Are you unhappy with the modern world?

[54metalman]

We'd be unhappy in any time really methinks...

Seriously. I've convinced myself that I'd still have the desire to go back in time, even if I was living in the 19th century. I did completely dissociate myself from the modern world one year...it was tons of fun.

How and what did you do to dissociate from the moderm world? I am interested in how well you were able to do this.

[PennyDreadful65]

We'd be unhappy in any time really methinks...

Seriously. I've convinced myself that I'd still have the desire to go back in time, even if I was living in the 19th century. I did completely dissociate myself from the modern world one year...it was tons of fun.

How and what did you do to dissociate from the moderm world? I am interested in how well you were able to do this.

I didn't watch t.v. or listen to any modern music. I couldn't pull myself away from the internet, but most of my time on here was spent googling anything and everything about random decades/trying to find old songs I'd heard as a kid but forgotten about. I became obsessed with the 70s, bought a record player, raided my grandmother's closet, etc. It sort of seemed as if I was living in a 60s/70s/80s/90s weird hybrid...decade thing. I had no knowledge of current events, I didn't watch any awards shows, I had no idea what shows were on television or anything like that...I was just in my own little world. I'm sure that one could do this with any decade or time period. All you have to do is shut yourself out from the modern world. It was strange. It felt similar to how things used to feel when I was a kid. Like when I think about the 90s, there's this nice sense of "the good ol' days" and that's what I lived for about a year. It truly felt as if I'd gone back in time.

But I also felt like I'd lost a lot of time. It was a period of reflection. It was the worst (I was dissociating for a reason) and best time of my life.

[54metalman]

I can understand that. I myself have not had TV or a basic radio for almost a year now. I do have the internet and my cell phone for customer contact. I do have friends that tell me things as such but really i am stuck in about 1920. I build  pre 1916 reproduction motorcycles and parts as well as restore them. I listen to blues and jazz from mainly pre 1960.

It is easy to do if a person really wants to. I congraduate you on your efforts.

[Hez]

I didn't watch t.v. or listen to any modern music. I couldn't pull myself away from the internet, but most of my time on here was spent googling anything and everything about random decades/trying to find old songs I'd heard as a kid but forgotten about. I became obsessed with the 70s, bought a record player, raided my grandmother's closet, etc. It sort of seemed as if I was living in a 60s/70s/80s/90s weird hybrid...decade thing. I had no knowledge of current events, I didn't watch any awards shows, I had no idea what shows were on television or anything like that...I was just in my own little world. I'm sure that one could do this with any decade or time period. All you have to do is shut yourself out from the modern world. It was strange. It felt similar to how things used to feel when I was a kid. Like when I think about the 90s, there's this nice sense of "the good ol' days" and that's what I lived for about a year. It truly felt as if I'd gone back in time.

But I also felt like I'd lost a lot of time. It was a period of reflection. It was the worst (I was dissociating for a reason) and best time of my life.

herhumph
the 70's and 80's were not "back in time" they were yesterday.

ooops, dating myself, forget I said anything.

[Professor_Lady_Hope]

If i could, I'd run away.

I think the people of this place and time, at least where I'm from, are far too moralistic, vain and judgmental.
In my closest town, i walked down the street in normal clothes, a military style jacket and a top hat, and no word of a lie, i actually had Food thrown at me, and people hurling abuse at me. My college lessons are rubbish due to very egotistic and vain girls making dun of the fact that i don't brush my hair everyday day, and that, Le Gasp, my skirt is more than an inch over my butt cheeks.

Due to this, I'm often left sat on my own reading one of my many many novels, and even the people laugh at this, my moments of solitude and joy.
So yes, I'd run away.
And don't even get me started on the enviroment.

[Vagabond GentleMan]

It does indeed sound like you need to relocate, Lady...a place such as that can with quickness give a collegiate youth a unwarrantedly negative and angst-ridden concept of The World through extrapolation.

There are plenty of progressive and forward-thinking University towns what have local cultures that encourage radical self-expression and rugged independence.

Find one and transfer...it is worthwhile to make sacrifices to rescue even the smallest measure of one's own self-esteem, self-worth, self-respect, and personal expression from the judgmental plebes and their robotic monkey homogeny...

[citizen_erased]

If i could, I'd run away.

