Are you unhappy with the modern world?

[ValancyJane]

For everything great today and bad back then, my great-great-grandparents coming from Ireland could never have gotten a piece of land today.   

That's a slippery slope of a comparison.  Yes, they couldn't just come over and grab a piece of land today, but would that they want to?  I know Ireland like the rest of the world is in a bit financial pickle, but I'm guessing its not as bad as famine that prompted many families to come here in the 1800's.  And as I understand it, up until a few years ago, Ireland had a thriving economy due to tech boom.

Or if you want to look it another way, yes my ancestors greatly benefited from the wealth of land to settle too, but I bet they would have also been happy to not have had to deal with the Battle of the River Raisin during the Battle of 1812 too.

[rhylla]

for all the benefits of living in a western country: most of us having enough to eat, clothing, and some kind of roof over our head, plus all the gizmos and gadgets that are around, what I find hard is the seeming apathy about the world around us a little hard to take.
I work in a primary school and have done for the last 11 years. even in this short time I have seen, year by year, a decrease in the "awe and wonder" that we are try to encourage. more and more kids seem to shrug their shoulders with a "so?" attitude that's a little soul destroying. maybe it was no better way back when, but the children in the area I live and work in just don't seem interested in anything.

Do we have too much? Do we spend too much time in front of screens of various sorts and therefore, not venture out? Health and Safety - has that killed a sense of adventure?
were things any better, really, in the past?

-Rhylla-

[D.Oakes]

Rhylla, you may have actually hit the mark.

Think about this, we live in a world where death is kept hidden.  We have lost the sense of our own mortality.  Because my word, there is a chance to survive just about anything, why not death itself.  Look at the art that came out of the world before the 1950's.  There was death and doom on a huge level, but that said there was life and joy on a huge level.  Creativity and work ethic suffer when you think you have forever. 

Technology and creativity, I remember being a little kid, no computer, but knowing of them.  I would sit and draw these devices of the future that you could type on and play music on and be able to call people from.  I imagined them being the size of a briefcase.  So here I am using this thing I could tuck into small bag with a smaller one that can do almost as much is in my pocket.  Side bar: I wonder if that is what steampunk does?  It brings us back to a time that we can imagine the future. 

With the economy the way it is and no escape to run off to the frontier and build a homestead, what can we hope for?  Our lives have no meaning at all.  We go to work and make money and buy stuff and make children that will go to work make money and buy stuff.  On every level of society, that is what we do.  A bohemian could run off to the city and screw up and still be able to come home to the family farm and live.  Furthermore, the bohemian could screw up his health and still be able to get into the military.  We can't even do that anymore.  To get to the frontier it once was a horrible ride in a boat or it was on foot or wagon.  It did not really cost that much, it was just a matter of, "do you have the guts to do it?"  Now we need to either have a massive amount of money or a massive amount of training which takes a massive amount of money.  (space, bottom of the ocean)  Now there are more rules too.  Say I wanted to go to a jungle.  Well I can't just pack up the Martini-Henry and go off to Africa. 

If you aren't happy with where you are, you can't just leave.  What we are left with is a ton of people who are stuck.  In any other time, they would have ran off to some far corner of the world and start fresh.  We can't do that anymore.  All of this civilization has us stuck.  To perfectly honest, I'd be one of those people who'd just get up and go.  I'm not happy where I am.  I'm not happy with the "what I could be."  I love doing art, I love making music, but I'd rather be able to build my own house with my own hands (which you can't do many places because not only is there no land to do it or it is too expensive, but there are too many safety regulations and zoning) and plant my own food and raise my own animals and do a job that I can see.  If not that, a mom and pop store somewhere, but they fail today.  They fail today because you can sit there and use your high tech device and buy things from anywhere in the world or go to the big store and pay a cheap price for something that although it is not as good, is still okay. 

Instead here I am stuck in the shadow of nuclear power plant watching people I care about die of cancer.  My mom actually died quicker because the radiation had a side effect which swelled her brain.  She would have been much better off with NO medical care.  And besides, there are treatments out there which seem to work better, but we didn't have the money for them.  Plus she could have been able to get early warning if she had the money for yearly check ups.  But of course being an EMT who saves people's lives, they don't need that much money. 

To each his or her own.  I'd much rather live a hard productive life where I could see the fruits of my labor than die a horrible death in a life I don't want.   

[HR]

There is a big difference between a "hard productive life" and the grinding poverty that most of the poor endured in the past.
I think you hanker after the 60s commune life rather than life in an earlier age.

