Elements of Steampunk Films (distinct from the list)

[Captain Brandsson]

I wanted to create this thread away from the lists of "steampunk films" so as not to tread on the concept of opinion.  Where arts and entertainments are concerned, opinions are very important.

However, sometimes the elements of art can be discussed in fine detail.  Not as a way of quantifying or validating art, but simply as a way of identifying common thremes and exploring their impact.  This can also be entertainment in and of itself.

So, fair warning, you may be called upon to elaborate or even defend your assertion of what you consider a "steampunk film".  Not as a challenge to your opinion, but as a freindly invitation to join in the game.




There are the older, pre-naming of steampunk films.  These are usually based on the same sources that steampunk would eventually grow from in the first place.  One might even surmise that the development of steampunk was nurtured by such films.  20,000 Leagues Under the Sea with James Mason comes to mind.  Reading these fora, you can see many of us were influenced by this film at a young age, prior to our discovery of (and for some of us of a certain age and older, the naming of) steampunk.

Conversely, there are films that crop up in discussion that are more questionable.  Post-apocalyptic tales seem to be commonly dubbed "steampunk" for no obvious reason.  

Also questionable...  but far from cut-and-dried...  are Victorian-set horror movies.  Dracula? The time is right but are the themes?  Frankenstien?  It is scence fiction, but the original setting is pre-Victorian and the Universal film setting is...  muddled. 20,000 Leagues may be grandfathered in...  But what of adaptations of the Jeckyl and Hyde story?

Certainly I am not suggesting a set of "is or is not" rules, rather a disection of individual cases.
Agreeement with the consensus is not required.

[OswaldBastable]

A good choice of subject; a lot of films do seem to make it on SP film lists for the flimsiest of reasons.

One of my personal favourites is Laputa: Castle in the Sky; definitely a steampunk film to my mind.

Pseudo Victorian/Edwardian background check
Mix of advanced science/technology with 19th century style knowledge check
Great coats and impressive facial hair check

There are a lot of films that people sometimes mention that I like but wouldn’t classify as Steampunk; I think the underlying issue is a small smidgeon of a film may have SP connotations which is then grasped upon as evidence of it being a SP film while other pointers are ignored.

[Just call me Rob]

Nice topic for discussion.

I've been watching quite a few  films recently to get ideas for outfits and gadgets.

The recent Dracula film is not steampunk at all, in fact I think the directors made a point of not letting any mad scientist with elaborate workshops gets into the film – it's a Victorian Horror/Fantasy.

Mary Shelleys Frankenstein has elements of steampunk – namely in the lab where Frank is born. The mechanics and lightening receivers had a very anachronistic look, and that's steampunk – but the film as a whole isn't.
It's another Victorian Horror/Fantasy but it uses mechanics rather than magic.

The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen has a lot of SP elements. The Nautilus of course and the advanced technology of the bad guys were very steampunk, but the rest of the film elements with vampires, Dorian Grey, Tom Sawyer etc turned the whole film into a bit of mismash of ideas.

Van Helsing… Terrible vampire/werewolf film where the good guy uses mechanical gadgets.. not steampunk at all, but some nice gadgets and outfits (and girls in nice outfits.)

Stardust isn’t Steampunk at all, but the airship with the lightening catchers was fantastic, and many of the outfits were excellent. It's interesting to note that the boat has a small part in the book – and has no SP elements at all, they fish for lightening with bronze boxes on fishing lines. It was the film studio that added the SP style.

City of Ember had a post apocalyptic sp theme. Lots of old fashioned mechanics with big cogs, handmade gadgets and some good costumes.

Serenity/Firefly is a conundrum. It's sci-fi. They live on a spaceship. But it's also got some great SP themes. The guns and outfits, and some of the tech has a very mechanical look to it. It has a very anachronistic feel to it, much like steampunk, I think that's one reason why so many of us like it.

I think that many film designers take the same view as many clothes/goggle designers when trying to make a film appeal to Steampunks.
They just stick a few cogs to it.

[Capt. Dirigible]

Mary Shelleys Frankenstein has elements of steampunk – namely in the lab where Frank is born

.

By 'Frank' I assume you mean 'The Creature'?

Yes..the bringing to life of the Creature with the amniotic fluid and electric eels was pretty steampunk. Given that Mary Shelly never actually explains HOW Frankenstein brings his creation to life and it's down to  film makers to interpret this how they see fit..I think Ken Branagh did an excellent job with Frankenstein's lab and the method used. So much better than the cliched 'harnessing lightning'.

