Metalwork and smithing

[Narsil]

There are lots of options for forge construction, a side draft design is probably simplest as dealing with ash and clinker is less of a problem.

All you really need is a shallow tray with some sort or refractory lining and a pipe to blow air in.

Refractory can be as simple as a sand and clay mix or firebricks. If you do use a 'wet' refractory then it should be fired before you use the forge for the first time by bringing it slowly up to temperature, leaving for a while and allowing to cools as slowly as possible, any cracks can then be patched.

The air inlet pipe ideally needs to be reasonably chunky, something like 1-2 inch diameter, thick wall steel pipe is ideal. You really need some way to control the airflow, either a variable speed blower, a throttle of some sort or indeed both.

Size really depends on how big you want to work, about 18 inches in diameter is probably a practical minimum as a really small fire can be quite hard to manage.

You should avoid using any galvanized or otherwise plated parts since they will release toxic fumes when they get to forge temperatures. You can strip plating off if you really have to but its not usually worth the hassle. In a similar vein be very careful of reusing gas or liquid fuel bottles, even if they appear completely empty the heat generated by cutting them can liberate enough flammable vapor to cause an explosion.

Blowers are often the most tricky part to source at a sensible price, especially if you want variable speed, which is always nice. At a push a cheap hairdryer is an adequate solution although they do tend tend to have a limited life.

[Jupiter Harsh]

Thank you, Narsil 
I'll probably use a large and thick bucket lined with clay and sand.
I thought that having a blower underneath gave a more even fire, but you tell me.
For the blower I`ll be using the electric engine from an old toy of mine. Battery powered and... a lever! Still, full power or anything in between.

 I'll prob be able to get my hands on an old relative's anvil (both are old )

JH

P.S.: I hope I'll eventually (I guess in quite a long time ) make a copy of your namesake 

[HR]

I went in to smithing 20+ years ago with very similar romantic notions of making weapons and especialy swords. I soon discovered that forging a sword is one of the most boring things you can do. Add to this the amount of time and therefore fuel that it takes, and the fact that modern high carbon steels are better than any damascus type steel you will make and you end up realising that you might as well cut the main shape of the blade from stock bar and just forge the tang., I dont meane to be negative or discuorage you, but there is nothing that will but you off something quicker than being bored by it.
On a more posative note, I use a forge with hand pump belows, as Narsil said I am a historical interpreter but I find I prefer it because its quiet. The electric blowers do tend to make quite a racket and can get very warring after a full day.
I dont think your bucket will last long as a forge but try lining it with a mixture of clay and sawdust, this is what I use for my medieval fire back and it works very well. If it cracks you just gob some more on.
Also the deeper the sides of your forge are the more restricted you are on what bar you can get in and at what angle. Idealy the hart of your fire should be slightly higher than the sides of your forge hence the need for a larger forge bed so that fuel and the fire arnt at risk of falling out of the forge.
anvilfire.com is a good site for hints and tutorials especialy iforge.
Good luck 

[Jupiter Harsh]

I went in to smithing 20+ years ago with very similar romantic notions of making weapons and especialy swords. I soon discovered that forging a sword is one of the most boring things you can do. Add to this the amount of time and therefore fuel that it takes, and the fact that modern high carbon steels are better than any damascus type steel you will make and you end up realising that you might as well cut the main shape of the blade from stock bar and just forge the tang., I dont meane to be negative or discuorage you, but there is nothing that will but you off something quicker than being bored by it.
On a more posative note, I use a forge with hand pump belows, as Narsil said I am a historical interpreter but I find I prefer it because its quiet. The electric blowers do tend to make quite a racket and can get very warring after a full day.
I dont think your bucket will last long as a forge but try lining it with a mixture of clay and sawdust, this is what I use for my medieval fire back and it works very well. If it cracks you just gob some more on.
Also the deeper the sides of your forge are the more restricted you are on what bar you can get in and at what angle. Idealy the hart of your fire should be slightly higher than the sides of your forge hence the need for a larger forge bed so that fuel and the fire arnt at risk of falling out of the forge.
anvilfire.com is a good site for hints and tutorials especialy iforge.
Good luck 

Thanks HR   
I know modern steels (especially in thick sheets) are easyer, but you hav to Buy them!  With money!
Random bits of old steel and iro, on the other hand

[Narsil]

Whether you have the air coming in from the side or below is largely a matter of personal preference and what ends up being more convenient for your particular design.

