Gothwerk - Steampunk crap at Party City!!!

[Xenos]

As far as I'm aware, it's a controlling interest in the stock (ala Walmart with Lowes... [49% of Lowes is owned by The Wallyworld]).  Not sure of the EXACT percentage, and my source COULD be wrong, but as she worked FOR HT, I doubt it.

If I'm incorrect, sorry for the misinformation, guilty of parroting what I heard (granted, I trust this girl with my... well, not life, but I'd let her hold my money!).

Either way, dont change the fact they're a cesspool of posers and holierthanthou preps...

[Clym Angus]

Flawed the thought that ends in the purchase and unaltered wearing of such items.
For it screams not only inability to make or adapt but also the where with all to commission true artistry.

[SolarCenturion]

Flawed the thought that ends in the purchase and unaltered wearing of such items.
For it screams not only inability to make or adapt but also the where with all to commission true artistry.

it`s easy to say that if you have skill, resources or money.  Are you saying that if I lack the skill to make something or the money to pay someone else to make it than I am somehow unworthy?

[MinistryOfTruth]

I think the overall problem is not that people are selling Steampunk stuff, but that people are selling crappy, mass-produced rip-off "Steampunk"-in-inverted-commas stuff, purely as "fancy dress", to cash in one what some corporate boss thinks is going to be the latest fashion craze.

[OswaldBastable]

I think the overall problem is not that people are selling Steampunk stuff, but that people are selling crappy, mass-produced rip-off "Steampunk"-in-inverted-commas stuff, purely as "fancy dress", to cash in one what some corporate boss thinks is going to be the latest fashion craze.

exactly, Good steampunk items for sale =  Tacky crap with cogs on = 

[Argus Fairbrass]

it`s easy to say that if you have skill, resources or money.  Are you saying that if I lack the skill to make something or the money to pay someone else to make it than I am somehow unworthy?

Sorry I still haven't quite got the hang of putting names and dates by the quotes , I'll get there.

If you haven't seen it yet I would point you to this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.greatsteampunkdebate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=85

as a good example of that debate. I'm sure there are or have been similar happening on this forum too. Though I haven't seen them yet (it is rather large).

No would be my short answer, though of course I can't speak for others. I'm not particularly a Maker either. Well I make music but y'know. I think the idea that you can't consider yourself a true Steampunk unless you can wave your Science or Engineering or Theatrical Costuming degree under some ones nose is a more than a little ridiculous personally.

But I do feel that it's important to be aware that there is an attempt going on by the Label orientated retailers. To market their idea of the Steam Punk concept and sell it to the masses.
Which is why I was drawing comparisons between the very obviously joke shop quality wares being illustrated at the start of the thread, and the example I put up later.
And let's not forget, it is actually still pretty new. It's very easy for the people who have been around from the start, and have immersed themselves in it and in many cases know lots of other people who are into it, to forget that fact. But I guarantee you that it's still almost totally unheard of in my town (current population estimated at around 200,000) and in a great many other parts of my country.
And it may not catch on as a wide spread fashion at all. (not having a defined style of music associated with it, is I would imagine, one example of it being a slightly tricky one to market to the more label oriented sub cultures)

For myself I'm certainly interested in all the above skills, and am finding this forum and other sources quite invaluable. But you know what and how much any of us can do, is down to time, talent, skill, circumstance, money brains etc etc. And that's life isn't it. Whether your worth should be judged on such things is IMHO highly debateable. Although I gather Mr Babbage had some fairly clear ideas on the subject lol  

I don't own a workshop, or have the room or cash for large amounts of power tools. And I think it would be highly unwise to ever allow me access to unstable chemicals!
I'm very tempted to buy a Dremmell however, dunno what I'll do with it though. Probably glue some gears to it and sell it on etsy for twice the price as a Steampunk Raygun! (uh oh, I hear jngling in the distance lol)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As far as who actually owns the various shops and chainstores on paper, well that's a moot point to me.
They are all as far as I can see, just part of the many tentacles of the evil Kraken of mass production and big business.

And we all know who's really behind that!

what ails ye good people? dare ye not speak his name?

NSFW (Probably)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eFd91CXfc0

Was that over the top? I can never tell.  

