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Author Topic: Water hammer steam turbine!  (Read 3940 times)
Mad Maxine
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« on: August 24, 2007, 03:22:44 am »

How amazing is this?!! Could it be a potentially endless source of steam? Over unity! Holy bleep! Other neat stuff in other videos at this link...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw
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Lord Croker
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« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2007, 05:01:23 am »

Sounds like bollocks. Whats it powered by, Sir Isaac Newton spinning in his grave?

Charlie
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Commander Obadiah
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2007, 05:10:52 am »

Impossible. Even to a steampunk enthusiast, this is impossible. There is no way possible to have a greater than 100% efficiency output. You can never create energy, merely move it around, and what this engine purports to do is to create energy. Whatever next, shall I disobey the laws of kinetics and halt my progress through space without external forces acting upon me?
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Sir Theodore Catchpole
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« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2007, 05:23:18 am »

did you know that i like steam
oh and what about this a magnet motor how dose that work then???
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Lurker
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2007, 05:35:28 am »

Since I don't have sound yet, I have no idea as to whats being said on the picture. I think this might be a good thing since it allows me to ponder this device. It seems plausible (never reject anything until all possible issues are resolved), but the way it's shown being setup on the film doesn't look right. It's like we're not being shown something.

Well I found the e-address to this device:
http://guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/index.html

Since I don't have the time right now I'll invite you all to examine it for your self. I think it's all fu-fu, but thats just me. That generator thing could be a motor for all we know. (remember the tennis ball lock pick?) Yeah something doesn't seem right with the pictures we can pull up on this.

*Oop's. Here's a more direct link:
http://guns.connect.fi/innoplaza/energy/story/Kanarev/energygenerators/index.html
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 05:39:53 am by Lurker » Logged
Gaslight Phantom
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2007, 06:20:57 am »

I had no idea what overunity was until five minutes ago. Now I find that not only can you apparently create steam engines that demonstrate it, but also apparently create hydrogen using some wacked-out electrolysis that also demonstrates it...



So, uh, does anyone else desperately want to purloin one of each of these machines, and build an impossible zeppelin?  Shocked
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Mad Maxine
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2007, 06:34:24 am »

Regarding the turbine:

It appears that they do have to put some energy into the system to inject water into the device around the perimeter of the internal cylinder. Something about the conformation of the cylinder, with its holes, etc. causes the water hammer effect, which is simply friction.

It's just like the thumping noise my pipes make when I turn off the water too fast. In the case of my pipes, some day they will likely fail from the repeated hammering.

In the case of the turbine, it is designed to handle constant hammering (friction) and turn it into heat, which makes great sense to me. I'm not sure how they could possibly get more energy out of the system than they put in, but I do believe that the turbine is capable of creating heat through friction. I wish I was an engineer.

Regarding the magnetic "motor":

Seems to me that it's really just a cleverly placed array of magnets. It does require some energy to get the spin going. The trick would be to alleviate the friction on the axle and on the spinning surface of the cylinder enough so that it would continue to spin unaided.

Regarding the Joe Cells:

These are still a mystery to me. They look like an electrolytic reaction. Maybe there's something more going on than gas generation, but it's not well explained. I don't understand how one would hook it to a combustion engine and make the engine run better. They allude to it, but don't give details. Maybe on the throttle body?

Regarding the elemental rods:

This one really has me baffled. 74 vs 75 elements creates an ionic charge. Why 74 and 75? What are the elements? How are the rods made? How can the ionic charge be enough to generate an electrical current sufficient to light 110V Christmas tree lights? Very interesting. Very Tesla. I wish I could see it in person.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2007, 06:37:05 am by Mad Maxine » Logged
Charleson Mambo
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2007, 07:40:28 am »

How amazing is this?!! Could it be a potentially endless source of steam? Over unity! Holy bleep! Other neat stuff in other videos at this link...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw




So basically a pump hooked up in a closed circuit. They use an electric motor to spin a turbine which imparts kinetic energy to the water. The water heats up, from friction most likely, and turns to steam. An interesting, fireless, water heater.

As for the "overunity" bit, it's probably faulty measuring (either instruments or methodology), although, ahem, a bit of "marketing hyperbole" can't be entirely ruled out.


Charleson Mambo
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Alastair Smythe
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2007, 08:09:21 am »

For them to actually prove it works, they need to get the energy output and put it back into input, then show us how long the engine can run and generate power wtihout any external input.
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NazT
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« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2007, 08:19:34 am »

I'd have thought that if it was that good then they would have shown it being powered by a motor that is powered by a battery that is charged by the steam produced by the system...
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NazT
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« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2007, 08:21:50 am »

Oh my...
For them to actually prove it works, they need to get the energy output and put it back into input, then show us how long the engine can run and generate power wtihout any external input.
... ditto...  Grin
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Doctor When
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« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2007, 09:48:37 am »

Overunity, eh? I read about some sort of atonic hydrogen process a while back that yielded more energy then it took to produce... I must read that article again.

Did you see this link?