[Just call me Rob]

Yep.
In my own personal logic Frankenstein is The Creature, Dr Frankenstein is the bloke who made him.
Dr F was trying to make a child so I'm happy to assume that they had the same surname.

I'd forgotten it was eels used rather than lightning.
I haven't seen that film for ages, it's possible my memory is playing tricks and merging it with other franky films.

[Capt. Dirigible]

Yep.
In my own personal logic Frankenstein is The Creature, Dr Frankenstein is the bloke who made him.
Dr F was trying to make a child so I'm happy to assume that they had the same surname.

I'd forgotten it was eels used rather than lightning.
I haven't seen that film for ages, it's possible my memory is playing tricks and merging it with other franky films.

Well the 'creature-on-the-table-and-cranked-up-to-the-open-skylight-during-a-storm-to-harness-lightning' method has been used in a number of films and although perfectly acceptable as a means of  administering the 'spark of life' has become a tad cliched.
I think Branagh's creation process and his lab is probably (IMHO) the best lab and life-spark creating technique ever filmed.

[WickedPenguin]

The anime series Last Exile has so many excellent steampunk elements, it's rather hard to list them all. I'll give it the old college try.

* Ships-of-the-line engagements between airships using cannon as their main armament.
* All flying craft, from the frigates to the fighter-like vanships, use a fictional "fuel" - Claudia fluid - to provide a lifting force. They are essentially lighter-than-air craft, as they do not derive their lift from airfoils.
* Weaponry - such as the muskets used by the airship soldiers - powered by steam pressure.
* An enormous division between upper class and lower class societies.
* Overall manner of dress appropriate to each class.
* Use of sonar, visual observation, and early 20th-century radio-less technologies for enemy detection and weapon targeting.
* The juxtaposition of more modern technology - such as the villain's "star ships" - alongside polite society and more traditional technology.

[DreamHazard]

Yep.
In my own personal logic Frankenstein is The Creature, Dr Frankenstein is the bloke who made him.
Dr F was trying to make a child so I'm happy to assume that they had the same surname.

I'd forgotten it was eels used rather than lightning.
I haven't seen that film for ages, it's possible my memory is playing tricks and merging it with other franky films.

Well the 'creature-on-the-table-and-cranked-up-to-the-open-skylight-during-a-storm-to-harness-lightning' method has been used in a number of films and although perfectly acceptable as a means of  administering the 'spark of life' has become a tad cliched.
I think Branagh's creation process and his lab is probably (IMHO) the best lab and life-spark creating technique ever filmed.

Currently watching Young Frankenstein... may be cliche, but it's done in the funniest manner xD

[Captain Brandsson]

Probably "old news" to some, it was new to me, thought I'd share...

Disney and Steampunk

An excerpt:
"While there are steampunks who have read the original three (Jeter, Powers, and Blaylock), who watched Wild, Wild, West when it had nothing to do with Will Smith or giant steam-spiders, there are those who seem to think that steampunk is the product of the last three years of what I would call the steampunk boom years. Few steampunks read, and even fewer have read early steampunk, or proto-steampunk like Pavane or Nomad of the Time Streams, to say nothing of the handful that have actually read Verne and Wells. So I'm not too surprised when steampunks display an ignorance for the literary origins of the sub-culture. I am a bit shocked though, when people respond as they did to the steampunked Disney characters, being that Disney is a huge part of steampunk's cinematic roots.

The outrage seems to stem from the idea that this means steampunk is finally, incontrovertibly, mainstream, which stems from a gross misconception about Disney's use of steampunk. The misconception is the idea that Disney is appropriating steampunk, cashing in on something hip and cool as yet another way for the monolithic institution to cover the world in mouse-ears. My friends, Disney cannot be accused of appropriating steampunk, because Disney studios is arguably very responsible for creating what we call steampunk."

Thoughts after reading?

[Thistle]

The anime series Last Exile has so many excellent steampunk elements, it's rather hard to list them all. I'll give it the old college try.

I`ve seen this, and agree, and I do like it.

[OswaldBastable]

Probably "old news" to some, it was new to me, thought I'd share...