In general  terms bottom draft forges are a bit more involved since you need some sort of grate to stop the fuel falling down the hole and some way of clearing out ash and clinker which will inevitably get down there.

As HR says a deeper forge isn't necessarily better, the ideal for general work is a flattish tray with just enough of a lip to keep the fuel from falling out. It is usually most convenient to have a reasonable area to spread the fuel out so that you can rake it into the fire itself as required, this is one of the ways by which you can control the size and temperature of the fire. For most jobs the really hot part needs to be little large than a fist. Also s few firebricks can be handy for controlling and containing the heat, placed on or around the core of the fire.

Controlling the fire properly take patience and practice and is one of the key skills of forging,  too hot and you waste fuel and risk burning the steel, too cool and you waste time waiting for teh work to heat up.

[Jupiter Harsh]

Right. Sunday I'll go to my uncle's house. He's got a HUGE shed (no kidding, must be at least 80 cubic meters ) full to the brim of STUFF mostly metal, including a dismantled tractor  . And an immens electric solder that spits drops of themetal you solder 3/4 feet away. I must be able to put something together 

[Jedediah Solomon]

As far as joining metals, M.I.G. is the most versatile and easiest to use for a novice and especially for the work you want to do. I would use a stick for framework on the likes ofa vehicle or trailer, because of the amount of penetration one can produce, but I use a M.I.G. for pretty much everything else.Portable welders can be purchased that can weld quite efficiently using a gasless wire that contains the shielding in the core. Practice adjusting the settings while joining different metals to find which settings work best for you. Don't feel strange taking notes for yourself, especially at first. Always read all of the instructions and safety notices, and remember to use the appropriate face shield... Brass Goggles won't protect th skin on your face from severe sunburn.  Have fun!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[Maets]

Thermodynamics is releasing a new machine that is a MIG, TIG and Stick all in one compact box and its only $999 including the MIG and stick cables.  TIG cable are extra.  Played with it a little last week at a weld expo at my local welding supply place.  Very nice, small and versatile.  I want one.

[Narsil]

Thermodynamics is releasing a new machine that is a MIG, TIG and Stick all in one compact box and its only $999 including the MIG and stick cables.  TIG cable are extra.  Played with it a little last week at a weld expo at my local welding supply place.  Very nice, small and versatile.  I want one.

Something like that would be ideal for and small workshop. The problem with choosing individual machines is that they have quite a lot of overlap so there isn't really any one 'best' solution.

As far as the individual processes are I would summarize them as follows :

Stick (MMA) :

pro
-no gas bottle rental or refill to worry about, just electrodes and electricity
-good penetration even on greasy, rusty and dirty metal
-wide range of electrodes available
-good for thick sections
-machines tend to be inexpensive to buy
-can produce some interesting artistic effects
-good for building up sections quickly for repair and resurfacing etc
-good for outside and on-site work as teh shielding is less effected by wind and teh equipment tends to be samll and easy to move around.

con
-a fair degree of practice is required for positional welds, probably harder to learn than MIG
-struggles with thin sheet
-slag cleanup and changing electrodes can slow the process down a bit, although with practice this becomes much less of an issue.
-not so good for aluminium or stainless
-it can be hard to get neat welds without a fair bit or practice