I think the people of this place and time, at least where I'm from, are far too moralistic, vain and judgmental.
In my closest town, i walked down the street in normal clothes, a military style jacket and a top hat, and no word of a lie, i actually had Food thrown at me, and people hurling abuse at me. My college lessons are rubbish due to very egotistic and vain girls making dun of the fact that i don't brush my hair everyday day, and that, Le Gasp, my skirt is more than an inch over my butt cheeks.

Due to this, I'm often left sat on my own reading one of my many many novels, and even the people laugh at this, my moments of solitude and joy.
So yes, I'd run away.
And don't even get me started on the enviroment.

You should totally just come over to where I live. We have people walking around in military jackets, top hats, corsets, punk/lolita/goth/k-pop/steampunk everything joining together at my study. Sure, we get looked at funnily by other studies, but they`re mostly used to us by now so they tend to just sigh, and gossip about the most extreme ones in such a way we won`t actually notice anything, which I do rather appreciate.

Either way, I agree with Vagabond GentleMan, it really does sound like you need to relocate. Do what I did, and get out of places like that as quickly as you can. My hometown can be like yours (though no throwing of food - yet), and I made sure I could move several hours away as soon as I had graduated. In fact, I had already found a study and a room to live before I graduated, and was working insane amounts to build up some extra cash, just in case. I managed, so can you, definitely.

[Vagabond GentleMan]

Similar experiences...pre-collegiate years spent in a tiny stanky paper-mill town where I was on guard all of the time and often fighting to just be myself.  Bounced from college to college for a minute until I found THE most radical burg I'd ever seen, and settled. 
Rate of combat reduced dramatically, number of life-long friends increased in reverse proportion.
Like I done found my Home Planet.

[steamed]

Hello all,

There seems to be a certain disappointment with the modern world within the Steampunk community. Many steampunks express the desire to largely or totally remove themselves from it, be it through time travel or just fantasy. I realize that not all of those desires are completely serious - but there's a strong tone of escapism nonethless. So, what is there to escape from? Are you unhappy with the modern world? Would you run away from it if you could?

V/r,

~SO

I have dislikes of the modern world but nothing intense enough to make me want to escape it.

Fantasies of time travel I have but these are unrelated to the modernness of the world. I made a lot of mistakes and bad decisions during my younger days. Add to this, I was also the victim of several doctors who made wrong diagnoses. Sometimes I daydream of time traveling back to when the world was okay for me, and giving my younger self the lowdown on the shape of things to come. I'm not even sure if you can successfully change your past through time travel or just create an alternate world in the process, one that you would not be able to travel back to.

Having overcome all my problems and mistakes, I still do not feel acceptance in the world which is why I'm pretty much a loner. Maybe the world isn't modern enough yet?

[Ulysses Reynolds]

If i could, I'd run away.

I think the people of this place and time, at least where I'm from, are far too moralistic, vain and judgmental.
In my closest town, i walked down the street in normal clothes, a military style jacket and a top hat, and no word of a lie, i actually had Food thrown at me, and people hurling abuse at me. My college lessons are rubbish due to very egotistic and vain girls making dun of the fact that i don't brush my hair everyday day, and that, Le Gasp, my skirt is more than an inch over my butt cheeks.

Due to this, I'm often left sat on my own reading one of my many many novels, and even the people laugh at this, my moments of solitude and joy.
So yes, I'd run away.
And don't even get me started on the enviroment.

I can't offer any better advice then V.G. and citizen_erased. You should get out, becuase one day you will snap. Everyone has their breaking point and it really isn't fun to find yours.

[KABAR2]

Yes if the person or persons who broke into my house are caught
they won't string them up for the long drop (or let me)
and they will probably get a slap on the wrist......

[19th Century Space Pilot]

That's why quiet secession is so good... due to legal restrictions, your micronation can't go on the offensive, but it can be armoured to the teeth and above.

I really wish there were more people interested in doing something that is counter-cultural, and not in the same way either, as that would defeat the purpose.

It's always nice to stay within the letter of the law, though, which is why being a Munchkin is so great.

[Miss Phoebe Stallybrass]

If i could, I'd run away.

