Manners and decency

[Birdnest]

Missoula is almost comically polite! ("After You ... No, After You").

Well... until the Cat/Griz game anyway... in which case I regret to admit that my hometown (until recently) begins to act rather less-than-polite as well...  

Anyways, in regard to the overall thread, I haven't really noticed a pervasive rudeness in the places where I have lived, so much as a pervasive... lack of caring, I suppose.  Some places are better than others; as was mentioned by Birdnest, rural Montana tends to be very friendly    But even then, every place has got its jerks.

All bets and conventions are off during those few days when the flatlanders invade our mountain paradise.  I'll see you there ... I'll be the one with the broadsword and cannon!!!   Bring your earplugs ... this is going to be a loud one .    (for those not familiar, Missoula hosts the 'U of M', Bozeman (the flatlanders!) hosts Montana State.  It's a friendly rivalry and quite colorful.  (I don't go to the U, but my daughter does ... and is on the dance team to boot).

In the interest of dispelling the feeling as though no one gives a damn ... a quick story:

In 2000, we experienced forest fires of biblical proportions.  Entire towns were evac'd, hundreds of families, pets and farm animals were displaced.  The Red Cross had not yet arrived.  A call went out over the local radio stations at 10 am in the morning for feed for the growing population of animal refugees at the county fairgrounds and by noon another call to "stop the avalanche of hay".    The Red Cross arrived later that week to find that the community had completely assimilated everyone that had been displaced, and found themselves with nothing to do.
There was not a single burglary, no looting ... and if you were part of a fire crew, your money was of no use.
Politeness and community on an epic level!

<preach>
Even though there are places that will degrade further into rude and selfish acts when faced with trauma - there are still places that will hold the candle of candor and politeness.  We are all responsible for being those torch holders and spreading good will and lightheartedness ... and if it rubs off on only one person, then success has been had! ... Hold that door for the pushy old lady, stand back and let her push her way by ... smile and say Good Day Ma'am - some one may notice this small act and try it out for themselves.   There's no sense in having manners if you are jealous of those who don't.
</preach>

[Radella Thrushwarbler]

i find this discussion fascinating, mostly since we had this same conversation with some co-workers at lunch today.  my observations, for what it's worth...
the apple doesn't fall far from the tree- rude parents grow rude children; parents who don't expect kids to be polite and respectful often end up with kids who don't know HOW to be polite... and the cycle continues.
I do my part to be a polite, respectful lady, and hope that my common courtesy will make someone else's day.

[rovingjack]

As long as we are tossing out theories:

It occurs to me that we have two startling lacks in our current global community.

There are no more place of which there can be said "past this point there be dragons." This means that the only places the youth and even some not so young can figure to find the adventures that used to be found in colonies, or traveling west or primative lands, is to seek the edge of culture in the form of taboos and cultural norms. It's something of a cross of the hedonistic distraction from the festering unhappiness and crumbling economy; known as "wine and circuses" (romes distractions from it's building collapse) and the reimergance of wild savage lands being expressed in urban jungles (no more adventure stories of hidden and forgotten jungle lands, but the harrowing adventures of flight through concrete and glass canyons 'neath flickering street lights looking over your shoulder for predatory monsters).

There also seems to be a failing of hero figures. Whether that is caused by the medias attempt to hold wavering attentions via more flashy explosions, forcing an ever escalting need for more intensity to stand out and above the croud, ending in characters and stories that are all flash and 'power' and no valour and character; or a culture focused solely "riches and bitches" as the value of a man; or perhaps some other factor, I cannot say. I can say however that real heroes and rolemodels carry themselves better than the entitled tantrum throwing 'professional' athletes whose only claim to fame is a game they play better than I can.

About the first, I can only think that some new frontier to break new ground in, discover the mysteries of and brave the dangers of is needed.

The second however seems tantalisingly accessible. Would it be possible to cultivate a heroic figure of intellect and control. With self control and civil carriage. Could we make one or more iconic figures appeal to a wide audiance and bring a desire to emulate such individuals?

[Narsil]

As long as we are tossing out theories:

It occurs to me that we have two startling lacks in our current global community.

There are no more place of which there can be said "past this point there be dragons." This means that the only places the youth and even some not so young can figure to find the adventures that used to be found in colonies, or traveling west or primative lands, is to seek the edge of culture in the form of taboos and cultural norms. It's something of a cross of the hedonistic distraction from the festering unhappiness and crumbling economy; known as "wine and circuses" (romes distractions from it's building collapse) and the reimergance of wild savage lands being expressed in urban jungles (no more adventure stories of hidden and forgotten jungle lands, but the harrowing adventures of flight through concrete and glass canyons 'neath flickering street lights looking over your shoulder for predatory monsters).