Disney and Steampunk

An excerpt:
"While there are steampunks who have read the original three (Jeter, Powers, and Blaylock), who watched Wild, Wild, West when it had nothing to do with Will Smith or giant steam-spiders, there are those who seem to think that steampunk is the product of the last three years of what I would call the steampunk boom years. Few steampunks read, and even fewer have read early steampunk, or proto-steampunk like Pavane or Nomad of the Time Streams, to say nothing of the handful that have actually read Verne and Wells. So I'm not too surprised when steampunks display an ignorance for the literary origins of the sub-culture. I am a bit shocked though, when people respond as they did to the steampunked Disney characters, being that Disney is a huge part of steampunk's cinematic roots.

The outrage seems to stem from the idea that this means steampunk is finally, incontrovertibly, mainstream, which stems from a gross misconception about Disney's use of steampunk. The misconception is the idea that Disney is appropriating steampunk, cashing in on something hip and cool as yet another way for the monolithic institution to cover the world in mouse-ears. My friends, Disney cannot be accused of appropriating steampunk, because Disney studios is arguably very responsible for creating what we call steampunk."

Thoughts after reading?

It does raise some interesting ideas though I disagree with its overall concept of Disney being an intrinsic part of Steampunks birth. Yes they have made film adaptions of some iconic novels but the creative ideas were not disneys but the authors; the films no doubt brought these novels to a wider or younger audience though I wasn't one of them as I had read some of the novels anyway and I've generally had a dislike of Disney going back to childhood; not that I dislike all of there films as a default position but in general my reaction to a Disney film is Meh! and an assumption of cheesiness which is usually proved correct (in my opinion).

With regards to the outrage of the assumed band wagon jumping of Disney well that's what they always do; they are a business and money making is there aim so any idea they can Disneyfy to make a film and and an endless range of amazingly overpriced tat they will do so. Essentially its a sign of SP growing presence that Disney are trying to get involved in there quaint, U rated, naff, milk the family purse strings via children type way. If stilt walking increased in popularity sooner or later Disney would have a selection of underpaid stilt-walkers at there parks and a stilt wearing character in a film.

Just a few thoughts/opinions off the top of my head; I hope it doesn't read as some sort of defensive rant as its meant as a simple analyse of the article and my thoughts on Disney activities. It doesn't really bother me that much other than a vague sense of distaste. I'll ignore it in the same way I ignore coca-cola trying to ingratiate its way into various sports (not the same thing I know but it sprang to mind) or Tv programs that I find annoying.

I'll get off my soapbox now



 

[Captain Brandsson]

I'll open by saying that I am personally neutral toward Disney (like anything else, give them money if you want... or not...  whatever) but am opting to take the "pro" side of the debate simply to prompt the discussion forward.  
Had someone responded "pro" first, I would have taken up the "con" position.

Well, much of the argument seems to be that not only did Disney "make the old new again" (by adapting Verne, for example), but that they did so on a grand and financially successful scale...  And that they did it when few others were and in some cases during times when no others were.

Essentially, in the early cases, Disney recognized a good thing when they saw it ahead of the masses and staked a bit of a claim.  
Here we are now, decades later, and a very similar style has a name and a movement with many participants who point to some of these older works as direct encouragement.
Is it wrong for Disney to think "Well, we did kind have an idea that this could be big" and offer their wares?

People seem to have a lot of baggage where Disney is concerned (positive and negative) so their presence "muddies the waters" a bit.  Normally, steampunks seem content to let eachother follow their own visions with minimal (not absent, but minimal) derision.  
If Lucasfilm (a successful company with their own history of questionable practices) put out a videogame or artbook where the "Star Wars" universe was given a steampunk make-over; the reactions would probably range from "amused" to "ecstatic" (with very few ranging from "annoyed" to "outraged").  
Yet, Disney draws anger.  

But Disney, specifically, aside...  I think what this leads to is a fundemental question regarding steampunk in the wider arts, and (in this thread) movies and the companies that make them:
"Does making money invalidate the product in some way or make it any less steampunk?"

I'd like to attempt to isolate the factors of this sort of prejudice, if we can.

[Captain Brandsson]

This is a tricky juncture.  This could easily turn into a pointless "Disney bad/good" ruckus, but Disney has been a strong player in steampunk-related concepts in film, so they are a valid topic.

To Bastable or anyone with similar feelings, I ask (for my own edification)...