I think the people of this place and time, at least where I'm from, are far too moralistic, vain and judgmental.
In my closest town, i walked down the street in normal clothes, a military style jacket and a top hat, and no word of a lie, i actually had Food thrown at me, and people hurling abuse at me. My college lessons are rubbish due to very egotistic and vain girls making dun of the fact that i don't brush my hair everyday day, and that, Le Gasp, my skirt is more than an inch over my butt cheeks.

My dear girl, you have my sympathies.  But if the folk in your area are such yahoos that they'll throw food at you for wearing a top hat, perhaps you'd be better to save the top hat for special occasions and get another hat for everyday wear.  A tweed flat cap (for instance) would be suitably Victorian, but wouldn't draw nearly so much attention.  I know it pains one to have to bow to the tyranny of the masses even in small ways (I feel the same, I assure you) but life is often a matter of value assessments.  This price of having food thrown at you seems a bit high.

Vain and shallow girls (or boys) are a blot on the face of humanity, but how could they turn your lessons into rubbish?  Surely they can't harass you DURING class...if they do, can't you sit away from them, or in the front row, or complain to the instructor?  You/your parents are paying good money for those classes, you have a right hear them uninterrupted.  Between classes, try your best to avoid those girls - wear shoes you can move fast in, if need be.

But - and I hate to sound like an old grandmother here - you really should brush your hair every day.  Trust me on this.  I say it as a woman who at your age absolutely loathed to waste time fussing with my appearance--it's much better to go ahead and do that minimal amount of hair care, annoying as it can be at times.  You don't need to gel it or style it or whatever, just run a brush through it and get the knots out before you leave your house/dorm room each morning. 

You see, being thought unfashionable is just being eccentric; but being thought "slovenly" or "unhygenic" in today's world is like being one of the untouchable caste in old India.  It will actually mark you as slightly less than human in some peoples' eyes (even those who might otherwise appreciate your quirks) and make you vulnerable to levels of abuse verging on outright assault (and yes, I do include physical assault).  I don't excuse such horrible behavior on their part - I merely say that the benefit in time or convenience is really not worth the cost to you.  These days people associate lack of grooming with antisocial insanity (the dangerous kind, the Unibomber kind).  For good or ill, that's where our mainstream culture draws the line between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" behavior; the price of straying below that bottom line is very high indeed.

(There ARE benefits.  You can get away with a lot more eccentricity if people think of you as "harmlessly odd" rather than "dangerously crazy," and "cleanliness" is right next to "harmlessness" in the mainstream culture's eyes.)

Courage, old girl, and good luck getting out of there as soon as you can.

[Vagabond GentleMan]

Kinda cool to get advice from such different perspectives! 

Well said, Sallybrass!

I can certainly see Sallybrass's perspective, and it's certainly the best approach for some people.

But not all...being a life-long counterculturalist, I myself have never and would never take that road, though it seems a good one!

I've certainly had beer cans and so forth thrown at me from moving vehicles, regular nasty comments, physical intimidations as well as altercations, police harassment, and so forth...I've been dealing with it since the onset of Individuation.

I've worn dreadlocks, dread mohawks, dread Last-of-the-Mohican scalplocks, and all sorts of dirty-or-unkempt looking hairstyles.  I've worn ratty, stained, threadbare, punk-as-hell type clothes, etc...without actually being unhygienic, I certainly had the appearance.

But they're certainly not the Style-Symbols that make me look 'dangerous-crazy' to the degree that the tattoos on my head, ears, throat, and hands are.  Nor to the degree that the 0g bone through my nose is or facial scar is.

My argument would be that looking 'dangerous crazy' can often be intimidating enough to PREVENT being hassled...BECAUSE you look dangerous and crazy.

The balance Sallybrass defines (I'll paraphrase) as 'looking a bit straighter for the mob sucks but getting food thrown at you is too high a price' makes perfect sense, but is also of course subjective.
I would word the same scale as 'sacrificing self-expression (and thus free speech) is a price far higher than occasional suffering from the slings-and-arrows of outrageous fortune'

There's also something to be said for 'teaching people how to treat you'...
Yes, The Nail that Sticks Out Gets Hammered...but that Nail might think of BEING a Hammer when the need ariseth...I'd rather be a hammer than a nail.