There also seems to be a failing of hero figures. Whether that is caused by the medias attempt to hold wavering attentions via more flashy explosions, forcing an ever escalting need for more intensity to stand out and above the croud, ending in characters and stories that are all flash and 'power' and no valour and character; or a culture focused solely "riches and bitches" as the value of a man; or perhaps some other factor, I cannot say. I can say however that real heroes and rolemodels carry themselves better than the entitled tantrum throwing 'professional' athletes whose only claim to fame is a game they play better than I can.

About the first, I can only think that some new frontier to break new ground in, discover the mysteries of and brave the dangers of is needed.

The second however seems tantalisingly accessible. Would it be possible to cultivate a heroic figure of intellect and control. With self control and civil carriage. Could we make one or more iconic figures appeal to a wide audiance and bring a desire to emulate such individuals?

I think there's probably quite a lot of truth in that.

Although, personally I think that calling it a 'decline' in social fabric or moral fibre or whatever is wrong. This generation (by which I mean people currently living) has it's own set of problems and opportunities just as previous generations had theirs. We can most certainly learn from the past but just assuming that things used to be better and everything is going down hill is really avoiding the issue.

I certainly agree  that the qualities which define success are pretty messed up but they were every bit as messed up a hundred years ago, for pretty similar reasons.

As Rovingjack points out the vast majority of 'celebrities' don;t actually achieve anything meaningful, most of them have the sole claim to fame of beating other people in fairly arbitrary competitions, which are of no real  benefit to anyone. 

[Flynn MacCallister]

As for on-topic, I think this is a case of the rose-tinted rear view mirror, personally. Every age has people wailing about the degradation of society... making exactly the same complaints we hear today. Seriously, all the way back to ancient Greece and Rome, the complaints are all the same. I really don't think that people now are any different at all from how they have ever been.

Objection!
I think that the age at which the social decline happens has decreased, you see now young children smoking and wanting to do all these adult things with no sense of decency about them. Years ago I know the very young children were not like this and if they were, there were far less of them than today and thier "sins" were childish things.

I very strongly disagree with this. At eight years old, my grandfather's littlest brother and three of his friends started a fire in King's Park in Perth... because they'd nicked a packet of cigarettes and a book of matches off someone's dad, and were smoking. It wasn't the first time they'd done it. At the age of ten, my grandfather decided to take the car and managed to roll it in one of their paddocks. I will wager that anyone of that generation is able to tell the same type of stories.

Kids have always wanted to be like adults. Kids have always wanted to do risky things.

If there is any difference now, it is solely in that we hear about it more, because "moral outrage" and "decline of society" stories sell so damn well in the mass media.

[Capt. Dirigible]

It's been a staple topic of northern comedians for years...how rude it is 'down south in that London'. And you know what? They're right. My 83 year old disabled mother who lives in Bury (just outside Manchester) is always telling me how, for example,  a complete stranger pulled over in a car and offered to give her a lift because it was pouring with rain or offered to drive her to the shops and back. This isn't a neighbour it's just a kind hearted person who doesn't want to see an old woman struggle. Or how kids aged 12 and 13 offer to carry my mum's shopping for her or ask if she needs any help. These aren't cunning little bastards trying to con an old lady these are genuinely helpful kids.
 You never get that sort of thing in London unless they really are trying to rob you are rip you off.
I visit my mum and as we walk down the street complete strangers say 'good morning'. If someone you don't know in London smiles and says 'good morning' most people think "F*ckin' nutter!"
London is full of beligerent, rude, impatient, pushy, ignorant, selfish bastards who only look out for Number 1 and any attempt to correct their behaviour or point out their lack of respect is usually met with  a volley of verbal abuse and a 'What you gonna do about it, eh?" attitude. And these are the adults!!! Is it any wonder the kids are  awful??

There was a time when if someone came to my house (when I was a kid) and told my mum they had witnessed me doing something bad, my mum would punish me in some way and thank the person for letting her know. If you try that nowadays chances are the parent would give you a mouthful of abuse, tell you to mind your own f*ckin' business and "don't tell me how to raise my kids..my kids can do what they like".
My mum was in Tescos a few years back and a small child of about 4 or 5 was running up and down the aisles screaming at the top of it's lungs. My mum bent over and  made the classic finger to lip shhhushing sound and said "shhh..you mustn't run around in here". At which point her unmarried chav of a mum told my mum to mind her own business and bent over to the brat and said "You take no notice of the nasty lady"! You do whatever you want!!" At which the kid ran off screaming and the chav mum looked at my mum with a smug smile that clearly said "There!! That's shown you!"