Now, if that's true, that's very interesting indeed... But I'm suprised some shadowy organisation hasn't had him killed yet.
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IvanDrugostrov
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2007, 11:53:14 am »

Overunity, eh? I read about some sort of atonic hydrogen process a while back that yielded more energy then it took to produce... I must read that article again.

Did you see this link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO15VGtKZo0&NR=1

Now, if that's true, that's very interesting indeed... But I'm suprised some shadowy organisation hasn't had him killed yet.


If this is true, the future will become more Steampunk than I could have hoped!
Huzzah!
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Great Bizarro
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2007, 01:09:24 pm »

What happened to cold fusion?
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Duncan Hawthorne
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2007, 02:23:09 pm »

It sounds like bosh, but I am not a big fan of saying something's impossible - after all, heavier than air flight, nuclear fission, and many other things were once impossible.  As to the electrolysis video, I will say that I am familliar with Battelle labs in Columbus, OH and it's filled with a lot of very smart people (I know a couple) and they've been behind a number of crazy patents, so that makes me think it's not total bunk.  One can hope so, anyway.  The whole "water car" is a pretty old scam though too, so I will be skeptical yet slightly optimistic.
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HAC
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« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2007, 04:37:08 pm »

Unless those folks have found a way to avoid the basic laws of physics, that steam gadget is a clever attempt to prove something thats impossible.  Way back when, (possibly when dinosaurs roamed, and I had hair), in my university thermodynamics courses, there was always a section on why overunity, or perpetual motion engines were impossible. You can't create energy, you can only convert it from one form to another.
 Physics math aside, there are lots of other little problems there. No accounting for frictional and heat losses (unless their metal doesn't absorb or conduct heat, no heat engine is loseless), as well as the fact that whan you add water to a steam generation system, the heat required to bring that new water up to teperature, and then convert to steam is higher than the existing heat in the system (boiler shock), and must be overcome, That can be lessened with feedwater heat.
 I'll have to say that this was a nice try, but no cigar...

Cheers
Harold
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Outa_Spaceman
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« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2007, 04:47:24 pm »

After watching the vid I suddenly found that I could lick my elbows...
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ignoti
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« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2007, 05:05:37 pm »

I just tested, and I can too!
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Dr. Redmoon
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« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2007, 05:30:32 pm »

You know its fake when they plug the Perpetual Motion device into an electrical socket  Tongue
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Prof. Brockworth
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« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2007, 07:05:32 pm »

I wonder if the error comes from failing to consider the input water pressure?

Hell of a spiffy steam generator though.  I want to hook one to a windmill!
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Outa_Spaceman
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« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2007, 07:13:47 pm »

So how much energy does the device produce in reality I wonder?
Is the principle worthy of consideration?
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HAC
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« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2007, 07:28:19 pm »

There are faster and easier ways to produce steam at a higher temp and pressure (hence more useable as a power source).. Steam technology has been around long enough to have matured nicely..
I'd say its another one of those "send us your money" schemes...
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Mad Maxine
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2007, 02:44:08 am »

Overunity, eh? I read about some sort of atonic hydrogen process a while back that yielded more energy then it took to produce... I must read that article again.

Did you see this link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO15VGtKZo0&NR=1

Now, if that's true, that's very interesting indeed... But I'm suprised some shadowy organisation hasn't had him killed yet.


That guy must be using a series of Joe Cells! Thanks for finding that video clip.

I'm not saying that this stuff works, but to all those skeptics, please remember that everyone thought Tesla was crazy, and that plate tectonics was a farce. And now look where we are. It's time for us to exceed the technological plateau we're stuck on. These may be the very types of scientific thinkers needed to achieve that goal.
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HAC
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2007, 03:53:25 am »

Overunity, eh? I read about some sort of atonic hydrogen process a while back that yielded more energy then it took to produce... I must read that article again.

Did you see this link?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO15VGtKZo0&NR=1

Now, if that's true, that's very interesting indeed... But I'm suprised some shadowy organisation hasn't had him killed yet.


That guy must be using a series of Joe Cells! Thanks for finding that video clip.

I'm not saying that this stuff works, but to all those skeptics, please remember that everyone thought Tesla was crazy, and that plate tectonics was a farce. And now look where we are. It's time for us to exceed the technological plateau we're stuck on. These may be the very types of scientific thinkers needed to achieve that goal.


Sure, but remember that we are a far bit better versed in understanding how the universe works now than we were back in the early days. Its going to be a lot harder to have a major breakthrough nowadays. This overunity srtuff has been kicking around for a long time, it  resurfaces periodically... My reply to it is that old saw....  TANSTAFFL....
(BTW...Tesla was quite possibly a bit crazy, at least in the mental illness sense...he counted things compulsively, calculated the volumes of bowls and cups before he could eat from them; his assorted phobias and fetishes perhaps denied him any close relationships. He wrote of recurrent visual sensations, bright and geometric, which occasionally overwhelmed his sight, actually blotting out scenes in front of him.)

Cheers
Harold
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Mad Maxine
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« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2007, 05:53:33 am »

The best geniuses and artists are not typically sane or socially adapted. But that's not such a bad thing.
Wink
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