'Going Straight' is an easier and gentler path than the 'Life is a Battlefield' approach, but there is an admirable strength and courage in the latter.  Not only that, but it forces one to grow stronger...>insert Nietzsche quote here<

At the same time, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the easier and gentler path.  It is safer, and involves less injury, both emotional and physical.  Furthermore, you won't burn near the bridges (socially, occupationally, etc.) that you would living life as a battlefield.

[Miss Phoebe Stallybrass]

Well, put, sir!   And I agree--it's a value judgement.  One that I made differently in my youth many times, I add, and so arrived at my current practices by honest experimentation.  For myself, I've found that I can express myself enough for my own satisfaction through "stealth" methods while "passing," at least outwardly, as a member of the larger culture (albeit one on the fringe).  It allows me access to things I enjoy having, and there's even a sort of pleasure in stealthiness, in getting my points across subtly while paying lip-service to the norm.  I've learned to choose my battles, and save my rebelliousness for crucial moments when the stakes are high enough to justify greater risk. 

But your reasoning is certainly equally valid, and I confess, if I had a more intimidating appearance (or if I'd learned any fighting skills), I might have risked more back then.

(But, er, just wanted to mention...it's Stallybrass, not "Sallybrass."  )

[Vagabond GentleMan]

(But, er, just wanted to mention...it's Stallybrass, not "Sallybrass."  )

Oh no!

Humblest apologies, Stallybrass.

>blushings and bowings<
 

[Indigo Spire]

If i could, I'd run away.

I think the people of this place and time, at least where I'm from, are far too moralistic, vain and judgmental.
In my closest town, i walked down the street in normal clothes, a military style jacket and a top hat, and no word of a lie, i actually had Food thrown at me, and people hurling abuse at me. My college lessons are rubbish due to very egotistic and vain girls making dun of the fact that i don't brush my hair everyday day, and that, Le Gasp, my skirt is more than an inch over my butt cheeks.

My dear girl, you have my sympathies.  But if the folk in your area are such yahoos that they'll throw food at you for wearing a top hat, perhaps you'd be better to save the top hat for special occasions and get another hat for everyday wear.  A tweed flat cap (for instance) would be suitably Victorian, but wouldn't draw nearly so much attention.  I know it pains one to have to bow to the tyranny of the masses even in small ways (I feel the same, I assure you) but life is often a matter of value assessments.  This price of having food thrown at you seems a bit high.

Vain and shallow girls (or boys) are a blot on the face of humanity, but how could they turn your lessons into rubbish?  Surely they can't harass you DURING class...if they do, can't you sit away from them, or in the front row, or complain to the instructor?  You/your parents are paying good money for those classes, you have a right hear them uninterrupted.  Between classes, try your best to avoid those girls - wear shoes you can move fast in, if need be.

But - and I hate to sound like an old grandmother here - you really should brush your hair every day.  Trust me on this.  I say it as a woman who at your age absolutely loathed to waste time fussing with my appearance--it's much better to go ahead and do that minimal amount of hair care, annoying as it can be at times.  You don't need to gel it or style it or whatever, just run a brush through it and get the knots out before you leave your house/dorm room each morning.  

You see, being thought unfashionable is just being eccentric; but being thought "slovenly" or "unhygenic" in today's world is like being one of the untouchable caste in old India.  It will actually mark you as slightly less than human in some peoples' eyes (even those who might otherwise appreciate your quirks) and make you vulnerable to levels of abuse verging on outright assault (and yes, I do include physical assault).  I don't excuse such horrible behavior on their part - I merely say that the benefit in time or convenience is really not worth the cost to you.  These days people associate lack of grooming with antisocial insanity (the dangerous kind, the Unibomber kind).  For good or ill, that's where our mainstream culture draws the line between "acceptable" and "unacceptable" behavior; the price of straying below that bottom line is very high indeed.

(There ARE benefits.  You can get away with a lot more eccentricity if people think of you as "harmlessly odd" rather than "dangerously crazy," and "cleanliness" is right next to "harmlessness" in the mainstream culture's eyes.)

Courage, old girl, and good luck getting out of there as soon as you can.

Exceptional advice Stallybrass!  Very well said!

[Indigo Spire]

Kinda cool to get advice from such different perspectives! 

Well said, Sallybrass!

I can certainly see Sallybrass's perspective, and it's certainly the best approach for some people.