If this is the attitude of the parents then I'm afraid we're all fighting a loosing battle against rude, ignorant kids.

[bicyclebuilder]

Put to many chickens in a coop and they will pick on eachother. Same goes for humans. There are just to many of us. The rudeness is less in small vilages than in the big city.
Flynn MacCallister is also right. The media nowadays is more hardend than say 50 years ago. It used to be sex sells but now it´s violence sells. The more bloody the better it seems. But is it because the media is getting more violent or because people are getting more violent?
And the big question is, how do we solve the problem??

[Angelica Needle]

My mum was in Tescos a few years back and a small child of about 4 or 5 was running up and down the aisles screaming at the top of it's lungs. My mum bent over and  made the classic finger to lip shhhushing sound and said "shhh..you mustn't run around in here". At which point her unmarried chav of a mum told my mum to mind her own business and bent over to the brat and said "You take no notice of the nasty lady"! You do whatever you want!!" At which the kid ran off screaming and the chav mum looked at my mum with a smug smile that clearly said "There!! That's shown you!"

My Mum had something similar - a child opening all the freezer doors in Sainsbury's: she told the kid "You mustn't do that" and was screamed at by the mother - "You don't tell off MY child"

I was always brought up to worry about what other people thought of me. My parents commented that they were always quite proud that, while my brother & I fought like cats & dogs at home, we were always on our best behaviour in public. My sister-in-law is currently expecting her first, and they've asked advice from a particular set of friends on parenting because their children (my brother's goddaughters) are so perfectly behaved - we spent a weekend with them not long ago, and while they had a couple of sisterly barneys when they were getting tired, to us they were polite, well-mannered, asked to get down from the table etc.

On the other hand, I teach children who swear at you because it's normal vocabulary at home, they have no boundaries & they treat their parents as pushovers because they're always given what they want. A child was running around the village shop on Sunday, running outside & ringing the delivery bell, nearly knocked over my Mum. The lady in the shop asked her not to ring the bell again, so she went up to Grandpa (I assume), who immediately gave her the pack of Mars Bars he'd bought her. Rewarding the poor behaviour. *shrug*

Some kids you have to feel sorry for - I remember taking a teenager on a trip & he had to be told that he should bin the empty Coke can. He was really embarrassed, because he had never been told it was wrong to drop litter, & no-one had picked him up on it before.  A vicious circle of parents who don't know any better, not teaching their children & so manners are not getting passed on.

[Kelley]

any attempt to correct their behaviour or point out their lack of respect is usually met with  a volley of verbal abuse and a 'What you gonna do about it, eh?" attitude.

To be fair, it's generally considered ungentlemanly or unladylike attempt to correct someone else's "rude" behaviour. This goes back quite a ways, not simply arisen out of modern politically correct touchiness.

A gentleman is supposed to lead by example, not by correction, I suppose.

[Capt. Dirigible]

any attempt to correct their behaviour or point out their lack of respect is usually met with  a volley of verbal abuse and a 'What you gonna do about it, eh?" attitude.

To be fair, it's generally considered ungentlemanly or unladylike attempt to correct someone else's "rude" behaviour. This goes back quite a ways, not simply arisen out of modern politically correct touchiness.

A gentleman is supposed to lead by example, not by correction, I suppose.

If you don't point out their bad manners they're too bloody ignorant to  even notice anyone else's 'example'

[Legba]

Legba,
I reccommend you come for a holiday in Glasgow. You will be amazed. Although we are as bad at litter as anywhere you are likely to go, I never see dog poo on the streets. Although there is a lot of effing and blinding, to say the least, the crudest, drunkest, most loutish ned* will always thank the bus driver politely on getting off the bus. And everyone will chat kindly to the snottiest wee kid on the bus. Total strangers will hide one pound coins in the clothes of a new born baby on public transport.

There is good in them all, as well as loutishness. Keep saying good morning and eventually they wont be able to help themselves and they will respond.

* A 'ned' is a 'chav' in England and I have no idea in the USA, but is a young person with no interest in education or work, who wears mainly tracksuits and trainers and a good deal of solid gold bling. Chief interests apparently getting falling-down drunk, bad language and fighting.

Greensteam,
I will place Glasgow on my vacation list, and I very happy to hear that decency is not a lost concept!