MIG (with gas shielding)

pro
-easy to learn
-convenient to use
-easy tacking and gap/hole filling
-produces fairly neat welds
-good in all positions (flat, horizontal, vertical, overhead)
-fast


con
-requires gas bottle rental (gas tend to run out at inconvenient moments), if you don;t have a nearby supplier this can be a hassle.
-prone to cold starts
-limited control of weld appearance, especially with lower end machines
-machines are relatively bulky

MIG (flux cored wire / gassless)

pro
-no gas to worry about
-good penetration

con
-wire is expensive
-welds tend not to be very pretty

TIG
 
pro
-High quality and good looking welds, in some cases welds can be virtually invisible when you know what you're doing
-excellent for thin sheet
-excellent control, especially with a foot pedal, this makes it ideal for welds with sharp changes of direction
-can weld thick to thin
-a  machine with AC/DC output can weld most metals including bronze, a DC only machine will weld anything except aluminium and magnesium alloys
-TIG machines can also do stick welding

con
-machines are relatively expensive to buy
-a bit slow compared to MIG
-takes a while to learn
-requires gas supply (usually pure argon)

OXY/Fuel

Uses bottled pure oxygen and a gaseous fuel (usually acetylene, sometimes propane or hydrogen), fuel and oxygen are mixed in a nozzle, producing a fine, high temperature flame. Filler metal comes from bare rods.

Pro
-Good control of weld puddle 
-extremely versatile, can be used for welding brazing, soldering and general heating, with additional torch can also cut ferrous metals.
-Completely self contained and quite portable (depending on bottle size)
-Basic kit is relatively cheap to buy (excluding gas).

Con
-Puts a lot of heat into the work
-Hazards associated with gas storage
-Bottle rental/refill costs
-Relatively expensive to run
-Fairly slow
-Not as economical as propane/air for general heating
-Tricky to learn

[Steelheart]

Always nice to see someone with a passion to work metal.

I was in the same place about 20 years ago. We were into making armor and weapons for medieval recreation. I did have an oxy/ acetylene torch (from Sears ), a cheap belt sander and a drill.

Thing I learned:
Don’t use plastic buckets for a water quench tank.
Even though it looks really neat, don’t wait until your steel is making like a sparkler before taking it out of the forge.
Universities are wonderful places to find old books about how to blacksmith.
Never touch a piece of steel to see if it is cooled down yet.
If a knife cracks during its final quench, say some choice words, throw it as hard as you can into the corner, and leave it there. It makes you feel better and the only way to fix the crack it a total re-forge.

I do agree with HR about swords. I made 3 swords and over 50 daggers. However, I always got a lot more satisfaction out of forging a blade than just doing stock removal. Realize that the time you put into a blade will not equal what you can sell a blade for. 

All that goes away when you get in the ‘zone’ – the rhythm and the sound of your hammer blows shaping a length of steel into an item of beauty and functionality.

[Prof Marvel]

My best advice to any aspiring metalworker is to seek out and acquire everything written by the quintiscential metalsmith Alexander Weygers - http://www.amazon.com/Complete-Modern-Blacksmith-Alexander-Weygers/dp/0898158966

Weygers was born in Java of Dutch parents, and was traditionally trained to become a ships engineer in the days of steamships.
His life is a marvel, and his books cover everything about building your shop and tools up from virtually nothing. One of his examples of a primitive working forge in Java was built from dirt and bamboo, with a rock for an anvil.

yhs
prof marvel

[robotmastern]

I too am an amateur blacksmith. I work out of a modified fire pit and use a 80 lb iron block as an anvil. And an air compressor as an air supply. While books can be helpful nothing beats trial and error and experience.

[Tower]

Alright, here is my story.

About ten years ago I too wanted to start making swords and knives. I started by trying to start up a relationship with some local blacksmiths.

This was a big mistake. For whatever reason almost every blacksmith that I have ever encountered has been against the idea of someone becoming a bladesmith.  They told me it was too expensive, they told me that I needed to spend a few years forging horseshoes before even attempting to make a blade, they told me that the best way to make a knife is to just buy some steel and grind it out. They told me I have to apprentice with someone for years or go to college. They told me you had to be born with the skill.