But not all...being a life-long counterculturalist, I myself have never and would never take that road, though it seems a good one!

I've certainly had beer cans and so forth thrown at me from moving vehicles, regular nasty comments, physical intimidations as well as altercations, police harassment, and so forth...I've been dealing with it since the onset of Individuation.

I've worn dreadlocks, dread mohawks, dread Last-of-the-Mohican scalplocks, and all sorts of dirty-or-unkempt looking hairstyles.  I've worn ratty, stained, threadbare, punk-as-hell type clothes, etc...without actually being unhygienic, I certainly had the appearance.

But they're certainly not the Style-Symbols that make me look 'dangerous-crazy' to the degree that the tattoos on my head, ears, throat, and hands are.  Nor to the degree that the 0g bone through my nose is or facial scar is.

My argument would be that looking 'dangerous crazy' can often be intimidating enough to PREVENT being hassled...BECAUSE you look dangerous and crazy.

The balance Sallybrass defines (I'll paraphrase) as 'looking a bit straighter for the mob sucks but getting food thrown at you is too high a price' makes perfect sense, but is also of course subjective.
I would word the same scale as 'sacrificing self-expression (and thus free speech) is a price far higher than occasional suffering from the slings-and-arrows of outrageous fortune'

There's also something to be said for 'teaching people how to treat you'...
Yes, The Nail that Sticks Out Gets Hammered...but that Nail might think of BEING a Hammer when the need ariseth...I'd rather be a hammer than a nail.

There are individuals capable of looking counter culture AND being strong enough to stave off most - if not all harassment.   There are others that are so meek and mild that they easily become a victim.  If one lacks the ability to deflect that victim status and if said individual does not have a strong support network of friends it becomes even more difficult. 
Vagabond - you are a guy, it is a little different for you and easier to be the hammer if you will.  A sulking, dowdy, frumpy woman with unbrushed hair and an unkempt appearance is far more likely to be singled out and ridiculed than a guy with dreads and neck tattoos.
I am SURE you disagree with me, I have read several of your posts on Brassgoggles and I believe we have two very different points of view...... Which is great as variety is the spice of life right?
I'm just saying she would generally have a harder time than you would.

[Evelyn Adler]

But your reasoning is certainly equally valid, and I confess, if I had a more intimidating appearance (or if I'd learned any fighting skills), I might have risked more back then.

I would like to throw my two pence worth in here too.
My physical appearance is about as threatening as a kitten. But I have the fighting skills from several years of martials training. During that time, every single one of us came to the insight, that you don't train martial arts to be better in a fight - you train it to AVOID fights.

Or to say it in other words: if someone is harassing me, because of my appearance, I can usually just walk away from that, either making a friendly remark that takes the edge out of the situation or ignoring them and smiling to myself. It doesn't get to me at all. The knowledge, that they are actually stupid enough, to put themselves in danger unknowingly, amuses me.

If someone tries to attack me physically (has not happened for many years though), I usually get away from that too without fighting - simply because I don't react intimidated at all. If you're a big bloke and threatening a 5.3 ft woman, who then looks at you calmly and says "Ok, bring it on!" - well, the guy in question got the hint and just walked away. 

Just to make this absolutely clear: I have a very healthy respect of situations that can end in physical violence, try to avoid them whenever I can and I never wear shoes, I couldn't run in. And I don't wear my top hat when I'm alone on the tube or bus. I may get into an unpleasant situation because of it and then it may get damaged. That isn't worth it.

[ariellalphabet]

-I should probably begin by saying I have a somewhat rose-tinted view of the Victorian era-

There are some things I truly hate about the modern world, and that I'd gladly leave behind a lot of people's attitudes are the main thing. I hate how people have absolutely zero respect for other people, or even other people's things, so they'll wreck and abuse them, merely because they can (this has happened to me far too many times to mention).
 Aside from this... I'm not sure. There are a lot of things I'd want to escape, and that's slightly why I like steampunk/victoriana and whatnot, I feel more comfortable as a part of this, as opposed to being what modern society says I should be.

[Atterton]

With some of the things mentioned on here, I dont think the era is the problem. I live in Sweden now, and even though it has it's problem I don't think we have spiralling crime rates, no manners or the anti-intellectualism people from the US and UK seem to describe.

