Carry on up the Khyber

[RoseOak]

Follow That Camel!!!!

I have a good ass, no?

[Esme Moore]

Oh, bother, I missed it! Agreed on 'Carry on up the Khyber' and 'Carry on Screaming' - definitely the best of the bunch!

[Miss Groves]

i was going through an old stack of dvd's recorded from the tv and i found i have Khyber and Cleo...guess what i'm going to be watching today....

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

The dinner party scencr in Khyber, stands up against any other dinner party scence in any movie.

[Theophilus Saxe]

The dinner party scencr in Khyber, stands up against any other dinner party scence in any movie.

Agreed! There's something so delightfully British about it!

"Oh dear! I seem to be a little plastered, ha ha!" 

[Danbury Shakes]

on returning the Fakirs head:

"A thing that that leaves them unmoved, but put the tea in the cup before the milk and they go beserk"

[Capt. Dirigible]

"That is for banning turbans on the buses!!"




For the benefit of anyone too young or too American to not get the reference..

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/9/newsid_2523000/2523691.stm

[TimeTinker]

Well we had a few deep conversations about this film (rated by the BFI as one of the top 100 films of all time albeit at number 99) over the course of our Edwardian Weekend at Crich Tramway museum these last few days.  I thought I would offer some comments and advice about acquiring the a uniform which could portray the 3rd Foot and Mouth and be of use to people interested in "serious" historical recreation too.

(Video summary of the movie here).

Heatherden Hall - Carry On Up The Khyber	DQ

The Regiment are portrayed wearing the 1902 pattern Khaki Drill Tunic. Kilt (It is not totally clear from the film but I think it is the Black Watch Weathered Tartan). What I think are WW1 pattern boots. Dress gaiters. hose and red flashes. Dress Sporran, White colonial pattern pith helmet. Slade Wallis pattern equipment.

Of course this is a fictitious outfit specifically for the film but as ever the Carry On team are remarkably historically accurate.  I think it is possible therefore to obtain an outfit which will pass as the 3rd Foot and Mouth but with a little tweaking also be useful for serious wear at historical events (e.g. Crich).

The period protrayed in the movie is the latter portion of the 19th century.  The basis of the uniform though would historically be better set in the 2nd South Africa (Boer) War, the Edwardian period of the Haldane Reforms or the Great War. (Notwithstanding the Slade Wallis equipment.) 

Basic equipment:
The khaki drill 1902 jacket can be purchased from What Price Glory for the excellent price of $48.  I have two of these and they are well worth the money.
http://www.onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=4066&bc=no

Kilts in the weathered form of the Black Watch tartan are rather expensive (c.£350).  For personal reasons I wear the Mackenzie/Seaforth's tartan.  This works well enough with the outfit and the Seaforths had a distinguished record in the 2ndSA War and during the Edwardian period.  They served in India and could easily have been an inspirational unit for the Foot and Mouth.  Modern versions of this kilt can be remarkably affordable.  This ebay seller for example does a passable 8 yard kilt for a mere £38.
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/MyTartan-Kilts

Pith Helmets:  The colonial pattern helmet is readily available (indeed many of us already have one) and they generally cost around £20-£25.  The white helmet pays homage to Zulu of course and is screen accurate for CO-UTK.  The khaki helmet is more appropriate for the Boer War.  The pith helmet worn during WW1 was the Wolseley helmet which is stylistically quite different.  The Pith helmet is not suitable for Edwardian/WW1 wear therefore so I would recommend a  Diced Glengarry hat as an alternative (approx £20-£25)

Hose - gaiters etc.   What Price Glory do have long khaki hose at $16.  http://www.onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=983&bc=no  They also have hose tops (that you wear with normal socks) at the incredible price of just $4 per pair.  http://www.onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=1052&bc=no  I have both.  The long hose are great.  The hose tops are very hard wearing but don't always accomodate meatier calves too well.

Boots can be found from WPG at $85 http://www.onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=1501&bc=no or from Replicaters at just £38.  I have two pairs of the Replicaters boots and find them to be excellent.  http://www.replicaters.com/ww1britisharmy.htm

Gaiters can be hard to come by but they do turn up from time to time on ebay priced at around £15-£30.  For sock flashes I got Lady Elsie to make mine.