[Andi]

Lol.  What a silly thread that was, though to be fair I only made it through a few pages.  If you have to be able to make cool stuff that goes zing in order to be into steampunk, ya'll better kick me out of the club now.

Frankly, I think people who attempt to tell others what they are or aren't are pretentious and not worth worrying about.  I can think the gothwerks stuff is tacky and stupid, and I can even mock it (and will, with gusto), but if someone comes up to me wearing it and identifies themselves as being into steampunk, then I'm sure not going to tell them they're not.  As long as they're enjoying themselves, that's all that really matters.

As for me - I have neither the skills nor the desire to do some of the truly amazing things I've seen from folks on this board, both in terms of imagination and technical know-how.  I will instead be quite content as that wonder of Victorian society known as "The Patroness." 

[Clym Angus]

A leading question designed to force a reaction. It will not work

You are mistaken in your interpretation of my words. Sir.
And your taking this rather personally I might add. One to many "I's" in the second part of that sentence to convince me of your objectivity....

Flawed the thought that ends in the purchase and unaltered wearing of such items.
For it screams not only inability to make or adapt but also the where with all to commission true artistry.

it`s easy to say that if you have skill, resources or money.  Are you saying that if I lack the skill to make something or the money to pay someone else to make it than I am somehow unworthy?

[Dr Fidelius]

A leading question designed to force a reaction. It will not work

You are mistaken in your interpretation of my words. Sir.
And your taking this rather personally I might add. One to many "I's" in the second part of that sentence to convince me of your objectivity....

Flawed the thought that ends in the purchase and unaltered wearing of such items.
For it screams not only inability to make or adapt but also the where with all to commission true artistry.

it`s easy to say that if you have skill, resources or money.  Are you saying that if I lack the skill to make something or the money to pay someone else to make it than I am somehow unworthy?

Forgive me, Clym, but I took your statement to be unduly dismissive of those who do not have the talents, skills, or aptitude to create physical objects, or the wherewithal to pay for an approved someone else to create such for them.

I put words together, but have been know to injure myself using any tool more dangerous than a spoon.

Please, if that was not your intention, could you rephrase that statement to clarify your intent?

[Clym Angus]

Where did that come from? I didn't even slight you.
I thought it was just solar centurion who wanted to put words in my mouth.

Ok to clarify.

I think we have a falsely high view of the term "unaltered" here and that is causing the problem. Alteration can be the simplest of things. Requiring little skill and even less money. I sirs am decrying the vogue of Prêt-à-Porter. As if this steampunk idiom were in any way as easy to acquire as putting on a fancy dress outfit.

True, a real maker could ironically wear a pile of teut as a fantastic jape. But it would be a one time gag. What I'm saying is; in a truly creative subculture any creation would be celebrated. But then I am an idealist.

That said there are many people whom I consider Steampunk who wear suits and look to the casual observer fairly Joe Blow. As I have said before it is all in the mind. A will to learn, to change and to gain knowledge through which you can alter the world around you.

So what was meant was "off the shelf, unaltered, cheap, crapply built, mass produced steamjunk says as much about the attitude of the wearer as it does to denigrate efforts thus far.

This folly can of course be corrected through education. Not through snobbery and one one-upmanship (which is what I think people assumed from my original post).

[SolarCenturion]

Well, I'll refrain from further comment directed at Clym in the interest of not turning this into a flame war.  We (yes we, not just me) took your statement for something other than what you apparently meant.

So... I personally can't believe this thread has gone on for so many pages.  Yes, the coporate idiots are mass producing crap and labeling it "steampunk".  Having been around for the tail end of "Hippies" and witness to the birth of "Punk Rock" and all it's bastard children (goth, emo, "scene", whatever)... I assure you, this is not the first time big business has attempted to co-opt a counter-culture and it surely will not be the last. 

Who cares, these fads die quickly.  I haven't seen neon hairspay in a drug store for at least a decade, but then again, I haven't really looked.

The fact is, crap is crap and anyone can see it.  If someone bought all of these items and wore them, I don't think anyone, even mainstream folks, would see it as anything other than a cheap holloween costume.  Even in the 80's mainstream people could tell real Punks from the plastic ones.


No one is ever going to mistake someone who wears this stuff... for one of us.