[D.Oakes]

There is a big difference between a "hard productive life" and the grinding poverty that most of the poor endured in the past.
I think you hanker after the 60s commune life rather than life in an earlier age.

A farm and a commune are two very different things.  Communes got destroyed by human nature, farms got destroyed...well by human nature, but from the top down.  Hippy communes destroy themselves, farms get destroyed the same reason mom and pop stores get destroyed.  

And yes I am a bit bitter because my family's land is now turning into a housing developement.  Poor farmers from Ireland, over the generations move, but remain farmers and then boom, gone.  

As for grinding poverty.  Hmmm, I just bought a computer with the life insurance money.  Wow...let me tell you, I see plenty people "worse" off than me walking around in brand new Nikes and using the latest IPhones.  I was buying clothes at the thrift store long before I heard of steampunk.  And to think...my family once owned the land they built their house on.  

Oh and the question of, "Could you handle watching most of your family die?"  Yeah...I can...because I did...hello, I'm my immediate family.  My mom always wanted me to follow my dreams, so I am taking the life insurance money, paying off my rent for a couple months and I'm going to give it the go.  If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.  I have worked enough in a variety of jobs over the years that I am quite hirable.

[Wormster]

We have a lot to be thankful for right now - relative world peace, (OK there are a few "minor" conflicts around the world, killing brave soldiers), lots of technology that makes communicating with far flung loved ones and friends easy, a transport system that takes hours and minutes instead of days and weeks, wonder drugs that can combat most diseases and many other "conveniences" that we take for granted.

I tolerate the society we live in with all of its foibles and fripperies, I choose who I associate with and the activities I participate in. 90% of things happen and pass me by - I think its called a "Bullshine Detector"

I would not want to return to an earlier age, where poverty, infant mortality, injustice etc were rife! I'm only just scraping myself off the bottom of the poverty line, in a earlier age, one of my children would have certainly died in infancy and I would be in debtors prison!

[rhylla]

oh, trust me, i would not want to have been born even 50 years ago... as i mentioned in an earlier post, i and my son survived me having peritonitis and appendicectomy when i was 7 months pregnant - not something that would have happened in the past.
i just feel slight despair when people don't seem to be interested in the world around them. Maybe that's what appeals to me about Steampunk, the explorer, scientist, adventurer-type mind-set of "ooooo look at that" and "i wonder what would happen if i did..." or even "why does that do that?"

maybe i've just had a bad week, but it's a celebratory time when you find a kid who wants to know why?
though i do love the little spark behind the eyes when they finally tune into me babbling on about whatever it is we're talking about.

[Ulysses Reynolds]

Rhylla, you may have actually hit the mark.

Think about this, we live in a world where death is kept hidden.  We have lost the sense of our own mortality.  Because my word, there is a chance to survive just about anything, why not death itself.  Look at the art that came out of the world before the 1950's.  There was death and doom on a huge level, but that said there was life and joy on a huge level.  Creativity and work ethic suffer when you think you have forever. 

Technology and creativity, I remember being a little kid, no computer, but knowing of them.  I would sit and draw these devices of the future that you could type on and play music on and be able to call people from.  I imagined them being the size of a briefcase.  So here I am using this thing I could tuck into small bag with a smaller one that can do almost as much is in my pocket.  Side bar: I wonder if that is what steampunk does?  It brings us back to a time that we can imagine the future. 

With the economy the way it is and no escape to run off to the frontier and build a homestead, what can we hope for?  Our lives have no meaning at all.  We go to work and make money and buy stuff and make children that will go to work make money and buy stuff.  On every level of society, that is what we do.  A bohemian could run off to the city and screw up and still be able to come home to the family farm and live.  Furthermore, the bohemian could screw up his health and still be able to get into the military.  We can't even do that anymore.  To get to the frontier it once was a horrible ride in a boat or it was on foot or wagon.  It did not really cost that much, it was just a matter of, "do you have the guts to do it?"  Now we need to either have a massive amount of money or a massive amount of training which takes a massive amount of money.  (space, bottom of the ocean)  Now there are more rules too.  Say I wanted to go to a jungle.  Well I can't just pack up the Martini-Henry and go off to Africa. 