All that is left is the sporran and webbing.   Dress sporrans can be very expensive indeed so I opted for a "day sporran" in service pattern. At just $25 from WPG these are a bargain.  http://www.onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=1980&bc=no

Webbing wise the 3rd Foot and Mouth wear the Zulu Wars style 1888 pattern Slade Wallis equipment.  By far the best price on this is from IMA at $125.  http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/2  This is great for the film and also suitable for the Boer War portrayal.  It is a tad pricey though so a cheaper alternative is a simple waistbelt in the form of the 1903 pattern leather belt. I have bought a number of these from different sources and the best value from a reliable source is back to WPG at $28
http://www.onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=4294&bc=no   This is ideal for walking out dress and accurate for an Edwardian portrayal.

So...

Anyone who would like to join me in portraying a detachment of the  Foot and Mouth Regiment might like to acquire boots, hose, gaiters, kilt, sporran, tunic, belt and pith helmet.  Total cost would be around £160.  Throw in a Glengarry for around £25 and you have a passable walking out dress for the Edwardian period for wearing at re-enactments.  Anyone interested or looking for further advice is welcome to message me.

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Of course Herr Doktors Space Helmet would be the perfect accompaniement for the Foot and Mouths Martian Campaign as it allows full access for certain drill instructions peculiar to them. Devils In Skirts On Mars.

You would also need a gramophone playing machine gun

[Capt. Dirigible]

That's a very helpful post Major, many thanks for that. I've been looking for a pair of white gaiters/spats to wear with the appropriate 'red diamond' pattern hose  with my kilt. I think the cheapest I've found those  style of socks at it about £75 a pair!!! Are they knitted by fairies or something? Why are they so expensive?

Also..the combination of khaki drill jacket, kilt and pith also calls to mind another  image...

Bonnie Scotland	DQ

[TimeTinker]

Glad to be of service Sir.

Stan and Ollie are wearing the Wolsely pattern pith helmet (ww1/ww2 style)

These are available from WPG at $60 http://www.onlinemilitaria.net/shopexd.asp?id=1420&bc=no
Or IMA at $45  http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/1378

Shipping from IMA is usually more though and you inevitably end up paying customs duties on their goods whilst WPG ship from Dubai and customs generally let them through unhindered.

Best value at the moment for diced hose tops and gaiters is here:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/British-Army-Surplus-Scottish-Hose-NEW-One-Size-/270582255173?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item3efff58e45
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270532898011&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I am not sure if they have a physical shop but being in Basildon they are not too far away from you and Rockula.

[Capt. Dirigible]

Ok..I definitely owe you a beer at Asylum, you star!!!! I have trawled the 'net and ebay for hours trying to find those two items at a decent price with no luck. The gaiters are evn my size!!! Thank you so much!

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Village Hats (just google them)in the UK have Wolsey Pith standard and bighead Wolsey for £24.95. The have the Zulu war for £19, and they go down to about £12 per hat if you buy the multipack of 12, ideal if you are fitting out a regiment. They have a first rate selection of pith at the moment (and are also good for Fez)

[TimeTinker]

Unfortunately Village Hats version of the Wolseley is available only in white.
http://www.hatsandcaps.co.uk/cid/NSPQW8JFLJ6GE6TNA0R9VQUYMQVJJORR/Wolseley-Pith-Helmet-P155803/

The white pith helmet of this design continues to be worn by the Royal Marines to this day but is innaccurate if portraying tropical dress 1902-1945 where khaki helmets were worn.  It may however be possible to dye the helmet. 

I have however ordered a box of white colonial pattern pith helmets which are perfect for the Foot and Mouth.  I will investigate the possibility of making khaki drill covers for them making them useful for Boer War period too.

(Interestingly though Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond wears a white Wolseley type helmet in the film distinguishing him from the regimental chaps.)

[Miss Groves]

i always wondered what the ladies usually wore, wollsey or not, someone said french version but i'm not sure anyone know?
all i remember is that they weren't white for civvy wear

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

Major, hang onto a colonial pith for me for me. I have been considering buying one and i am a sucker for a hat.

