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Author Topic: Victorian Banknotes  (Read 15964 times)
caracoveney
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« on: August 22, 2011, 03:01:07 pm »

Hallo

I am a new member and wonder if someone could help me, please?  I am producing "Jane Eyre" for a local amateur dramatics company and need to use early Victorian banknotes.  I have found some images of ten and one pound notes (British), but cannot tell what exact dimensions they were.  Does anyone have this knowledge, please - I know that they were bigger than our present banknotes?

Also, in 1845, were the BACKS of banknotes still blank?  I have read somewhere that "full printing" of banknotes didn't take place until later that century - this implies to me that the backs of notes up to that date (I believe it was about 1858) were not printed on.  Is this correct, please?

I am aware that copying currency may not be fully approved of but have read somewhere (else!) that there is some leeway with copies of "non-current" currency.  What I hope to do is just to give an "impression" of roughly the correct currency and obviously it would not be passed off as real currency afterwards!

Many thanks if anyone is able to assist me with this.
Caracoveney
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VincentSM
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2011, 06:40:43 pm »

Hi try here :-

http://www.btinternet.com/~ianb/fiver.htm

C P Mahon , black on white, signed notes were produced from 1925 onwards to traditional design relatively unchanged since 1835 measuring 8 3/8 X 5 5/16 inches . The notes were plate printed in pairs before being cut leaving one straight edge and three deckled edges . White "fivers" were also issued from Bank branches outside of London and as such are rarer . Branch notes were issued from Bristol , Birmingham , Hull , Leeds , Liverpool , Manchester , Newcastle and Plymouth

and here :-
http://steamfashion.livejournal.com/2393884.html
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Vincent
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Argus Fairbrass
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« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2011, 11:23:19 pm »

These peeps also do some (under the box of old photos if you scroll down). Obviously I don't know how accurate they are and it doesn't appear you can enlarge the image but I believe they are full size and they seem reasonable.

http://www.literatureinminiature.co.uk/MiscellaneousIndex.htm

Edit: As this thread keeps resurrecting I'm now 100% certain everything on this linked page is miniature including the bank notes.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 07:01:28 pm by Argus Fairbrass » Logged

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caracoveney
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2011, 12:45:11 am »

FAO Argus Fairbrass and Vincent SM

Thank you so much, both of you, for your replies re. the banknotes.  Both replies have been incredibly helpful to me, and when my mind is a little clearer tomorrow (having been rehearsing the play all evening) I will decide on the best approach from the options that you have given to me - we're not doing "Gone with the Wind" but "tomorrow is another day!"

Most grateful to you both.

Caracoveney
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barb dwyer
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2011, 07:59:25 pm »

This brings up something in my head -

in 'Sherlock Holmes',
when Downey wins the fighting match-
and gives money to Watson and the ..er...
'lady of negotiable affection'-

it was this ... letter-sized document.

it looked like the props department
just raided the nearest copy machine
to make their stage money.

Was that based in any reality,
or just stage prop? (and not too good one at that?)

I wondered if there had been a time
that English(paper) currency
was really that BIG.

Anyone know?
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« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2011, 08:07:40 pm »


Yeah, early banknotes were pretty big
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« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2011, 08:20:45 pm »

I think they're still quite large now compared to American dollars, and they used to be bigger before decimalisation which I'm actually old enough to remember.

My American friend when he came over was always complaining about how slippery English notes were as he was forever losing them. They're certainly not as easy to roll up into a tube as Dollars (um...not that I've ever had cause to do that you understand) *whistles* Roll Eyes
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« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2011, 08:23:23 pm »

The film 'The Million Pound Note' is worth a look at to see a note up close, despite having £1,000,000 as the denomination the note looks very convincing. I was watching it on sky only recently
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« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2011, 08:43:32 pm »

English pound notes from 1856-1890, I believe, were quite large and printed on one side only.

This chap makes reproductions. http://steamfashion.livejournal.com/2393884.html


edited to add photo

10 notes of varying denominations and dates - $5.00.
His address is listed in the comments.



« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 08:45:39 pm by The Squire » Logged

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barb dwyer
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« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2011, 12:28:27 am »

Quote
They're certainly not as easy to roll up into a tube as Dollars (um...not that I've ever had cause to do that you understand) *whistles* Roll Eyes

 Cheesy

 Wink Me, either.

Although I've heard about it. Roll Eyes


............... ANYWAY -
thanks for posting the pic, Squire.
I wish there was something that made a sense of 'scale',
(like 5"x9" would be a good hint, LOL)

so the huge thing that Holmes folded up
and put into his pocket
was probably accurate, then.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2011, 12:31:04 am by barb dwyer » Logged
rod-on
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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2012, 10:31:10 am »

I'm still searching for Professor Otto, or anyone else who produces replicas of these Victorian banknotes.  If you know of a forger artist who sells reproductions of these notes please pm me with their details.
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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2012, 04:32:38 pm »

I'm still searching for Professor Otto, or anyone else who produces replicas of these Victorian banknotes.  If you know of a forger artist who sells reproductions of these notes please pm me with their details.