If we were discussing Warner Brothers.  Let's say they made 20,000 Leagues and other such films instead of Disney...  They did make the Wild Wild West film...  and now, seeing a trend that they feel they contributed to way back when, did some cute-sey things (for right now, let us not discuss the quality of such items, just their existance) with Bugs and Daffy and Brass and Gears (perhaps even selling them from a steampunk-y storefront at a Six Flags Amusement park)...
Do you think you would feel the same distate, a lesser but similar distaste, or very little/possibly even no distaste.

[OswaldBastable]

 many participants who point to some of these older works as direct encouragement.
Is it wrong for Disney to think "Well, we did kind have an idea that this could be big" and offer their wares?
"Does making money invalidate the product in some way or make it any less steampunk?"

To my mind no of course not; just because I'm not interested doesn't they shouldn't be allowed; others may have a more extreme view but in reality they are free to make money in whatever manner they wish just as we are free to buy it or ignore it all together. I vote with my feet, if I don't like something I don't buy it/use it/ take much notice of it. Some may say that SP is an anti commercial idea but I think that we are clearly spending money on it, though we can and do choose carefully how/when we spend our money; the majority wont rush out and buy any old item with a cog stencilled on it.

People seem to have a lot of baggage where Disney is concerned (positive and negative) so their presence "muddies the waters" a bit.  Normally, steampunks seem content to let each other follow their own visions with minimal (not absent, but minimal) derision.  
If Lucasfilm (a successful company with their own history of questionable practices) put out a videogame or artbook where the "Star Wars" universe was given a steampunk make-over; the reactions would probably range from "amused" to "ecstatic" (with very few ranging from "annoyed" to "outraged").  
Yet, Disney draws anger.  

True Disney does seem one of those names that polarises opinions; Taking the word Disney out of it personally I equally ignore general cheese (that I don't like) as much as I can.

[OswaldBastable]

This is a tricky juncture.  This could easily turn into a pointless "Disney bad/good" ruckus, but Disney has been a strong player in steampunk-related concepts in film, so they are a valid topic.

To Bastable or anyone with similar feelings, I ask (for my own edification)...

If we were discussing Warner Brothers.  Let's say they made 20,000 Leagues and other such films instead of Disney...  They did make the Wild Wild West film...  and now, seeing a trend that they feel they contributed to way back when, did some cute-sey things (for right now, let us not discuss the quality of such items, just their existance) with Bugs and Daffy and Brass and Gears (perhaps even selling them from a steampunk-y storefront at a Six Flags Amusement park)...
Do you think you would feel the same distate, a lesser but similar distaste, or very little/possibly even no distaste.

Stepping away from the whole good/bad/they just sell stuff Disney idea if it was Company X (in the example Warner Brothers) then I think I'd react in much the same way. "Oh look so and so have released steam fairy the film with a matching range of lunch boxes, ummm please turn over"

Perhaps the slight hint of bias against Disney is linked to my perception at how successful they are at taking a concept, marketing  there 'stuff' and perhaps that extra dose of schmaltz the Disney name conjures up sub consciously.

[Captain Brandsson]

I appreciate the insight, thank you.

I suppose we should steer the ship back to films, now.

[Dr. Zedrich Heretic]

One thing I'd like to point out about Last Exile that I learned from a technical diagram of a Vanship that was released in Japan then translated into English, (it's saved on another hard drive that I can't access at the moment, otherwise I'd share it) is that, magic go liquid aside, Vanships are steam powered.  The diagram had a very clear and marked boiler.  The way I understand it, they generate steam to both pressurize the Claudia fluid and to circulate it through the lift engine system.

Now if only they didn't have such an obvious Art Deco style they could really be steampunk...

A note about My opinion of Disney.  I'm just not happy with the quality of movie they produce now compared with what they used to make.  The Rocketeer was made by Disney and it was a fantastic film, it captured the feel of the old 1930s adventure serials, where the bad guys were fascists and the good guys never got their hair messed up by their flight helmets.  And at the same time it presented it in a way that would almost be plausible.  Plus, you could watch it at any age, and still enjoy it.  Thats the kind of thing I miss in film making.

My personal goal is to get involved with film making, I'm already on that path with my education.  I'm idealistic, I want to inspire people, but I won't lie.  I want to make money.  I want to get paid for having a vibrant imagination.  Will I set out to make “Steampunk” films?  Probably not at first, Sci-Fi is my first love and there are some fantastic Sci-Fi stories that are just begging to be brought to life, in addition to my own ideas.