I was reading through this thread again and have been reminded of things I've heard about people not wanting to do what is "right" because of consequences that wouldn't have happened some years ago. Men are less willing to help a child in case people think they're a paedophile. A man might be unwilling to hold open a door or give up his seat on a bus to a someone in case they see it as offensive (sexist, ageist, pregnant when she's not).
Maybe they should teach that stuff in schools. Along with grammar, which doesn't seem to be taught properly!
I'm sure I've seen Al Murray teaching lads to be gentlemen with a lady...

I understand people’s reluctance to assist others, but in my mind all I ever hear is that old quote:
” All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke

I am always reminding my son of that too. As often in this world responsibility is shifted to someone else, i.e. someone looks to be in distress and people see them and say “somebody else will help”.  In my work I do a fair amount of travel, and once I was about 45 miles north of Raleigh Durham NC when I saw two very young girls in front of a truck stop.  I stopped and asked what was the problem, and although very reluctant to answer with some coaxing the crux of the matter was that they had snuck out to meet some very much older boys (the girls were 13, and 14 the boys they were meeting were 20) there was an argument as the girls were surprised that the boys intent was not decent and the cads just put them out of the car right there! 
The girls were scared to call their parents as they were not supposed to be where they were.  I insisted on returning the children to their home, again much reluctance, but I did give them a lift (and a bit of a soap box about how dangerous it was to meet strangers of the internet) when I arrived at their home a very concerned Gentleman came out wondering what I was doing with his daughter and here friend.  I told him the tale, and he was incredibly grateful for my help. 
I suspect I am the way I am as I worked as a corrections officer for a number of years before switching professions.  I have looked at Evil, talked to it, and know it when I see it.  I know I may not make much of a dent by doing what I do, but if I do not do something, who will?

[plum phlogiston]

 Ever so slightly off topic but I have to rant...

 Am I the only one who finds those people who stand in the street canvassing for you to sponsor their charity (chosen by the company they work for, not them personally) really quite offensive? They always seem to be of a type (young and hippyish; not that young and hippyish is a bad thing, I spent a few years there once ) and they invariably leap out at you sideways while you are trying to do your shopping.  I have a few choice charities that I support both financially when I can and through voluntary work and these are very personal and dear to me. When I have time I explain this to these people but mostly I am tanking it either to or from college and am usually late.

 I had one yesterday who I, quite honestly, could have cheerfully punched (but that would have been impolite, of course).

 I was walking through the centre of the town I am in college at on my way to my train home. I was walking at a good pace and with the air of 'I'm going somewhere', not just meandering around looking for ways to spend money. Furthermore I had my rather overlarge headphones on my head which as far as I'm concerned indicates that unless I am about to spontaneously combust or my secret superpowers are required I do not wish to be disturbed.

 However, this twerp in a woolly hat not only bounded across the pavement into my path like some sort of demented crab, waving his hand around to demand I stop and pay him attention but he then proceeded to gesticulate with his hands to the side of his head that I should remove my headphones. Cheeky flipping arse.

 But then how does a person rebuff them in a snubby way without being downright rude?


 Back to topic and, I'm sorry, it's a gloat...my dear coglings had parents day last week and inbetween the dreadful handwriting and daydreaming it was commented that they are both very polite. Win!  (Though if my pair are considered polite I dread to think what they are being compared to!)

 Rant and gloat over, thank you for listening...

[Jemima Annabelle Clough]

 Ever so slightly off topic but I have to rant...

 Am I the only one who finds those people who stand in the street canvassing for you to sponsor their charity (chosen by the company they work for, not them personally) really quite offensive?

I've taken one of them to task before for chasing after and harrassing someone after she had politely declined to support their cause. We then had a vigourous debate in which they claimed the charities got more money by using those sort of tactics, and I pointed out they were pushing people to make uninformed choices about where to give their money knowing full well that they would almost certainly not cancel the direct debit later.

[bicyclebuilder]

 Ever so slightly off topic but I have to rant...

 Am I the only one who finds those people who stand in the street canvassing for you to sponsor their charity (chosen by the company they work for, not them personally) really quite offensive?

I've taken one of them to task before for chasing after and harrassing someone after she had politely declined to support their cause. We then had a vigourous debate in which they claimed the charities got more money by using those sort of tactics, and I pointed out they were pushing people to make uninformed choices about where to give their money knowing full well that they would almost certainly not cancel the direct debit later.

If I would see someone being chased and harrassed I would call the police. Sounds more like a mugging, not a charity. I principaly against giving anything to charity. Not that I'm indifferent to the causes, but because I'm never conviced the money goes to the cause. I'd rather help a neighbour who's strugling find a job than buying of my concience to a random charity.

[Jemima Annabelle Clough]

 Ever so slightly off topic but I have to rant...