If you aren't happy with where you are, you can't just leave.  What we are left with is a ton of people who are stuck.  In any other time, they would have ran off to some far corner of the world and start fresh.  We can't do that anymore.  All of this civilization has us stuck.  To perfectly honest, I'd be one of those people who'd just get up and go.  I'm not happy where I am.  I'm not happy with the "what I could be."  I love doing art, I love making music, but I'd rather be able to build my own house with my own hands (which you can't do many places because not only is there no land to do it or it is too expensive, but there are too many safety regulations and zoning) and plant my own food and raise my own animals and do a job that I can see.  If not that, a mom and pop store somewhere, but they fail today.  They fail today because you can sit there and use your high tech device and buy things from anywhere in the world or go to the big store and pay a cheap price for something that although it is not as good, is still okay. 

Instead here I am stuck in the shadow of nuclear power plant watching people I care about die of cancer.  My mom actually died quicker because the radiation had a side effect which swelled her brain.  She would have been much better off with NO medical care.  And besides, there are treatments out there which seem to work better, but we didn't have the money for them.  Plus she could have been able to get early warning if she had the money for yearly check ups.  But of course being an EMT who saves people's lives, they don't need that much money. 

To each his or her own.  I'd much rather live a hard productive life where I could see the fruits of my labor than die a horrible death in a life I don't want.   

I have to agree with D. Oakes on this one, given the chance, once I acquire the right skills I'm heading as far off the grid (at least as far off as I think) as possible. I'm gong to Australia, I'll save up my money, bring the essentials, and build a house somewhere in the outback and I'll enjoy it. Relatively clean air and water. The ability to survive off what I can grow, to me it seems like a pretty good life.

[rhylla]

hmmm maybe we feel a bit out of control these days... too many rules and regulations? not really able to launch out on anything without filling out forms in triplicate! ... so do we then give up and just go with the flow?

-Rhylla-

[D.Oakes]

hmmm maybe we feel a bit out of control these days... too many rules and regulations? not really able to launch out on anything without filling out forms in triplicate! ... so do we then give up and just go with the flow?

-Rhylla-

My 61 year old friend did that most of his life.  (past 2 years he has become an artistic photographer)  If you ask him, going with the flow is the worst thing you can ever do if it is not what you want to do.  We only get one life, we can't regret every moment of it.  He had a bit of a scare last week, turned out it was fine, but he said, "You know, I finally just started living, I'm not ready to die yet." 

Ulysses, I like that idea.  My goal is by the time I am 40 to have enough money saved up to buy a nice plot of land somewhere and farm again.  Probably can't do it for money, but I'm hoping to be self-employed in other areas so that I can still be self-sufficient by modern standards. 

[Arabella Periscope]

We don't kep the best of the past, because we have a hard time pointing out the good in the present, without immediately seeing some obvious ways it could be improved. Hence, the best of the past could not be 'kept', but merely retro-actively reinstated.

To "retro-actively reinstate the past" sounds like a good motto for Steampunk people, though 'selectively' would have to be added.  Difficult to do, as a minority, and the present is so noisy . . . but there is a whole lot of good in it when you look at it through the right pair of goggles or from under the right hat!

[MechanicalMouse]

My heart felt sympathies to D. Oakes in his loss and the manner in which it happened. I'm very grateful to be in England with our NHS. Yes sometimes its slow, and sometimes mistakes happen, but on the whole it is an amazing institution and a beacon of the best the modern age can offer.

Previous posters have hit the nail on the head when talking about the lack of Awe in the world. I m amazed and sometime scared of the level of human achievement.  Driving to Lincoln on a massive new road being built, I was awestruck by the scale of the work, while most would have been complaining  of the 50mph speed limit.

My main grumbles with this world are the artificial mechanisms that hold our society together. They've evolved over centuries, often with those who have vested interest controlling the outcome. But you can't just scrap and replace them with out massive chaos, so they continue to change and evolve still guided by those who should not have any say.

A good examples are copyright, patents and intellectual property. All have had their terms and scope increased to protect the profit of a few. Companies can sit on patents waiting for someone else to do the hard work and realised the idea, A picture or song created over half a century ago can still require royalties to be paid.

[D.Oakes]

My heart felt sympathies to D. Oakes in his loss and the manner in which it happened. I'm very grateful to be in England with our NHS. Yes sometimes its slow, and sometimes mistakes happen, but on the whole it is an amazing institution and a beacon of the best the modern age can offer.

