of my interests (blacksmithing) is actually a FANTASTIC guide for all varieties of metalwork, it's called "The Complete Metalsmith"   by Tim McCreight, it's an amazing source of information on a variety of topics in working with metals (including in Alloying Metals). (Note I bought the Professional Edition, I don't know what the other version has in it)

[sidecar_jon]

look for "Non furiouser metal dealers" in the phone book, brass rods etc can be had much cheaper than a model shop...much much cheaper! Beware buy to many expensive tools, you probably wont use half of them. Start with a hammer and file and a hacksaw (and a wire brush for cleaning out the file)

[Prof. Brockworth]

Good point about the brush: soft alloys like brass and aluminium clog files very rapidly.  I trust you meant non-ferrous, not non-furious? 

[sidecar_jon]

  I trust you meant non-ferrous, not non-furious? 

I probably do...but with my spelling ...who knows! lol

[clockdug]

Chalking the file may help slow clogging some.  Also, old files are better for soft metals.  The teeth on new files are sharper and rip the metal out more, so you may get better results with less clogging by using an older file.   By virtue of being kinder on the metal it may also help keep the metal from becoming furious.

And as to steel, it's that metal that turns all manner of lovely blue when you heat it to the right temperature.  As does your language when you pick up said hot metal in a fit of stupidity.

[arklan]

ooo... i like blue.

[KatarinaNavane]

I've been spending a lot of time scouring antique malls lately.  If you don't mind spending some time searching (which since there's usually a great quantity of amusing items to peruse is actually quite entertaining) you can find wind-up alarm clocks for reasonable prices.