Living conditions on an steampunk airship?

[VampirateMace]

 So… We talk about them a lot, make crews and logs for them… but what would it really be like to be stuck on one?

For a while I’ve been pondering the living conditions on a steam punk airship (pirate or otherwise). And I think we can all agree that it would not be anything like the modern passenger airplane, and I personally would assume it to probably be closer to the conditions onboard a submarine.

Now, having toured the Blueback diesel submarine a couple months back, I am in possession of fresh knowledge that those conditions might not be to most people’s likings. 

*A crew of 70-80 men, each receiving a 2 minute shower once every 2 weeks, and 78% of them smokers, add to this your dirigible’s fuel source and output.
(Admittedly I don’t know what the crew requirements are for any given airship, but let’s assume you’re going to be going into battle with, or as, pirates.)

*Food (and in the case of airship pirates, loot) stored in every conceivable spot, under the floor mats making the rooms shorter so tall people hit their heads, on the end of the beds of anyone shorter then their bunk, in the showers complicating the 2 minute shower routine because you have to take out and put back in the food.

Ladies, Gentlemen, Punks, what are your opinions on the subject?

[Ray Hexx]

Interesting thought...

I have visited the Seawolf in Galveston and the quarters are pretty tight.  I googled the Hindenburg and the following link seemed pretty informative.

http://www.airships.net/hindenburg

The crew area looked to be extremely restrictive...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I looked up the stats and the following is what I came up with...  I'm sure if you converted the passenger quarters to crew, you could most likely fit a larger complimemt.

Length: 803.8 feet
Diameter: 135.1 feet
Gas capacity: 7,062,000 cubic feet
Lift: 511,500 lbs
Cruising Speed: 125 km/h (76 MPH)
Maximum Speed: 135 km/h (84 MPH)
Main Powerplant: 4 Daimler-Benz 16-cylinder LOF 6 (DB 602) Diesels
Crew: 40 flight officers and men, 10-12 stewards and cooks
Passengers: 50 sleeping berths (1936); 72 sleeping berths (1937)
First flight: March 4, 1936
Final flight: Crashed, May 6, 1937


Hmmmmm.... convert the Hindenburg to a steampunk airship?  What if it hadn't had burned and actually had been converted to a war airship?

Be safe, Ray

[Matthias Gladstone]

It might be small inside, but it'd be nothing compared to a submarine - the great thing about airships and surface ships is that they'res always access to fresh air if it's needed - I sail on a Gaff Ketch, which is a fairly small vessel (62ft) for about a week and a half every time a few times each summer, and despite there being only aound 6'2" of headroom in the main cabin and 5'9" in the forecabin (where I sleep), it doesn't matter as you can go on deck pretty much anytime you need too, and then you're surrounded by a vast amount of space.
The main issue is getting on with your shipmates; i've never had a problem, but I can imagine it'd be a real bugger if you fell out with someone on a long voyage.
The engine room is a different matter; it can get up to around 50 degress celsius on a warm day; you can't really stand more than a couple of hours of that while stoking.
I don't think the crew would be as a large as it would be on a submarine, unless it was a very large airship - you haven't got the same sort of upthrust as you have on a ship, so you can lift less. More crew means carrying more food, water, etc, leaving less space for heavy things like gold loot. Also, smokers would most likely be out - not a very good idea to smoke on a hydrogen filled airship.
-Matt

[Just call me Rob]

I'd be looking more at surface ships rather than submarines for inspiration.
Perhaps Napoleonic navy if you're thinking of airships with lots of rigging needing lots of crews, or perhaps something like the titanic or Nile cruisers were the guests have opulent rooms and the crew cramped quarters.

Cramped quarters, but plenty of fresh air and open skies.

Although, open skies means you're open to the weather.
It could get cold and wet. Long term storms might make the decks unsafe and people would huddle below.
Cargo would need to be spread evenly to keep the airship trim.

Problems with rats and mice maybe?

If the airship were over land there could be options of landing for provisions or walking around for a few hours in an evening – I guess it would depend on the capacities of the airship.
Over the ocean on a calm day the airship could drop down low and the crew could have a swim perhaps?

Perhaps there could be some sort of guttering system on the balloon to catch fresh rainwater for storage or showers when it's raining.

[bicyclebuilder]

I guess the quarters would look a lot like camping gear.
To reduce weight, balsa wood with a hard wood veneer furniture and storage boxes.
To use all the energy made by the engines, they would probably use the heat from the engine to heat up the quarters. To distribute the air they used canvas airducts, allowing the air to graduatly escape into the hallway and quarters. The air intake for this would be a upside down tuba-duct (like the ones you see on ships), close to the main propellor.
Food: Dry foods and lots of rice (I get to that later), nothing canned (the cans are to heavy), alcohol is lighter than water so all beaverages are alcoholic.  The water needed is collected on the surface of the dirigible (condence water). To reduce water the crue has to wash with a damp washing cloth with alcoholic soap.
Rice have the tendency to ehrm... harden your excrement. Therefor no TP needed. Toilets are a hole in the floor, straight down to earth.

[The Traveller]

alcohol is lighter than water so all beaverages are alcoholic.