 Am I the only one who finds those people who stand in the street canvassing for you to sponsor their charity (chosen by the company they work for, not them personally) really quite offensive?

I've taken one of them to task before for chasing after and harrassing someone after she had politely declined to support their cause. We then had a vigourous debate in which they claimed the charities got more money by using those sort of tactics, and I pointed out they were pushing people to make uninformed choices about where to give their money knowing full well that they would almost certainly not cancel the direct debit later.

If I would see someone being chased and harrassed I would call the police. Sounds more like a mugging, not a charity. I principaly against giving anything to charity. Not that I'm indifferent to the causes, but because I'm never conviced the money goes to the cause. I'd rather help a neighbour who's strugling find a job than buying of my concience to a random charity.

Oddly enough, they are often referred to as chuggers in the UK - charity muggers. I had heard enough to realise it wasn't an actual mugging, but had there been police around, I might have got them involved.

[Narsil]

People also don't realise that the people who stop you in the street are actually working for private marketing companies hire by the charities and they take a fairly hefty cut of the donations they collect.

I also strongly suspect that a lot of charities end up being job creation schemes for bored rich kids who fancy a bit of free travelling before they take up their hereditary jobs in a merchant bank.

[Arceye]

I have for some time avoided travelling on buses at school times, but recently I got on one, and the youngsters were all polite and calm and pleasant....except one. I thought that was good enough. I got the impression her compatriots were tolerant of her but no more.

Rude old people! Problem here. I am convinced that many old folk become rude due to the onset of Alzheimer's- experience with my Father suggests that manners are one of the first faculties to go.
The kids on the bus were a pleasant surprise, and it was not a one off. I am however finding more rude old folk- particularly elderly women who will not queue- they seem to think it their right to push in. I would expect somebody 70-80 years old to have learned manners- and if Granma doesn't have any, where are the kids going to learn manners?

[Clym Angus]

I would say that you will always get good and bad in any group. Although I will admit having been brought up with an iron rod I do find some members of the younger generation doing things that never would have entered my mind at their age.

I am of course willing to be pleasantly surprised by people but I also reserve the right to be quietly despairing of the 16 year old boob tubed, muffin topper, walking out of mac DE's at 8.30am in Welling. Then, with one smooth motion cramming a hamburger into her gob and releasing her grip on the grease proof wrapper causing it to float effortlessly to the ground. A technique in which she was obviously well practised.

It is at times like those I find my usual milk of human kindness running a little dry. Would a selective cull really be so despotic? Horrible thought of course, but I would be caught in a lie if I said I didn't not think it.

[GallowsHumor]

Kids mostly tend to be idiots, and rude idiots when they can get away with it. This is a fact that is as old as time- I am quite certain that ancient Babylonians complained about children shirking chores and neglecting their prayers, not to mention writing Conan was here on the city walls. But as annoying as that might be at times, that is simply how kids often are, and likely how they always will be, it's in their nature. We should not, however, be giving them free passes for such behavior simply because "kids will be kids." In fact, therein lies a large portion of the problem, because unless you teach them otherwise, kids will be kids and nothing else, certainly not "young adults." Simply ignoring their laziness, rudeness, and a variety of other words that end with a double S does not teach them anything- simply hoping that they will grow out of it on their own, and that everyone should just weather it until they do is preposterous. It's like expecting a puppy to house break itself- it's not just a bad idea, it's a blatantly stupid one. A child needs guidance during these years, and yes, punishment when called for. But that is something more and more lacking in this day and age- people rely on everyone else to raise their children for them, from the television to the school systems. These are not, and never will be, a replacement for proper parenting.

The biggest problem, aside from proper parental attention, with kids today is the same problem that I find with a great many of their parents- their a bunch of unappreciative loafs. These people know next to nothing about the human condition- what it is to be truly be hot and cold, to be hungry or thirsty, to fear for one's own life in an immediate fashion. These are not pleasant things, granted, but they are very important things when it comes to discovering ourselves. People are seldom enlightened by sitting on a couch or watching...whatever people bloody watch anymore. Something involving crabs more often than not, it seems like. We truly find what we are capable of when the world pushes against us, and in that darkest hour, we find something deep within ourselves that allows us to push it back. But people simply do not do this anymore, have decided that this is a price too high and a road too hard and who really needs that anyhow? And so they have become a society of door to door people- they leave the door of their climate controlled homes and step into the door of their climate controlled vehicle, drive it in utter comfort and control to their destination, and walk from that door to the door of the next climate controlled area for their needs. Repeat process as necessary to return to origin point. The most drastic thing they experience is inconvenience- oh dear me, I’m going to get a bit damp on the way to the car, or it’s rather warm out here so I had better crank up the ac, or I’m a tosh hungry so I had best pick up something in a drive through. It’s enough to drive a man to slashing tires in an attempt to simply make people experience something other than comfort and control. There is more to the human condition than that, and experiencing only the pleasant and fun end of the spectrum leads to spoiled, unappreciative, lazy, and most often rude clods who are very bad at being human beings. The Sioux medicine man Black Elk commented on how odd he found it that children in white culture remained children until they were almost twenty, as compared to how his own people were functional adults as early as fourteen or fifteen. In society today, we are lucky if they ever stop being petulant children at all- and when petulant children raise children, you get the sort that others have been talking about in this thread.