That being said... I can't say every piece from elope or paper magic is absolute garbage.  I kind of like the green monocle with the gears on it.  And I kind of like the red rubber goggles.  But that's just me.

[Andi]

Gentlemen.



Relax and have some tea.

[rovingjack]

I think the point is really more a matter of:

You come to steampunk either because you like the style and look, or because you like the philosophy of hands on living... and you choose something that is a poor mockery of the style and have nothing by way of hands on in the work of said outfit?

Really and truely for just a bit more money than these costumes you can put something presentable and infinately better quality together.

Seriously, One used chefs coat off e-bay or a waist coat from the thrift store, one pair of tan slacks, Boot, scarf, shoulder bag, a head cover if desired (dew rag, newsboy cap, aviator cap, bowler ect.) and your are set. Goggles if you think they are needed.

Pull one of these together and connect with others in the community, learn how they do things (something as simple as how someone painted stripes on a pair of ordinary slack to get the right look for the rest of their costume, to leather and metal work) trade ideas and materials. Learn new skills find people who have or are willing to go into sharined workshop space.

Or Just keep finding cheap but quality parts from sites and stores an cultivating the look.

There is just something about a cheap square yard of pvc with glued straps and dish washing rubber gloves being passed as 'the look' to get money (far more than it's worth), while being so cheap and pathetic that they couldn't stand up to modifying and still wouldn't look right even if you could. These things will be worn once, and then go to a landfill.

They fail the look, they fail in quality, and at no point will they be useable for anything... not even as patterns or inspiration.

That just really rubs me the wrong way.

[Clym Angus]

Gentlemen.



Relax and have some tea.

And a slice of batten berg too just what the doctor ordered.I'm sorry if I came across as being a little crass there. Being misunderstood is one of my personal bugbears. <sips> Mmmm Darjeeling fantastic. 

[Dr Fidelius]

I think the point is really more a matter of:

You come to steampunk either because you like the style and look, or because you like the philosophy of hands on living... and you choose something that is a poor mockery of the style and have nothing by way of hands on in the work of said outfit?

Really and truely for just a bit more money than these costumes you can put something presentable and infinately better quality together.

[...]

That just really rubs me the wrong way.

But, these are cheap Halloween costumes being sold by a cheap party store.  They are not intended to be an accurate reflection of Steampunkocity.  They are designed to be worn once and then thrown away, just as the Firefighter or the Naughty Nurse costumes are.

This seems to have touched a nerve in our community, since this time we are the ones whose identity is being hijacked for a quick buck.  I personally think it is an overreaction -- Clowns of America, International is not threatened by the rainbow wigs and plastic shoes sold at Halloween, NASCAR is not compromised by the race-car driver costumes, and we should not be angered that we have reached the level of recognition that spawns cheap knock-offs.

I take it as confirmation that we are making a difference in the world. Finally someone has noticed us enough to try to do a spot of bandwagon jumping.  I would not have believed we constituted a bandwagon yet -- our real-world impact is still at the goat-cart stage, usually.  Good job, all.

[Rt Hon Septabarius Cogge]

And even if big business does manage the near-impossible task of getting all the fashion-conscious people all over the world to embrace "SteamPunkz" ( ) there's two things:

(1) Image how lovely it will look for a while with everyone wearing something other than jeans and sportswear (where I live in the UK, this has got to be a huge positive).
(2) It won't last more than a season or two.

Ah, there's a third:
(3) We'll be able to fill our wardrobes with the best of it, and pick up everyone else's cast-offs from charity, thrift, whatever, shops afterwards.

At least, that's my personal take on it. 
David

[Lord Wraste]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Ok, not on topic, but being originally from Portland, Or that little comic was freakin' hilarious.
(Stinkin' dirty hipsters and their entitled, bicycling ways... )

[Clym Angus]

I think the point is really more a matter of:

You come to steampunk either because you like the style and look, or because you like the philosophy of hands on living... and you choose something that is a poor mockery of the style and have nothing by way of hands on in the work of said outfit?

Really and truely for just a bit more money than these costumes you can put something presentable and infinately better quality together.

[...]

That just really rubs me the wrong way.

But, these are cheap Halloween costumes being sold by a cheap party store.  They are not intended to be an accurate reflection of Steampunkocity.  They are designed to be worn once and then thrown away, just as the Firefighter or the Naughty Nurse costumes are.