I don't think it's possible to survive for more than a couple of weeks on a liquid intake of alcohol and no water, it usually leaves people more dehydrated than any thing else.

[Dr Fidelius]

A fictional airship has accommodations and lifting capacity limited only by the requirements of plot.  If you do it right no one will notice that it cannot work in anything like the real world.

(I recall a study of Nemo's Nautilus based upon the dimensions quoted by Verne.  I believe that after accounting for the Grand Salon, guest cabins and engine room the crew had about seven feet of hull to live in.  No reader ever calls Verne out for this, which gives me the courage to ignore pesky little details when writing fantastical fictions.)

[VampirateMace]

A fictional airship has accommodations and lifting capacity limited only by the requirements of plot.  If you do it right no one will notice that it cannot work in anything like the real world.

(I recall a study of Nemo's Nautilus based upon the dimensions quoted by Verne.  I believe that after accounting for the Grand Salon, guest cabins and engine room the crew had about seven feet of hull to live in.  No reader ever calls Verne out for this, which gives me the courage to ignore pesky little details when writing fantastical fictions.)

Acturally, I've been reading that, and was kind of thinking that there didn't seem to be enough space...


I can see how the airship might feel more like a sailing ship than a submarine in terms of space and crewmen, but depending on how high, how fast you're going, and what weather conditions you're going to be getting into, you might not want a bunch of holes (toilet and fresh air) in your ship. Fresh air's no good if you have hypothermia or can't breath.

[Captain]

These were the crew quarters on the USS Akron.  Space inside an airship might not be at a premium but weight is. 

I seem recall reading that the galley heat source was from the engine exhaust being piped through. 






USS Macon  http://connect.in.com/uss-macon/photo-gallery-more.html

While not a luxury liner, I believe that living conditions onboard an airship would generally be pretty comfortable and much preferable (at least to me) to a submarine.  Personal gear weight would be seriously limited.  Ballast water and dew collection systems (there is a LOT of dew and rain to collect on such a huge ship) would help with cooking and showers.   More dry and dehydrated foods. 

Smoking would simply be prohibited.  Smoking is simply counter to aircraft safety.  When I worked for Alaska Airlines they had a strong anti-smoker policy and treated tobacco like a police force would treat marijuana on a UA.  This sounds draconian at first but it made a wonderful work environment and made higher quality health insurance much cheaper for everyone. 

[The Abiliegh]

A fictional airship has accommodations and lifting capacity limited only by the requirements of plot.  If you do it right no one will notice that it cannot work in anything like the real world.

(I recall a study of Nemo's Nautilus based upon the dimensions quoted by Verne.  I believe that after accounting for the Grand Salon, guest cabins and engine room the crew had about seven feet of hull to live in.  No reader ever calls Verne out for this, which gives me the courage to ignore pesky little details when writing fantastical fictions.)

 I don't see it as folly to ask the questions and truly contemplate the "realities." It's only after you have a thourough understanding of fact that you can play fast and loose with your fiction. A good reader can sense whether or not an author has done their homework.

And, to top it off, most times, the initial research is just as fun as the writing!

[SashaGears]

for big airships, I always imagined them to be a bit like....Nemo's ship from the league of extraordinary gentlemen movie.

but then again, it depends, for smaller ships, I like to imagine them as more of a surface ship, and being able to dock on water if landing and etc. blah blah blah.

I wouldn't think of them as much of a submarine....

maybe a combination of the two, depending on regions and stuff.

[Atterton]

I once walked around in a replica of an airship. It actually seemed quite comfortable, with all passengers having their own room and beds. Also they did allow smoking, but only in one specifically designated room. This room also had the only lighter allowed on board. You will have weight issues, but I don´t think space would be particularly cramped.

[DrArclight]

A fictional airship has accommodations and lifting capacity limited only by the requirements of plot.  If you do it right no one will notice that it cannot work in anything like the real world.

(I recall a study of Nemo's Nautilus based upon the dimensions quoted by Verne.  I believe that after accounting for the Grand Salon, guest cabins and engine room the crew had about seven feet of hull to live in.  No reader ever calls Verne out for this, which gives me the courage to ignore pesky little details when writing fantastical fictions.)

That has a quite simple solution:  the Nautilus was a Tardis.

[Captain]

I recall the account of a smoking room on the Hindenburg: http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/sky-cruise-hindenburg.html

My suggestion is that there is no reason to waste resources on a smoking room for a working airship, just have an all non-smoking crew.  Even in a helium based airship, smoking is just an excessive and avoidable risk.  

[Matthias Gladstone]

Shall I draw up a scale general arrangement for one of my airship models? I think they're fairly representative of steampunk airships, so should give us all a rough idea of what to expect in terms of size.
Aside from the essential ship's systems, what would people expect to see on the inside in the way of rooms and equipment?

(Pic modification courtesy QOD)
-Matt

[Captain]

Shall I draw up a scale general arrangement for one of my airship models? I think they're fairly representative of steampunk airships, so should give us all a rough idea of what to expect in terms of size.
Aside from the essential ship's systems, what would people expect to see on the inside in the way of rooms and equipment?