Thankfully my parents were not part of this whole cycle, and thus neither was I- I’ve spent most of my life pushing and testing and “punishing” this body and mind of mine to see what it’s worth, and the idea of living like most of these molly coddled and quite rude sorts baffles me. Of course, jokingly mentioning the times I’ve nearly frozen to death or when I fell off that cliff and was in a coma for about a week seems to equally baffle them, so I suppose we’re on equal footing there. It is sort of funny, though- my nephew was turning out to be rather like the children talked about in this thread, and by the time he was fifteen, my brother had had enough. So I took him camping with me. And by camping, you must understand, I really mean more of a wilderness survival exercise. Food ceased to be something that you could simply expect to be there for you whenever you might like it and at whatever quantity you might enjoy. The elements suddenly are not something that exist outside of a window- you are very much at their mercy, doing what you can to keep them at bay. I showed him a tree that had been marked by a bear, and informed him that his place at the top of the food chain was not so assured out there. After the first four days, he told me that he could not stand it anymore and threatened to run away in my sleep. I reminded him that he had no idea how to get back to society at that point and not enough knowledge to survive in the woods on his own, before casually explaining to him that acting like a spoiled idiot child was something that would very easily get him killed out here, that this was not the suburbs. That really seemed to strike him, and I think that it is because people in this day and age largely ignore, forget, and hide from their own mortality- death just simply isn’t something the belongs in their climate controlled paradise, and so when you shine the light on it, it shocks them. He did a great deal better after that, and when I brought him home, my brother testified that he was a very different sort of boy, and very much improved.

You can’t appreciate your food until you have not had it, can not appreciate the warmth until you’ve fought the cold, and can not appreciate life until you’ve been reminded how fragile it is. And that is a big reason why so many kids are so rude and self-serving these days- neither they nor their parents have remembered those crucial facts. That’s my opinion, at least.

[OswaldBastable]

any attempt to correct their behaviour or point out their lack of respect is usually met with  a volley of verbal abuse and a 'What you gonna do about it, eh?" attitude.

To be fair, it's generally considered ungentlemanly or unladylike attempt to correct someone else's "rude" behaviour. This goes back quite a ways, not simply arisen out of modern politically correct touchiness.

A gentleman is supposed to lead by example, not by correction, I suppose.

If you don't point out their bad manners they're too bloody ignorant to  even notice anyone else's 'example'

or they they think you're full of yourself; "think ya somfing do ya!" as I've heard some lifeforms say to people

[OswaldBastable]

Put to many chickens in a coop and they will pick on eachother. Same goes for humans. There are just to many of us. The rudeness is less in small vilages than in the big city.
Flynn MacCallister is also right. The media nowadays is more hardend than say 50 years ago. It used to be sex sells but now it´s violence sells. The more bloody the better it seems. But is it because the media is getting more violent or because people are getting more violent?
And the big question is, how do we solve the problem??

Its been said that every generation complains the younger generation are rough and uncouth but I think this has become a real problem in the past 50 years (so two and half generations roughly). More and more people just don't care; and as has been said they have no standards so don't teach there children any. You cant possibly tell someone else's children  off as you'll get a blast of verbal abuse because the precious darlings have been told they don't have to listen to anyone and that its there human right to be horrible little turds "you cant touch me I'll have you arrested, you pedo" and other such lovely turns of phrase. This leads to other things; the paranoia about children leads to perfectly decent adults being afraid of approaching a child in distress in case they get accused of trying to kidnap them or something. There was a report in this area this week that two children around six years of age had been reported to police wandering the streets around midnight and 6am; now is it just me but wouldn't think someone who saw these kids should have approached them and THEN phoned the police; not reported it but dare not approach in case they got accused of something.

There are plenty of decent young people about but there is a growing sea of unwashed scum who think the worlds owes them something

I'll get off my soap box now !