Basically, they did everything possible to talk me out of it.

I don't know why, maybe its something about the history of the craft but nearly every blacksmith I have ever met is an arrogant a--hole that thinks that they are the master of the craft and that you shouldn't even think about trying to do anything unless its what they tell you to. Seriously, these guys made me feel like crap for even bringing up the subject.

I'll admit, I am outright biased against blacksmiths to this day and I still run into ones over and over again where their ego is bigger than their hammer.


So I decided to ignore them.

This was my starting point and the most valuable book I've ever owned.

The complete Bladesmith by Jim Hrisoulas, its availble for less than $20 online.

It is the only place where I found a blacksmith who treated bladesmithing as the simple craft that is and not some secret ninja art passed down through the ages from master to apprentice or any such rubbish.


With that book I purchased my first piece of equipment, a three burner gas forge made By NC Tool company. It was expensive for me at the time, about $600 but well worth it and durable, I am still using it to this day.

I was able to find a used anvil for sale for another $100 and a cold chisel for another $10 and a small belt grinder that I got for free from a friend. I had a plastic bucket full of water and a tin can filled with vegetable oil for quenching and one hammer that I stole from my fathers shop.

Those where my ONLY pieces of equipment at the time. Every tool of a traditional blacksmith he can make for himself with only a heat source, a hammer and something to use as an anvil. In fact making your own tools is one of the best ways to learn the basics and saves you thousands of dollars. Forge, Hammer and Anvil, those are the only things you need to start. You can even make your own files and grinders, although those are pretty cheap compared with the effort of making them.

My first project was pair of tongs, which I made in about two hours. My SECOND project was a six inch knife forged from an old file that I use to this day.

My third project was another pair of tongs, followed by another chisel ( the only way I had to cut metal)

My fifth project was a 26" shortsword made from half of a leaf spring (one of the best metals for swords)

I next project was a cable damascus knife that I was able to sell for $300


As for welding, I had the forge to do that.  I couldn't afford an arc welder so I learned how to forge weld years before I was ever able to do it the easy way. I made several thousand dollars from selling forge welded eating utensils in my first year smithing before I ever had a modern electric welder. Forge welding is hard but its not impossible and it was the only way to weld for thousands of years, although as you'll learn if you read the book, its harder with modern steel than the wrought iron of the past.

Don't let anyone talk you out of making blades if thats what you want to do, its not magic, it doesn't take years and years of experience or someone to teach you. It just takes a good book and some effort.  Your first blades won't be fancy but if pay attention and follow instructions they can be very nice.

Remember, people where making quality swords two thousand years ago without any modern technology. The only thing that a shop full of expensive tools does is make it faster and easier.

Don't get me wrong, you have to have patience, you have to have courage and you have to be willing to study and learn the fundamentals of metallurgy but you can do it with very basic tools. I still use a hammer chisel to cut thick metal and most of my holes I punch and swage rather than using a drill press. You will be amazed at what you can do without electric tools once you learn the basics.

Remember, all bladesmiths are blacksmiths, but not all blacksmiths are bladesmiths and most metalworkers these days are neither. Don't let a fabricator tell you to buy a fancy grinder or a CNC rig when what you want to do is hammer on hot metal.


As for advice on the art itself, as a rule of thumb I find that it takes four times more time and work to build a good sword hilt than it does to make the blade. Remember that the hilt is the only part of the sword that actual transfers the power of your arm to the target and takes the most stress of any part of the sword, its the hardest part to get right and the place where your skill can really shine. Any machine can make a blade better than you could ever forge but it takes a blade smith to make a handle that will hold up and look good. Its the part of the sword where most makers try to take shortcuts and why 90% of swords out there are just wallhangers.  