This seems to have touched a nerve in our community, since this time we are the ones whose identity is being hijacked for a quick buck.  I personally think it is an overreaction -- Clowns of America, International is not threatened by the rainbow wigs and plastic shoes sold at Halloween, NASCAR is not compromised by the race-car driver costumes, and we should not be angered that we have reached the level of recognition that spawns cheap knock-offs.

I take it as confirmation that we are making a difference in the world. Finally someone has noticed us enough to try to do a spot of bandwagon jumping.  I would not have believed we constituted a bandwagon yet -- our real-world impact is still at the goat-cart stage, usually.  Good job, all.

Good points well put. I just thought it was folly that's all. I'm certainly not going to get all militant regarding joke shop output. One lump or two?

You know, (and I'm not pointing fingers and naming any names here because this is pure intellectual navel gazing) sometimes despite my best efforts to turn a summation in the form of a tasty little sound bite, it all goes horribly horribly wrong. I blame the medium of communication personally. 

[Dr Fidelius]

No sugar for me, thank you, just a spot of milk... did you say Darjeeling?  Then straight up, please.

[Josh of Vernian Process]

I think the point is really more a matter of:

You come to steampunk either because you like the style and look, or because you like the philosophy of hands on living... and you choose something that is a poor mockery of the style and have nothing by way of hands on in the work of said outfit?

Really and truely for just a bit more money than these costumes you can put something presentable and infinately better quality together.

[...]

That just really rubs me the wrong way.

But, these are cheap Halloween costumes being sold by a cheap party store.  They are not intended to be an accurate reflection of Steampunkocity.  They are designed to be worn once and then thrown away, just as the Firefighter or the Naughty Nurse costumes are.

This seems to have touched a nerve in our community, since this time we are the ones whose identity is being hijacked for a quick buck.  I personally think it is an overreaction -- Clowns of America, International is not threatened by the rainbow wigs and plastic shoes sold at Halloween, NASCAR is not compromised by the race-car driver costumes, and we should not be angered that we have reached the level of recognition that spawns cheap knock-offs.

I take it as confirmation that we are making a difference in the world. Finally someone has noticed us enough to try to do a spot of bandwagon jumping.  I would not have believed we constituted a bandwagon yet -- our real-world impact is still at the goat-cart stage, usually.  Good job, all.

Well I think my only issue is that they actually put "It's All About the Steampunk" on the packaging. That irks me a bit.

[Clym Angus]

No sugar for me, thank you, just a spot of milk... did you say Darjeeling?  Then straight up, please.

Straight up? Stout fellow!

Well I think my only issue is that they actually put "It's All About the Steampunk" on the packaging. That irks me a bit.

Yes, that is a bit "brash".

[Argus Fairbrass]

As long as they're enjoying themselves, that's all that really matters.
 "The Patroness." 

Slightly confused by the last part Andi, so do I call you Sir or Madame?

Regardless, despite my previous vitriol I thoroughly concur with that statement. Well at my age it feels good to still be passionate about something! And yes this is nothing to get Steamed up about (ouch sorry)

Cheers all. 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[dnbsdizzy]

there were a couple articles in papers here in washington (seattle area) about steampunk being the new hot halloween costume, consequently I'm going as either a vampire flapper or an elegant werewolf, depends on how lazy I feel at the time. but i have noticed some fairly shoddy mass market steampunkish products, ah well, this too will pass

HAHAHA!!! It's finally happened. China has caught up with the rest of the world and released a line of really crappy, plastic Steampunky accessories and costumes called "Gothwerk". The sub header states: "IT'S ALL ABOUT THE STEAMPUNK".

Welcome to the commodifying of our genre!

[Andi]

As long as they're enjoying themselves, that's all that really matters.
 "The Patroness." 

Slightly confused by the last part Andi, so do I call you Sir or Madame?

I prefer "Her Grace, Lady Empress of the Land Between the Rivers" but as very few will agree to call me that, and as that does take an admittedly long time to type, Madame will suffice. 

[Aleister Crow]

There's a party city near where I work, and I stopped in yesterday. The verdict?

Cheap, mass-produced, ultimately disposable junk for cheap, mass-produced, ultimately disposable people.