[Legba]

Kids mostly tend to be idiots, and rude idiots when they can get away with it. This is a fact that is as old as time- I am quite certain that ancient Babylonians complained about children shirking chores and neglecting their prayers, not to mention writing Conan was here on the city walls. But as annoying as that might be at times, that is simply how kids often are, and likely how they always will be, it's in their nature. We should not, however, be giving them free passes for such behavior simply because "kids will be kids." In fact, therein lies a large portion of the problem, because unless you teach them otherwise, kids will be kids and nothing else, certainly not "young adults." Simply ignoring their laziness, rudeness, and a variety of other words that end with a double S does not teach them anything- simply hoping that they will grow out of it on their own, and that everyone should just weather it until they do is preposterous. It's like expecting a puppy to house break itself- it's not just a bad idea, it's a blatantly stupid one. A child needs guidance during these years, and yes, punishment when called for. But that is something more and more lacking in this day and age- people rely on everyone else to raise their children for them, from the television to the school systems. These are not, and never will be, a replacement for proper parenting.

The biggest problem, aside from proper parental attention, with kids today is the same problem that I find with a great many of their parents- their a bunch of unappreciative loafs. These people know next to nothing about the human condition- what it is to be truly be hot and cold, to be hungry or thirsty, to fear for one's own life in an immediate fashion. These are not pleasant things, granted, but they are very important things when it comes to discovering ourselves. People are seldom enlightened by sitting on a couch or watching...whatever people bloody watch anymore. Something involving crabs more often than not, it seems like. We truly find what we are capable of when the world pushes against us, and in that darkest hour, we find something deep within ourselves that allows us to push it back. But people simply do not do this anymore, have decided that this is a price too high and a road too hard and who really needs that anyhow? And so they have become a society of door to door people- they leave the door of their climate controlled homes and step into the door of their climate controlled vehicle, drive it in utter comfort and control to their destination, and walk from that door to the door of the next climate controlled area for their needs. Repeat process as necessary to return to origin point. The most drastic thing they experience is inconvenience- oh dear me, I’m going to get a bit damp on the way to the car, or it’s rather warm out here so I had better crank up the ac, or I’m a tosh hungry so I had best pick up something in a drive through. It’s enough to drive a man to slashing tires in an attempt to simply make people experience something other than comfort and control. There is more to the human condition than that, and experiencing only the pleasant and fun end of the spectrum leads to spoiled, unappreciative, lazy, and most often rude clods who are very bad at being human beings. The Sioux medicine man Black Elk commented on how odd he found it that children in white culture remained children until they were almost twenty, as compared to how his own people were functional adults as early as fourteen or fifteen. In society today, we are lucky if they ever stop being petulant children at all- and when petulant children raise children, you get the sort that others have been talking about in this thread.

Thankfully my parents were not part of this whole cycle, and thus neither was I- I’ve spent most of my life pushing and testing and “punishing” this body and mind of mine to see what it’s worth, and the idea of living like most of these molly coddled and quite rude sorts baffles me. Of course, jokingly mentioning the times I’ve nearly frozen to death or when I fell off that cliff and was in a coma for about a week seems to equally baffle them, so I suppose we’re on equal footing there. It is sort of funny, though- my nephew was turning out to be rather like the children talked about in this thread, and by the time he was fifteen, my brother had had enough. So I took him camping with me. And by camping, you must understand, I really mean more of a wilderness survival exercise. Food ceased to be something that you could simply expect to be there for you whenever you might like it and at whatever quantity you might enjoy. The elements suddenly are not something that exist outside of a window- you are very much at their mercy, doing what you can to keep them at bay. I showed him a tree that had been marked by a bear, and informed him that his place at the top of the food chain was not so assured out there. After the first four days, he told me that he could not stand it anymore and threatened to run away in my sleep. I reminded him that he had no idea how to get back to society at that point and not enough knowledge to survive in the woods on his own, before casually explaining to him that acting like a spoiled idiot child was something that would very easily get him killed out here, that this was not the suburbs. That really seemed to strike him, and I think that it is because people in this day and age largely ignore, forget, and hide from their own mortality- death just simply isn’t something the belongs in their climate controlled paradise, and so when you shine the light on it, it shocks them. He did a great deal better after that, and when I brought him home, my brother testified that he was a very different sort of boy, and very much improved.

You can’t appreciate your food until you have not had it, can not appreciate the warmth until you’ve fought the cold, and can not appreciate life until you’ve been reminded how fragile it is. And that is a big reason why so many kids are so rude and self-serving these days- neither they nor their parents have remembered those crucial facts. That’s my opinion, at least.