Gas forges are really really nice.  In most places its much easier and cheaper to buy propane than good coal. Unlike simple blacksmithing where all need is heat, bladesmithing requires the right chemistry in your fire or you can easily ruin the properties of you alloy. You can do this with a traditional forge, rather easily if your using charcoal rather than coal but maintaing a clean coke fire is an art in itself and one that you have to learn in order to make a good knife. If you want to jump right in get a gas forge, once its adjusted properly in maintains a neutral fire that won't add any impurities to your steel or burn off you alloys.

You learn everything you need to know about forges in the complete bladesmith as well, along with instructions for building several coal fired types.

[HR]

Tower, good for you in ignoring the nay Sayers, but please don't tar us all with the same brush. Maybe its a cultural thing, the vast majority of smiths that I know here (UK) are more than willing to help and advise people that want to learn smithing, but there are some arrogant, miserable sods out there and you get them in smithing as much as anywhere else, maybe you have just been unlucky in the ones you have run into.
As far as your advice on smithing goes I think the OP could not do better than to listen and absorb it. You obviously do have a talent for smithing, its a shame that the smiths you aproached did not have the sence to see it.

[Tower]

but please don't tar us all with the same brush. Maybe its a cultural thing, the vast majority of smiths that I know here (UK) are more than willing to help and advise people that want to learn smithing, but there are some arrogant, miserable sods out there and you get them in smithing as much as anywhere else, maybe you have just been unlucky in the ones you have run into.

I don't have anything against anyone here and Its good to hear that the majority of the ones you know are helpful.

I've never been to the UK, all I know about are the ones I've met in my area mostly seemed very determined to turn me away, particularly from the bladesmithing aspect.

Around here you have mostly "artist" blacksmiths who mostly make over priced old west style decorative pieces, hinges, coat hangers, that kind of thing. They are into production and making whatever they think will sell. They want to make it as fast and as cheaply as possible. They generally think that people who want to make knives and armor are weird. Some of their stuff is really nice and a lot of it is junk for tourists.

Then you have the farriers who consider themselves the only true blacksmiths, they almost exclusively do horeshoeing and look down on the artist types, blacksmithing isn't a hobby or an art to them, its just farm work. They know their stuff but are generally not interested in making anything that doesn't go on a horse.

You have the knifemakers who almost exclusively use stock removal to make high priced art knives. They generally have a lot of equipment and send out there blades to be factory heat treated. They want you to think they know everything about everything and will go on for hours about alloys, meteoritic iron, obscure methods etc. They spend a lot of time at trade shows and all seem to know each other and tend to look down on blacksmiths as guys who just bend horeshoes. The claim to be experts on period methods but most don't even own a forge. They tend to be perfectionists when it comes to fit and finish and are not much interested in blades as functional weapons or tools but as art.

Perhaps because this is country with no tradition of sword or armor smithing its very hard to find a smith who knows much about those arts or who doesn't consider himself such an expert that he will bother to help you.

There are a ton of hobbyist smiths but most of them seem to be working hard to associate themselves with one of the three groups I mentioned and pretend to not be interested in the others.

Its not that everybody is this way, but it does seem to be the vast majority of smiths that I have encountered.

There don't seem to be many smiths who want to view smithing as just another skill that can enable you to make things you want out of metal.

I also think that part of the problem is that most of the smiths you tend to run into are trying to run a business and frankly its almost impossible to get people to pay what a hand forged item is worth. A simple sword that looks no different from a cheap chines manufactured piece can easily represent a hundred hours of work on the part of a smith. You end up working for about $3 an hour unless you can somehow convince somebody that your handmade sword is worth twenty times what a machine milled piece is worth. Since most people don't actually know much about the boring but important details you end up having to talk up your skill as a "master bladesmith" and the years of work that did before you where "allowed" to attempt your first blade.

This is why I rarely try to sell forge work anymore and mostly just make things for myself. Its not really worth it unless you are able to make a big name for yourself  or produce simple things for the mass market.

You obviously do have a talent for smithing, its a shame that the smiths you aproached did not have the sence to see it.