Hoping I don't stir up the American debate...I am very much in favor of that idea.  The plan that Americans are ranting about basically uses the current system but makes insurance mandatory.  If you don't have it you'll be fined.  The problem is people can't even afford it now and the insurance that they can afford does not cover a whole lot.  My cousin was starting to go blind.  He was diagnosed with diabetes at a young age and is physically fit and brings in a good income.  He needed a surgery or he would loose his sight.  He's a father of 4 and does his best to be in his kids lives, coaching their teams and working.  He had to pay for it out of pocket because according to the insurance company it's cosmetic.  So there, that is a good example among others of why I am fatalistic.  Pay $200 for getting treated for the flu or wait until it passes the old fashioned way and use that $200 to eat better so you don't get something else.  Those are the choices people are having to make and many just go without like my mom did.  I have only needed to go to the hospital once in the past 3 years when I almost died from a absess in my throat.  It was a simple surgery, the first hospital messed it up, the last one did it right.  Did you know that the outsourced specialist in the hospital that did it right cost less than the ding bat that did it wrong and sent a needle through the back of my mouth?  I made up my mind that if it reoccurs, I'm taking my pocket knife and just doing it. 

[Evelyn Adler]

I would not want to live in the past, but I'm not happy with this modern world either.

I dream of a world, where things are made to endure, with care and consideration. I dream of a world, where values, ethics and morals exist to make relations between people more meaningful and to help establish a community, instead of just reigning them in to better control them. I want a world where ideas, spirit, aestetics, dedication, love, music, art... etc. count and not everything is judged by its monetary value alone.

What else should I be, than a Steampunk?

[rhylla]

boy has this thread got me thinking!

one other thing my hubby and i were talking about today was the fact that, in the UK anyway, how many people have to struggle to achieve anything? many of us don't usually have a struggle to survive, or to grow food, or even to make things like clothes or household goods. we have so many time saving machines that we don't even need to work hard to clean or cook. does this lack of effort and even struggle lead to a laziness/apathy of attitude too?
do we actually need a bit of a struggle, in the same way that saving up for months to buy something leads to a greater satisfaction than just being handed it on a plate?

-Rhylla-

[D.Oakes]

boy has this thread got me thinking!

one other thing my hubby and i were talking about today was the fact that, in the UK anyway, how many people have to struggle to achieve anything? many of us don't usually have a struggle to survive, or to grow food, or even to make things like clothes or household goods. we have so many time saving machines that we don't even need to work hard to clean or cook. does this lack of effort and even struggle lead to a laziness/apathy of attitude too?
do we actually need a bit of a struggle, in the same way that saving up for months to buy something leads to a greater satisfaction than just being handed it on a plate?

-Rhylla-

The one thing you guys have that I want is the healthcare system. That said you feel real pride when you grow food in your backyard on a whim, but you end up living off of it for awhile because the electric rate went up or somebody got sick.  Having lived through really bad times, I almost feel "happy" that I did.  Angry that it had to be that way, but to live it and survive it, that is worth more than what money can ever buy.  That said, if/when I have kids, I don't want them to have to know that.  I want them to know the value of hard work, but not "survival."   

[Vorpal Bandersnatch]

I think the world is currently much better in many ways than it has historically been, but I feel like the values and ethics of previous ages are sorely lacking in this one.

The Victorian era wasn't perfect, but it hadn't sold its soul to the highest bidder, and it had hope and purpose. I think the best world would be one where we took our modern capabilities and molded them around the sensibilities and work ethic that previous eras had in abundance.

[HR]

Human nature has not changed, decadence and apathy were something that plagued Rome. Do you feel better if you achieve things? Yes, of course. I would say it probably makes you a better person (I feel it does me). Every generation wants to make it better for their kids, but eventually that becomes counterproductive, as we now see. without struggle you can't appreciate the good times, I absolutely agree with that. There are things about the world in which we live that I don't like. I too would like to be able to find a piece of land and build my own place, but its not going to happen. Life is compromise, sad but true. Would I like the world to be different? Yes, but then I would like to be slim, good looking over 6', hung like a donkey and obscenely rich too!
Life is precious and too short, don't waste it hankering after a fantasy. Having said that, we must all dream.

[D.Oakes]

Human nature has not changed, decadence and apathy were something that plagued Rome. Do you feel better if you achieve things? Yes, of course. I would say it probably makes you a better person (I feel it does me). Every generation wants to make it better for their kids, but eventually that becomes counterproductive, as we now see. without struggle you can't appreciate the good times, I absolutely agree with that. There are things about the world in which we live that I don't like. I too would like to be able to find a piece of land and build my own place, but its not going to happen. Life is compromise, sad but true. Would I like the world to be different? Yes, but then I would like to be slim, good looking over 6', hung like a donkey and obscenely rich too!
Life is precious and too short, don't waste it hankering after a fantasy. Having said that, we must all dream.