If you can access a colour laser printer, and you can find a cheap source of pure 100% cotton or cotton / wood pulp mix writing paper, then you can produce a reasonable quality "bank note" for not much more than the cost of the materials (and a little time with photoshop / GIMP).

I would imagine that if you explain carefully what you intend to do, to those who frequent some of the forums for collectors, then I would expect someone would be willing to give you correct dimensions and perhaps even a good quality scan of an appropriate note of the period. Just be sure to add the word "specimen" in plain sight, and all should be well regarding reproduction of old notes.

Just a thought...  Wink

SS
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« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2012, 04:47:41 pm »

Do check the laws wherever you are.  This flirts with forgery, and making absolutely sure that these cannot be mistaken (except at stage distances) for genuine notes is very important.  I have some old imitation coins and bills stamped "COPY" in the margins, but local ordinances may have diffrent requirements.
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« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2012, 08:14:12 pm »

(Musing) Then again, I have a pre-Revolutionary Connecticut piece of paper money which I got at a discount because it tore some time in the past and some previous owner held it together with cellotape (Note: Never use cellotape for anything beyond gift wrapping.  This is important).  It is genuine, but it looks fake.

At any rate, you want the banknotes to look plausible on stage, which as I understand it is a different art from making them look plausible in the hand.  Just possibly printing them on starched cotton will provide a good, sturdy simulacrum without any risk of appearing to be meant to deceive.
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2012, 09:10:11 pm »

English pound notes from 1856-1890, I believe, were quite large and printed on one side only.

This chap makes reproductions. http://steamfashion.livejournal.com/2393884.html


edited to add photo

10 notes of varying denominations and dates - $5.00.
His address is listed in the comments.






THIS is exactly where I was about to send you, so glad I read the thread first!
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« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2012, 09:21:15 pm »

The big fivers were still in use in my parents young days.
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« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2012, 11:41:07 pm »

I believe the idea behind bank notes were that they were literally a certificate promising gold or silver to whomever presented them.  So they would look very similar to investment certificates we have now, hence the size.
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2012, 03:27:57 am »

I've ordered some banknotes from the Bank of Britannia but I'd like to catch up with Professor Otto, his range of Victorian & Edwardian banknotes from England and Europe as well as his different types of ID look amazing.  Unfortunately he seems to be occupied elsewhere.  I'll post some pics when I my notes arrive.
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« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2012, 03:40:15 am »

This brings up something in my head -

in 'Sherlock Holmes',
when Downey wins the fighting match-
and gives money to Watson and the ..er...
'lady of negotiable affection'-

it was this ... letter-sized document.

it looked like the props department
just raided the nearest copy machine
to make their stage money.

Was that based in any reality,
or just stage prop? (and not too good one at that?)

I wondered if there had been a time
that English(paper) currency
was really that BIG.

Anyone know?




In the late 60's movie adaptation of the Broadway Stage adaptation *counts on fingers*  of Oliver Twist, the most memorable scene at the time of my childhood when I first saw the movie (at the 20th Century Fox theater in Denver...on Colfax Ave.  I think, but I really can't recall) was the part where Oliver delivers a rather thick book wrapped in a banknote (I forget just now which denomination); memorable simply because the piece of paper money was so honkin' BIG they were abe to completely wrap the book in it...
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« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2012, 09:42:24 am »

My question is, if it is a play, does it really matter?  Are the bank notes so important?  During recreation I suppose but for something so remote as a play, does it have a bearing on the time?  I suppose it depends on your audience, of course...
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« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2012, 09:51:21 am »

Details wouldn't matter, but it would be important to make them approximately the correct size, and the audience could certainly tell whether the prop notes were printed on both sides, or only one.
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« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2012, 06:29:27 pm »

Depending on how long they're visible, how close, and what they do with them, they could be almost anything. Unless there are budding numismatists in the audience, you might be able to even get by with something silly, like Confederate banknotes (save them, the South will rise again!...Wink Still, art must be served, so on with the show...
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« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2012, 06:56:58 pm »

If I may be a little forward, there is always this option:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180936672716?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649#ht_500wt_1288

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« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2012, 12:19:04 pm »

I've got pound, five pound and ten pound notes that I've made for our local LARP, they're only printed on one side and I know it's a little late - but if you want copies, IM me and I'll email across a PDF
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« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2012, 07:19:21 pm »

English pound notes from 1856-1890, I believe, were quite large and printed on one side only.

This chap makes reproductions. http://steamfashion.livejournal.com/2393884.html


edited to add photo

10 notes of varying denominations and dates - $5.00.
His address is listed in the comments.


I absolutely have to pick up some of those.
Need a bigger wallet.
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