Well, at the time I had no talent, just an interest but thats how everybody starts out and I at least think the world needs more people who know how to smith and think that interest should be encourage in whatever shape it takes. For a lot of people their in interest in smithing starts with blades and the way I see it that is actually a very good place to start. When it comes down to it the hammer work and tools needed are really fairly simple compared to things like decorative iron railings and such.  I had made a dozen knives by the time I attempted to make my first set of hinges.

I also want to add that IF you can find a willing smith who will help you out by all means do, just don't be discouraged if you can't and regardless of the eventual styles you want to make, studying medieval designs is very useful when your starting out since its likely that you will only have access to the same tools that they did.

[robotmastern]

Btw I would be willing to answer any questions about smithing, however I am not the most experienced person out there but I do believe that anyone who wants to can become a blacksmith. But I do find that I know a bit more about metalurgy than most machinists I have encountered and even my welding instructor.
 Btw I use charcoal and wood in my forge. And I believe that a.properly forged blade will always be stronger than a blade made by stock removal

[Peacemaker]

I blacksmith as a hobby, check out www.Iforgeiron.com it's the largest community of smiths in the world.

You can learn on a lot on there and trust me you can make a forge out of anything, even a tin can.


I only have one WARNING for you and if you learn anything at all let it be this. DO NOT work with galvanized metal. All smiths know this and all smiths will teach this, it can kill you! When zinc vapor mixes with the oxygen in the air, it reacts instantly to become zinc oxide. If you inhale these fumes you can get what's called metal-fume fever. You'll feel like you have the flu. Some people try to shake it off but there have been reports of people dying from this. If you must work with galvanized metal, do it in a very well ventilated area and wear a mask.

[Tower]

Another safety note, don't stare into your forge.  Your forge can put out strong yellow and UV light in wavelengths that you can't see but that can damage your eyes. Its usually not a big deal but if for some reason you find yourself staring into the forge all day you need to get some didymium glasses. They aren't dark like welders glasses but they block harmful wavelengths and its never a bad idea to have safety glasses. I don't often wear mine but then again I usually don't stare into my forge much but when I have it all opened up and am doing something intense like pattern welding I usually throw them on.

Another overlooked hazard, wet gloves.  I almost never use gloves anyway but if you wear them and get them wet in your quench tank etc and then pick up hot metal it can turn the inside of your glove into a steamer and burn yourself worse than if you had no gloves at all. I did this once and it sucked.

[Dave Leppo]

There’s a wealth of info ONLINE:  this is one of my favorite sites.

I recommend reading everything you can repeatedly; search really hard for the answers to any questions BEFORE POSTING QUESTIONS.  You have to do the legwork, both on-line and at your library.  There aren’t any short-cuts, but you can learn much from the experience and mistakes of others.
It's not for everyone; If you want it bad enough, you can do it!



http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?act=idx

[Uncle Arthur]

Check out the forums at  iforgeiron.com if you want to get into blacksmithing. Lots of nice helpful highly experienced folks. I started forge work with an old impliment rim and the blower from an early fifties Chevy truck heater run through a battery charger to get 6 V DC. It ain't rocket science. If it were there would be Vikings on the moon now. For welders I have both stick and wire feed and am looking for a TIG rig as well. Each has it's place.

[Uncle Arthur]

I only have one WARNING for you and if you learn anything at all let it be this. DO NOT work with galvanized metal. All smiths know this and all smiths will teach this, it can kill you! When zinc vapor mixes with the oxygen in the air, it reacts instantly to become zinc oxide. If you inhale these fumes you can get what's called metal-fume fever. You'll feel like you have the flu. Some people try to shake it off but there have been reports of people dying from this. If you must work with galvanized metal, do it in a very well ventilated area and wear a mask.
[/quote]


This is probably the most important thing I have heard said .   A few years back we lost one of the true greats in modern blacksmithing due to him burning the galvanization off some pieces in a closed shop. Pawpaw knew better but was in a hurry. Dead tends to slow things even more.