[yaghish]

The other week I've learned people were sentenced and hung in public at the market square less than a hundred years before I was born. And not in some remote, degenerated place or in circumstances of war, but in a rather peaceful, flourishing city that has a name of civilisation. And it was not uncommon killing people in public at the market square, in the middle of the Victorian age.
I'd say we must be happy not having the stench of rotten corpses in our noses whenever we approach a town that has the right to kill. Or being confronted with fresh corpses when you go out shopping.

I've also learned that the Victorians were not very nice for those who didn't belong to the upper class. How could slums have existed if anyone sane enough cared about things like minimum wages and laws for housing and hygiene? And there was slavery.
And in those times, it was not done to be different. Being jewish, homosexual, of "other colour", female, handicaped or poor could have been a huge problem if you wanted to live your life as you wanted it to be. I guess people would find reasons to hang a "steampunk" at the market square.

Am I unhappy with the modern world? Well, it's not perfect, but better than we had before.

[D.Oakes]

The other week I've learned people were sentenced and hung in public at the market square less than a hundred years before I was born. And not in some remote, degenerated place or in circumstances of war, but in a rather peaceful, flourishing city that has a name of civilisation. And it was not uncommon killing people in public at the market square, in the middle of the Victorian age.
I'd say we must be happy not having the stench of rotten corpses in our noses whenever we approach a town that has the right to kill. Or being confronted with fresh corpses when you go out shopping.

I've also learned that the Victorians were not very nice for those who didn't belong to the upper class. How could slums have existed if anyone sane enough cared about things like minimum wages and laws for housing and hygiene? And there was slavery.
And in those times, it was not done to be different. Being jewish, homosexual, of "other colour", female, handicaped or poor could have been a huge problem if you wanted to live your life as you wanted it to be. I guess people would find reasons to hang a "steampunk" at the market square.

Am I unhappy with the modern world? Well, it's not perfect, but better than we had before.

Some feel that returning to what you mentioned is not a bad idea.  (I for one consider that a strike against the Victorian era)  That said judicial reform was a hallmark of the era, even if some of the practices predating the era remained. 

On your second point, there are places in the modern "civilized" world where such things are very much alive and well.  (minimum wage is rather worthless if it is not changed to compensate with inflation)  CNN (or maybe MSNBC) in fact is doing a special report (or have done a report) on modern day slavery.  I think the greatest benefit of being a slave in the Victorian era is that people KNEW you EXISTED and people were more likely to do something about it.  Slavery today is much more of a secret business and many slaves who would have once been protected by abolitionists and law enforcement where the laws applied are often subject of hatred or imprisonment due to the lack of understanding that they are not doing their business of their own free will. 

The bravery of the early women's rights groups, abolitionists, and worker's organizations is little matched in today's world.  Without that sort of bravery it is unlikely anything will ever change. 

[Tower]

With some of the things mentioned on here, I dont think the era is the problem. I live in Sweden now, and even though it has it's problem I don't think we have spiralling crime rates, no manners or the anti-intellectualism people from the US and UK seem to describe.

Seriously, I think I would have a whole different view of the world if I lived in a scandinavian country. I have friends from there and it sounds  wonderful.  If things ever get bad enough here I am going to emigrate to Finland, I don't care how funky the language is.

[Dr. Madd]

Valancy Jane wrote:

Let's see, would I like to live in a past where

    I would not be able to vote
    My career options would would be wife/mother or old maid
    My sole value as a person would be defined by my sexuality/fertility
    I could not wear pants
    I'd have a pretty good chance of dying in childbirth and even if I did survive, it is very likely my child wouldn't
    If I had a special needs child or was special needs myself, we would be locked away in an asylum
    I could be persecuted/discriminated against for being any other religion other than Protestant Christian
    That I could not be friends with some of my closest friends because their skin color would have kept them out my social circles

Excellent.

So far, this is the best the human species can do
far as gender acceptance and equality stuff goes....

So far,
this is the best time to be a woman.

So far.

Now then, not only are women expected to be mothers to propagate the species unless we are said, in the modern world to be possessed of some weird extinction deathwish, but part of the labor force as well, and we wonder wide-eyed why children grow up to be little feral heathens.Now that's not to say that Women are not an equal of men, but women are not men. Men are not women. Equal but not interchangeable.