Sir there is much truth in your words!
I left home at 15 to enter the world, as I knew better than my parents of course.  I had the privilege of being homeless for five years. I lived in the “Urban” wilderness and did my survival adventure there (when it got to be too much I retreated to the country as I knew it would be safer) I have been hot, cold, and hungry.  I have ran for my life, and seen that death comes quick and often for no reason.  I suspect that is why now even 15 years later I still can not waste food (evident by my increasing person!) and wake up every morning grateful for what I have, no mater how little. 
Good job also in attempting to wake up your nephew to the fact that contrary to popular belief he is not the center of the world.  You may have saved him from the other form of discipline that often finds people today, incarceration.  I always say if you choose not to correct your children sooner or later the state will, and believe me when I tell you as a former corrections officer, it is a most heinous realization for most!

[OswaldBastable]

 Ever so slightly off topic but I have to rant...

 Am I the only one who finds those people who stand in the street canvassing for you to sponsor their charity (chosen by the company they work for, not them personally) really quite offensive?

I've taken one of them to task before for chasing after and harrassing someone after she had politely declined to support their cause. We then had a vigourous debate in which they claimed the charities got more money by using those sort of tactics, and I pointed out they were pushing people to make uninformed choices about where to give their money knowing full well that they would almost certainly not cancel the direct debit later.

If I would see someone being chased and harrassed I would call the police. Sounds more like a mugging, not a charity. I principaly against giving anything to charity. Not that I'm indifferent to the causes, but because I'm never conviced the money goes to the cause. I'd rather help a neighbour who's strugling find a job than buying of my concience to a random charity.

Oddly enough, they are often referred to as chuggers in the UK - charity muggers. I had heard enough to realise it wasn't an actual mugging, but had there been police around, I might have got them involved.

Yes they drive me insane, you cant walk down any high street in .the country it seems; I particularly like the ones who purposely step into your path; I've decided I shall just walk into them in future

[LadyAsprin]

 Ever so slightly off topic but I have to rant...

 Am I the only one who finds those people who stand in the street canvassing for you to sponsor their charity (chosen by the company they work for, not them personally) really quite offensive?

I've taken one of them to task before for chasing after and harrassing someone after she had politely declined to support their cause. We then had a vigourous debate in which they claimed the charities got more money by using those sort of tactics, and I pointed out they were pushing people to make uninformed choices about where to give their money knowing full well that they would almost certainly not cancel the direct debit later.

If I would see someone being chased and harrassed I would call the police. Sounds more like a mugging, not a charity. I principaly against giving anything to charity. Not that I'm indifferent to the causes, but because I'm never conviced the money goes to the cause. I'd rather help a neighbour who's strugling find a job than buying of my concience to a random charity.

Oddly enough, they are often referred to as chuggers in the UK - charity muggers. I had heard enough to realise it wasn't an actual mugging, but had there been police around, I might have got them involved.

Yes they drive me insane, you cant walk down any high street in .the country it seems; I particularly like the ones who purposely step into your path; I've decided I shall just walk into them in future

Whats worse are the ones trying to sell you make-up.  I did once ask if they did black lipstick and I was told they did black mascara (I don't actually wear black lipstick, but just felt like annoying them).  They don't seem to understand headphones and why you might not hear them.

[Herr Döktor]

Well, Socrates was complaining of the vulgarity and rudeness of youth, so nothing new under the sun...

What gets on my wick is that so many large and vocal folk seem to assume that their basic 'Human Right' to do whatever suits them best at the time (here's where it gets tricky for the self absorbed masses to understand) somehow overrules the selfsame rights of everyone else that their actions may affect...

It seems that the masses have heard the phrase 'Human Rights' and have taken it to heart to mean that we all now live in the land of do-as-you-please, the whole attitude of 'I-don't-have-to-work, the social-pays-fer-me-fags-and-chips' right up to 'My-four-wheel-drive-is-bigger-than-your-family-car-GETOUTOFMYWAY!!!' making the polite few the target and butt of the jokes and disdain of the rest of society!

I view it as some sort of institutionalised selfishness, gone are the days of 'my little angel can be whatever he wants to be through diligent hard work and application' to be replaced with 'my little angel can do what he likes END OF.', another symptom of which is the idea of being a 'celebrity' (celebrated for what, exactly?) being the ambition of so many kids, all you have to do is be needy enough to take your top off and look good enough to be on an album cover (or have the superhuman self belief/delusion thereof) to be suddenly rich, successful and a role model for the next bunch of talent vacuums that wants something for nothing!

And the politicians are no better- always trying to score points off the opposition, once all parties worked for the good of the nation, but now it's just sniping and really bad put downs with no actual substance to back them up.

If you're lucky, I might say what I REALLY think...