As for existing films.  There hasn't yet been a film that truly captures the essence of steampunk, in both theme and aesthetic.  Possibly because none of us have been able to really pin down what steampunk is.  Sure you can try to sum it up but because it means so many different things to so many people that you can never get an all encompassing definition.  As it stands, if a production company were to set out to make a steampunk movie, they would fail.  Some will like it, some will hate it, some will say they are just trying to “Cash in” and still others will be indifferent.  It's true that you can't please everybody, but for a film to be produced, the big wigs will want to be sure they can sell it to the majority of the target market and frankly, us steampunks are just too picky.

[OswaldBastable]

I appreciate the insight, thank you.

I suppose we should steer the ship back to films, now.

  Back to the subject in hand

Serenity has been mentioned, this is a tough one for me. First of all I love this film for itself. Looking at the evidence it does have some SP elements such as the clothing, the mixed high and low tech of the worlds on the edge (including the weapons) and the Victorian style society in some places; but does this make it steampunk?

My gut reaction is no, for me its good quality Sci-Fi with a frontier feel which accounts for the percieved Steam elements. Steampunk or not its still one of my favourate films.

[Just call me Rob]

I like Disney.

Oh, I don't like some of their marketing ploys, I don't like the overpriced merchandise, I don't like some of their films.

But I do like that they are a big company dedicated to entertainment.
They do invest quite heavily in good things.
They have bought us many films that I like.

I'm not sure about steaming Mickey Mouse – but that's what they do.
Whenever there's any new genre or theme that gets popular then Disney will dress up the mouse. He's been on snowboards and bobsleds, he been to discos and he's run marathons.. dressing up the mouse is just a bit of a laugh for them.

I would be happy if Disney decided to throw some money at a steampunk film because there's a good chance it would be a good film.
It might have a bit too much morality, perhaps not enough violence and bad language, perhaps too many plucky children and Evil Villains with British Accents^TM but it would be a good film.

[Just call me Rob]

I've touched on this before in other threads, but I'll do so again here.

The thread title is asking about 'elements of steampunk'.
I think that's key.
There are lots of films with elements of steampunk in them, but no film that is 100% steampunk.

There's no major film that all SPers can identify with and gather around.

Other genres have this, Star Wars, Star Treck, LOTR, Manga. Even historical enactors can discuss the accuracy of historical films.

On one hand, this is a Bad Thing, because I want to watch a good SP film.
Not just for ideas and inspiration, but because I want to enjoy watching it.

On the other hand it's a Good Thing, because if there was such a film no doubt it would spawn many arguments of 'You're not a real steampunk, the film didn't have cheese sandwiches and you have a cheese sandwich so you're doing it wrong and you're not a real steampunk.'
I wonder if D&D or custom larp enactors get grief of LOTR enactors for doing it wrong?

In summary… I want Disney to get the writers and directors from Pirates of the Caribbean and make them do a steampunk film.

[Capt. Dirigible]

with Bugs and Daffy and Brass and Gears (perhaps even selling them from a steampunk-y storefront at a Six Flags Amusement park)...

Speaking personally I'd always buy Warner Bros 'Loony Tunes' merchandise over Disney every time.

Warner Bros. characters are just cooler than Disney's. I'd love a steamed up Yosemite Sam in goggles or a Daffy, Bugs or Porky in Victorian styl-ee outfits.

[Captain Brandsson]

The best analogy I have for Serenity and steampunk is this:  Someone says "I'm making pizza" and their partner says "Oh, but I want cheese burgers" and the first person then says "I'll tell you what: I'm still making pizza, but rather than pepperoni I'll top it with ground beef, onion, slices of fresh tomato and I'll use jack cheese.  How about that?" and the partner responds "Good compromise". Upon eating the cheese burger pizza both remark that while you get the flavors of both pizza and cheese burger, the overall taste is still quote unique.

Serenity is a space adventure pizza with cowboys and indians toppings.  The result tastes a lot like steampunk.

[Just call me Rob]

Forget the movies, I want that pizza.

[Captain Brandsson]

Forget the movies, I want that pizza.

I know, right.

Eat it while watching a movie.

[Just call me Rob]

Well, I am going to watch The Last Airbender tonight.
I have heard it has sp elements to it.
I shall report back later.

I may also have pizza.