I wish this, but at the same time, I do not because I consider you all even when I disagree with you, to be my friends.  Imagine from the UK, not being able to go to the doctor, because you cannot afford it.  At least the Victorians had strong sense of charity, even when it was misguided, at least they had the heart for it. 

[HR]

I wish this, but at the same time, I do not because I consider you all even when I disagree with you, to be my friends.  Imagine from the UK, not being able to go to the doctor, because you cannot afford it.  At least the Victorians had strong sense of charity, even when it was misguided, at least they had the heart for it. 
[/quote]
My friends disagree with me all the time
SOME Victorians had a strong sense of charity. Many others were more than happy to exploit the poor, some even felt it was their right. 
I find it difficult to express my sympathy for you without lapsing into platitudes. It does make me appreciate what we have here all the more. Having lost both my parents too (I am considerably older than you , so only to be expected) I sympathise. At least I have siblings (bloody hundreds of them!).

[D.Oakes]

I wish this, but at the same time, I do not because I consider you all even when I disagree with you, to be my friends.  Imagine from the UK, not being able to go to the doctor, because you cannot afford it.  At least the Victorians had strong sense of charity, even when it was misguided, at least they had the heart for it. 

My friends disagree with me all the time
SOME Victorians had a strong sense of charity. Many others were more than happy to exploit the poor, some even felt it was their right. 
I find it difficult to express my sympathy for you without lapsing into platitudes. It does make me appreciate what we have here all the more. Having lost both my parents too (I am considerably older than you , so only to be expected) I sympathise. At least I have siblings (bloody hundreds of them!).
[/quote]

My great-grandfather, Irish of course, haha, was one of 16 who made it out of 23.  Victorian era-1920's. 

[rhylla]

oh, though we complain about the NHS, and people do!, i'm very grateful it's there!

-Rhylla-

[inigo jameson-gatling]

For all its faults I would stay here although I am unhappy with the modern world. There does seem to be a lot of rights but no responsibilities. Of course living in another time period would be just dandy if one was lucky and had financial resource ample enough; but to live as a working person at any level would be harsh.

There are many advantages to the modern world, like healthcare (in all its available forms) and improved railways (for those of you that have them) but I would definately prefer a rose tinted mid-Victorian environment where I was sufficiently affluent to be able to tinker.

[Vagabond GentleMan]

No really...in every time period there were those who were TRULY convinced that some by-gone era was better...was the 'one for them'.  It's malarky.  It's romantic malarky.

If you lived 'back then' there would have been a time even farther 'back then' that was even better!

I walk down the street every day and see fat beggars.  Fat. Bloody. Beggars.
If you're crazy and homeless and still look like the Royalty of 500 years ago?  Yer era is alright, provided you live in the 'right' nation.

This 'woe is me, the modern world is so lacking' stuff is romantic at best, spoiled at worst.

You have food in your belly?  You have a roof over your head?  You have...uh...like a metric ton of luxury items you don't need JUST because they make life easier or bring you some sort of transient pleasure?  You have friends?  You have health?
You're dead straight, my beloved.

Look, there are an incalculable number of times I've felt like: "I'd rather have been born in ANY era other than the present one..."
But my ADULT mind says:

Quit yer damned bellyaching; that nonsense is weak.  Your life is easy, the fact that you have time to sit in front of a computer in your armchair and make your voice heard round the world regarding your dissatisfaction rather than scrambling to fill your aching gut is testament to that fact, and you have the potential to make it even better through exercise of Will.  So Man up, or shut up.

Times change.  People don't.  If you have a problem with the 'modern world', it says nothing about the modern world...it says something about YOU. 
So don't just stand there and shout it.  Do something about it.

[delCano]

We are the children of our time, like it or not. It's the world we live in (well, actually, the one we grew in) that's shaped us, even our dislikes for it, and we probably couldn't live in any other time. We can adapt - slowly - to changes, less and less while we grow old (that's why many elders have issues with modernity - although not all), but we could not adapt easily to a brutal change of times.
Many expatriates have big issues to adapt to their new culture, and they end up forming ghettos. They are deep differences between Chinese and Arabic cultures, even between western European and US mindsets; I can't even begin to imagine the shock of trying to fit in another century.

However, all this does not mean this is a perfect world I am happy with. I am to cynic to still believe I will change it, but I will still try, because it's really easier to make changes to the world I am the child of, than to create a world that I don't belong to and feel good in it.

PS: My prose seems to be really rusty, the post here does not really conveys what I wanted. Close, still.