(Pic modification courtesy QOD)
-Matt

[andrew craven]

 It can be said that our understanding of airshipping is out of date. If it wasn't for World War 2 we may have retained rigid dirigibles for commercial use. And I would imagine that they would have been improved i.e. better material, improved gases and the handling of gases etc. With this in mind, it would be in the best interests of a steampunker to go wild with their concepts of airshipping.

 To me in science fiction, the greatest dirigible would be the Super Star Destroyer in Star Wars as those ships combined dirigibles, rocket ships, sea going battleships and submarines. Of course the fantasy has been extended to outer space in a futurist science fiction aesthetic. I have seen some fantastic steampunk art works that sees the largest dirigibles in Victorian and Edwardian settings. No doubt they had luxury in mind with these concepts. It is largely to do with dimensions and the craft's capability to create comfort for its passengers. That and luxury was what The Hindenburg and The Empire State Building was all about! Though their technology was flawed.

 I have wondered in my mind how a steam powered dirigible would be with its engine on board that would weigh quite a lot. Not to mention the excesses of heat it produces. Maybe that heat could be harnessed for part of the craft's lift if it would be possible. In any case you would certainly have a constantly warm ship. But then you have the other factor of storing coals and keeping the engine with water on a voyage. But that wont stop a steampunker in their science fictional...precursing science factual world!

 These days, it has been suggested that a dirigible with an organic motabilism that produces the gases for lift will be the future of technology. This has been used by Scott Westerfeld in his Leviathen series who draws a fantastic concept but in an historical setting at a time when deisel power is becoming common place. Problem with such a craft is that it would smell a lot as it internally farts to produce its lifting gases. To descend some of this farting will have to be released from its pressurised chambers into the atmosphere and so we would have a great smelly pollution on our hands. But we do try and ignore such real time problems for our own fantastical comforts!

[Smaggers]

Oh My. What a wonderful illustration.

You could get more space out of a smaller ship if those passengers weren't around, not to mention greater range,  kick 'em off as soon as possible.

[Sgt. Glas]

alcohol is lighter than water so all beaverages are alcoholic.

I don't think it's possible to survive for more than a couple of weeks on a liquid intake of alcohol and no water, it usually leaves people more dehydrated than any thing else.

Perhaps some one should point out that when America was founded people through out the world did not drink water (there be bacteria in it) but beer even today has enough water in it to put out a fire. And if I am correct in my thought (being young and not to knowlegdeable about my acholhole yet its possible I'm not) but don't most alcoholic beverages (got it right this time) have quite a bit of water in them? Also I thought the Irish and Russian drank nothing but their respective alcoholic beverages 

[JohnOdin]

My Brother lived on a decommishoned fishing boat (thats a tale in itself) 60 foot long from bow to stern, it gave me a lot of insight on how space was utilised-and how we waste so much space in a modern house.

I think it would be more a lifestyle thing for a long term/pirate crew of a Airship, very frugal with clothes and personal possesions,
Storage...while not easy is do-able. For food well from a Airship POV, over land as well as the dried food/cerals, there could be fresh food in the shape of game or even poaching. Over water, fish and in the air, Well i've eaten pidgeon, If it came to a choice between starving or chowing down on a seagull-then I'd try the seagull (but never a Albatross). Hygene is a condideration, yes the toilet would be basic, a hole or a bucket over the side. Showering...I would look to the camping side of things, "A shower in a bag", maybe a lot of lukewarm or cold showers. Showing with rainwater or dew...And this leads me to a point that ive been pondering latley...the effect of dew and rainfall on a airship - how much weight would be added in a rainstorm?
Hammocks are great sleeping devices as they can be stored away in the day...theres a knack to sleeping in one tho.

[The Abiliegh]

Water is definitely healthier, but wine and beer can serve in a pinch. Though, I'm not certain about the claim of it being lighter. From a chemical prespective, it seems that the more complicated molecules of various alcohols would produce a heavier liquid.

Either way, I find it terribly unlikely that you would find a crew anywhere willing to take to the sky without it. That goes for smokes as well. That was a smoking time.

[The Abiliegh]

double post

[Augustus Longeye]

I think alcohol would be used when there is uncertainty over how clean the water will remain... alcohol is less likely to have nasty things in it (even weak alcohols like beer) than water... unless it is REALLY pure water (I'm talking perfectly pure) in which case you'd have nothing in it to start multiplying...
~Longeye~

[Atterton]

You could save a lot of space by having the crew sleep in hammocks, which could be removed during the day.

[JohnOdin]

It also raises the question...and maybe this is the wrong thread but what about the "evolution" of the steam engine. The motive power still coming from steam-the expansion of water into gas, but the application of this energy, just spitballing here. But maybthing things like.
Greater and more efficent gearing for drivetrains/props
Cascade systems of boilers/tanks where the energy of the heated steam is recycled,
Hotter/longer burning fuels, a super coal or a chemical reation to produce the steam.
Reduced friction/firnctionless bearings, drivetrains surrounded by a vacum to reduce drag.
And has been explored, rotaty, wankel and flat/boxer type engines.
Tanks and boilers made from alloys and cremacis.