Here's a horrifying thought, you don't suppose Carry On Up The Khyber is not a historically accurate piece?

I did note that they had dressed up several pith in Khyber, Lady Ruff Diamonds for example.

[TimeTinker]

Lady Ruff-Diamond does not generally wear a pith helmet in CO-UTK and is more commonly seen in a variety of elaborately decorated straw hats.

She does however wear a white pith helmet throughout Carry On Up The Jungle.  In this case it is a civillian pattern pith helmet rather than a Wolseley or Colonial pattern.  The French style helmet is a close approximation.

Carry On Up The Jungle - UK Trailer	DQ

Both the Wolseley and French helmets look good on ladies, especially when dressed up with a silk scarf or similar for colour or to tie in with an outfit.

Carry On Up The Khyber was shot on Watkin Path (Off the A498), Plas Gwynant, Gwynedd (well the Khyber Pass part of it anyway).  They have even put up a commemorative plaque locally.  If we could get half a dozen of us suitably attired it would be an excellent outing to do a "commemorative parade" at the location.

[Miss Groves]

aha!
thank you gentlemen,
also just thought, is a pith helmet synonymous with a Topi ?

[TimeTinker]

Topi (sometimes spelt topee) is an Indian word meaning hat or cap.  It Entered english in the first few years of the 20th century (it started appearing in dictionaries from at least 1913) relating specifically to sun hats (pith helmets). As far as soldiers were concerned it was only used in reference to the Wolseley pattern which was standard issue at this time but the term can be used to relate to all sun helmets.  The army corrupted it further and pith helmets can also be referred to as "solar topes"  (pronounced toe-ps).

(The British Army with its extensive worldwide deployments has often acquired foreign words and added them to its vocabulary.  Sometimes these terms find their way into general parlance.  It is a fascinating area or study.  It can seem as though squaddies speak a different language at times though.)

[Herr Döktor]

Count me in for one, Major.

(and a pair of round wire frame spectacles, in case I fancy a Widdle)

[Esme Moore]

Oh, excellent!  I look forward to seeing a unit of you fine gentlemen in military attire!  I confess I have been pondering for a wee while the possibilities of eventually acquiring a sort of comedic pseudo-military outfit - sort of a tea-lady for the Regiment kind of thing.

[Mr Peter Harrow, Esq]

I knew I had an image of Joan Sim in a pith in my mind, Jungle is perhaps the most Steampunk after Screaming and Khyber, although of a lesser vintage I am afraid.

Oh the ladies just have to present themselves as the wives of the Khazi, now Major can you source their kit

As a rather large chap I may have trouble getting a tunic my size, if so I intend to take the position taken by Peter Butterworth. are there any ladies who need saving?

Of course one piece of kit we have forgotten is underwear, suitable for gymnastic displays etc with comedic effect. I bags Union Jack boxers. Seen some very nice ones. I did look for some with Queen Victoria on them with the tagline "we are not amused" but no one makes anything like that, pity.

[TimeTinker]

Peter asked me by PM about badges for the helmets.  Period helmet plates are usually around £60 plus and finding suitable ones can be troublesome.  This supplier does a repro shako plate which should suffice particularly if we purchase a Buffs version (3rd Regiment of Foot) thus having a generic plate bearing the number 3.

http://www.egframes.net/index.php?cPath=1_103

Price is £12 plus VAT and delivery.  Unsurprisingly I have ordered one for myself.

[Capt. Dirigible]

Carry On Up The Khyber was shot on Watkin Path (Off the A498), Plas Gwynant, Gwynedd (well the Khyber Pass part of it anyway).  They have even put up a commemorative plaque locally.  If we could get half a dozen of us suitably attired it would be an excellent outing to do a "commemorative parade" at the location.

I'd love to take part but I'm not sure The Countess would be over keen on driving all the way to Wales for what is, effectively, a photo shoot!

[TimeTinker]

Oh we would have to make a weekend of it without a doubt. Especially since it is only 13 miles from Portmeirion. (Well this is Oral Ocular so why not include some Prisoner in here?)

http://www.portmeirion-village.com/

We need to get Grum and Vampire Master in on this one since they are local(ish).